Comments on: Sacks of the Icons http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 08:19:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Hedonistic Pleasureseeker » Blog Archive » Does Size Matter? http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-21432 Hedonistic Pleasureseeker » Blog Archive » Does Size Matter? Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:47:02 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-21432 [...] (I found this image at IBTP, and Twisty found it at Karen's) [...] [...] (I found this image at IBTP, and Twisty found it at Karen's) [...]

]]> By: Mandos http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18910 Mandos Sat, 13 May 2006 06:33:42 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18910 I'm like a total Cherryh cultist for everything but a few of the asteroid belt novels, which I could never get into. I *want* to be able to say that Cherryh is a genius writer who will be remembered for centuries, frankly, with more general fame than she's managed to achieve today. However good works are frequently drowned out by dreck anyway, so I'm reduced to saying that she deserves it rather than *will* get it. I’m like a total Cherryh cultist for everything but a few of the asteroid belt novels, which I could never get into. I *want* to be able to say that Cherryh is a genius writer who will be remembered for centuries, frankly, with more general fame than she’s managed to achieve today. However good works are frequently drowned out by dreck anyway, so I’m reduced to saying that she deserves it rather than *will* get it.

]]> By: Ron Sullivan http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18903 Ron Sullivan Sat, 13 May 2006 04:48:52 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18903 Ah, Mandos reads Cherryh. See, I knew there was something I liked about the guy. LeGuin's stuff is mostly available in pocket paperback, and in used-books from the likes of ABEbooks if you're in the far wastelands. No reason anyone here shouldn't read everything she's written. It's interesting to watch her work evolve, though I must admit I'm still enamored of the windsteeds -- giant flying cats you <i>ride</i> -- in one of the first, <i>Rocannon's World</i>. Never mind the pieties about <i>noblesse oblige</i>. It was fun, back in the day, to watch her and Chip Delaney go at it in the lit-crit collections. I think she profited from it. I wonder if he did. By the way, we've tried a few recipes from <i>Always Coming Home</i> and they work. Charnas' stuff, at least what I know of, is readable and engaging but so depressing I think even she had to lay off it for a decade or so. Like Butler's Parables pair. Whoof. Ouch. I do remember saying, 25-30 years ago, that Larry Niven should be chained in a basement somewhere and made to invent worlds and maybe even species, to some extent, and then knocked out with a baseball bat until someone who could actually write needed more scenery. And I wish Elizabeth Lynn would write more. Hell, I wish Lisa Goldstein would write more. Damn the publishing industry anyway. Ah, Mandos reads Cherryh. See, I knew there was something I liked about the guy.

LeGuin’s stuff is mostly available in pocket paperback, and in used-books from the likes of ABEbooks if you’re in the far wastelands. No reason anyone here shouldn’t read everything she’s written. It’s interesting to watch her work evolve, though I must admit I’m still enamored of the windsteeds — giant flying cats you ride — in one of the first, Rocannon’s World. Never mind the pieties about noblesse oblige.

It was fun, back in the day, to watch her and Chip Delaney go at it in the lit-crit collections. I think she profited from it. I wonder if he did.

By the way, we’ve tried a few recipes from Always Coming Home and they work.

Charnas’ stuff, at least what I know of, is readable and engaging but so depressing I think even she had to lay off it for a decade or so. Like Butler’s Parables pair. Whoof. Ouch.

I do remember saying, 25-30 years ago, that Larry Niven should be chained in a basement somewhere and made to invent worlds and maybe even species, to some extent, and then knocked out with a baseball bat until someone who could actually write needed more scenery.

And I wish Elizabeth Lynn would write more. Hell, I wish Lisa Goldstein would write more. Damn the publishing industry anyway.

]]> By: Mandos http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18900 Mandos Sat, 13 May 2006 03:45:34 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18900 Why are Atwood's books never described as SciFi? The Handmaid's Tale belongs well within a tradition of gender dys/utopias. Charnas, Elgin, even Brin's riposte whatever you may think of it. Oryx and Crake is standard postapocalyptic fare---good, but well within SF. Atwood and Randians, despite their differences, resist the SF label for much the same reasons. Why are Atwood’s books never described as SciFi? The Handmaid’s Tale belongs well within a tradition of gender dys/utopias. Charnas, Elgin, even Brin’s riposte whatever you may think of it. Oryx and Crake is standard postapocalyptic fare—good, but well within SF.

Atwood and Randians, despite their differences, resist the SF label for much the same reasons.

]]> By: Kerlyssa http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18894 Kerlyssa Sat, 13 May 2006 01:22:51 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18894 I remember liking Heinlein. But, then, I never got the impression that his books and characters were manifestos rather than fiction- I was very startled when I first met someone who loathed Heinlein as a fascist for Starship Troopers. His female characters were ridiculous, though. So it goes. Pony: Yeah, why is Atlas Shrugged never described as Scifi? I remember liking Heinlein. But, then, I never got the impression that his books and characters were manifestos rather than fiction- I was very startled when I first met someone who loathed Heinlein as a fascist for Starship Troopers. His female characters were ridiculous, though. So it goes.

Pony: Yeah, why is Atlas Shrugged never described as Scifi?

]]> By: Pony http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18882 Pony Fri, 12 May 2006 23:13:20 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18882 Hardly at all compared to how I loathe Ayn Rand who was also writing sf as far as I'm concerned. Hardly at all compared to how I loathe Ayn Rand who was also writing sf as far as I’m concerned.

]]> By: Thalia http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18880 Thalia Fri, 12 May 2006 21:22:16 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18880 ae, try LeGuin's "the Lathe of Heaven". Can't recommend that one highly enough. And at the risk of further hijacking this thread, anyone else loathe robert Heinlein? ae, try LeGuin’s “the Lathe of Heaven”. Can’t recommend that one highly enough.

And at the risk of further hijacking this thread, anyone else loathe robert Heinlein?

]]> By: Kerlyssa http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18854 Kerlyssa Fri, 12 May 2006 16:20:04 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18854 As I've only been reading comics for 10 years or so, I was unaware that WW was ever a weakling. She's always been portrayed as in the same class as Superman in the books I've read. IE, the 'attach a chain to the moon and drag it out of orbit' class. Must be a 90's thing. As I’ve only been reading comics for 10 years or so, I was unaware that WW was ever a weakling. She’s always been portrayed as in the same class as Superman in the books I’ve read. IE, the ‘attach a chain to the moon and drag it out of orbit’ class. Must be a 90’s thing.

]]> By: Sylvanite http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18819 Sylvanite Fri, 12 May 2006 13:10:21 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18819 Late to the party, as usual. I always found Niven's characterizations terribly one-dimensional. I agree that the Puppeteers are lying, though I remember having a big, stupid argument with my ex-fiance about it. He insisted that Niven was arguing that the egg-laying Puppeteers were male because they performed a penetrative act. I guess that means that there are no female parasitic wasps! Also, Piers Anthony - *shudder*. Several friends of mine (male and female) complain about about his thorough dirty-old-manness. Wasn't one of his recent Xanth novels titled "The Color of Herpanties"? Gah! Late to the party, as usual. I always found Niven’s characterizations terribly one-dimensional. I agree that the Puppeteers are lying, though I remember having a big, stupid argument with my ex-fiance about it. He insisted that Niven was arguing that the egg-laying Puppeteers were male because they performed a penetrative act. I guess that means that there are no female parasitic wasps!

Also, Piers Anthony – *shudder*. Several friends of mine (male and female) complain about about his thorough dirty-old-manness. Wasn’t one of his recent Xanth novels titled “The Color of Herpanties”? Gah!

]]> By: Christopher http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18813 Christopher Fri, 12 May 2006 07:48:47 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2006/05/10/sacks-of-the-icons/#comment-18813 The answer to whether Wonder Woman could beat Superman is "It depends". Superman has basically always been one of the strongest beings on earth. WW's powers have fluctuated a lot more, sometimes she's just unusually strong and sometimes she's a strong as Superman. You can't say she'd definately win, but it's not a lock that Superman would win either. In a way, Wonder Woman is kind of a bad example to talk about this subject, because she's kind of an odd case. Besides the fact that her origin lies in a rather baffling pseudo-feminism, she's much more independant (She has her own title, unlike most women heores) and powerful then most female superheroes (Batman could kick Superman's ass, but I honestly think he'd have more trouble with Wonder Woman). She's not really an archetype of the female superhero. Incidentally, not all comics are about Superheroes. I really don't see a problem with a library getting kids to read by giving them graphic novels. <i>Bone</i> is harmless fun, and probably more interesting and edifying then <i>Lord of the Rings</i> or, god forbid, a Piers Anthony novel. Not to mention that there are a non-trivial number of comics that are written by women, like, say Rumiko Takashi. The answer to whether Wonder Woman could beat Superman is “It depends”.

Superman has basically always been one of the strongest beings on earth. WW’s powers have fluctuated a lot more, sometimes she’s just unusually strong and sometimes she’s a strong as Superman.

You can’t say she’d definately win, but it’s not a lock that Superman would win either.

In a way, Wonder Woman is kind of a bad example to talk about this subject, because she’s kind of an odd case. Besides the fact that her origin lies in a rather baffling pseudo-feminism, she’s much more independant (She has her own title, unlike most women heores) and powerful then most female superheroes (Batman could kick Superman’s ass, but I honestly think he’d have more trouble with Wonder Woman).

She’s not really an archetype of the female superhero.

Incidentally, not all comics are about Superheroes. I really don’t see a problem with a library getting kids to read by giving them graphic novels. Bone is harmless fun, and probably more interesting and edifying then Lord of the Rings or, god forbid, a Piers Anthony novel. Not to mention that there are a non-trivial number of comics that are written by women, like, say Rumiko Takashi.

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