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Feb 24 2006

South Dakota To Women: “Bend Over And Smile”

In South Dakota, where most of the human heads you see are those sunk deep into snow-white asses, women are now officially defined as uteruses to be disposed of as the state sees fit. Not that it’s ever been any different anywhere in else the world. South Dakota’s just admitting openly, like they do in, say, Iran, that the legal and social status of women is equivalent to that of livestock. And everybody’s cheering, because this returns control of reproduction, from the dirty ignorant sluts who arrogantly aspire to human status, to the male-led state. The natural order is preserved. White “babies” will not be aborted. Praise Jesus.

Once the honky dudes control access to abortion, the Sanctity of Motherhood, already one of the most pervasive patriarchal lies, will once again assume its place as the centerpiece of female existence. Women are eager for this, since their meager rewards come only when they cease to fight their subjugation and obeisantly take it up the cunt like proper members of the sex class.

Of course, not every woman will be allowed to revel in the sanctity of motherhood. Controlling reproduction is not limited to restricting abortion. It’s only a short hop from telling a victim of incest, as they may now do in South Dakota, “Tough shit, you sick little Lolita” to the flipside: court-ordered sterilization of undesirables: junkies, loonies, cripples, women with genetic abnormalities, “welfare mothers” who just can’t say no.

It’s already happening. If you’re a lesbian trying to get turkey-basted in a fertility clinic, good fucking luck.

This shit comes directly from godbaggery. The religious right have successfully transplanted the moral authority of their deity–the ghost of a dead Jew from the Roman Empire–to an unthinking police state incapable of moral insight.

Theocracy is now, my young onions.

82 comments

4 pings

  1. CafeSiren

    You forgot the best part of this legislation: the paragraph that, in an legislative exercise of science-by-fiat that would make Cardinal Bellarmine proud, declares that life begins with the fertilized egg.

    The holes in this “argument” are astounding; its implications are horrifying.

  2. Hattie

    Moo!

  3. The Happy Feminist

    Hmmm . . . I am not sure I’d blame the dead Jew. I don’t think he had anything to say about abortion.

    But I suppose we could blame those who deem themselves qualified to pronounce on what the dead Jew from the Roman Empire would do if he were sitting in the South Dakotan legislature!

  4. B. Dagger Lee

    Dear Twisty and Sisters:

    All my life I’ve remembered seeing a picture of a woman who bled to death after an illegal abortion. I would imagine I saw it in Ms. Magazine in the 70’s. I googled a little and found the photo and a brief bio of Gerri Santoro at the web site listed below:

    http://www.sapphireblue.com/25years/

    Honor Gerri Santoro’s memory. Say her name, say her name, say her name.

    Reading her bio–she had two children–reminds me that my mother had an abortion when I was about twelve and my brother was about three. Financially, we were scraping by, and she got a safe, cheap, legal abortion in our hometown. I think it was around 1975.

    I’m so angry.
    B. Dagger Lee

  5. Will

    I suspect that this law will get quickly slammed in court.

    However, the Nebraska “partial birth” case is probably much more dangerous to abortion rights since it places women’s health as a non-factor.

  6. Hattie

    My mother had a (then illegal) abortion when I was 8 & my sister was 3. It was contraceptive failure. There was no way she could afford another kid; we were barely getting by as it was.

  7. Lisa Cech

    The South Dakota law also makes the woman’s health a non-issue. The law specifically allows only for death or “substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.”

    One of the most offensive and patronizingly patriarchal paragraphs I’ve ever read is Section 3 of this legislation:

    “…abortions terminate the constitutionally protected fundamental interest of the pregnant mother in her relationship with her child and abortions are performed without a truly informed or voluntary consent or knowing waiver of the woman’s rights and interests. The Legislature finds that the state has a duty to protect the pregnant mother’s fundamental interest in her relationship with her unborn child.”

    Aaaaaaagh!

  8. B. Dagger Lee

    And to add to what Twisty says above, I have two propositions in a new manifesto:

    1: The fetus is the Patriarchy’s flag planted at Iwo Jima, the flag claiming Antartica for Amerikka; the fetus is the flag the Patriarchy waves and plants in its war to reclaim and control women and our bodies.

    2: Laws against abortion are the Patriarchy crying you tried to abort me, you don’t want me, I will force you to have me; to give birth to me and to be raped by me. Laws against abortion are laws which try to institutionalize the Patriarchy’s rape of women.

    More propositions, please.

    Maybe you could change the Blame button to Die, Patriarchy, Die! Just for awhile.

    I am so, so, so angry.
    B. Dagger Lee

  9. will

    Lisa Cech:

    I agree. You are correct. What I meant was the the South Dakota law is going to get thrown out and probably never even gets cert from the US Supremes, but that the Nebraska case is in front of the Supremes and could be a major blow to abortion rights.

    The South Dakota law is clearly worse, but because it is so bad, it will go away quickly.

  10. LMYC

    Again, a total control-freak temper tantrum that uteruses and tits have peopel attached to them. Wouldn’t the world be much simpler if they didn’t? If uteruses just grew under rocks and you could pull a nice tit off a tree when you got peckish? Seriously. Breathe that freshy, clean scent of the World According To Man, the ultimate male paradise.

    When they make that joke about “3′ tall with no teeth and a flat head you can rest a beer can on” they aren’t kidding. They mean it. They really, really mean it.

    We EXIST, and they hate us for it. Germaine Greer was right.

  11. cm

    Why are they so afraid of us?

  12. PoliSi

    Sorry will, I don’t share your optimism that “it will go away quickly”. Should it go away quickly? Hell yes, it should have never been dreamt up in the first place, but with the Scourt stacked the way they are, I’m just not sure it’ll be tossed out as a matter of course as you seem to think it will be (and why exactly would this be tossed automatically, but the Nabraska one wouldn’t?).

  13. B. Dagger Lee

    Okay, last post, but I want to tout the Center for Reproductive Rights, here in New York City; it’s an outstanding organization that fights in courts all over the world for women’s reproductive rights. They have lots of information on the recent history of court battles here in the States (since they were doing a lot of the fighting), and are worthy of both your time reviewing their site and your money if you can spare some.

    http://www.crlp.org/

    Die Patriarchy Die in miserable Ronald Reaganlike Alzheimers oblivion!

    Grr, grr, grrr.
    B. Dagger Lee

  14. will

    Polisci:

    because I do not think the Supreme Court is ready to overturn Roe directly.

    Good link DaggerLee.

  15. Txfeminist

    They may or may not slap this down in South D, but it’s going to be an ongoing game of Whack A Mole all over the US map from here on out. Somewhere, a few are bound to get through, and that’s a few too many for me.

    Want to see what government-controlled uteruses look like? Right now?

    Take a peek at IHS, or Indian Health Services. Although IHS technically allows abortion in cases of rape or life endangerment to the mother (how kind of them) guess how many they’ve done in South Dakota in the last 25 years? 20. Yeah, that’s right, 20. In a population with a far higher rate of sexual assault and rape than any other population in South Dakota.

    Oh yeah, and not to mention thousands of Native American women had forced-fucking-sterization back in the 70′s under IHS too.

    And did I mention the high teen pregnancy rates? The super-high infant mortality rates?

    People, we are in trouble. But then again, you all know that.

  16. burrow

    ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Protect the mpother’s relationship with her unborn child? Yeah, that’ll be a great relationship especially if they were the product of rape/incest (I know it’s not always the case so don’t flame me). Ugh. I had to grow up with a mother who resented me for not being female enough, I can’t imagine how bad it would be if she didn’t want me.

    Fuckers fuckers fuckers.

  17. will

    Excellent gathering of stats TXFeminist.

  18. LMYC

    … an ongoing game of Whack A Mole all over the US map …

    Like Lenin said, constant pressure constantly applied. They push us to one side, and we celebrate a “victory” by convincing them to only push us one inch instead of one foot. A dozen of those, and we’ve lost a foot of territory anyhow.

  19. Txfeminist

    check RSF for links to stats.

  20. laughingmuse

    How. utterly. patronizing.

    Protect a woman’s constitutional right to a relationship with her child? What the FUCK kind of statement is that? What if it is not a child yet? What if she does not want that relationship? What if the State doesn’t give two shits about destitute families to begin with?

  21. Donna

    Laughingmuse, that is the patriarchy injecting the most dangerous and pernicious myth of all time, that of the so-called maternal instinct, into legislature. We’ll MAKE the dirty sluts love their babies, goddammit.

    If that shit doesn’t get thrown out of court immediately, we all might as well resign ourselves to being residents of the wealthiest 3rd world country.

  22. Q Grrl

    B.Dagger Lee: I appreciate your rage.

  23. Donna

    Of course, I meant legislation not legislature. Patriarchy-rage causes occasional usage lapses in its sufferers.

  24. LMYC

    What if
    the State doesn’t give two shits about destitute families to begin
    with?

    Silly rabbit. The state only wants to protect your relationship with your FETUS, when you are the only creature it makes any demands on. Once it’s out in the world, your relationship with it can go straight down the toilet from starvation or inadequate medical care.

  25. robin

    They’re afraid of us partially because they don’t want us to give birth to a child containing another man’s DNA. I think the fear/oppression of women historically has a lot to do with being able to control & establish paternity, for starters.
    Women who own their own reproducive processes have always terrified men, (I mean as a group, you individual dudes who don’t personally subscribe to the tenets of the patriarchy)
    because the ability to bring forth life is hecka powerful and threatens the huevos off the guys – so they jumped in and trampled women down to leash in that power.
    To chime in, i wish I had a button I could push everytime someone calls a 20-cell speck a baby which would cause a large slimy poisonous toad to land on their face.

  26. thebewilderness

    The leading cause of death of pregnant women is murder.
    Over and over this plays in my head every time the patriarchy passes one of these deadly pieces of legislation. The leading cause of death of pregnant women is murder, and the patriarchy is just fine with that. Makes for a good show on telly.
    As this evil spreads through the land those of us in the northwest corner of the country will open our homes to refugees and assist their escape to Canada. Unless, of course, the wingnuts there steal a march on the US and manage to criminalize being a woman first.

  27. Kat

    the ability to bring forth life is hecka powerful and threatens the huevos off the guys

    Reminds me of the Firefly episode ‘Objects in Space’ where Early slaps Inara across the face for trying to stop him kidnapping River, and as he walks away says, “Man is stronger by far than woman, but only woman can create a child. That seem right to you?”

    So unfair that men don’t have complete and absolute control over everything, isn’t it?

  28. Maven

    Could’ve guessed, but:
    http://villagevoice.com/news/0609,roston,72317,2.html
    “A campaign to push the legislation through the U.S. court system up to the Supreme Court where South Dakotans can lead the charge to overturn Roe v. Wade, will cost over $1 million. South Dakota doesn’t have that kind of money. So [Gov.] Rounds is studying ways of accepting into the state treasury private funds with which to wage the battle in the name of the South Dakota citizenry. In short,the well-heeled opponents of abortion are going to hire the public state government to fight their battle.”

    Angry Angry Angry Angry

  29. Mandos

    They’re afraid of us partially because they don’t want us to give birth to a child containing another man’s DNA. I think the fear/oppression of women historically has a lot to do with being able to control & establish paternity, for starters.

    So maybe we should establish mandatory DNA paternity testing or something?

  30. Q Grrl

    Why would we need to do that Mandos? Does it really matter if men know or not?

  31. Kelley

    I so monumentally pissed at the fucktards, I don’t know what to do. A murderous rampage through the SD legislature would be fun, but sadly illegal.

    So here’s a better solution. Round up all the anti-choice folks in the state, including the legislators who voted for this asinine piece of crap. Put their names on a list, and when all the unwanted babies are born to women who could no longer obtain a safe, legal abortion, start handing out the babies to each person on the list as his/her name comes up. Doesn’t matter if they want one, or can afford one; doesn’t matter if the child has special needs. If the wingnuts can force women to carry a pregnancy to term against her will, they should have to open their homes to all those unwanted children.

    In other words, put up or shut the fuck up!!!!

  32. Mandos

    Why would we need to do that Mandos? Does it really matter if men know or not?

    Well, we could also randomize the babies in the maternity ward or something.

  33. a nonnie mom

    lisa cech noted that part of the legislation that deems NO woman’s consent to abortion informed or voluntary or knowing. right. so women are not legal humans? for this one purpose, or what? how ’bout if the woman is a doctor or lawyer or parent or worker or teacher or — hell, aren’t some women even governors of entire states? isn’t condi responsible for, like, some important stuff? [well, she has connections, so no problem there.]

    another really sick aspect of this legislation is that it tries to incorporate legal language about mental competence to across-the-board disqualify women from this decision, but in other contexts, these same legal standards are twisted in other directions. mentally retarded criminal defendant confessed under coersion — no problem! it was free and voluntary and informed and cool!

    there have got to be some really angry women in SD. be good if we could find out what they need by way of support.

  34. Llelldorin

    It’s amazing that half the population of my home county can cause this much trouble, isn’t it?

    South Dakota can barely scrape together three-quarters of a million people. Can we put them in receivership and demand that they merge with North Dakota to remain eligible for statehood?

    I mean, let’s get serious here. Sioux Falls, their largest city, is smaller than Pasadena, CA. During the dot-com boom, San Francisco had more residents than the entire state. If you chopped up California into South Dakota-sized states, Los Angeles County would have 26 Senators.

    Actually, that gives me an idea. Weren’t the libertarians looking for a small state that they could take over and run as their private utopia awhile back? I’m no libertarian, but they wouldn’t be down with this sort of law either. Plus, watching fundies v. libertarians on the prarie might be good enough to sell tickets for.

  35. antelope

    I like the randomizing idea. If every fetus is equally precious, and God decides how long they live & what their quality of life should be, and every fetus deserves a chance to be loved, then what does it matter which one you get?

    Hell, while we’re at it, let’s make it against the law to raise a child that has your own genetic material. Can’t you just hear the outcry, “But – you can’t expect law-abiding, Christian couples to raise a child that they don’t WANT!”

    “Well you see, the State now has a surplus of newborns in need of homes, and we’re just trying to raise the adoption rates. It’s every bit as important as lowering the abortion rate if we’re going to protect these babies. The Lord intends for every baby to have a home.”

    Okay – they have officially driven me around the bend. But still.

  36. Hattie

    I just spent an hour trying to talk a woman I know into getting her tubes tied when she has her baby. Her boyfriend wants more kids so he can have a “real family.” She has two and is expecting # three. She cries all the time, but she knows abortion is a sin. It really upsets her to hear me talking about abortion the way I do, as a practical necessity sometimes. Poor thing. I mean, this is the real, on the ground stuff that happens all the time to women. She loves him, so she feels she must suffer. And she will, unless she starts using her not inconsiderable intelligence to figure out her future. Sure, getting your tubes tied is no fun, but neither is bringing up a bunch of kids on (increasingly stingy) public assistance.

  37. LMYC

    Sure, getting your tubes tied is no fun …

    Sure it is. They even go in through a tiny little hole to do it, so almost no scar.

    A tubal ligation is a gift you give yourself! Sort of like an orgasm. :-)

  38. mishupishu

    Let’s just call it what it is. Any law put forth by the legislative body that puts limits on a woman’s control of her body is legislative rape! They are entering your womb without your assent.

  39. tigtog

    It’s time to start trawling the secondhand bookshops for copies of The Handmaid’s Tale and The Gate to Women’s Country again. Give them to any teenage girl I meet. Get them thinking on the long term consequences of this shit well before they’re eligible to vote.

  40. veet

    LMYC: you got that right. Tied mine at 28 yo. the good ol’ days: no needing someone elses’ permission or justification. One of the many ways I consider myself privileged.

  41. txfeminist

    Maven —

    they’ve apparently found a wealthy, anonymous donor to pay the funding to send this straight up.

    Ugh.

  42. CafeSiren

    there have got to be some really angry women in SD. be good if we could find out what they need by way of support.

    Hear, hear! Anyone got any SD connection? I await my marching orders.

  43. Violet Socks

    If only we could harness and make tangible the righteous anger in the feminist blogosphere over this profoundly fucktarded legislation. Think of it: a bolus of white-hot anger descending on South Dakota like a fireball of feminist retribution. Yes!

  44. LMYC

    Txfeminist, ain’t it amazing how, if you’re filthy fucking rich, you get to make laws for everone despite having never won a single election in your life? Ain’t capitalism grand?

    *vomits*

  45. Frumious B.

    Now is the time to support Planned Parenthood.

    http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/getinvolved/donate/monthly_donor.xml

  46. Hattie

    Great, LYMC. I’ll tell that to my young friend.

  47. Txfeminist

    LMYC, I totally agree. Now where’s that Powerball ticket???

    And when does the bolus-train leave? I’m on it.

  48. Psychobunny

    What if the State doesn’t give two shits about destitute families to begin with?–laughingmuse

    I’ve lived in South Dakota my entire life. (Only two years left until I finally get my bachelor’s and blow this place for good!)

    I grew up in a dilapidated, roach-infested apartment complex, the only child of a single mother. When I was about two, people slept in the hallways after dark, and may your deity of choice help you if you disturbed them. At age six, I decided I was lucky not to have a father because at least there was no one around to beat my mother and me as I had seen so many of my friends’ fathers do. At age eight, a friend and I narrowly escaped being gang raped and possibly murdered by the local teenage gang. (Thanks for teaching me to go for the testicles, Mom!) And can you guess where this apartment complex is located? Anyone? It’s two blocks from the state capitol building and one block from the governor’s mansion.

    Do they care what’s going on almost right under their noses? Well, if they do, they’re pretty damn good at hiding it. This legislation is just one more f-you to the masses. I don’t think I’ve ever been more ashamed to call South Dakota my home.

  49. Jenny M.

    I know that everyone has probably read the articles at length, but I wanted to point out a section in the website I posted.

    “Leslee Unruh, president of the Alpha Center, a Sioux Falls pregnancy counseling agency that tries to steer women away from abortion, said most of the abortions performed in South Dakota do not stem from rape or even failed contraception, but are simply “conveniences.”

    Unruh said she believes most South Dakota women want the state to ban abortion, and many who have had abortions “wish someone would have stopped them.” ”

    I guess I am now thoroughly disgusted.

  50. Jenny M.

    Once. Just once I would like a man to experience the shame, and fear of being pregnant for any number of reasons, rape, incest, the inability to know better.

  51. PseudoAdrienne

    Does anybody know how to render oneself sterile in a relatively safe fashion? You know herbs or something? My mother actually became sterile after a mishap with an IUD, this was back in the seventies (that’s why I’m adopted). Alas, I’m only twenty and my mother keeps telling me that no gyno in the world would ever tie my tubes (unless I dish out a million or two, and I’m a broke-ass college student so that’s out). Being a pre-menopausal female in this country is outright dangerous.

  52. femmeyfemmefemme

    First of all, thank you so much for this blog, I’ve been reading for awhile and never commented. However this legislation made me angry enough to emerge from my lurkdom.

    I was outraged a few weeks ago when I first heard this and the possiblity of this being passed.

    I’m also enraged that there is no exception for rape or incest.

    Its a second form of victimization for women suffering the traumatic emotional affects of a rape by a stranger or family member.

    Essentially the legislators are blaming and punishing the victim for the situation she got herself into, because women are evil temptresses and deserve what they get.

    “The Legislature finds that the state has a duty to protect the pregnant mother’s fundamental interest in her relationship with her unborn child.” Right, because women have uteruses, they’re automatically hardwired to be mothers.

    Ahhhhh, I’m so pissed off.

  53. Violet Socks

    I don’t know about that, Pseudo-Adrienne, but Burrow had this great post up awhile back (crossing fingers link is formatted correctly):

    How to induce a miscarriage herbally

  54. Lorenzo

    Twisty,

    This shit comes directly from godbaggery. The religious right have successfully transplanted the moral authority of their deity–the ghost of a dead Jew from the Roman Empire–to an unthinking police state incapable of moral insight.

    The best part is that they didn’t even event it. They just adopted the existing conventional wisdom at the in ancient Rome, and the Romans took the idea from the ancient Greeks, and it is probably even older than that: Woman is passive, innert soil into which man implants his active, life creating seed. Woman has no role in creating life beyond soil into which seed is sown (and reaped) by active man. CafeSirens picked up on the proof “You forgot the best part of this legislation: the paragraph that, in an legislative exercise of science-by-fiat that would make Cardinal Bellarmine proud, declares that life begins with the fertilized egg.”

    Defining life as begining at fertilization impicitly rests on exactly that ancient assumption.

  55. TC

    Pseudo-Adrienne, I’ve not found anything for herbal sterilisation (and I have the same problem as you, I’m 23).

    I have found this book
    ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0952997568/202-5799172-0919050?_encoding=UTF8 ), but I’ll be posting the info from it on my own blog if you’d rather save yourself the money.

    Spread this around if you want, as soon as the book arrives I’ll make the remedies available.

  56. Keren

    First of all, Twisty, I think you’re awesome. Even when I totally disagree with you, I think you’re awesome. I wish you were my neighbor. Keep doing what you’re doing.

    And b), PseudoAdrienne, find yourself a good OB/GYN or get yourself to Planned Parenthood and see what they think about Depo-Provera or an IUD for you. IUD’s are way safer, smaller, and overall better than they used to be, and are now appropriate for women who haven’t yet had babies. Plus, they’re totally reversible. I’d suggest the OrthoEvra patch if it hadn’t been recently implicated in strokes (or “brain attacks,” as they’re calling ‘em). If you’re good at taking pills, there are lots of new formulations of the daily one that have fewer side effects than the old fashioned ones do.

    Your mom’s right–few docs will tie the tubes of someone your age. In many studies, being of a tender age when getting your tubes tied is a big risk factor for regretting it later.* Not that you’re going to change your mind, but this just makes it harder for a doc to offer it as an option in good conscience. Especially when there are some other, pretty decent options out there that require very little day-to-day fuss.

    I do think keeping yourself unpregnant is an important enough concern to warrant getting yourself in to see a health care provider. Although you could always try sleeping with chicks. http://tinyurl.com/5fetp. I’m just sayin’.

    *Oldie but goodie reference: Chi IC. Jones DB. Incidence, risk factors, and prevention of poststerilization regret in women: an updated international review from an epidemiological perspective. Obstetrical & Gynecological Survey. 49(10):722-32, 1994 Oct.

  57. PseudoAdrienne

    Woo-hoo! Thanks for the advice folks. And yes, if any woman in this country wants to retain any semblance of her autonomy and rights/liberties she’d better stay unpregnant.

  58. Twisty

    Alas, PseudoA, as you are all too well aware, staying unpregnant under the auspices of patriarchy is a singularly difficult proposition. This is because, among other reasons, women (even ones who endeavor to sleep only with chicks, or with nobody at all) cannot control when or with whom they have sex, and because, assuming you can find a pharmacist to sell it to you at all, birth control can fail.

  59. Rebecca

    If this law really sets (or resets) the precedence of assuming that adult women can not give informed consent to medical procedures, that opens a whole new can of worms.

    I mean, will SD women be allowed to drive and buy alcohol now? How about open a bank account, or have guardianship of their children? Did we just step back to the Victorian age here?

    Is it possible that you could bankrupt the whole darn state by challenging this puppy on more fronts in addition to the right to abortion one? Cause I’m pretty sure that would make sure that these morons get kicked out of office pronto. This has been a factor in removing school boards and legislatures that supported teaching creationism as science kicked out. Regardless of what voters believe, if you bankrupt their region, they will get pissed at your ass.

  60. louiseculmer

    An alien from outer space reading this thread might get the entirely erroneous impression that all women are pro-abortion, and all men anti. For all I know this may be the case in the US, but not in the UK, where many of the most vociferous opponents of abortion are women. Can it really be so different in the US?

    How do the people on this site feel, for instance, about the getting rid of unwanted femael babies? A hospital in India did a survey on the sex of aborted foetuses, and found that out of I think it was 1000 aborted foetusues, only one was male. and In China, where they have a one-child policy, females are regularly aborted so that the more favoured male child can be tried for. This means that, as Mark Steyn observed in The Telegraph “a woman’s right to choose means far fewer women to choose from”. A woman I know who was in Egypt when she became pregnant and was told after a scan that her baby was male. However, in fact she gave birth to a girl. when she asked her doctor how such a mistake could have been made, he explained that Egyptian doctors always tell pregnant women that their babies are boys, otherwise they usually ask for an abortion.

    Abortion can be very convenient for men too, getting rid of an unwanted responsibility. The idea that all men are yearning to keep all women perpetually pregnant is slightly eccentric, many men are anxious to avoid the responsibility altogether. That those who are against abortion (women as well as men) have serious moral objections to the practice is perhaps worth considering. A woman’s right to choose might be countered for instance by the argument, what about the child’s right to live?

  61. Jill

    “A woman’s right to choose might be countered for instance by the argument, what about the child’s right to live?”

    Children have every right to live. Children are, by definition, born. And I have a right to live, but I don’t have the right to physically attach myself to your body and use your organs for my survival. What the anti-choicers are asking for is for the fetus to have greater rights than any born person has.

  62. MissPrism

    Medical science needs to develop a procedure whereby an unwanted pregnancy can be removed from a woman and implanted in a “pro-life” loon, against said loon’s will.
    The tricky bit will be ensuring that male loons can also be recipients.

    (Hello all – I’m new here. Twisty, you rock.)

  63. ae

    Louise, pro-abortion and pro-choice are not to be confused. China’s one-child policy and India’s practice of female infancticide are pro-abortion, and you will find among their most vociferous oponents feminist reproductive rights (pro-choice) activists. Conflating the two is specious, at best, and inflammatory and irresponsible at least. Forced abortion, like forced pregnancy, is antithetical to a pro-reproductive rights philosophy.

    As for “the rights of the child,” please let’s not confuse fetus with child. You have access to many dictionaries that could provide more specific definitions than I could, but I offer that a child is afforded all human rights when it is able to thrive outside of its host. Until then, the rights of the woman providing the bodily shelter and nourishment of her very lifeblood trump all else.

  64. Tish

    Never before have I been so ashamed to be a resident of South Dakota. I find the high possibility that it might be approved(Mike Rounds has surprised everyone before) almost as disturbing as no one seeming to give a shit. I keep trying to tell myself that it’s because everyone knows it’s not constitutional, but I know that it’s really because South Dakotans agree with it.

  65. Delphyne

    “but not in the UK, where many of the most vociferous opponents of abortion are women”

    I’m in the UK and there aren’t enough vocal opponents of abortion here to notice what sex they are. People have tried to import the US-style anti-abortion fanaticism over here but it hasn’t worked.

  66. Flamethorn

    Kat,

    Early also licked the ship. That seem sane to you?

  67. Famous Soviet Athlete

    LMYC

    Txfeminist, ain’t it amazing how, if you’re filthy fucking rich, you get to make laws for everone despite having never won a single election in your life? Ain’t capitalism grand?

    Exactly. Thank you.

    louiseculmer

    This means that, as Mark Steyn observed in The Telegraph “a woman’s right to choose means far fewer women to choose from”.

    Poor Mark Steyn. I’d hate to see him have less women to choose from on his next shopping-for-women-in-China spree.

  68. Emma

    I’m in the UK and there aren’t enough vocal opponents of abortion here to notice what sex they are. People have tried to import the US-style anti-abortion fanaticism over here but it hasn’t worked.

    I’m not so sure. It’s now routine for the BBC to wheel out Julia Millington for any discussion on reproductive health. I note that in this article on RU486 they’ve given her a pull-out quote, without offering the same courtesy to the DoH or the Family Planning Association. The article also describes LIFE as ‘the UK’s caring charity’ – a hideous misnomer.

    You will note that ‘Abortion Rights’, one of the most prominent pro-choice lobbying groups, was not asked for a quote.

    You’re right in that we have no Randall Terry-type figures, but the anti-choicers are mobilising.

  69. Delphyne

    That’s one. That doesn’t equal a whole lot of women making a noise against abortion as our friend Louise was claiming.

    The only others I can think of are the Wee Frees (those haters of Christmas, dancing and shops opening on Sundays) who mount teeny protests up in Scotland sometimes.

  70. Violet Socks

    For all I know this may be the case in the US, but not in the UK, where many of the most vociferous opponents of abortion are women. Can it really be so different in the US?

    louiseculmer, it is not so different in the U.S. In fact, the sponsor of this South Dakota bill is actually a woman (photo and rant here if you’re interested). She’s also a Democrat, which gives you some idea of what we’re facing on this side of the pond. Women in the U.S. can’t even rely on female Democrats to stand up for our rights.

  71. Ledasmom

    Yah know, louise, I kinda suspect that if abortion suddenly disappeared in China and India, that the status of women would not suddenly shoot up. I just have this feeling. I also kinda suspect that pre-birth sex selection would be replaced, at least to some extent, with post-birth sex selection. In other words, abortion is not the problem; the crappy status of women as opposed to men is the problem.
    And I don’t think I give a rodent’s rear for anyone’s moral objections to abortion. I have moral objections to people being gratuitous assbrains, and at least those don’t generally attach themselves to your insides and make you feed them.

  72. kate

    When I was a rabid activist/lobbyist against welfare deform in the gay ole’ nineties, I kept telling my children that they needed to learn a European language and some skills to plant themselves there because I then saw this country heading to hell.

    But then I calmed down and backed off.

    Now I am ratcheted up again and am back to telling my children, most importantly my two daughters to get their degrees and learn a European language like French in order to be able to scoot outta here when the shit flies.

    And it will. They keep pushing, ten commandments on the lawns, christianity being the state religion, creationism taught in public schools, books burned and banned, state controlled media. Neighbors spying on each other, pointing fingers, hating, the state spying, hiding information, unflagged corporate treading on environmental protections and human rights. Its coming from all directions all at once.

    One battle here or there may be won, but they intend to win the war.

    I have to learn french and make friends overseas. soon.

  73. louiseculmer

    I personally am pro-choice, but I am able to understand why some people find abortions distasteful.

    When my oldest son was engaged a couple of years ago I started dreaming of eventually having grandchildren. It didn’t come to anything, they split up, but I wonder now how I would have felt if the son’s fiancee had got pregnant and had an abortion. I think I would have felt very regretful. I wouldn’t have tried to talk her out of it, but it would have caused me pain.

    So I can understand how opponents of abortion feel, because they are able to translate that personal sense of loss that I would have felt in that case, to a general sense of loss for all aborted babies.

    Mary Kenny’s argument against abortion, for instance,is not that a child has a ‘right to life’ because as she points out, nobody really has a right to life “Any of us may die at any minute, and all of us will die eventually” What she says is that nobody has a right to terminate a life. It’s not the child that has a right to life, so much as that another person does not have a right to end that life.

    You may not care about the moral arguments against abortion, but others do, and they’re not going to go away if you ignore them.

  74. AyMayZed

    louiseculmer,
    You’ve sort of got the idea.
    You’ve sort of got the language.
    But you’ve missed the target by a huge margin.

    All of your posts have a formula; the formula that door-knocking evangelists use;
    the one that feigns a weary world experience and an all-accepting understanding of differences expressed by your captive householders when you have a foot in their door.
    The laughable giveaway in your wee dribblings in this forum is that you have absolutely no language that rings true for the experience of someone who has genuinely felt the revelation of recognising the powerless position of a woman in your society.
    Not to mention that you have such a heavy hand when you haul on the tiller to pull every post around to babies, babies,babies.
    And it has been laying me out with mirth to see your attempts to demonstrate a wider-than-the-choice-interest/ fellow-feeling with your sisters over there in the “When Rape is a Gift” thread. Just trying to get credibility in here are you?
    Have you any idea how clumsy you are?

    Don’t you see that you’re getting ignored?

    Back to fundamentalist-infiltrator school with you now and don’t come back without at least a C pass in dissembling.

  75. TC

    Sorry for using your blog for this, Twisty.

    But further natural abortion info is at this site:
    http://www.sisterzeus.com/

  76. louiseculmer

    This site is, so I understand it, moderated. Therefore no post of mine is going to appear on here unless approved by the moderator. If you don’t like what I write, take it up with her not me. if she chooses not to let my posts appear, that is up to her.

    As for women being powerless in ‘our’ society, I live in the UK, where women are certainly not powerless. We have the power to choose to enter any profession we like. We can enter or leave any relationship we like. If we get married and don’t like it we can get divorced. We can wear what we like, we don’t have to go around dressed in bloody burquas or anything. Nobody is going to stone us to death for committing adultery, or lock us up in prison if we choose to leave an abusive spouse. I’ve done exactly as I liked all my life, and so have all the other women I know.

    What society do you live in where women are so powerless? I would love to know.

  77. Katherine

    Lousieculmer – you live in a different UK to me. Can I live in yours?

  78. Chris Clarke

    This site is, so I understand it, moderated. Therefore no post of mine is going to appear on here unless approved by the moderator. If you don’t like what I write, take it up with her not me.

    Would you say your desire to be submissive within your marriage stems from the same reluctance to take responsibility for your own actions as evidenced in the above sentence, or does it spring from another source altogether?

  79. Violet Socks

    Oh, dear, louiseculmer is one of those? It seems I’m at quite the disadvantage not being able to stomach the Rape is a Gift thread.

  80. viveth

    I unfortunately live in Texas (for now) and I predict that this state will join SD in its assualt on women in short order. This doesn’t have to be 3rd world country to be barbaric.

    - They don’t want to fund any kind of sex education
    - They oppose and have routinely cut funding for public clinics that offer contraception
    - They don’t want to spend precious government pork-dollars on pre-natal care for the woman whose life they have hijacked.
    - Their health care system can’t cope with the cost of a birth to a too-young, unhealthy, and un-cared-for mother.
    - Their health care system can’t care for an infant born unhealthy due to lack of pre-natal care.
    - They cut funding for school breakfasts offered to poor children.
    - They punish poor school districts by taking away even more funding.
    - Once again, they refuse to teach these unwanted, underfed, undereducated children how to stay unpregnant.

    Where, exactly, is the gushing concern for the child here? How can they claim this is about fetuses, children, morals, or responsibility? This is all about crushing everything that is female, poor, or unprofitable.

  81. Luckynkl

    Looks like Mississippi is next.

    “Gov. Haley Barbour said Wednesday he would probably sign a bill under consideration in the state House that would ban most abortions in Mississippi.

    The measure, which passed the House Public Health Committee on Tuesday, would allow abortion only to save a woman’s life. It would make no exception in cases of rape or incest….

    …..The full House could vote on the bill next week, and it would then go to the Senate.

    South Dakota lawmakers passed a similar bill last week that was intended to provoke a legal showdown over Roe vs. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling establishing the right to an abortion. The measure is awaiting Republican Gov. Mike Rounds’ signature. He has said he is inclined to sign it. ”

    Hmmm… it’s too bad the mothers of these power and control freaks didn’t decide to do us all a favor and abort these assholes.

  82. wannabedesi

    Thank you Happy Feminist. Not all who follow Jesus are anti-choice mysoginistic creeps or women brainwashed into thinking their only value can be found in their reproductive organs. In fact Jesus wasn’t a mysoginistic creep, so why put his name with a bunch of goons who claim they follow his teaching.

  1. Reclusive Leftist

    I don’t usually use this kind of language for other women, but: Fuck you, you vicious bitch

    In the coverage of South Dakota’s bold new law to reduce women to the legal standing of cuttlefish, not much attention is being paid to the fact that the main sponsor of this legislation is a female Democrat. Senator Julie Bartling is her nam…

  2. at bitter-girl :: musings

    [...] You can’t see this, but I just quivered a little after pasting that quote in… Or, as Twisty put it over at I Blame The Patriarchy: In South Dakota, where most of the human heads you see are those sunk deep into snow-white asses, women are now officially defined as uteruses to be disposed of as the state sees fit. Not that it’s ever been any different anywhere in else the world. South Dakota’s just admitting openly, like they do in, say, Iran, that the legal and social status of women is equivalent to that of livestock. And everybody’s cheering, because this returns control of reproduction, from the dirty ignorant sluts who arrogantly aspire to human status, to the male-led state. The natural order is preserved. White “babies” will not be aborted. Praise Jesus. [...]

  3. BlogHer [beta]

    Around the Dial: “And so it begins…” The Supreme Court will review a late-term abortion procedure – Part 3

    The concluding post in a three-part series covering the response to the latest political news that the Supreme Court will review the constitutionality of banning a late-term abortion procedure.
    I’ve stretched the parameters to include the recent South…

  4. Comment du jour at I Blame The Patriarchy

    [...] “I wish I had a button I could push everytime someone calls a 20-cell speck a baby which would cause a large slimy poisonous toad to land on their face.” [context] [...]

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