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	<title>Comments on: Lori Borgman: Dipshit</title>
	<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6210</link>
		<author>Carol</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6210</guid>
		<description>We can only hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We can only hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Hattie</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6211</link>
		<author>Hattie</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6211</guid>
		<description>I protect, provide and take responsibility. Does that make me a man?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I protect, provide and take responsibility. Does that make me a man?</p>
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		<title>By: CafeSiren</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6212</link>
		<author>CafeSiren</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6212</guid>
		<description>Re: the CRT issue --

According to a doctor quoted in the article: "Gender referral bias needs to be addressed by further studies, since women with congestive heart failure who qualify for CRT may have equal or greater benefit than men."

Now, for some medical procedures (transplants, say), doctors factor into the decision the question of the risk factors you are imposing upon yourself.  Do men in their 60's do more things that contribute to heart disease (eat more red meat, less fiber, exercise less, drink more alcohol) than do women?  Are women more likely to make radical lifestyle changes when faced with a life-threatening illness?  Could this in part explain the skewed numbers on patient benefit?

If so (and this is all pure speculation at this point): might the medical establishment conclude that women ought to be *favored* for such treatments?

Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: the CRT issue &#8211;</p>
<p>According to a doctor quoted in the article: &#8220;Gender referral bias needs to be addressed by further studies, since women with congestive heart failure who qualify for CRT may have equal or greater benefit than men.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now, for some medical procedures (transplants, say), doctors factor into the decision the question of the risk factors you are imposing upon yourself.  Do men in their 60&#8217;s do more things that contribute to heart disease (eat more red meat, less fiber, exercise less, drink more alcohol) than do women?  Are women more likely to make radical lifestyle changes when faced with a life-threatening illness?  Could this in part explain the skewed numbers on patient benefit?</p>
<p>If so (and this is all pure speculation at this point): might the medical establishment conclude that women ought to be *favored* for such treatments?</p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: smasherjane</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6213</link>
		<author>smasherjane</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6213</guid>
		<description>tsk tsk tsk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tsk tsk tsk</p>
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		<title>By: CafeSiren</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6214</link>
		<author>CafeSiren</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6214</guid>
		<description>Re: the Bergman piece --

Again, Twisty tries to induce vomiting in all of us.  Thanks a lot, TF!

Seriously, I started composing a satirical list in my head to counter Bergman's: "Men rape.  Men start wars.  Men throw tantrums when things don't go their way."  Most importantly: "Men validate our place in a patriarchy that we never made, but which we cannot escape, and which will marginalize and villify us if we try."

I used to have a list of what *I* personally needed a man around for: fixing cars and opening jars.  Then I realized that I'd never owned a car, and that manufacturers had started making jar lids small enough to get a non-male-sized hand around, and I realized that my list had shrunk to zero.

I would much rather have men in my life because I like them, not because I need them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: the Bergman piece &#8211;</p>
<p>Again, Twisty tries to induce vomiting in all of us.  Thanks a lot, TF!</p>
<p>Seriously, I started composing a satirical list in my head to counter Bergman&#8217;s: &#8220;Men rape.  Men start wars.  Men throw tantrums when things don&#8217;t go their way.&#8221;  Most importantly: &#8220;Men validate our place in a patriarchy that we never made, but which we cannot escape, and which will marginalize and villify us if we try.&#8221;</p>
<p>I used to have a list of what *I* personally needed a man around for: fixing cars and opening jars.  Then I realized that I&#8217;d never owned a car, and that manufacturers had started making jar lids small enough to get a non-male-sized hand around, and I realized that my list had shrunk to zero.</p>
<p>I would much rather have men in my life because I like them, not because I need them.</p>
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		<title>By: PrissyNot</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6215</link>
		<author>PrissyNot</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6215</guid>
		<description>Whoever said that men "take responsibility," "provide," and "protect" has got to be out of her tiny little brain!  Most men tend to bounce the blame off to whoever is handiest at the time, worry about providing for themselves first and then, maybe, periferally, if it reflects sufficient glory on them with the patriarchy, whoever else happens to be around (i.e. families); and as for protecting!  Please!  Who do you think we need to be protected from???? Well, let's see.  That would be men!  So, I agree with CafeSiren, none of us actually NEED men around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoever said that men &#8220;take responsibility,&#8221; &#8220;provide,&#8221; and &#8220;protect&#8221; has got to be out of her tiny little brain!  Most men tend to bounce the blame off to whoever is handiest at the time, worry about providing for themselves first and then, maybe, periferally, if it reflects sufficient glory on them with the patriarchy, whoever else happens to be around (i.e. families); and as for protecting!  Please!  Who do you think we need to be protected from???? Well, let&#8217;s see.  That would be men!  So, I agree with CafeSiren, none of us actually NEED men around.</p>
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		<title>By: flea</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6216</link>
		<author>flea</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6216</guid>
		<description>Please forgive me, but I have to put my nerd hat on now. I wasn't able to get the link to the originaly article to pull up (and perhaps that's for the best), but on the chance that the paraphrased "how do we need thee?" is the part that is being attributed to Shakespeare, well, it's actually from Elizabeth Barrett Browning's _Sonnets from the Portuguese_, Sonnet XLIII.

The Sonnets were written for Barrett Browning's husband, poet Robert Browning, who nicknamed her his "little Portuguese." Several of her sonnets are known for their strong feminist themes, although the sonnets in _Sonnets from the Portuguese_ are pretty much straightforward love poems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please forgive me, but I have to put my nerd hat on now. I wasn&#8217;t able to get the link to the originaly article to pull up (and perhaps that&#8217;s for the best), but on the chance that the paraphrased &#8220;how do we need thee?&#8221; is the part that is being attributed to Shakespeare, well, it&#8217;s actually from Elizabeth Barrett Browning&#8217;s _Sonnets from the Portuguese_, Sonnet XLIII.</p>
<p>The Sonnets were written for Barrett Browning&#8217;s husband, poet Robert Browning, who nicknamed her his &#8220;little Portuguese.&#8221; Several of her sonnets are known for their strong feminist themes, although the sonnets in _Sonnets from the Portuguese_ are pretty much straightforward love poems.</p>
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		<title>By: laughingmuse</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6217</link>
		<author>laughingmuse</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6217</guid>
		<description>'"How do we need thee? Let me count the ways: The primary reason we need men is because they are not women. ("Hallelujah Chorus" should be sung here.)"

Also:

"Men protect."

"Men provide."

"Men take responsibility."'

(I know my quotation marks are off.)

Reading this felt like being hit in the face with a particularly nasty, heavy bag of "Be a Little Lady and Hope People Like You!"  - in other words, bullshit.

Why why why do women have to turn against other women, in the silly and desperate hope that a man/more men might like *them* instead?  

I think we "ladies" (har har) should start valuing each other's opinions and acknowledgement as a nice start to offing the Patriarchy - rather than some of these women going all cutthroat and ridiculous.

Hey!  Guess what!  Some men really really REALLY don't give a shit, and view women as other, lower, lifeforms!  See international horrid prostitution as a start.  

Gah.  GAH!  I say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;&#8221;How do we need thee? Let me count the ways: The primary reason we need men is because they are not women. (&#8221;Hallelujah Chorus&#8221; should be sung here.)&#8221;</p>
<p>Also:</p>
<p>&#8220;Men protect.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Men provide.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Men take responsibility.&#8221;&#8216;</p>
<p>(I know my quotation marks are off.)</p>
<p>Reading this felt like being hit in the face with a particularly nasty, heavy bag of &#8220;Be a Little Lady and Hope People Like You!&#8221;  - in other words, bullshit.</p>
<p>Why why why do women have to turn against other women, in the silly and desperate hope that a man/more men might like *them* instead?  </p>
<p>I think we &#8220;ladies&#8221; (har har) should start valuing each other&#8217;s opinions and acknowledgement as a nice start to offing the Patriarchy - rather than some of these women going all cutthroat and ridiculous.</p>
<p>Hey!  Guess what!  Some men really really REALLY don&#8217;t give a shit, and view women as other, lower, lifeforms!  See international horrid prostitution as a start.  </p>
<p>Gah.  GAH!  I say.</p>
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		<title>By: susan</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6218</link>
		<author>susan</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6218</guid>
		<description>Amen and thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen and thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6219</link>
		<author>anon</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2005/11/28/lori-borgman-dipshit/#comment-6219</guid>
		<description>Ms. Borgman states:

"Men protect.
Men provide.
Men take responsibility.
Men tend to be steady."

But then:

"Last year in our nation, 1.5 million babies were born out of wedlock. These children have no "man of the house," no Dad who wants to marry Mom."

These statements don't go together. That's 1.5 million men (more or less) who are NOT protecting, providing, taking responsibility or being steady. And that doesn't include those men who ARE married but don't bother to do any of those either (I was married to one of those; a guy who was proud of having never "grown up" -- and I hear that frequently from men of my generation).

It is NOT the fault of someone else when an individual isn't responsible. To be responsible is up to that individual; to expect someone else to force you to be reponsible just shows how irresponsible and immature you are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ms. Borgman states:</p>
<p>&#8220;Men protect.<br />
Men provide.<br />
Men take responsibility.<br />
Men tend to be steady.&#8221;</p>
<p>But then:</p>
<p>&#8220;Last year in our nation, 1.5 million babies were born out of wedlock. These children have no &#8220;man of the house,&#8221; no Dad who wants to marry Mom.&#8221;</p>
<p>These statements don&#8217;t go together. That&#8217;s 1.5 million men (more or less) who are NOT protecting, providing, taking responsibility or being steady. And that doesn&#8217;t include those men who ARE married but don&#8217;t bother to do any of those either (I was married to one of those; a guy who was proud of having never &#8220;grown up&#8221; &#8212; and I hear that frequently from men of my generation).</p>
<p>It is NOT the fault of someone else when an individual isn&#8217;t responsible. To be responsible is up to that individual; to expect someone else to force you to be reponsible just shows how irresponsible and immature you are.</p>
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