Comments on: On Dinner And Patriarchy

By: deja pseu

deja pseu — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000

For those of you with a Trader Joe’s in the neighborhood, they have several organic, free-range poultry and meat products available. Or try your local Kosher market. It may not be organic or free-range, but kashrut laws dictate how the animal must be killed, and emphasizes minimizing pain and cruelty.

I’ve really noticed a difference in switching to (mostly) organic products, especially dairy and meat. My body now reacts very negatively to the growth hormones present in most commercial non-organic dairy products. It’s like Instant PMS in a carton!

By: Twisty

Twisty — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but according to PETA, the kosher market is no guarantee of humane treatment. Read it and weep. Make sure you’re not gettin’ Rubashkin’s or Aaron’s Best Meats!

By: homossouri

homossouri — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000

It’s probably a mistake to confuse ‘organic’ and ‘free range’ with ‘cruelty free’. Unless you don’t think that killing stuff, however gently, isn’t fundamentally cruel. The logical and ethical contortions required to feel mighty fine about ingesting cadavers rival those required to believe in the naturalness of patriarchy, or the goodness of BushCo. Even if nature is all about murder and rape, we hominids, burdened as we are with conscience, have the ability - and perhaps the duty - to draw a line in the tablecloth and say “It stops with me.”

By: TeenageCatgirl

TeenageCatgirl — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000

Excellently put, Homossouri.

Personally, I’m not sure how you would go about cutting throats gently.

By: Twisty

Twisty — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000

Yes, well said, Homossouri. I absolutely appreciate the vegetarian point of view. In fact, I subscribed to it myself for many years.

But do you really see nature as all about murder and rape? I see it as quite the opposite. I spend a lot of time following wild critters around–my ranch is a wildlife preserve–and the one thing I have never seen any of’em do is exhibit gleeful bloodlust. Humans appear to have cornered that market, on this planet, at least.

By: Sunni

Sunni — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000

Thanks, Twisty, for the thoughtful post on buying organic. I am mostly vegetarian (I currently eat fish and seafood) and will probably go back to full vegetarian like I was for years before now. Regardless of my particular eating habits, however, I feel that anyone who chooses to eat meat should make all reasonable attempts to buy organic. To do otherwise is actually quite horrifying if you ponder it.

Try the falafel indeed. I just got back from East Texas (dare I say the meat eating capital of the state?) and whipped up a batch of falafel for “sandwich night” at my parents’ house. A few people did try it and pronounced it “not bad” between mouthfuls of shrink-wrapped turkey and ham, all floppy and grey. Huh. Perhaps it was the lack of tahini, which I found a dearth of at the local Krogers. (I was just impressed they had Nature’s Food Falafel mix!)

By: homossouri

homossouri — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000

No, in truth, I don’t think nature is all about murder and rape. The hyperbole was a cheez-E rhetorical device. Nature is neither all bonobo-rape, nor is it all pretty blossoms. I wager it’s six of one, half dozen of the other, like a lot of stuff.

By: Twisty

Twisty — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000

It’s definitely not all pretty blossoms. I won’t lie to you and say I don’t feel kind of horrible all over when I see a red-tailed hawk take a swoop at a baby bunny.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that although I do absolutely support and endorse ethical and cruelty-free treatment of animals, that I do not support PETA. They have a history or misogynistic and sexist ad campaigns and stunts and have shown no remorse for degrading women to promote better treatment of animals. Don’t mean to incite a war here, but when they use women’s bodies to promote their cause and attract attention, it shows me that they’re not getting the patriarchy/meat connection themselves.

By: emjaybee

emjaybee — Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000

I’m pretty sure I couldn’t make a convincing argument that carnivorousness (organic, free range, etc., yes) is ok for people to someone who was convinced it was in itself morally wrong, so I won’t.

But I don’t agree, and I guess I can leave it at that. I would ask that those of us who promote organic, free-range carnivorousness not focus on meat consumers as the main culprits, because like it or not, finances have a lot to do with what people buy at the meat counter, and if there are organic choices available, they are expensive. And because most people will just get defensive and tune you out anyway.

I would rather spend my energy on reforming the food industry itself, so that more people get the *chance* to eat organic and realize it really does taste better and is better for you. There are real health reasons to get rid of feedlots, hormones, etc., and that is where the strongest chances for change are. People may not be open to hearing “meat is murder” so much as “antibiotic-pumped, hormone-laced meat is bad for you and your kids.”

Just my $.02.