This morning I skimmed a blog I’ve never read before—let’s call it Morphing Into Mama, since that’s its title. I read only a few posts, so it is possible that I’ve misconstrued the gist of the blog (it wouldn’t be the first time), but I applaud the Morphing Mama as one of the increasingly uncloseted breed of saucy young broads who recognize that they had independent, autonomous selves before repurposing themselves as child-rearers, and who are now coming out to remonstrate that the virginmarial glow of new motherhood is a load of sentimental crap. She speaks authoritatively of sleep deprivation and nipple leakage, and of this indignity and that, and resents that, according to cultural narrative, she is supposed to be “in love” with her mewling infant. Which infant, if he looked when he was born anything like my newborn nieces did upon their natal days, resembled nothing so much as an undercooked brisket.
I can dig it.
Yet, according to this astonishing post, our Morphing Mama believes that if you gain a few pounds or cut your hair or in any way alter the physical appearance of your hot prenuptial self after you get hitched, you are guilty of “false advertising.”
Who might one construe as the consumer injured by this false advertising?
“Husband,” that’s who (that’s what the Morphing Mama calls the dude she married. “Husband.”).
Then the Morphing Mama drops the bomb that will cause the shitstorm that would eventually drive her to close comments on the post.
“Personally,” she writes, “I think it would be unfair to Husband if I gained a bunch of weight and did nothing about it.”
This remarkable statement reflects our heroine’s capitulation to the patriarchal feminine hotness imperative. Whereas she sensibly repudiates the absurd notion that she should be “in love” with her brisket-shaped kid, she cannot bring herself to reject the authority of the Male Gaze. For instance, the photo in her sidebar, presumably of the author, depicts a young woman in delicious contrapposto with a stroller, gorgeous shampoo-commercial hair, and a really hot ass.
The Morphing Mama (or “MIM,” as she is known on the blog) married a guy to whom she attributes this speech: “‘You’re not going to chop of all your hair now that we’re married, are you?’ he asked nervously.”
MIM believes that before she got married, she “advertised” herself to this hair-fetishist as a commodity: a weight-specific brand of sexy conformity to patriarchal hotness standards. Furthermore, she thinks it would constitute an ethical lapse if she were to relax her white-knuckle grip on skinny long-haired femininity. In other words, it is her wifely duty to maintain her hotness. “Husband” signed up for hotness, remains a big fan of hotness, and, as a male in a patriarchy, is entirely entitled to hotness. To deprive this hotness consumer of hotness would be “unfair.”
This is no mere Twistificational conjecture. Of Husband’s fascination with hotness there can be no doubt, for here he is, guest-blogging a “birthday tribute” to his hot wife: “Suffice it to say she’s proven to be intelligent, resilient, inquisitive, and loyal. Oh, and beautiful and hot, as the ‘butt shot’ confirms. And the best thing is, all this has only gotten better with age. So happy 35th birthday MIM. I’m looking forward to another 35 with you. By then you’ll be REALLY hot! Oh, and probably also still intelligent, resilient, inquisitive, and loyal. But at least hot.”
And, lard-jesus no! MIM, who says she “works” to maintain her figure “for myself and my husband,” goes on to suggest that a person’s weight is indicative, not, as a rational person might imagine, of how much she weighs, but of her degree of “self-respect.” Overweight people, MIM asserts, are probably “depressed.” She asks, “can you imagine still maintaining the same level of physical attraction for your mate when he’s depressed?”
So it’s not fat people who are unattractive, but depressed people?
Nice try, but it’s a well-documented fact that depressed people are among the world’s most fascinating. Some of the best sex I ever had was with my girlfriend who would soon shoot herself to death with a giant gun. I’m no psychiatrist, but it that’s not depressed, I don’t know what is.
The thing is, in a world where women are the sex class (by which I mean Planet Earth), even morphing mamas are expected to display themselves according to male standards of fuckability as defined by pornography, and those who fall short are subject not only to public censure and ridicule and fat jokes, but to the ultimate horror: not being hot enough for Husband.
Whether MIM and Husband find eternal bliss in their personal oasis of mutual hotness—and really, if it makes them happy, ¡buena suerte!—is of little consequence to this patriarchy-blamer; it is the larger stupidity of the sexist beauty mandate illustrated by this pair that smegs me off. Check out this agonizing post at a blog called The Homesick Home, wherein author L. has put on a few pounds and now endures her husband’s silent disdain.
“Hub,” writes L., “didn`t want me to go to his office Christmas party, nor has he invited anyone from work to our house. When I joked that this was because I was ‘no longer a wife worth showing off,’ he got very quiet. Saying nothing at all was infinitely worse than anything he could have possibly said.”
L. has failed where MIM has triumphed, but the spinster aunt would implore all women, regardless of the degree to which they have been assimilated by Dude Nation, to extricate themselves with all possible speed from the prison of male fantasy. Feminine beauty is a load of pornographic crap.
[gracias, Lori]
I’m glad you posted about this. I was going to send it to you. I caught it over at Suburban Bliss.net, where another intelligent, wonderful woman is agonizing over it because her husband wonders why, after two kids, she couldn’t still have the body he married, and why she “doesn’t want to stay her physical best for him.”
I’ll just repost some of the comment I wrote to her.
This notion of “false advertising” makes me want to vomit the very tasty rice pilaf I’ve just eaten.
It’s based on the premise of winning a trophy-wife-as-display-object. Marriage is a relationship, not a purchase. Relationships involve PEOPLE. People change. None of us is the same person we were ten years ago, physically, mentally or experience-wise. Wait til 20 more years goes by and neither of you resemble the person you were when you got married (even your husband! I mean look, don’t you miss the toenails he had when you got married?! Why couldn’t he stay his physical best for you?! - her husband ran a marathon and his toenails started falling off) Time ages people, physiques change. It’s not an option.
Why is it acceptable for a person’s beliefs, history and opinions to change, but their body is expected to always stay 23, young and thin? It doesn’t even make sense.
Perhaps one day your husband could try doing the 30 things you have to do daily before he even gets a chance to THINK about his body for the day, and then see if he wants to spend even a second of his downtime working out or thinking about how many calories are in a bagel. I bet instead he’ll probably choose to do something more important, like take a dump.
I’m still stuck on trying to figure out why people this superficial want to have children. You know it is going to “ruin” your looks (or at least chance it). You know it is going to be (putting it mildly) a lot of work.
WHY?!?
Stuff like this pissed me off so much I can’t even come up with something to say in your comments, except: FUCK! Shut up already! If bringing another life into this world and then taking care of it “ruins” your body then what the hell happens when you get old, or have a disfiguring accident or get cancer or the styles change to fat brunette from skinny blondes?
False advertising is a man who says he loves you and then makes you feel like shit for having his baby.
Regarding said ass: Women of some races naturally have asses like that. Women of some races naturally have hair like that too. But the kid’s white, and both hair and butt look bought to me. Also besides, being as they are both staunch supporters of the patriarchy, I assume she’s read the fine print. As soon as her ass goes south, he’ll have (and probably take) the option to find another, younger butt.
I just visited this post, and it looks like comments have been turned off already. Not because, far as I could tell, any true dialogue about feminism (oh jeez no) occurred, but because some of the other commenters were being mean to MIM, doubting her weight-claim and criticizing her hair.
Back to grown-up land for me.
This reminds me of a sex-positive feminist I knew in college who went on and on about how important it was to her to have sex with men who respected and adored her for who she was. She started to gain weight from some medication and suddenly started caring a great deal that men respect her for her body. In fact, she would go out of her way to have sex with any guy who disparaged her body. She overheard one guy saying something unbelievably awful about her midsection and she begged him to sodomize her that very night.
As long as self-worth is bound up with heterosexual intercourse, beauty (as defined by men) remains a means to an identity. These women have babies to prove to the world that men still want to pork them on accounta they’re so pretty.
Beware these mothers!
This is a new trend (as seen on Oprah). You decide your kids aren’t that great after all because your husband is such a big o’ hunk of hot manly fullfillment.
I’m kicking myself that I cannot remember her name, but some author had an article in Salon or some such place where she stated that if she lost one of her kids she’d get over it, but if she lost her husband she couldn’t bear to live another day. Next thing we know she’s on Oprah’s speed dial.
Now this is fashion. Now we mothers must humorously talke about how our kids are really little assholes, and pit ourselves against those foolish selfless mothers with big butts and “mom jeans.”
It’s yet another way the patriarchy is dividing women.
I also went to a wedding last year where the Catholic priest waxed poetic for a full five minutes on how the bride and groom should always put each other before everyone else - even the children. I think this is code for the man is the leader of the family. The godbags are sure getting sneaky these days.
there’s fascinating depressed and there’s couch potato depressed. city folk don’t see much of the couch potato variety they have in the suburbs, but it is indeed not attractive. dr. phil spends a lot of time with the couch potato depressed, to no avail.
No doubt you are right, jami, but Dr Phil–the Oprah-approved unimpeachable male authority figure– also preaches that brides and grooms should put themselves before everybody else, including the kids.
I haven’t escaped the patriarchy, but I HAVE escaped dweebs like Husband by ditching razor, makeup, and all the crap that comes with them.
The post and comments repeatedly refer to complaints from men about their partners’ size or appearance. But 95% of my male admirers have liked my hair at whatever length, lusted after my resplendent furriness, & praised my complete lack of makeup. In fact, I’ve heard nothing but complaints about razors in the shower & smelly makeup. My proportion of fat to muscle has been all over the map in the last 20 years and no one has said a peep.
Makeup says, “There’s something fundamentally wrong with me. I must change.” Shaving says the same thing, along with “I must look like I never reached puberty, except for the boobs, of course.” And starving says, “I must be small and weak.” *I* say, “I work out with weights and love to wear tank tops! Worship me and my wondrous fur! And pass me another burrito!”
Straight women! Dump the makeup and razor and do whatever the hell you want with your hair! Don’t stand next to me in the public restroom and say wistfully, “I wish I could go without makeup like you do.” Why do you believe you CAN’T?
God DAMN it, this kind of thing pisses me off. Why the HELL would you stay married to someone who treats you like that? I have no problem with women deciding for themselves what level of physical fitness/femmeyness/makeup, etc. they’re going to be comfortable with, but fuck if I’m going to change or maintain my appearance to please a man! Or at least, the man better not expect me to do it! And that’s regardless of the childbirthing situation. Honestly. There ARE men out there who know better than this. I don’t know why anyone would put up with one who doesn’t. Better single or trying other alternatives than being involved with a selfish asshole.
stekatz, Ayelet Waldman is her name.
Dear Stekatz:
I think the woman you’re talking about (on Oprah and in Slate or Salon or Whaffever) is a writer, Ayelet Waldman, married to Michael Chabon, also a writer. And it’s in Wikipedia, by golly!
Yours, BDL
I have a feeling that MIM felt the way she does before she met her hubby. Meaning that all the calls for the poor guy’s head seem a bit off-target. Maybe that’s just me - a guy - talking, I don’t know.
I mean, within the space of a few posts, we’ve seen the damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t thing… one guy declares his wife hot and he’s a jerk… another guy thinks his wife’s a cow and he’s a jerk… ok, so all guys are jerks. Yawn.
The phenomenon I’ve noticed is that most people (men and women) don’t realize how utterly lucky, fortunate, priveleged, they are. So, even when they get the perfect life, the perfect job, the wonderful home, and all that, they get bored enough to think they deserve even more. Human beings are determined to find an angst or anxiety in any situation and I think MIM is no different. She’s got it all, except the ass she had before the kids. So, that’s her mission in life.
Sure it’s superficial and simplistic. But, so are most human pursuits. Not everyone can be Twisty.
I know I’m not capable of blaming 24-7. I blame myself.
Stekatz says: This is a new trend (as seen on Oprah). You decide your kids aren’t that great after all because your husband is such a big o’ hunk of hot manly fullfillment.
Yes, the notion that babies and kids are little assholes and that men are wonderful sure is going around again. It’s a perennial. That’s the family atmosphere I grew up in.
Says L. in an email to me:
“And one minor point — you say, “L. has failed where MIM has triumphed.”
Since I refuse to alter my healthy body image to conform to my husband`s wishes, I think it would be more accurate to say that “L. refuses to play the game.”
I don’t want to get flamed here, because I certainly agree with Twisty’s views on the absurdity of trying to stay “hot” for your husband.
However, I have the opposite problem. I got pregnant, and it apparently tripped some binge-eating circuit in my husband. Long story short - he has gained about 140lbs in the past 2 1/2 years. When he was, say, 70lbs overweight, it really didn’t bother me a lot. But now, I really can’t stand it. In part, its the underlying issues causing the weight gain that really bug me (his clear need to deal with a bunch of issues related to his mother, binging almost to the point of an eating disorder, obvious health problems from being so overweight, etc.). But the other part of it is that he is still steadily gaining weight. He’s 35 years old, and within a year will likely weigh 400lbs.
I want very much to believe I am not this superficial, although perhaps that is the reality. I really am struggling over this issue, so if any of the many smart commenters on this thread have any advice to pass along, it would be much appreciated.
A comment from “Morphing:”I must admit I was “in love” w/my son immediately but it didn’t mean I wasn’t miserable or hated this new roll [sic]I got myself into. It also practically tore my marriage apart, we’re much better now though.
!!!!!
What I did when I saw my husband sulking about the baby, was I plunked the kid in his lap and went shopping. I felt much better and he got to spend time with his kid. Why in god’s name people can’t lighten up about all this I don’t know.
Of course we never cared about being perfect, so that helped.
Why do women want to be married to assholes like this? That’s what I want to know. What do do they get out of being married to men who think they are judges in a beauty contest? What?
finnsmotel: one guy declares his wife hot and he’s a jerk… another guy thinks his wife’s a cow and he’s a jerk… ok, so all guys are jerks. Yawn.
Huh? You seem to be missing the point, which is one that Sola makes abundantly clear. Women who spend all their time either worrying about their looks or being with men who worry endlessly about their looks are wasting their time if they think it has anything to do either with self-worth or with sex.
Like Sola, I’m a not-made-up woman of non-teeny size who doesn’t much give a shit about male gaze. And like Sola, I’ve met plenty of men and women who find me sexually attractive not in spite of, but because of my attitude toward my body. My self-worth, since it is unattached to my sexual attractiveness, makes me, ironically, sexually attractive.
Beauty has almost nothing to do with frequency of intercourse, as anyone who has seen Jerry Springer knows. Men who think otherwise are often anaesthetized to sex by porn and advertisements and equate sex with status and his own ego. Thinness in a woman is a sign of her wealth, and a man not wanting to show off his pudgy wife is a man who fears the slippage of his status more than he cares about his wife’s health or even her sexual attractiveness.
I’m currently in a very wonderful relationship in which we never talk about our attractiveness. We talk about our health, about our friends, relationships with people, books, movies, but in two years, we have never discussed whether I look fat in something or if he’d like it if I grew my hair out.
MIM’s post just made me want to go talk to or read about someone with a life, a brain, … *anything* other than hearing the Deep Thoughts of someone like her, who is so clearly entirely caught up in what her body looks like.
She is one of those people who believes, even in the midst of their utter conventionality, that she is somehow “breaking the mold” or “pushing the boundaries” or “thinking outside the box” — as if she is testing the limits of conventional thinkers everywhere! I am a mother — YET look at my ASS - it’s HOT!
Now. What would be truly shocking and sensational — what would genuinely set a precedent — what would really be outrageous — would be to look beyond youth, beauty, and the ascendancy of the Hot Ass, and treasure *someone else* for the worth of their mind, regardless of their looks.
Self-celebration / striving to be beautiful: I mean, it’s *SO* been done before.
“I mean, within the space of a few posts, we’ve seen the damned if ya do, damned if ya don’t thing… one guy declares his wife hot and he’s a jerk… another guy thinks his wife’s a cow and he’s a jerk… ok, so all guys are jerks. Yawn.”
Awwh, does women stand up for themselves bore you? What a shame.
It’s very easy to understand - men who judge women on our looks are jerks.
I wish I could say something more positive. This is an addict, an alcoholic, a heroin addict, just he’s using food. He will never be free of it. So either accept it now, or walk. Cliched but true: you can’t change him, you can only change your response.
P.S.
It ain’t his momma’s fault. And if you fall for this, you’ll be next.
“It’s very easy to understand - men who judge women on our looks are jerks.”
Thanks for the update.
I don’t think you’re going to find any people who don’t judge each other on their looks. Man, woman, child, whatever. We all do it.
Even those who purport to be above it, really aren’t. Case in point…
“I’m a not-made-up woman of non-teeny size who doesn’t much give a shit about male gaze. And like Sola, I’ve met plenty of men and women who find me sexually attractive not in spite of, but because of my attitude toward my body.”
What’s the difference between your description and the one about the hot ass? The rhetoric.
The choice to cultivate an appearance that is opposite to the patriarchally-approved standard of beauty is still a form of conformance to a standard, it’s just a different standard that attracts different folks. Women dieting and exercising to slim down sends one message… women letting their leg hair grow, wearing bandanas and military surplus sends another message. But, make no mistake, both are encoded to attract others.
There’s a uniform for patriarchy-blaming, just like there’s a uniform for MILF-aspiring stroller shovers.
Doesn’t make one better than the other.
To Terry in #17
The solution to the problem you describe is, I think, beyond the scope of the radical feminist blog. Your reaction to your husband’s sudden weight gain and the weight gain itself are separate issues. The fat acceptance gang at Big Fat Blog may have a few insights for you.
finnsmotel: There is NO BLOODY UNIFORM for patriarchy-blaming. Do you really think we all wear bandanas, military surplus, and have hairy legs and flannel shirts and lesbimullets? Give me a freakin break. Go back and re-read this entire website, particularly this thread, and try again. You’re not getting it. Not at all.
Also “doesn’t make one [uniform] better than the other.” Better for WHO, exactly? Better for you to look at? No. Women who find their self-worth in something besides the hottness of their asses, which is after all, ephemeral, are much healthier on every possible level.
Yes, yes, “people” “judge” other people’s “looks,” but we are conversing about a very specific kind of judging, in which women are judged specifically by their ability to conform to male standards of fuckability, and hence find their own entire self-worth in their fuckability (or lack thereof). THIS is patriarchal and destructive and anti-woman.
Now, about this “false advertising” crap: clearly MIM thinks she sold herself to Husband, and he therefore has the right to trade her in if her body dares to engage in any aging. If that’s their deal, and she wants to be his hot-assed property, so be it. But there’s nothing empowering, brave, or feminist about it. I’m thinking MIM is worthy of a Vichy Feminist award today.
I was all set to stand up for part of Finnsmotel’s first post, but then he said this:
“The choice to cultivate an appearance that is opposite to the patriarchally-approved standard of beauty is still a form of conformance to a standard, it’s just a different standard that attracts different folks. Women dieting and exercising to slim down sends one message… women letting their leg hair grow, wearing bandanas and military surplus sends another message. But, make no mistake, both are encoded to attract others.”
I can’t speak for the other unshaven women I know, but I am *not* cultivating a frigging look. Good grief. I am being my danged self. Women don’t do everything to attract others. There is, surprisingly, MORE TO OUR LIVES.
I like how I look, so I don’t change it. I am not making a Stand for the Oppressed.
I’m so tired of this. What women do with our bodies is instantly political, while men do whatever the hell they want without all these political overtones. It’s enough to make me libertarian.
It’s also interesting that you (Finnsmotel) seem to have assumed some sort of uber-butchness (bandanas and military surplus?????) in the unshaven. You would be very confused by the short black lace skirt I wear because it spins out so nicely. You would probably be even more confused by the boyfriend who used to borrow it.
“Women don’t do everything to attract others.”
Ok, I stand corrected on that point…
Letting your image go is also a form of cultivating an image, though. I’ll stick with that one.
I have a feeling you all are going to tear me apart, but I wrote a post in response to all the other ones discussing the idea that once a woman marries, her body becomes property of and a symbol of the marital and family unit. It’s here: http://moxie.blogs.com/moxie/2006/03/our_bodies_ours.html
if anyone wnats to read it.
Thinness in a woman is a sign of her wealth, and a man not wanting to show off his pudgy wife is a man who fears the slippage of his status more than he cares about his wife’s health or even her sexual attractiveness.
That’s right. We are supposed to feel sorry for men whose wives don’t keep themselves up. And female predators are programmed to move in and take the spouse away from his frumpy wife. Keeps us nicely at each others’ throats.
If my response seemed rather over the top Twisty (and Terry), it’s because I’ve lived it. He blamed his mother, he blamed me, now he blames his daughters. Fat acceptance is for deniers and blamers.
I walked.
End.
I stumbled onto this site yesterday through another site that I love…and read each comment and sat thinking really hard.
I was once bitching about this guy that I had this clandestine sexual thing with because he was really into me when we were alone but wouldn’t squire about like a prize hen because I was overweight. I was going on and on about superficial society and how fucked up it was that this guy wouldn’t just suck it up and admit we were in a relationship and how cowardly he was and my friend said, “You know, I have NEVER seen YOU with a fat guy.” (I was 23 when this happened and wouldn’t dream of acquiescing to this kind of a relationship now).
I sort of felt pegged yesterday about MY attitudes toward men and their looks…because I have never dated a fat man and if my current very hot athletic man gained 100 pounds I think I’d be very disturbed. I don’t think I’d leave him over it. But I would be bummed.
Does this make me a superficial piece of shit? Maybe!!!
As a very non-depressed fat woman, I resent MIM’s take that Fatness or lack of a desperate desire to maintain a certain appearance so as not to cheat your husband is a symptom of depression and a lack of self-respect. I have enormous respect for myself. I kicked drugs and alcohol which had me down for the count. I’ve survived sexual abuse AND sexual assault and have used those experieneces to help others. I have moved and started new lives without any fear. I have recently adopted an exercise program in order to reduce my blood pressure and am becoming amazingly athletic. I am raising two children with my widower significant other after I fell in love with all three of them despite being a cranky loner. I love life despite the heinous patriarchy we are living under and yes, I also happen to be fat.
YES, I want to lose weight. I don’t want diabetes or to be on BP meds my whole life…but damn, I’m not doing it in order to make sure that my husband can bring me to a Christmas Party without shame. L.’s husband is really a big jerk about this ESPECIALLY since it seems to ME that L. is barely overweight if I am reading her blog right.
I think all women need to receive a copy of the Beauty Myth in the 9th grade.
By then it’s too late–young women have internalized 15 years of being told that they had better be thin and beautiful (because, as Pony pointed out, if they’re fat and love themselves they’re in blaming denial, apparently) to fit heterosexist standards. I’d say give them not just the Beauty Myth before they start puberty, but an entire childhood that says who they are is beautiful, who they will become is beautiful (even if it’s a fat accepting denier and blamer), and they have nobody to please but themselves.
Finnsmotel said, “Letting your image go is also a form of cultivating an image, though. I’ll stick with that one.”
This wording is interesting. By doing exactly what men do–failing to shave her legs and armpits and failing to smear chemicals on her face–a woman is “letting her image go.” This is awful close to “letting herself go,” the universal complaint about women who supposedly pack on weight and lose their sex appeal.
I’m in far better shape than most straight men my age (45). What have I let go? The belief that there’s something fundamentally wrong with me. It’s wandered off. I can’t find it anywhere.
“Yet, according to this astonishing post, our Morphing Mama believes that if you gain a few pounds or cut your hair or in any way alter the physical appearance of your hot prenuptial self after you get hitched, you are guilty of “false advertising.—
I think your interpretation is a bit harsh, especially after reading the entire post. I didn’t get the heavy vibe of Patriarchal Collusion that you infer.
Like MIM, if my wife suddenly gained a bunch of weight, my first concern would be for her health. My second concern would be for her own mental well-being, as I know how much it would bother her, despite my insistence otherwise.
We’ve had two kids and each post-partum year was spent with her asking how she looked and me assuring her she looked great, despite her constant kvetching to the contrary.
Hey, we both aged through the process of child birth… she with a few changes in shape here or there… and me with less hair. Seems pretty nachrul, to me.
This was very insightful and also a great deal of fun to read. Thank you for bringing your wise & witty spinster aunt voice to the topic, because this is the only piece I’ve read so far that didn’t leave me saying, “Yeah, but…” but instead simply, “YEAH!”
Big Fat Blog is okay. I prefer to frequent the Fat!So? GabCafe. Go to www.fatso.com and follow the link (requires registration, but worth it).
There’s really no compelling reason to ever go on a diet. They don’t work, and all those studies telling us that fat people are walking time bombs are ALL funded by the diet industries, pharmaceutical industries and the bariatric surgery organizations. The obesity epidemic is a steaming load of crap intended to make us (mostly women) paranoid YET AGAIN by our bodies so that we go out and spend money. What’s even more distressing is the number of feminists I find goosestepping to the junk science reports about fat and health. I hate seeing women criticize their fat sisters in the name of health. The health argument is a weak smokescreen. There are plenty of thin people with diabetes and high blood pressure and all the other stuff they scare fat people with. It’s not about health, it’s about power and money. MIM feels a loss of power when she thinks her hot butt is no longer fitting into her cute little capris.
Thin is not a guarantee of lasting love or health.
And if I “let my image go” it’s usually because I have 500 things to do in any given day, and a pair of jeans I bought at Ross for $10 is usually just fine to do my laundry, cook dinner, walk the dog, pick up my daughter from school and get my work done.
“This wording is interesting. By doing exactly what men do–failing to shave her legs and armpits and failing to smear chemicals on her face–a woman is “letting her image go.—
Whoah, don’t push me down your slippery slope. Re-read MIM’s post. It exclusively concerned itself with weight gain. If I sloppily equated gaining weight with letting oneself go, and you take offense, my apologies. But, I think the Surgeon General would back me up on significant weight gain as a sign of letting oneself go… could be wrong.
I brought up the shaving and bandana stuff to be a wise ass. Sue me.
heh.
Twisty advices us straight women thusly:
L. has failed where MIM has triumphed, but the spinster aunt would implore all women, regardless of the degree to which they have been assimilated by Dude Nation, to extricate themselves with all possible speed from the prison of male fantasy. Feminine beauty is a load of pornographic crap.
This is an interesting example of The Prisoner’s Dilemma from game theory.
If the “prize’ is to have a relationship with a man which does not obligate us to conform to sexbot standards of beauty, the best possible outcome would be achieved by full cooperation amonst all women to get off the damn train of pleasing the male gaze. This way men would have to accede to the fact of real womanhood and not pressure us to conform to the porn standard. But if there are any “betrayers”, that is women who still contort themselves to the sexbot standard, then the non-conforming/contorting women will be more likely to “lose” since men will still see the sexbot as a standard for us to aspire to.
The depressing thing is that in the Prisoner’s Dilemma, according to game theory, the safest bet is to betray rather than cooperate.
But maybe if we take back the Dilemma from the patriarchy, we can turn it around somehow..
Left something similar as a comment somewhere else as well.
I just have to say that I see a lot of people who have significant facial deformities after surgery for head and/or neck cancers.
If a man (or woman) isn’t willing to stick around because their spouse has gained a little weight, why would they stay if something difficult really changed their significant other’s looks?
It’s not just cancer, either, there are a whole host of other things that could significantly affect the “hotness” (this makes me think of fratboys holding up signs, and it’s about that mature) of a woman. Not to mention age, and we all age differently and plastic surgery, despite what people think, does not return you to 20-year-old dewy freshness, especially if you started getting it at age 30.
Okay, so I’m ranting. This whole concept makes me crazy.
MIM, of course, is an idiot, and I feel sorry for her kids. She should have snagged herself one of those adorable Chinese babies — in any case, MIM’s and Husband’s DNA hardly seems worth perpetuating, although I’m sure they feel otherwise.
I’ve been married for almost 8 years now, and my experience has been quite different. When I first met my husband, I was horribly depressed, and when I get depressed, I tend to stop eating. I was down to about 105 pounds (I’m approximately 5′8″, so this was pretty damned thin), and even though all my friends told me that I looked really terrible and frighteningly thin, I felt good about my body. In fact, that was the one thing I did feel good about — the fact that I could fit in a teensy-tiny Betsey Johnson dress that was obviously designed for 14-year-old Japanese girls. (Yes, I know that this is superficial, but I was fucking crazy, remember?) After I met my husband-to-be, he plied me with food (he’s an excellent cook, and like many people, he has strong emotional connections to it, which I never did, other than the usual patriarchy-induced loathing and fear). I gained weight — not a whole lot but enough to be healthy — and he told me all the time how much healthier and stronger I looked. He also allowed, when pressed, that my extreme thinness sort of freaked him out in the beginning, but he liked my personality and brain, which was what made him want to ask me out. I’m inclined to believe him, although I’m sure it might sound naive to some of you. He insists that most straight men really do prefer women with curves and that only women, misogynists, and gay fashion dudes admire the Mischa Barton physique.
Since I got married, I guess I have “let myself go,” at least from the bullshit MIM point of view — I no longer fit into a size 2, I don’t wear makeup most of the time, and I seldom shave in the wintertime — but my husband seems to love and accept me the way that I am. It makes me feel like an idiot, the fact that many years of reading fancy feminist theory couldn’t make me feel OK about myself when I was in my 20s, but better late than never, I guess. I still have hangups sometimes, and I still have weird anxieties about my weight, but I’m a lot better than I used to be, and for that I’m grateful.
Rene
One more comment:
as a thin, short, un-boobified woman, I don’t jump for joy when the reverse sexism of “real woman have curves’ banner is raised as a supposed anecdote to sexbot standards of “thinness with large breasts”.
My weight is not the result of dieting or any such thing, it’s just the way this body metabolizes food.
It doesn’t do women any good to exchange one artificial standard of female “desirability” for another. It would just as pointless and self-hating for me to attempt to gain “curves” as it would a naturally heavier woman to become thin.
I’m glad Rene’s husband’s desire for her is independent of the particular size of her body, but please, no more “real women have curves” crap!
It’s just as much as a cage as “starve yourself thin.”
How long has MIM been married? Does she seriously think that she and her moronic husband aren’t going to change with age? Will she submit herself to botox? plastic surgery? starvation? Where does it end?
Just to clarify, Robin, I never said that “real women have curves,” and neither did my husband (although he did express a preference for them, at least in a very moderate way, as in “I think women whose hipbones don’t jut out of their pants and who don’t pass out when they suddenly rise from a seated position are sexier than those who do” — since I have a preference for guys with dark hair and athletic builds, I can’t condemn him for this). Your point is well-taken, though. Even though I’m not as thin as I used to be (and I’m still quite unboobified), I sometimes get unwarranted grief from curvier women who assume that I’m starving myself or always dieting or forcing myself to vomit or this or that. I know so many women who struggle with their weight, and, like you, I’ve never really had a problem with mine (other than self-perceived problems, which, of course, are a whole other matter). I do eat, and I eat more butter and triple-cream Brie (thanks to my husband, who scoffs at anything low fat) than anyone this side of James Beard. I’m just not as heavy as most women my age.
I really didn’t mean to engage in reverse discrimination. In fact, I almost invariably regret discussing weight at all. When I was going through my skeletor phase, my best friend tried to talk some sense into me, and I got really upset with her. Finally we made a pact that we would never again discuss weight at all because it occasioned too many neuroses in us and, presumably, in other women. She struggled with bulimia for a long time, and I think my period of anorexia was upsetting to her on more levels than I realized at the time.
Rene
Sorry to harp on Finnsmotel, but hey, it’s better than working.
He said, “If I sloppily equated gaining weight with letting oneself go, and you take offense, my apologies. But, I think the Surgeon General would back me up on significant weight gain as a sign of letting oneself go… could be wrong.”
It’s very interesting that I’ve just discussed not shaving or using makeup. I never said that I’m overweight, and I’ve certainly never said that any woman who stops using makeup inevitably gains weight. Yet this is the assumption that appears to have been made.
About myself, all I said was that the proportion of fat to muscle in my body has been all over the map. That was interpreted as I have “let myself go.” Interesting. Men have liked me at all my shapes, including my pleasantly squishy phase. My current shape is muscular, because that’s how I prefer it. What’s far more disturbing is that the assumption appears to be “Doesn’t care about makeup = ‘lets herself go’ = gets fat and unhealthy.” It says loads about the alleged lack of appeal of big women and how nonconforming women of any type are failing to fulfill their patriarchal duty.
You rarely hear about a straight man who has “let himself go.” That’s because he’s “there” no matter what he does.
>It’s very interesting that I’ve just discussed not shaving or using makeup. I never said that I’m overweight, and I’ve certainly never said that any woman who stops using makeup inevitably gains weight. Yet this is the assumption that appears to have been made.
Ugh - I’ve re-written this several times and I feel like I can’t get quite the right wording. Let’s throw this and see if it sticks:
I’ve met women who have “let themselves go” after marriage out of the idea that they already have their man, so they don’t have to try anymore. To them, the idea of putting any kind of effort into themselves was a tool to get a mate, and once they had the mate, they could stop doing those things. I’m not saying that one has to wear make-up, exercise, whatever to be happy, but it disturbs me greatly to think that I should only care about my appearance to trap a man, and once I’ve got him I can just “let myself go.” It’s not from the standpoint of false advertising, it’s more that *I* like the way I look with a little mascara on and I like the way I feel when I run on a regular basis and don’t eat grease all the time and I do those things for me. I don’t really give a flying shit if someone else thinks I’m cuter minus 30 pounds and some leg hair. Go find somebody lighter and smoother - we’ll both be happier that way.
I even had one of these women ask me “Why do you work out?? You already have a husband!” (Obviously, this was when I had a husband.) I wish I could say that I came back with something really sharp to this question. Alas, I just stared at her for a few seconds, slack-jawed, and then muttered something about liking grilled cheese too much to stop running before walking away.
i don’t know what to say.
i lived with a mentally abusive man, whose little comments about my weight(shortly after childbirth even) made me a fucking lunatic. i didn’t even know what he was doing to me until it was all over but the paperwork(17 years later).
and in turn each of my girls has started the “i’m fat!” thing in her teens. the youngest just started saying it the week before last, and she’s only 10. and everytime i tell them how they are too skinny that if they don’t eat right they will end up sick.
and yet half the time i look in the mirror i still cannot stand my 40 year old gut. yet i’m not really fat.
it ends when anorexia isn’t a fashion statement. it ends when men who would talk like that about and to women FULLY EXPECT to get kicked viciously hard in the nuts EVERYTIME by ANYONE(male or female) who is standing around.
“Feminine beauty is a load of pornographic crap.”
Yes. Yes! I want to embroider this on a pillow and spray paint it on a water tower.
Thankfully, though I am married, I seldom wonder about my own fuckability from my husband’s perspective. (He does, in fact, fuck me, so I guess the proof is in the idiomatic pudding.)
Thanks for taking on this issue, Twisty. I wanted to, but couldn’t see through my own outrage to find the words.
“…(because, as Pony pointed out, if they’re fat and love themselves they’re in blaming denial, apparently) .”
That isn’t what I said.
Rene, you’re right, I shouldn’t have implied that you used that phrase - I will admit the words “men prefer..women…curves” sorta sent me off on a tangent - let’s call it one of my many pet peeves!
I guess we’d both agree that finding a reasonably healthy weight is a reasonable goal for a woman OR a man, and for most people, extreme thinness or extreme fatness isn’t reasonably healthy.
And that different body types can be all be appealing to different people.
Let’s take a look at this from a new perspective. There are things that we find attractive because there are very good biological reasons to find them attractive. We are attracted to symmetry, because that is an indication of overall health. Health is a really, really big deal when it comes to attractiveness, and starvation and fatness are not healthy states. There is also sexual selection, which accounts for things like our sexual dimorphism.
Life revolves around reproduction. We’re simply vehicles for self-replicating molecules that happened to get smart. Culture is the garbage that accumulates when a bunch of smart apes live together for a long time. So purple eye shadow can vary in attractiveness due to cultural changes, but obesity will probably never be attractive.
All animals spend a lot of time grooming themselves or grooming others in their tribe. We do that too only add the finesse and tweaks our brains dream up that the bonobos don’t/can’t. Some people want to shave, or pierce, or tatoo. Groups set the demands. If you want to be part of that group, you’ll do what it takes. So I don’t want to wear a Mohawk, or have seven piercings in my tongue. But if you do… Kewl.
I watched this thread from work all day, slamming my little head into the wall because I could not remember my password! Finally, I am home and can comment to my wicked heart’s content.
I said on Brazen Hussy’s site that what I really wanted to do was slap MIM for her stupidity.
Having had all day long to think about this, and fume at yet another hapless woman falling for the whole sexbot crap, I have to admit that my gut reaction on wanting to slap her silly is because I know where she comes from.
I used to live there, sometimes still vacation there (albeit against my will, and damn if that water doesn’t give me the runs!), and have been working long and hard to put it all behind me. With 30 odd years of training on how to be the best sexbot one can be, it’s sometimes hard to remember that I don’t live there anymore. MIM probably doesn’t realize it, but right now, that where she lives.
But having been there, I recognize her arguments. It’s about health, it’s about caring enough about yourself, it’s about not being depressed and loving ones self.
I call bullshit.
It’s about needing some one else’s approval of your damn self. It’s not about health, well being, or any of that. The notion that she’d be worried about Husband if he packed on a few extra pounds? Yeah, that’s the lie people tell themselves so they won’t have to listen to that internal voice that says, “Um, hon? Yeah, it’s your stomach. Could you maybe toss me a sandwich and ditch the fucktard who guilts you not accepting that the machine needs to be fed?”
And it’s not about refusing to let yourself go. It’s about refusing to let yourself be at peace without someone else telling you that you are okay.
As an artist who draws lots of Goddesses, I gotta say, fer cryin’ out loud, people! There is NOTHING WRONG with beauty or with being beautiful. Being beautiful means being your own glorious imperfect self , skinny or curvy, tiny little short thing or great mountain-woman, whatever. If we all looked the same what fun would that be?
“Feminine beauty is a load of pornographic crap.†It absolutely IS NOT. Patriarchy’s stupid ideal of what a woman should look like, with all the attendant self-policing, the system of punishments given and rewards withheld, and the division and dismissal of women’s power by turning us against each other IS. But every human has the right to her/his own beauty. Assuming the above means that you have given over the definition of beauty to the Idiots in Charge.
Sorry to get all kumbayah on yer asses, but we are ALL BEAUTIFUL.
Gah, this drives me crazy.
You wrote the post we wish we had written.
But you will find more like-minded responses over at http://inkstains.wordpress.com
Including from L. at thehomesickhome.blogspot.com, who has followed up on this issue many times, and I must say that when she asked her husband today about why he didn’t take her to the Christmas party, he responded that she talks to much when she drinks! Which I thought was very funny, particularly because I have been following her blog since its inception.
But you wrote a brilliant post. I absolutely howled.
I had exactly the same reaction. I wrote about it more extensively here (http://commeo.blogspot.com/2006/03/bugged-false-advertising.html) in case anyone is interested.
Most of the comments on other sites about this issue have focused on whether it’s okay for women to ‘consider their husbands’ when they make decisions to change their appearances. I think it’s bigger than simply ‘consideration.’
The idea of ‘false advertising’ implies an exchange relationship where the woman’s appearance is part of the exchange - that, to me, is the most problematic part of the whole thing.
Sorry if I’m being repetitive - I have comment fatigue and didn’t read all of what was said by others.
I even had one of these women ask me “Why do you work out?? You already have a husband.
ha ha
I’ve heard variants of that one over and over.
And as far as pleasing men goes: what can you do if guys are dreaming about sex with adolescent women all the time, as the vast majority of men of my age that I know are? You just get real tired of them. They love their fantasies, so I go my own way & ignore them.
Thalia your work is simply stunning. I immediately thought of The Dinner Party as companion to it.
Thank you for linking your site.
Isn’t it amazing Hattie? Men I know who are my age are with women 20 and 25 years younger. They think nothing of it. I am not talking about movie stars or tycoons. Just ordinary men.
But on that subject of movie stars, tycoons and ever younger brides, Trump yesterday announced his newest child bride’s delivery of a baby saying “I’m young. I keep young. I produce children”. Kack.
You and I (and others here of our age) could have a long, long talk about this.
Nymphalidae: Incorrect. Three random examples:
Large women (”obese” by our standards) were the models for fertility goddesses in the Neolothic era in the Near East.
Large women were the height of feminine beauty in Baroque Flanders.
And they are the height of feminine beauty today, right now, in parts of Africa.
Extra fat means you can feed a fetus or a nursing baby, and live through brief famine periods.
Any culture, however, which requires a particular physical attribute for a woman to be fuckable, however, is screwing up the lives of women who don’t meet the standard (too fat, too thin, too short, too tall, too boobless, too boobalicious….).
love is good, e.g.:
my funny Valentine
sweet comic Valentine
you make me smile with my heart
your looks are laughable
unphotographical
still you’re my favorite work of art
is your figure less than Greek?
is your mouth a little weak?
when you open it to speak, are you smart?
don’t change your hair for me
not if you care for me
stay little Valentine
stay
each day is Valentine day
Stekatz I agree with you about the pharmaceutical industry and the juggernaut of the fad/diet business. But. You may find as you get older your joints, your heart, your arteries and your lungs, not to mention your gall bladder and your digestive system, will most likely pay the price of the extra weight which is usually not troublesome on a person up to about age 40. But it’s doing its damage.
A lifetime of overweight will put you at higher risk (depending on your genetic makeup) for breast and endometrial cancer too.
And that’s no junk science.
“The choice to cultivate an appearance that is opposite to the patriarchally-approved standard of beauty is still a form of conformance to a standard, it’s just a different standard that attracts different folks. Women dieting and exercising to slim down sends one message… women letting their leg hair grow, wearing bandanas and military surplus sends another message. But, make no mistake, both are encoded to attract others.”
Oh I see, you’re an expert on women. Is that because you are married to one?
Tell us Finn, what image are you trying to cultivate with the way you dress? Do you shave your legs? Who are you trying to attract?
Sweet Jebus! That MIM character wrote a follow-up post intended to clarify what she originally said and clear up any misunderstandings. She just comes off as an even bigger stooge in her follow up.
http://morphingintomama.typepad.com/morphing_into_mama/2006/03/its_like_a_real.html
She’d expect her husband to consult with her if he grew a beard? If she wanted to dye her hair blonde she’d clear it with him? Is she fucking kidding? That doesn’t sound like an adult relationship between equals, to me. That sounds like being 15 years old and living at your mom’s house again. I think I’d jump off a bridge if I was stuck in such a controlling, infantalizing relationship.
Is MIM concerned about her falling hotass because husband supplies all money to this disgusting superficial family that should have remained childless? Is she just afraid of being left without money and a roof over her head? Do a lot of women (who don’t have financial freedom…an inheritance, marketable skills, work experience) feel this way? I guess it would depend on how much crap husband gives wife about her ‘looks.’ If hotass is that important to husband, wife needs to get big insurance policy before husband has ‘accident.’
Thinking about ‘looks,’ reminded me…a few years ago a friend and I decided to play a game of sorts (a gender experiment, let’s say)….we were at a mall and decided to play ‘construction workers.’ We’d make comments about the men that passed by…comments about their looks, hair, clothes, whatever. Just like the sterotypical construction worker does during his lunchhour as the women pass by. I believe the male has a much more fragile ego than the female….or we’re simply raised to take comments about our looks and shutup where men are rarely judged on their looks.
It’s cruel to pick on people’s physical attributes. Unless it’s say, Rush Limbaugh.
True. What you said was “Fat acceptance is for deniers and blamers.” So I suppose there is a fine line between acceptance and love, but that line is very thin.
Fat acceptance, for me, hasn’t been about denial or blame. It has been the difference between loving myself the way I want to, or hating my fat body the way this world wants me to. It’s the difference between being active and engaged in the world or feeling like a fat piece of shit who’s too ashamed to leave the house. It means that I can insist on proper medical care that has nothing to do with my size. And especially it has to do with analyzing the lies, phobias, and prejudices that surround fat in our society. It has meant walking away from the multi-billion-dollar diet and weight loss surgery industry and refusing to contribute another dime to their profits.
I have neither the energy (just got back from my daughter’s school play) nor the interest in changing your mind, but I would suggest that you check out Big Fat Blog and Big Fat Facts, two websites that exist to counter what seems to be an unhealthy amount of blaming on your part.
ooooh Thalia, just have to say Iluuuurve your Athene!!! what a cool site!
right, back to the blaming.
Like Whitebear and Sola, I gave up primping to receive male awe long ago. My average look is like today, when in the grocery store to get my dinner, I am covered with concrete dust, have on my work boots and a black, very dirty and too big, canvas coat on and my hair bungled behind my head in some kind of haphazard ponytail.
Fact is, I figured out long ago that in order to earn a living and survive in this patriarchy, one has to work fulltime at it. Primping the patriarchy way is indeed a fulltime job, what with tanning salons, nail salons, hair salons, the gym, the clothes boutiques, the mall and whatever else they do.
I almost ran over a woman like that today with my truck. In a shopping center, prancing from a yellow car was this smallish woman with purple sneakers, light purple tight pants, died purple hair and little yellow handbag and a stupid foo dog with a yellow coat on. Good god and she was heading to some clothing store. She looked at me and kind of pouted as she stepped right in front of the truck and I almost hit the idiot.
The post about the women lamenting her husband’s disapproval only made me want to scream at her, “And you are still married?? This hasn’t taught you what a trap that institution is?”
I took time out to raise my children, mostly time alone and I saw women on a daily basis who would and did throw their children’s lives to one side for the sake of having a man. My refusal to do so put me on the ‘do not call’ list of many women my age. I could never figure which one hated me the most; the man or the wife.
But the men who work for me don’t seem to have a problem doing what I tell them to do. Do you think they’d obey me better if I had a ‘hot ass’ to pique their penises? I mean really.
Those women who support the notion that a woman’s power lies in tjheir ability to raise penises at first glance are the very ones who hide and grumble under their breath about how they ‘hate men’. They hate the power they willingly hand over as they get on their knees facing squarely at the Great Penis God and beg the question, “How am I today?”
Sorry about the misspellings, my daughter is calling for me to pick her up from work and I am trying to post too.
Gotta go now!
It’s so easy for me to read the word ‘fat’ and wonder exactly what that means. It’s just as easy to read the word ‘beautiful’ and wonder what that means. It’s all so highly subjective.
But the intensity of the debate proves more than any words the heart-wrenching trauma these issues raise in women’s deepest souls when invoked. The details of what is or isn’t thin or beautiful seem petty and useless when the point is that women live in a state of constant anxiety about it, even if the anxiety is somewhat dulled by denial or coping mechanisms. And that is not to disparage denial or coping mechanisms, either. Any port in a patriarchal storm, I say.
And just like finnsmotel, I am slightly disengaged with the turmoil, smug and safe in my apparent cocoon of male privilege. I do care about what I look like, and I do mourn my long-lost heavenly youth, but my looks haven’t been internalized to this dire point my entire life.
Even the smartest women I know are victimized. It can’t be explained away. I applaud any woman who can live a life less afflicted by it, and wonder what inner strength or training they have enjoyed to help them rise above the crowd.
The two most frequent words of praise I give my daughter are “smart” and “strong”. I do call her beautiful quite often, but I do it without the same emphasis. It’s just something she is, not something important about her. I’m just hoping we can give her a feminist upbringing.
I sort of agree with Finn, in the sense that any appearence sends some kind of message to people who see it, but I disagree with him, because you can adopt a certain image for reasons that have nothing to do with the message it sends.
I have long hippy hair and I don’t shave. It’s not because I want people to think of me as a hippy, but because I just don’t like the way I get cut up when I shave, and I don’t want to spend the time to get a haircut.
I’ve always been baffled by the double standard of beauty in this country. The idea that women should have to shave and put makeup on their faces just to look “normal”, while men don’t have to do anything, is annoying to me. In fact, if men DO put as much effort into their appearence as women are expected to as a matter of course, they’re mocked.
Thalia, I am lusting after your art. Thank you for sharing your site.
We look how we look. The people that love us will love us whatever happens to our outsides. It’s a terrible thing to believe that someone who loves you now would stop loving you if your outside changed.
Thanks for the compliments, guys. And Pony–thank you for reminding me of Judy Chicago’s work; I’ve got to track me down a great big coffee table book of her stuff one of these days.
Oh, and this is off-topic, but Twisty, the sibling brought Kate Bush’s new album (well new to me) over last night and she has a song on it called “Bertie”. Apparently it’s about her son and the joy he brings her, but the first thing I thought of was that your golden retriever now has a theme song!
Yes, it’s more than ok to love yourself, but I think that condition is rare and fleeting for a woman in a patriarchy, and it’s not only the obese woman who struggles with that.
No. It’s not ok to be obese. No matter how we rationalize.
I see this whole “what will my husband think?” thing on “What Not To Wear” a lot, especially with the haircuts. They cry, they freak out, they moan that their husband will be angry if they cut their hair “short” when all the hairstylist ever does is take off the nasty ends or take out the teasing and the five cans of spray.
Of course, a lot of women don’t need to have a man to freak about the hair. And it’s never nice hair, it’s always got fifteen inches of split ends. But it seems that their femininity is all wrapped up in their hair length.
Hattie says: “And as far as pleasing men goes: what can you do if guys are dreaming about sex with adolescent women all the time, as the vast majority of men of my age that I know are? You just get real tired of them. They love their fantasies, so I go my own way & ignore them.”
Absolutely. That’s the key so many women can’t seem to find; going your own way. I pity them, they happiness they wish for so much is right there with them.
What? I mean… what? Please tell me you are being sarcastic.. or ironic… or something other than completely romanticizing mental illness which is what it sounds like.
Thank you Robin.
No more anorexia comments, either, and don’t even start with the 12 year old boy comments.
I want to lop off the heads of almost everyone involved in this thread. Everyone in here sounds like Mandos, coyly boasting and hiding behind a litany of indefensible assumptions. Humanity is one of the homliest of Nature’s mighty works and we are doing our best to pee on everything prettier than we are. Many would see in this a metaphor for male-female relations, but in any event, it’s violently clear that the thing humanity values in its women is not beauty at all.
It’s obedience! Surprise!
How does this matter to me, you ask yourself. I already know that. That’s why I’m rockin the work boots and the Jeep!
Right, but to rock the work boots and the jeep you have internalized notions of what is and is not female. Like Satanists, whose whole deal depends on having Christians around to provide them with a cosmology and an ethics to run backwards, chunk-boot-wearing gals are still balancing on a notion of femininity which lacks perspective and has been written out by the patriarchy. I like to think this is a much cleaner and less turd-like restatement of Finn’s earlier points. You can’t pretend you are unaware of what you should be doing. We all know you know.
It’s eminently clear that a sunset is much more beautiful than even the hottiest slut; it is also eminently clear that you may do whatever you like with beauty and gender myths as long as you don’t declare that the whole thing is bullshit. As soon as you’re rocking the work boots and the jeep…with a sarong, extra jewelry, and a penis implant… you’re confusing people, and they freak out and call the cops, and your ass gets arrested for public nuisancing or some such. Move to whatever side of the continuum you like, ladies, just remember it’s a criminal offense to step right the fuck off it.
But that’s exactly what needs to happen to interrupt the terrible circular logic of the beauty culture (I am beautiful because people say I’m beautiful… people say I’m beautiful because I’m beautiful…) Short of interrupting it, beauty standards are yet another fearfully efficient way to cut down on the number of choices that people, especially women, have. I think everyone’s homework for tonight is to meditate on why it might be very useful to have efficient ways to cut down on one’s choices; therein lies at least part of the answer to why beauty (as applied to shaved apes who appeal) is such a pervasive concept and so impossible to unseat.
Wow.
I may have used to think a little like this woman did, about twenty years ago, when I was slim and fit and intolerant and oblivious and drama-prone and almost entirely lacking in true self-respect within my own little privileged world.
These days, as a fat and disabled parent who has made some sort of effort (though a work in progress) to be aware of the world in which I live - I also have far, far more self-respect than ever before.
Guess people like us don’t fit into the neat-plucked trophy-wife mold: we’re overflowing all over the place. And people like her will continue to refuse to conceive of two unrelated facts: (a) I’m getting plenty, however you define it (love, sex, whatever, take your pick); and far more importantly (b) I am, at essence, happy, despite the world being increasingly unbefuckinglievably demented and sad.
True story. Whenever my wife complains about the 20 kilos I´ve put on since I stopped smoking (I don´t claim that the 2 things are related except in time) I just blame the patriarchy.
“I want to lop off the heads of almost everyone involved in this thread.”
Sunya’s been reading “How To Make Friends And Influence People” again.
Sunya:
Why are you assuming that everyone who posted in this thread is rocking work boots and a jeep? I wear make up and work out to stay physically fit. I also paint my nails sometimes. However, I also have super short hair and run around in jeans and Chuck Taylors most of the time. Not everyone feels the need to define themselves against a rigid patriarchal standard of beauty (or conform to it, either). Not everyone gets dressed in the morning with the intent of either pissing off or pleasing strange men on the street. I don’t presume to speak for anyone but myself, but I go about my day giving less than two shits about what strange men on the street or a larger, patriarchal society think about me. I’m sure I’m not alone in that too.
Pony said: “No. It’s not ok to be obese. No matter how we rationalize.”
No. It’s not ok to be obese. No matter how we rationalize.
No. It’s not ok to be skinny. No matter how we rationalize.
No. It’s not ok to be tall. No matter how we rationalize.
No. It’s not ok to be short. No matter how we rationalize.
No. It’s not ok to be bald. No matter how we rationalize.
No. It’s not ok to have freckles. No matter how we rationalize.
Rock the work boots and the Jeep.
Cruise the Chuck Taylors and butch crop.
It’s all good with me. (I’m rockin the bald crown…)
Oh, and to reply…
“Tell us Finn, what image are you trying to cultivate with the way you dress? Do you shave your legs? Who are you trying to attract?”
Mine is a basic, boring, midwestern 40 year old guy look, meant to allow me to blend in as much as possible on a daily basis, keeping attention away from me and on others, so I might slip past unharmed. I hate it, but hey, the patriarchy runs this place and I need some money for vacation.
Seriously… My point is simply that, in this day and age, any “look” is cultivated and none of them necessarily propels us a