Today’s unrelated photo: Season’s Greetings from the aftermath of yesterday’s razing of the tar-paper shack three doors down from the Twisty Bungalow.
Flea—how I admire Flea; no erudite dildopreneur was ever so hilarious—actually gets email asking for sex advice. I can only imagine the degree to which such a thing enhances her quality of life. My envy is pronounced. I myself am never called upon to opine on intimate matters. Which is probably just as well, since my reply to every question would undoubtedly be “Dump him!”
Anyway, in response to one such email, Flea has a post up containing second-party information on how to perform a blow job without gagging.
Flame me if you will, but I posit nevertheless that no woman, since the dawn of the patriarchal co-option of human sexuality, has ever actually enjoyed this submissive sexbot drudgery. There’s a reason that deep-throating a funk-filled bratwurst makes a person retch.*
How dare I presume to impugn the sanctity of a woman’s right to the blow job? I do so mostly on accounta I will get a big bang out of the impassioned arguments defending it.
______________________
*Reason: It’s fucking gross.
Who wants that thing in her mouth, anyway? *shudder*
I highly doubt that, at this stage in the game, anyone would be stupid enough to take the bait.
I’m dumb as a sack full of hammers and even I’m not up for it.
What about regular old pedantry?
Is “judgemental” accepted spelling now?
I see it all the time these days, so I’m guessing it might be.
From antiprincess at June 14th, 2006 at 9:14 am:
“I highly doubt that, at this stage in the game, anyone would be stupid enough to take the bait.”
Intriguing.
What do you call trolling from the owner of a forum?
I’ve got no time to check back in to watch the show this week, but every good wish for the health of the trolling host.
I’m a 7 year ovarian ca winner. And fairly continent and sanguine withall.
Not having entertained a desire to even kiss a penis, I’ll pass on the link to technique advice thanks.
I, also, cannot imagine any woman enjoying giving blowjobs. I personally find the whole idea repulsive (and I have a strong gag reflex).
Thank you Twisty for the brave truth.
I suspect men would agree (where does the term “that sucks” come from?) and that’s also why they get off on it.
Confession time: I wonder how much of my heterosexuality is connected with self-erasing internalization.
Hmmm… OK, I’ll bite (no pun intended): how about quid pro quo as a reason?
I’m a hetero woman and I always figured the only reason women’ll do it is so that the guy’ll go down on them when they’re done. Just call me a cock-eyed (pun intended) optimist.
Ladies! Twisty’s spoiling for a good fight. Thank god she’s back in form!
Well, I’ll take the bait, but only because you want it so bad.
Eating pussy, munching on the old carpet, boogling the clam (okay I made that last one up) anything can seem like a chore. I only had a boyfriend once, for two weeks, sometime in the early 90’s and definitely on a lark. So, I’ve given maybe six blowjobs in total in my life, and I distinctly remember thinking,–as I was engaged in one–“So what’s the big deal? What’s the fuss? Some spit and hand motion combined with tongue? What’s with all the complaining from the straight girls?†Of course, I knew I was going back to my lesbotopia eventually. And it was with an adult lark-friend who would not have dreamed or dared to pull patriarchal pranks or punches on me.
I submit for your approval the following proposition: Literal actual cocksucking good! Metaphorical cocksucking bad!
Oh and let me anticipate—all the actual, real, physical bullshit (hair pulling, head pushing, etc) that causes the blowjob giving experience to be bad is because of the entitlement, domination, sadism, kick-the-shit-out-of-women paradigm of the patriarchy. And I blame the patriarchy for all that shit, no doubt.
But you know, in my opinion, the biggest cocksuckers are actually straight boys.
Yrs, B. Dagger Lee
I could never understand how men could be so crazy about getting a blowjob. It’s easily my least favorite act of common sex. Though the messy smelly and ultimately depressing act of anal sex is almost as bad. As imagined in the pornographic fancies of most men they are each uncomfortable for the woman, but anal sex at least is slightly more comfortable for men, though the ick factor in certain of the textures encountered therein is pretty high.
I see either one of them as poor substitutes for real sex, which for me is foreplay and everything that entails followed by the usual boring sex that can only be made great by the whole foreplay and messing around stuff beforehand. I like to be sucked on a little in the interests of foreplay, but as an act alone by itself it just can’t hold my interest. It’s just not that comfortable. Making a woman come with my mouth and hands is a lot of fun, though. It’s interesting how some women like my efforts and others are less impressed. It seems like an emotional response!
I’ve always been a very boring and very loving person. But the blowjob fetish men have is deeply suspicious to me. Let it not be said I’ve never had a good one. I have. But was it ever as good as intimacy? Nowhere near.
Nothing is more overrated than sex; and even if we manage, by some miracle, to escape the frenzied importance placed on it by a paternalistic world, we can still find that our own youthful desires can give it an importance far out of proportion to the actual enjoyment it provides.
I like the joke that goes, “There’s a reason they call it a job.”
But I like giving head. I like doing things I’m good at. I like doing things that make other people happy. I don’t consider it a patriarchal thing because I think it’s fun to do in both directions. I would stop if anybody grabbed my hair or shoved me around or did anything other than moan appreciatively. I wouldn’t just stop: I would stop and find my shoes and go.
I don’t think it’s something a woman should feel obligated to do because a man expects it, but I think that extending kindness to your partner is always a good thing, especially if your partner is regularly kind to you. If a woman doesn’t want to give head, she shouldn’t, but I hope she’s doing her share in other ways. Same for men. And bonobos, who I’m given to understand also enjoy a bit of the oral.
So that’s my impassioned defense of my rights TO and anybody else’s rights NOT TO, and I think both in this case are justified.
Or if not “Dump him” at least “Get that thing out of your mouth!”
What part of gagging do women not understand?
hahahahh.
For reasons I won’t bore everyone with here (see my “Does Size Matter?” essay if you want the gory details), I became a virtuoso (virtuosa?) at said technique during my 10 year marriage. Then again, I’m also 80% heterosexual with an oral fixation. Some folks with oral fixations gravitate toward cigarettes, drinks and food, while I gravitate toward the oral side of sensual pleasure, and I’m being gender-nonspecific here. To each his/her own.
Today I enjoy it as much as intercourse. More, even, since I have a big fat ego and love the slavish devotion it earns me. We all have to be good at something, yes? Too bad when people ask me what I’m good at, I can only smile and shrug and say, “I can’t really say . . . “
Speaking as a gay man, I think it’s much less fucking gross (in fact, *not even* fucking gross) when guys are doing it for each other than when there’s a woman involved. Of course this is just my own opinion, but Twisty has taught me that judgmental sex pedantry is the best kind of sex pedantry, and I wanted to give it a try. Go Twisty!
From the person requesting blow job tips:
I’ve tried bananas, but honestly that was just weird.
So bananas are weird, but inedible foreign objects are A-OK?
Well, she probably wasn’t getting enough feedback from the banana. I know I prefer to get a little feedback.
oudemia: I may be wrong, often am, but I think “judgement” is the more-commonly-British spelling and “judgment” the more-commonly-American spelling, with the adjectives following the nouns in form. If I’m right about that then it’s wrong in the same way “colour” is wrong in this country: wrong for a college essay, not really wrong in casual use.
>Flame me if you will, but I posit nevertheless that no woman, since the dawn of the patriarchal co-option of human sexuality, has ever actually enjoyed this submissive sexbot drudgery. There’s a reason that deep-throating a funk-filled bratwurst makes a person retch.*
No flaming - why should there be? It’s just a posit and it’s incorrect, in my case. But how is one supposed to know every “woman, since the dawn…of human sexuality”?
This straight woman loves giving head, has never gagged, and regularly practiced on the 2 serious partners I had earlier in my life (they spoiled me by having large penises - lucky me). It just happened - I was taught well. They were lucky, I was too. My 2nd partner regularly reciprocated and he loved it.
But that’s just me - and many others don’t like it. That’s fine and to that, I say: to each her own.
Be there a woman with soul so dead, she actually enjoys giving head? Apparently, yes. And how.
I don’t get the comment about bjs actually not feeling good. Cunnilingus feels good; I don’t see why the same wouldn’t be true of bjs. It’s wet, it’s soft, and you have more control over it than you do of your cunt. Makes sense to me.
That said, from the pov of the giver, sometimes it sucks, sometimes it’s fun. No, the act itself, apart from any emotional content isn’t fun–after all, it’s not like ppl go around sucking on–I can’t think of a neutral object, but anyway, a phallic object of some sort–just as a hobby. The fun part is the sense of mastery and being in charge of making someone go weak at the knees. I assume this is a big part of what’s fun about cunnilingus, too? Blow jobs that are about “do me baby” are, in fact, really fucking awful and irritating, and irritating people is not a good way to get a good blow job.
I wasn’t gonna respond, but hey, anything to amuse Twisty :)
Soulless? Mighty presumptuous, Puffin. Then again, so is generalizing about every woman on the planet: That we do enjoy, should enjoy, or should not enjoy, well, just about anything.
I had to remove about twelve ellipses before hitting the “blame” button.
Well, I think the best way to give head (if one can be bothered) is if the guy is firmly tied down. And since not many guys are cool enough to enjoy being firmly tied down, well, I haven’t had much chance to fully work out my theory.
Let me add my thanks as well, Twisty. It’s high time someone said cocksucking is an acquired taste and not for everyone (because it is gross most of the time).
Amen, Dr. B. Anything to amuse Twisty.
Can’t it be said that oral sex in general, whether it be fellatio or cunnilingus, is excellent for the receiver and kind of a drag for the provider?
Although, perhaps providing cunnilingus is less problemmatic than providing fellatio. Hmmm. Bisexuals where are you?! We need some experts! Come on, give us a comparative analysis!
Agreeing with mayerson there re: tying down, though i prefer to just hold him down firmly.
Also, the way i’ve explained it when someone asked me, “Why would you want to do that for me? Are you sure i’m not making you do it? What makes it OK for you to do?” is that, quite simply, i could be using force and power, yet here is an opportunity to extend gentleness in a pleasurable way. To get someone to orgasm just by being gentle and comfortable, without rushing or pushing, is an extreme turnon. It is, to me, like making someone come by kissing them. Which, you have to admit, is HOT.
“Though the messy smelly and ultimately depressing act of anal sex is almost as bad.”
God. I hope you don’t tell any gay men that. Wait, you just have.
Anyhow. I think there are a great many things that can be said, most of which already have. One thing from a conversation i had recently was about the power dynamic. There is the hairpulling, violent image, and i don’t feel i need to detail the obvious problematics there. BUt as was pointed out to me by a wise friend, how many women actually get to have a vagina dentata? There is the possibility to perceive power in the act of giving, trust/dependance in the act of receiving. All this, of course, depends on the dynamics of the rest of the relationship. Anything, even the awesomely good, can be taken to bad ends by the Patriarchy.
This may only serve as a data point, but as a male, I do not like receiving blowjobs. Mostly because of the teeth thing, but also because I feel it’s unfair for me to expect a woman to orally pleasure me if I can’t reciprocate (and I can’t).
I don’t understand why so many guys are so gung-ho about them. It seems so…dull.
There comes a point when spitting one’s water all over the computer becomes hazardous. I believe I reached that point while reading this post, Twisty. Rock on!
Yeah, but we don’t go around smushing our mouths against mouth-shaped objects, either, and plenty of people seem to find kissing fun.
I like kissing and licking and sucking. I like it because it’s fun for the person I’m doing it with, and I like it because it’s fun for me. Why would someone want a cock in his or her mouth? Might as well ask why someone would want a tongue in his or her mouth, or an earlobe, or a nipple.
Without shame the man I like knows and avows the deliciousness of his sex. Without shame the woman I like knows and avows hers.
Uh, bi girl checking in? Girls are definitely more fun, but also more individualistic and therefore trickier to please, and more tiring. (Men? Whoop! And it’s over!)
Once upon a time I was given an opportunity to partake in a very pleasuraable but oh-so-illegal mind-altering substance. That was the night I discovered my lips were the most sensitive part of my body. Yup, even more sensitive than my clitoris (and believe me, I checked!). It blew my mind, but the next day, I thought, HUH. That explains a LOT! I don’t know if this makes me some kind of a mutant or what. Just know that women like us do exist.
As mentioned above by two others, if you want to enjoy men more, maintin complete control of the event. Don’t even let him touch the top of your head. Not to suggest anyone should do something they don’t like, but for those quiet lurkers out there who DO want to enjoy it more, it really does help.
Actually, “maintain complete control of the event” is good advice when dealing with men at all, period.
As another person whose gone down on both boys and girls- girls are easier on the jaw but take longer. Boy’s will leave you with slightly numb lips while girls will leave you with a little raw spot on the underside of your tounge (where it scrapes your teeth).
I love the ego trip I get when I make a boy’s (or girl’s)knees shake and leave him stuttering and stammering afterwards.
As for anyone who would push down or pull hair during- I have their most sensitive object inbetween my teeth and am not afraid to bite if they get out of hand.
I have always wondered about that, and also if sexual orientation were a question of choice would anyone choose men? On purpose?
“In the body’s ghetto
never to go despising the asshole
nor the useful shit that is our clean clue
to what we need. Never to despise
the clitoris in her least speech.
Never to despise in myself what I have been taught
to despise. Nor to despise the other.
Not to despise the it. To make this relation
with the it : to know that I am it.”
–Muriel Rukeyser (”Despisals”)
I’d definitely choose lesbian, if I could. God knows I keep coming to this site, trying to talk myself into the switch. I hear there’s a free toaster involved?
“Although, perhaps providing cunnilingus is less problemmatic than providing fellatio. Hmmm. Bisexuals where are you?! We need some experts!”
I’ve done both, and I’m done with fellatio. Pushing something roughly the size of a cucumber repeatedly into my mouth for about as long as a guy thinks a bj ought to last, then, when the gag reflex is entirely stimulated, depositing a oddly-textured, foul-tasting wad of warm gook into my mouth — nuh, uh. I’m done.
Cunnilingus, on the other hand, is warm and soft and wet and sweet.
With the last fews guys I’ve dated, I’ve told them that I will discuss the possibility of giving them a bj, just as soon as they give a bj to another man, so they can fully understand what it is they’re asking of me. So far, no takers.
I feel it’s my duty to share the following information with as many women as possible. Granted I’ve heard it more when I was younger than my late 20s, but many women have bragged to me that they’ve been told by men they are the best blowjob givers ever.
It’s a lie, a calculated lie intended to make you feel so proud of your magnificent cocksucking abilities that you eagerly wish to show them off again and again.
How do I know it’s a lie? Because the first time I heard it at 16 I beemed with pride and wanted to remind my much older boyfriend just how precociously talented I was, and I was not a good blowjob giver at 16.
After my teenage ears heard it from a few other, always older boyfriends (yeah, I thought I was real kool like that; dumbass) I caught on. A conversation years later with a male freind of mine confirmed the “Oh baby, you’re the bestest at that!” prick-licking trick.
Now see, I used both hands, lots of spit, and I really didn’t let anything go further back than my first molar. I was strictly a front of the mouth girl. And jizm just tasted like salty spit milk to me. But I did still go back to lesbopotamia, so perhaps I am no judge at all.
IF you do sign up, hedonistic, make sure you sign up for the Drama-free interest-bearing account.
I never liked getting oral sex either. I can’t stand the idea of all his nasty mouth germs invading my precious tooter.
Oh I was all ready to have my evening meal but I just popped here to check on Twisty….I fear I shall be going hungry tonight. Thanks for that then. (!) (ps. BJ = gross out.)
You say it’s an unrelated photo, but I’d just as soon practice on that Santa as on a banana. Not gonna happen.
Is this equivalent to suggesting that if sexual orientation were a question of choice, most men would be better off getting sex-change operations?
Another girl who has done both checking in. I hate giving blowjobs but I rather like performing cunnilingus. Seconding Red Queen’s statement that women are easier on the jaw but take longer, though. For the record I consider myself about 60% straight, as I enjoy straight up p-v intercourse, as long as it’s in interesting positions, and my current partner is male. If anything should happen to this relationship, however, I’m probably moving over to lesbopotamia.
Well, the “my lips are the most sensual part of my body” argument is thus far the most convincing pro-bj stance I’ve heard and I think that says a lot. I don’t know how many women would place their oral lips above other body parts when it comes to the experiencing of sexual pleasure, however. But hey, lucky for the dude who is getting a blow job from such a gal. More power to both of ya.
As for the more predominant argument of “I like the way I can make his knees quiver by using my mouth” I have to ask, are you serious? That’s what is appealing about blow jobs to you? That you can make a guy weak in the knees by sucking his dick?
Because here’s the thing - a hungry dog and a spoonful of peanut butter will do the same thing. A properly lubed “fleshlight” or vacuum cleaner hose will do the same thing. Hell, a strategically placed hot tub jet will DO THE EXACT SAME THING. Guys like women to think that blow jobs are more art than science because then women get all proud and empowered and shit and decide that giving guys head is the next best thing to owning your own cosmetics company. But let’s get real. You’re sucking what DOES amount to a “funk-filled Bratwurst” which nature designed to blow a load with most any kind of lubricated friction.
Here’s what I think is going on. Women want to be valued and appreciated by men. Men like their dicks sucked. So, women engage in sucking dick and those who do not consider their mouths to be an erogenous zones convince themselves it’s pleasurable because it gives them so much “power.” And sadly, in this Patriarchal shithole world of ours, blow jobs are the equivalent of power for many women.
But that doesn’t mean you have to swallow cum and tell us all it’s caviar. At best it’s something nice to do for a guy whom you care about. At worst, it’s another humiliating compromise of dignity that women do to please men and then tell each other how much they fucking love it and how damned empowering/pleasurable it is.
After Puffin’s post, I’d say it’s time to sit back and break out the fake microwavable popcorn!
I just come for the articles.
I’m with tuckova — making your partner happy is good. Otherwise, I can’t see much point to the ol’ two-person sexual hokey-pokey, because playing with my own toys is much more direct and less complicated.
I don’t think blowjobs are empowering, anymore than french kissing is empowering. It’s not my favorite sexual act ever, but just as long as the guy isn’t a jerk(keep your penis still or you are a terrible person) I’m ok with it.
If only Monica Lewinsky could have read this thread (dot dot dot)
If Twisty gets a big bang out of impassioned arguments defending blowjobs, then impassioned arguments she shall have. I posit that oral sex (including the dreaded bj) is inherently detrimental to the Patriarchy.
Now, most women have the misfortune to be straight (dammit!) and therefore have relationships with men (sigh.) So we’re stuck having some kind of sex with the bratwurst-wielders. I would argue that oral sex is more anti-Patriarchy than intercourse for two reasons:
1. Isn’t it true that more women orgasm from oral sex than intercourse? I think I read that somewhere, and I tried to look it up, but I couldn’t come up with a search term that resulted in statistics rather than, um, other things.
2. Oral sex doesn’t result in pregnancy, the burden of which falls pretty much entirely on women, and which is getting harder to take care of, with all the godbags in charge.
Of course, a world replete with cunnilingus and lacking in fellatio might suit some, but since a relationship is a partnership, and some of us actually like these funk-producers we’re partnered with, I’d say that reciprocal oral sex is the way to go.
Up with blow jobs! Down with patriarchy!
I agree with Bitch PhD and with Brooklynite, why should blow jobs naturally be unpleasant? If both parties choose to do it and how to do it - just as sex should be generally - where’s the difference to any other form of caressing?
“I have always wondered about that, and also if sexual orientation were a question of choice would anyone choose men? On purpose?”
The question you’re asking is quite offending. You’re suggesting that if no-one were fixed on men by nature, no-one may find men loveable. Hello??
If one wasn’t born with a sexual orientation, why would one choose an orientation in the first place? It would be perfectly sufficing to choose individuals to love/have sex.
I have to say, I actually like giving blowjobs. Sure, it’s not my favorite hobby or anything, but I do like it. (Of course, I don’t have a gag reflex at all, so that might help.)
I’m surprised Flea didn’t mention the simplest, tried-and-true advice for surpassing a gag reflex while deep-throating. For anyone who’s interested, here it is: before going down on a guy, spray your throat with some of that sore-throat spray. It will numb your throat so, no gaggy.
You’re welcome. Heh.
Shit, now you’ve ruined bratwursts for me.
Oops, forgot to add this.
As a bisexual female, I must say that–although I enjoy both–I actually prefer giving blowjobs to performing cunnilingus.
won’t the chloraseptic make the thingy numb too?
BJ’s on their own, done in whatever position is most comfortable for you, are not a big turn-on, but they are kind of fun, in the same way that popsicles are basically about having fun with your mouth and not about being a tasty treat. And 69 is really fun with someone you like - in that case I’m usually the one to just give up & focus on my own pleasure first, and nobody has ever had a problem with that (or they’ve never told me so, anyway).
The tip-off on what BJ’s are really about for a lot of guys, though, is the ones who want you to also make eye contact while doing it. What the hell?! I’ve seen porn photos where the woman is really rolling her eyes towards the viewer of the photo, not the bratwurst-wielder, and I’m sure it’s these pics that make men think it’s somehow sexy to see your eyes at the same time. And what that’s about is you acknowledging his dominance, no question. Any sort of head grabbing is right out, but for a little while there I thought the request for eye-rolling was a quirk I could tolerate. Blech, never again.
I personally haven’t tried this trick, since I don’t have a gag reflex, but my guess is that to counter this potential side effect, the guy would wear a condom, or the woman (or man) would wait a few minutes after spraying the chloraseptic so that it would “soak in” and therefore have less of a chance of numbing the fella’s winkie.
I guess it just depends on the person. A lousy lay is a lousy lay no matter what gender they are. I would have answered that I didn’t like giving guys head in my younger days,but what a difference a few years and a few skilled lovers makes. To me, hetero foreplay includes oral for both or it’s not really foreplay. 69 especially, both of you making the other hotter and wetter so that when you finally do join, it’s that much better.
But for you Twisty, I’ll admit, girls are much more fun to give head to. It’s more complicated/rewarding, there’s more sweet spots and more creative opportunities. There’s things you can do with a clit that just can’t happen with a bratwurst.
While I don’t think fellatio is inherently degrading, I think that porn has given it a lot of bad connotations which is why I think a lot of guys like getting head. Well, that and it feels good. I have no insights as to why a woman might actually enjoy fellating a man, but one female friend of mine said that she enjoyed the intimacy of the whole thing. And to buff my credentials as a super-groovy sensitive liberal pro-feminist dude, I’ve never actually asked for oral sex. I’d like my free cookie sent in the mail, thank you.
Hm. I’m a muffdiver and I enjoy going down on the wifey’s strap-on quite a bit, as does she. Does that count? Is it still fucking gross if said head-receiving appliance doesn’t get sweaty or squirt anything? Am I still a submissive sexbot? Fingers crossed that the answer is yes.
It was not until after I struck the blame button that I realized the astonishing number of ways in which my remark could be misunderstood. It was an idle thought from an idle brain. I was just wondering about how the patriarchy promotes what is attractive and desirable.
*waves hands* Another bi girl here. One that quite likes giving head, to people of either gender. It should be said, though, that some people are just not pleasant to go down on. I’ve encountered this with both men and women, and it’s often a behaviour thing.
I’m a bit of an aberrant example, though, as I was gay for quite some time before I discovered I liked boys as well. It just seemed natural to me to keep using my mouth and hands as much with boys as I did with girls. There’s also the fact that in PIV sex, I tend to get… erm… very easily carried away. It’s easier for me to concentrate on pleasuring my partner (which, frankly, we should both/all be doing at at least SOME point in the act) if I’m not receiving stimulation myself.
I think something that’s being missed a lot is something that the advice person pointed out… “giving head” and “deep throating” are two very different things. Licking, kissing and sucking any part of my partner’s clean, sexy body is awesome. Ramming things into the back of my throat, even in the absence of a strong gag reflex, is not on. It’s also a really good way to ensure you won’t be in my bed again.
Heh. This thread cracks me up. :)
That’s it. You are totally doing the next e-mailbag.
I’m with tuckova; I like to please and be pleased by my partner. Not only that, but I was a thumbsucker into my teens, so maybe it seemed less weird to me than to people who weren’t.
One of the big problems I have with blow jobs is there is no eye contact and little body contact and it’s just a very unintimate feeling thing. So the whole porn convention of women looking up at men is actually much nicer to my mind than the sight of the top of a woman’s head bobbing up and down. The visual needs of men in sex are a very controversial issue on a feminist website, though. But to look into the eyes of someone you love during any sex act is much better.
I had to laugh at all the posts about how fast blow jobs are. Even as a teenager it took forever for me to climax with a woman’s mouth. It was totally embarrassing back then, too. It took me a while to figure out that I wasn’t too crazy about blowjobs.
Has anyone tried Peach Creek Farm German Sausage? It’s DELICIOUS !!! Seriously.
Moving on: If you are IN LOVE with somebody, it’s ALL F*U*N. Love is crazy.
The only DISGUSTING thing about giving head is giving head to someone you don’t WANT to give head to. Now that might be everybody, or not. If you are a lesbian, why of COURSE that would be all MEN. But if you are IN LOVE with a man, and just seeing him across the room makes your heart shudder, and all that jive, it isn’t disgusting.
I myself am not a huge fan of the cumming in your mouth thing. It’s not the worst thing ever, but I would put it on a par with having someone spit a loogy in your mouth. It’s not the same as the saliva traded in Kissing. There is a LOT more of it. Many men in my experience seem to feel that there is some kind of emotional issue at stake with the swallowing cum thing as opposed to spitting it out. Sometimes they seem to feel quite emotional about it. Men?
Would ANYONE shoose to be with a man if they weren’t predisposed to desire them? Well SOME men. There are a handful of TOTALLY KICK ASS guys OUT THERE !! An Entire Handful !! I think the majority of women would prefer to be with a woman, if they had a choice about who to desire, though. (Who among you hasn’t dreamt of how wonderful it would be to have a wife?) My Mom used to ask me very seriously if I were a Lesbian, and I would seriously answer, “Mom, If i EVER fall in LOVE with a Woman, believe me I’d switch in an instant. Because it would be SO MUCH EASIER!! (I realize that this is a generalization based in ignorance. Might not be ANY easier!). But something about our genes or early socialization determines who we fall in love with. ALthough I know many people who have fallen in love with both men and women.
“Men? Whoop! And it’s over!”
!!!! You evidently haven’t done some of the guys I have. The nightmare of blowjobs that just go on and on and on with no end in sight….makes my jaw sore just thinking about it. (this is a very good reason never to go down on a guy who’s had a lot to drink)
IMO, whether or not giving blowjobs is disgusting depends entirely on the guy. Firstly, of course, is his level of personal hygiene. Then there’s the fact that some people’s individual natural smells are sensual and others are nauseating, regardless of actual cleanliness. And, as many have already said, there’s the guy’s personality.
In the past 15 years, I’ve given precious few blowjobs, so I’d never say they were especially important or pleasurable for me. But every once in a while, when I’m in the right mood, it is kind of fun to do.
I started learning to give head as reciprocation for incredible oral pussy attention. I discovered that I like it as long as it is all under my control. I find it erotic to work the joystick for power and control if nothing else. There are also scent and firmness and other response clues I enjoy.
The porn industry has most certainly stupidified things to the nth degree. Who wants that in your face? Who wants that down your throat? Honestly. You don’t have to do that kind of stuff if you don’t like to in order to give rather naughty pleasure to your companion. Just like a giant clit, you can nibble, tip suck, lick, blow air, long stroke, short stroke, fast, slow, ice, warm coffee. I think it is all more fun that way - for both man and partner - than that stupid porn crap.
I seem to remember a rather handy thread on Hipmama on “saucy tips” for such activities. What distinguished it was the utter lack of “show” activity seen on film.
I guess I’ll have to humor Twisty though I can’t give an impassioned defense. I like giving ‘em, not cause I think I am the BJ Queen, but because they just aren’t that difficult (women would be a lot more work) and because it’s fun in a naughty sexy way. I have seen very little porn so I haven’t seen the whole “push the woman’s head while she’s doing it” thing. Never had a partner try that with me, and they would only have done it once.
What amuses me about BJs the most is how many articles in Cosmo about them are titled “Stunning New Sex Tricks to Make Him Weak!” and they all treat BJs like something exotic that was just invented by a researcher from the Sexomatology Institute.
I’m had my experiences with blowjobs be very very very bad. My initial impression towards them, before I ever really found feminism or given a blowjob, was that it degraded me as a woman to do so. Seeing as I was a teenager, this didn’t make my boyfriends too terribly happy. After 3 months of hardcore emotional manipulation by one of them, I did it. And I hated it. I’ve also had guys touch my head or my hair during it or start moving their pelvises, at which point I have told them that it’s not acceptable and if they didn’t then get it, I stopped entirely.
However, in a different context, say, a boyfriend who never asked for one, hinted that he wanted one, and outright declared initially that he disliked receiving them because of traumatic experiences with them, I found that I could actually enjoy providing them, because it’s a time when I can enjoy the pleasure I’m providing for someone else. It may be some sort of patriarchal neurosis, but I get off best when providing pleasure to a grateful partner, male or female while not receiving anything simultaneously. Plus there’s just something about moaning.
T, are you a master at absurdist baiting or what? Why oh why don’t I have dinner parties just so you can come to them? I’m sorry you don’t drink because I can’t imagine anything more fun than you in a room full of wasted people you have provoked into argument.
I can’t prove that people enjoy sucking on penises but do remember that people enjoy eating larvae and grasshoppers (both are actually sort of good). Haggis, blood sausage, calves brains. Etc. So there’s precedent.
Some evidence to this effect:
http://www.thesneeze.com/mt-archives/cat_steve_dont_eat_it.php
“Here’s what I think is going on. Women want to be valued and appreciated by men. Men like their dicks sucked. So, women engage in sucking dick and those who do not consider their mouths to be an erogenous zones convince themselves it’s pleasurable because it gives them so much “power.†And sadly, in this Patriarchal shithole world of ours, blow jobs are the equivalent of power for many women.”
Sadly, what you’re saying is probably true for some (or many) women. If you believe women’s magazines, there’s even empowerment in stripping for your man. Personally, I don’t give head because I like to make my boyfriend weak or because I enjoy the power, but simply because I like to. He doesn’t ask for it, I do it solely for my own pleasure, although his is very welcome, of course. Now I am somewhat orally fixated but I don’t see why it should be so extraordinary for a men-loving person to enjoy caressing a penis.
It is unfortunate that blow jobs have a reputation of being ultimately degrading to the woman because of how they are presented in porn. But I think some men find cunnilingus degrading, as well. Oral sex is widely seen as a practice that’s only enjoyable for the receiver and therefore tends to reduce the giver to a servant. In addition many straight people don’t seem to find their partners’ genitals pleasant enough to enjoy licking/sucking them, what with all that derogatory bratwurst or fishy smell talk. Weird indeed.
Wow, what an interesting topic. :)
I don’t particularly like giving head. Everyone once in awhile i will get a burr to do it. And I enjoy it on those occasions. But that’s far and few in between. I had more then a few bad experiences with guys, trying/succeeding in manipulating me to do it. I have a gag reflex and they enjoyed grabbing my head and forcing me.
I bit one guy.. lol Yeah that didn’t go over too well. So, if he DOES want one, it’s no moving, no weird tricks and NO touching my head or hair. And no I will not look you in your eye, this isn’t some kind of power trip. (cause yeah they wanted that and it made me feel so denigrated)
I like cuninglingus is kewl with the same rules. I enjoy that more then giving head. It’s so much easier and I love making her squirm. That feels good, and turns me on.
It’s hard for me to recieve it. I don’t like being on the recieving end unless they can convince me they aren’t denigrating themselves. I don’t like the power play that sometimes happens when you give oral sex. So it has to be pure enjoyment and of the moment.
69 I am ruined on, my ex … was skanky and I can’t ever do that again, I can’t get that image out of my mind .. *shivers* nope, nope..
omg i have to go wash my brain now.
I blame the patriarchy for that one misstep!!
Why do I get that feeling reading all this like I always did in junior high when my fellow pre-teen girlfriends were dieting and spent the lunch hour telling me at length why rice cakes are sooooo good and how they really enjoy eating them and it’s because they have a crunchy rice fixation which may be weird but gosh, stale puffed rice is like a fucking party in their mouths!
Because after 70 some odd comments, many? most? enough of which are from het or bi women extolling the inherent personal gratification of blowing men, well you can just put in my place. Never let another dude complain that the Internet needs to devote more bandwidth to the enthusiastic promotion of women sucking cock. If it can happen here, which it has, it can happen anywhere else, which it does. And never let me hope that feminists can consistently place their own personal desire and choices within the context of women’s overall socialization as sexbots so that they might consider why telling anyone and everyone how much you love sucking cock (so it can’t be that degrading if I like it!) both is and is not the Whole Entire Point.
So I guess I’ll just say, yay for bjs! Allowing women with oral fixations to get off everywhere.
Yay Puffin! Seems women with oral gratification are happier in this culture where the rigor is de rigeur.
PS anybody ever contract genital herpes in their mouth? I have had really painful sores under my toungue and I wonder if that’s what it was. How can you tell if a willy is infected? You can’t.
Puffin, anyone who universalizes their experiences feeds the patriarchy, not fights it.
We all know and understand that many women service men with oral sexual favors they dislike or find ungratifying for reasons of social status and power and that, well, sucks. But I have yet to see a SINGLE post on this thread that says “I like them so you have to like giving them too”. I have, however, seen several “well I find it degrading so all of you MUST be degraded even if you like them”. Bullshit.
I never spent any time with the ricecake dieters in high school. But I wasn’t one of those “well, I can’t like rice cakes because that would make me one of the dieters” types either. I’m an independent woman. I’ll eat rice cakes when I’m hungry for them (with peanutbutter and honey, thank you). I’ll give blow jobs if I damn well please (but not if don’t want to), and I’ll confront both oppressive requirements and reactionary pronouncements upon my supposed categorical degradation wherever I see fit.
I’m with tuckova, too.
A lot of it is about context, too. The idea of a blowjob as the step between a simple goodnight kiss and actually fucking (a sort of “compromise”) makes me shudder. The idea of submitting to a hand pushing down on my head, ick.
The idea of a blowjob taking “forever”, with the lockjaw and boredom…uh, no, include me out. If I’m giving someone head, it’s a someone to whom I can easily and comfortably say, “‘Kay, let’s change up. My jaw’s getting tired”; the same thing with someone whose nether bits are a bit ripe: “Dude [or dudette]! Go wash up. You’ve been running around all day and you need to freshen up.”
I remember a long-term guyfriend, one of the elite few I’ve ever bestowed BJs on, and I remember being curious about doing it to him the first time. We were in bed, one of the first several times, and I said something like, “Hey, let me do you for a little while,” and he gaped at me, his face lighting up like he’d never expected something like that. I remember a time after that, when I didn’t want to fuck but wanted to BJ him instead, and he expressed curiosity about the taste. I told him it’d never be one of Baskin Robbins’ 31 flavors, but that it wasn’t like a *problem*, and he said, “I’d better find out for myself”, so immediately after the event, I scooted up and transferred it from my mouth to his. Highlarious. “Oh, yuck!” he choked. “That’s disgusting.” I laughed at him, saying, “You lightweight.”
I can’t imagine being intimate with someone who refused to reciprocate whole heartedly. This guyfriend luxuriates in the muff dive, adores it, revels in it. Myself, on him: there are a lot of the sensations that I like, the smoothness, the changes in arousal, the awareness that my friend isn’t thinking of anything else, that his whole attention is right here, right now. Sure, I’d like it if penises spouted lavender water or Perrier instead of the less fragrant jizm, but whatever. This person is my dear friend. The BJs occur in the context of good friend-ness, coziness, pleasure, long acquaintance.
Also, don’t do this without asking first, but try “pasting” one of those dissolvable breath strips on his penis. Minty, tingly fun! Don’t do this to cover body odor, because the combined scents aren’t good. But it’s fun, kind of like sexual decoupage or performance art. Also, you can actually blow on the strip for a cool rush, and to authenticate the event as an official blowjob.
But never, ever do anything unless you really want to.
I hope I don’t regret posting this.
Puffin, I understand your opinion that those of us who enjoy (to whatever degree) giving head (to whichever sex?) may be suffering from Stockholm syndrome. I don’t think anyone wants to see this degenerate into the kind of thing that went on when our hostess posted on the four-letter Abbreviation For A Set Of Sex Practices That Will Not Be Named.
But let me advance a thesis: that empathy with your partner (while respecting your own boundaries) is at the core of a satisfying, non-exploitative sexual encounter. Corrolary to that thesis: if said partner does not show a similar empathy for you, the encounter is exploitative.
Head can be part of that. Or not.
Ms Kate, seconded on ricecakes with peanut butter and honey. They’re fabulous. I love ricecakes because they don’t overpower the peanut-butter-and-honey deliciousness the way bread does, as I only really like 12 grain bread.
My issue is not one of needing women to see blow jobs as degrading, Ms Kate. A woman performing oral sex on a man is not, in and of itself, degrading at all in my mind. My issue is the attitude with which women defend such an act as the be-all and end-all of their own sexuality and the vehemence with which they (and you too, apparently) “confront reactionary pronouncements upon [your] supposed categorical degradation” with nary a consideration as to how women’s sexuality on the whole is defined vis a vis men’s enjoyment and how blow jobs are the quintessential non-reciprocal manifestation of Man as Sexually Serviced and woman as yet another moist hole to be filled with man meat and how women are, as a class, socialized to not expect much more than to be happiest while making men happy.
The defensive tone of your post, Ms Kate, speaks to exactly that louder than anything I could say, however. If it really were simply just about your choice to give a blow job (or eat a rice cake for that matter) whenever you damn well pleased, I don’t think you’d need to take the time to straightforwardly TELL me you’re an independent woman. As if such a thing even existed.
LMAO! Tried it. Didn’t like it. Found a woman. The rest is history ;^)
I did write a little paragraph about why I like’em, but decided against posting it in a public place lest I get unsolicited emails from pervs (I almost used the word “provoke” there. See how the patriarctacles entwine us).
This may put me off it for a while, though:
http://pandagon.net/2006/06/15/snitchens-rhapsodizes-on-his-love-for-the-cock-sucker/
Ugh.
The comments here are soooo fascinating. Geez Twisty can really land it eh?
I’ve always found the biggest turn on is a man’s well developed thighs. Climbers and hockey players have great thighs. So do swimmers. Runners and cyclists are too stringy.
A more tactile turn on for me is a guy sucking my nipples while he fingers me.
I’m a blow job virgin. Giving or getting. I think that has more to do with my generation/age than any decided preference. The opportunity has not presented itself.
Loved this:
>Up with blow jobs! Down with patriarchy!
Right on.
Do you know how reassuring it feels to find a hive of women admitting oral sex is not the cat’s meow? Actually, if it were not for this specific individual male I love, I’ve no doubt I’d be a lesbian. My friends might be men, but I’m simply not attracted to them, even the beautiful ones don’t move me, there’s just not the intellectual frission I have with my partner and with women which would lead to some erotic happenings if I weren’t committed to said partner. Sex itself is pleasant, just not that all-consuming. We’ve an understanding whereby mutually pleasurable piv sex is the only sex expected, anything besides is the result of a generous whim. Sometimes I feel like flirting with some fellatio in the spirit of exploration, little different from kissing his shoulder or his neck. Maybe once or twice I’ve felt like seeing oral sex through, but invariably I think of it as a burden and the thought that I might be expected to continue inhibits me from any exploration at all most of the time. Deep throating is right there with anal sex: never going to happen. He never considers reciprocating, and given some rows we’ve had in the past over it, I’d feel uncomfortable if he tried. Generally, we talk for a bit after sex and that’s it, any extra help I need to cum arrives courtesy of a few toys he bought me at my request. Actually, I don’t think he fully realizes that straight sex doesn’t see me through the way it does him, but considering it doesn’t require any special effort on my part to get him off, I don’t pursue extra effort on his. I can handle myself quite nicely with the toys. Like many decent men, he genuinely cares about my satisfaction, but he’s clueless. Maybe that’s part of why I don’t feel I “owe” my partner oral sex.
The emotional issue of whether a woman swallows your come is interesting to me. Surely there’s a lot of different things coming into play here, so my musings, even if I slip up and start implying they are universal, are strictly based on my own experiences.
When I was young and just starting out there was no hint from the few girls I knew that a blow job meant anything but sucking until you had an orgasm and swallowing it. It wasn’t really discussed.
My sperm didn’t seem disgusting to me, either. It seems yeasty. So I couldn’t imagine why it would be a problem. It always seemed very clean to me. I could see how, if I was gay, it might be a sexy thing to eat. I tasted it but I never really thought it would be seemly to eat it all the time since it wasn’t my personal sexual thrill.
Soon enough I finally met a woman who claimed she had to spit it out because she claimed it upset her stomach. I found that a little hard to believe but I didn’t mind too much. It did make me feel, for the first time, like there was something wrong with sperm, though. Back then the whole pornographic spewing goops of sperm on women’s faces wasn’t as codified and fetishized yet. So I didn’t have the disgusting visual cues of gross sperm in my head I have today, either.
Since then it has been pretty common for women to not swallow my sperm, and I’m used to it. I just don’t like blow jobs that much anyway so why should I care? It’s embarrassing how long it takes to get off, the teeth and palate bother me, it seems very detached and devoid of intimacy, and so forth.
But still, the idea that there’s something wrong with my sperm, that a woman is offended by it - my poisonous disgusting sperm - is of course kind of a sexual rejection, and certainly a judgement. Turning it around to that ‘disgusting pussy will make me sick if I eat it’ sounds pretty bad, doesn’t it?
But there is something terribly wrong with sperm. It makes babies, and the whole act of sex really kind of tends to get around to the whole making babies thing whenever it’s a hetero encounter. So even though I started out with feelings of affection and healthiness about my sperm now, unfortunately, I feel more like it’s something distasteful and dangerous, thanks to the patriarchy that ruins the natural ideas of sex and replaces them with unnatural ideas of lustful longing for sex objects to submit to the excesses of violent and uncontrollable desire aroused by the constant titillation in the media and culture.
Strange that a substance that is so fresh, that comes from deep inside us, that is as clean as blood, cleaner by far than any other excretion we have, can come to be so despised and rendered so disgusting. What do I blame?
TP–
Blame the stimulation of the gag reflex that happened before the deposit of semen. And blame the patriarchy.
Strange that a substance that is so fresh, that comes from deep inside us, that is as clean as blood, cleaner by far than any other excretion we have, can come to be so despised and rendered so disgusting.
Do you expect your sexual partners to swallow your other bodily fluids?
Golly, some people will take any excuse to talk about their sex lives.
I didn’t think I was going to hear about yeasty sperm on a feminist blog, but there you go. I blame the patriarchy.
TP:
Your cum is not clean: it has some of every drug you take. So if you’re taking anti-depressants, or testosterone, or a statin, your girl gets it too.
where else in the known ‘verse could you find a discussion where bjs are likened unto rice cakes?
Delphyne
I think the spinster aunt told us she has other things to do, and we should just go and play with ourselves for a bit.
“My issue is the attitude with which women defend such an act as the be-all and end-all of their own sexuality and the vehemence with which they (and you too, apparently) “confront reactionary pronouncements upon [your] supposed categorical degradation†(…)”
That’s funny because I have the impression that it’s you who’s getting all hyper and exaggerating. When did anyone of the commenters “defend such an act as the be-all and end-all of their own sexuality”? All the “defenders” were saying is that sucking dick can be a quite ok thing to do and in fact pleasureable for the giver under certain circumstances.
“And never let me hope that feminists can consistently place their own personal desire and choices within the context of women’s overall socialization as sexbots so that they might consider why telling anyone and everyone how much you love sucking cock (so it can’t be that degrading if I like it!) both is and is not the Whole Entire Point.”
Are you suggesting that because some men enjoy having power over or even humiliating a woman when given head, women in general shouldn’t suck dick or at least not talk about it? What about intercourse with the man on top, is that allowed?
“…with nary a consideration as to how women’s sexuality on the whole is defined vis a vis men’s enjoyment and how blow jobs are the quintessential non-reciprocal manifestation of Man as Sexually Serviced and woman as yet another moist hole to be filled with man meat and how women are, as a class, socialized to not expect much more than to be happiest while making men happy.”
Would ANY heterosexual practice be ok, at all, since most of them involve man meat entering some moist hole and/or men’s enjoyment? If women’s pleasure can’t convince you of the acceptability of any of it, what can?
Your comments apply much better to anal intercourse, I would say. There’s just no way I can imagine that to be pleasurable to a woman who doesn’t fetishize submission.
Anal? Nooooooo . . . don’t start!
Seems all Twisty needs to do is posit something - anything - about (insert controversial sex act) and we’re off to the races!!!!!!
Hedonistic
No on the beastiality. Definite no.
Seems to me like your quarrel is rightly with Twisty — she’s the one who yelled, “Hey, cocksuckers! Represent!”
Would ANY heterosexual practice be ok, at all, since most of them involve man meat entering some moist hole and/or men’s enjoyment?
Not without an understanding that “any heterosexual practice” will have in implicitly unfair power imbalance given that men will always be one up on the woman whose hole(s) they are entering. Such is life under Patriarchy. Give head all you want to. Love it, seek it out, orgasm to the immense please of having a dick throb in your mouth. It’s the whole, “I love it! Can’t live without it! I have an oral fixation! I’d be a lesbian but I just can’t get enough of sucking cock!” that I find a bit trying. That’s not to say that every post here has prompted such a reaction but just women’s defense of sexual servitude in general and the idea that women write in to sexperts asking for advice on how to better deep-throat cock that gets my knickers in a twist.
And I do apologize that I employ hyperbole so often. It’s a habit that’s been hard to break. But I should try harder so what is really just my (ab)use of a literary device is not constantly construed as deliberate exaggeration and over-generalization. I suppose few can appreciate that when I said “be-all and end-all” I don’t literally mean “be-all and end-all” and for what it’s worth when I said “best thing next to owning your own cosmetics company” I didn’t literally mean “best thing next to owning your own cosmetics company.” Oh, and “sexbot” does not literally mean “sex robot” but given that this is Twisty’s coinage, you should really ask her.
What else have I missed? Let me know, Wolke, will ya?
Twisty is a kind and good Twisty - to cheer and distract us in face of her disquieting previous post, she threw us this bone to gnaw on (sorry, had to..), as Pony implies.
And sure enough we’re all romping around tugging and yanking on it like a bunch of pups!
As for Pony’s other comment about “ingredients”- ooooh, hadn’t considered that before. Sobering, that.
Wolke, I think you might better appreciate the points Puffin was making if you re-read the jiz-suck cheerleading posts and substitute anal for oral.
hedonistic, good point.
Bjs are only controversial among radical feminists
But I want to add, in the mainstream, they are rather expected of a good wife/girlfriend.
An extremely conformist relative of my baby (homemaker, churchgoer, etc.) who forwards emails sent me one of “funny things kids say in public” one of them: a young child says “If you don’t buy me that I’ll tell grandma you kissed daddy’s pee-pee” How embarrassing!
saltyC, what cheerleading posts?
“Not without an understanding that “any heterosexual practice†will have in implicitly unfair power imbalance given that men will always be one up on the woman whose hole(s) they are entering.”
What makes you think that the women posting here lack that understanding?
The rest of your post I’ll take as another hyperbole of yours that I cannot know what exactly it’s supposed to say, since you prefer literary device to differentiated argumentation.
Btw, I too can’t stand the servitude of women asking for advice on how to perform better blow jobs. However if there was servitude in one of the postings here, I must have missed it.
I wish there were an edit button. On my last post the “But I want to add” should go after the first line.
It looks like I’m saying hedonstic made a point, which actually I was adding.
Wow, MissPrism! The late Christopher Hitchens sure does suck.
OOOOh it’s oral sex week in the blogerhood! What fun. “Older” here, and I *am* older, too. But I like oral sex, both to and from. And cocks? *So* not bratwurst, although I like bratwurst too.
Seriously Twisty, you did already know that some of your readers are heterosexual, didn’t you? But we love you just the same. Now, go and think about something you actually *like,* cause it will help boost your immunity.
I so love Natalie Dee . . .
http://www.nataliedee.com/061106/boner-con-boner-reprise.jpg
OK, it’s weird, but I can’t stop laughing . . .
http://www.nataliedee.com/121205/sorry-i-dont-touch-green-ones.jpg
http://www.nataliedee.com/061305/the-elusive-borgasm.jpg
OK this is the last one! I swear!!!
http://www.nataliedee.com/052105/no-dont-eat-it.jpg
OK, so I lied. I’m not drunk. Really.
Puffin, the opposite of what patriarchy say it wants isn’t freedom.
If you think people here are trumpeting bjs as the be all/end all of th