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Oct 10 2006

A dog and a thong

dachshund.jpg

Behold the new template. The Austin skyline photo, taken yesterday afternoon by the talented Stingray, is (minus the bonobo) what you see when when you’re loafing at Jo’s coffee shack and you happen to gaze north down Congress Ave.

If you look west, you will see the handy dachshund pictured above. If you look southwest, you’ll see this girl’s thong:

thong.jpg

113 comments

  1. communicatrix

    Ha! That is some nice snappage, sister.

    Even that thong shot is nice in a hillbilly-ghetto way. If you’re gonna wear butt floss, do it with defiance, I say…

  2. Melinda Casino

    I like it! Especially the red neon with the blue colors, looks great.

  3. Tanya

    I work in high schools a lot so I am continually having to endure the sight of teenage girl thongs. High school is a dirty old mans’ dream.

    Nice template!

  4. thelmyc

    I ain’t wearing nothing I gotta pick outta my ass.

  5. jami

    maybe plumbers would wear thongs if the patriarchy would let them.

  6. jbeeky

    I am sure it was an empowering choice to wear a rectal exam.

  7. robin

    Women who claim thongs are comfortable fall into the same self-delusioned category as women who claim high heels are comfortable. Comfortable compared to a necklace of bricks I suppose, but really,
    don’t most butts have a gag reflex as it were, which causes one to involuntarily extract anything which has worked its way in between one’s buttocks? It is a ridiculous and unpleasant sensation which demands to be remedied. Wearing a thong is like having something partially stuck in one’s throat all day long. OK, slight exaggeration, but I tried one once, and after about 1 hour I was desperate to GET THAT THING OUTA THERE!
    Why did I even attempt such sartorial stupidity?
    IBTP, of course.

  8. robin

    Oh my goodness I just realized you added a Bonobo to the photo!
    Funny and excellent!

  9. thebewilderness

    I like the new Austin banner. I consider a thong a torture device. I rank it higher on the ladder of torture than bras and spike heels, but not much.

  10. Edith

    Nice! Now, if you were to take a picture of a bonobo in a thong, I might just consider visiting Austin or spontaneously combusting. Although the “considering” part sort of negates the “spontaneous” part, I’d imagine.

  11. CafeSiren

    I own a thong, and wear it sometimes. But it is pretty annoying, and I’m about 3 wearings from going back to my old maxim: If you’re going to wear something that doesn’t really cover anything, why wear anything at all? I mean, really, what’s the point?

  12. Blamerella

    I’ve instituted a policy of keeping my underwear outside of my colon whenever possible. Besides, thongs carry fecal matter into the vagina, causing infections. Now that’s Teh Sexxy!!

  13. KMTBERRY

    BEAUTIFUL TEMPLATE! It looks like you used photoshop with great SKILL!

  14. annared

    I have an unusual gift for been able to determine dachshund’s desires. I know that he is thinking ‘one quick lunge and that butt is bit’

  15. HalfnHalf

    Oh fer fuck’s sake: How is posting a picture of a woman’s thong with the intent of inviting ridicule and scoff from one’s readers any less of an offense than posting same pic for titillation value?

    I used to love this blog.
    But after so much of self-righteous mockery of Those Stupid Women like this post, I’ve come to view Twisty’s site (and other similar feminist blogs) as just another form of woman-hating. But what do I know as I’m an eyebrow pluckin’, mascara wielding half-wit?

    Carry on.

  16. mel

    A little self-esteem can go a long way, Half.

    It’s not the woman we mock but the patriarchal butt-torturing device she so eloquently sports.

  17. CarolS

    Does the “half” stand for “half-wit”? Because if you read what Twisty is saying, I don’t understand how you can describe the blog as “woman-hating.” Woman-hating because she is trying to point out how women are objectified and treated like sub-human chattel by men? Woman-hating because she points out the misogynist tendencies in media and pop culture?

    Me, I think she is weiner-dog hating. I mean, why else post a photo of an adorable dachshund (sp?) unless you are holding it up to ridicule and scorn?

  18. ShrimpDumpling

    You missed halfnHalf’s point by a mile.

    Woman Hating because she is mocking the woman in a thong. She posted her picture and opens her up for ridicule. Just like the Evil Patriarchy would do.

    So she’s wearing a goddamn thong. SO WHAT? Are you going to change the world and rid this planet of sexual objectification one thong at a time? Or, are you going to focus on the important issues–like rape and domestic violence? maybe even tackle the welfare system that punishes single moms?

  19. Hawise

    Personally, the thong itself (though I decline to wear them) is not worthy of mocking. The fact that with the tats, grey t-shirt and black hip hugger pants she is blissfully unaware that the baby blue thong blows her street cred is worthy of mocking. Standing up, she projects an image of anti-social,out-on-the-edge carefornobody but she sits down and her underwear outs her for what she feels inside. In my neighbourhood, the punks wear black from the inside out.

  20. grrr kitty

    It’s difficult for me to object to thongs as strenuously as some other tools of the patriarchy because a) to me, they’re not as uncomfortable as flip-flops which give me a mean toe wedgie, evoking the “gotta pick it out right NOW” sensation. Still, everybody else wears them in apparent comfort and bliss; and b) unlike underwire bras, high heels and panty hose, boys have been known to wear ‘em too.

    I heart dachshunds *and* the new template.

  21. langsuyar

    I like the new template. Esp. the bonobo. Classy.

    Thongs? Silly and yes, due to the fact that they are uncomfortable and can cause health damage but yet are required to avoid those SCARY unsightly panty lines and otherwise to titillate viewers they are an oppressive products of the patriarchy (but I’m not sure I would count them as a tool, because anyone can easily avoid having anyone know what underwear she has on and therefore make the whole problem moot). I own thongs but they are old and in a continuous process of phasing out ’cause underwear ain’t cheap.

    Posting a woman’s picture? Eh, I’m kinda on the fence about whether that’s evil or not. No face, so its not like we’ll be throwing rocks through her window for exposing her ass floss any time soon. It is kind of opening her up for ridicule if _you_ are the kind of person who can’t distinguish between individuals and the stupid shit women have to shove down their throats (or up their ass cheeks) to make it in the world as an approved and empowerful sexbot.

    Thongs = stupid but no one is going to say that woman is stupid because the point of this blog is to show (I think) how there is ALL this stupid crap women have to acquiesce to and well, thats why its an oppressive system–b/c you have to shoulder alot of weight in the decision between comfort, autonomy, health, or conformity.

    If that girl wasn’t wearing a thong, some other blog probably would have taken her picture to scream about unsightly panty lines. I find thongs a wee bit more creepy. But shit, no one is saying thongs are the root of all evil and if we just got rid of them there would finally be a feminist liberation.

    Sometimes you have to laugh at the ridiculous forms oppression takes because the serious ones, like human trafficking and starvation that results from the economic oppression of underdeveloped nations, are just too awful to contemplate everyday. Sometimes you’ve got to laugh at a thong or you’d slit your own throat in sheer desperation. That is why I like Twisty, b/c with her we get to laugh at alot of things that would otherwise drive the thinking girl to desperation.

    I’m sure this post was just to usher in the new template, have a few laughs about how icky and uncomfortable thongs are (because most women have experienced them, not just the woman in the picture who I don’t even think anyone has said anything negative about in the first place!) Not intended to start another blogapolypse between The Evil Women-Hating Masculine Feminists and the Girly-girl Empowered High Careerists. Or whatever names they’re lobbing over the fence in disdain these days.

  22. langsuyar

    Dogdamn, thats alot of words before coffee. I apologise.

  23. darkymac

    HalfnHalf said: inviting ridicule and scoff from one’s readers

    tsk tsk tsk.

  24. ShrimpDumpling

    OMG! She’s wearing a THONG!!! Doesn’t she know she’s sucking the cock of the PATRIARCHY! Quick, someone tell her, the poor thing!

    What’s next? Grooming? decoration? fashion? make up? Skirts? BIKINIS?????

    *gasp*

    My gawd, we really must stop the oppression. I am spurned into action, thanks to this insightful blog. I am going to tell all those painted, thong wearing women that they are oppressed. They must know!

  25. ginmar

    What is it with these creatures that go, “OMG, I didn’t know I was oppressed! Tee hee! Take that, strawfeminst!”

    You know what they say about icebergs. I guess these strawfeministers are only capable of seeing the surface.

  26. curiousgirl

    Austin skyline! It beautiful, and I wish I was there right now. I also wish there was an ape in that location in real life. The photos of austin make me want to eat fish tacos they’re so homesick-making—until I read the thread, I figured the thong was posted because of the pleasant way the blue matches the blue in her tats. scenes like that always make me think of austin.

    really, though, thongs are many things including patriarchy-approved and all-to-often visible, but they really are not as uncomfortable as all that, at least they are not as uncomfortable as having a whole normal sized pair of underpants up your butt which is what generally happens to me when I wear them.

    darkymac–that was a jerk move. Plus if you are going to go around correcting grammar and usage you should make sure to get it all.

  27. paris

    There is a young woman of similar fashion sensibilities around here. Her thong-wearing proclivities lept to my attention one day when she had suceeded in tucking the back of her shirt into her thong. This led me to conclude that inspite of the crowd she hangs out with, the poor dear has no friends.

  28. HalfnHalf

    Darkymac:
    In one’s, the ‘s indicates one word possessing the word that comes after. Some thought, perhaps, before jumping on the Twisty Grammar Patrol Bandwagon. Tsk tsk tsk.

    Carol S: The “half” actually does not stand for “halfwit” but aren’t you clever! Does the “s” stand for “sycophant?”

    Jeezum crow, no, there’s no woman-hating here — unless one dares to voice a difference of opinion. Then out come dogmatic, fawning wolves dressed in activist clothing.

    Have fun, folks.
    You’ll hear no more on this topic from likes of me.

  29. Forrison Hard

    “Thongs carry fecal matter into the vagina, causing infections.”

    Those things ought to have warning stickers like teh cigs have with this text on it! Come to think of it, I have some blank tees and paint just waiting to help my mere presence make some poor thong-wearer uncomfortable. To work! (or not)

  30. Hawise

    “What’s next? Grooming? decoration? fashion? make up? Skirts? BIKINIS?????”

    I am probably going to regret this. ShrimpDumpling, it would appear that much of this thread had devolved to grooming, decoration, fashion and bikinis, all wrapped up in the fact that Twisty posted a picture of a woman who has her thong showing. In general the patriarchy blaming has been pretty low key and the new template loving high. The dislike of thongs themselves has been pretty high and the fact that the woman is showing them in public fairly low.
    Not all Twisty threads are about blaming the Patriarchy, this one appears to be about “when you’re loafing at Jo’s coffee shack.”
    If you have problem with the loafing theme, then I would advise waiting for another thread.

  31. Twisty

    That’s right, I posted a picture of a girl in a thong as an invitation for readers to ‘ridicule’ her. You guys have really got my number!

  32. robin

    Hats off to you Langsuyar – what you write, is reasonable, smart, and fair-minded. As several of us have mentioned here, we too have tried the thong, and no doubt the stilleto heels, the mascara which gets poked in the eye and the ouchie bras. I for one don’t mock this woman, but instead the sad/silly fact of feeling compelled to do stuff like this to march to the beat of the patriarchy.
    For us straight women, is very hard to avoid this compulsion. We do need to see it for what it is.

  33. ShrimpDumpling

    That’s right, Twisty. Got your number.

    Remember the time you ridiculed that model who protested the modelling industry for their too-thin standards?

    Instead of supporting her for speaking out—
    You said she was probably protesting because she couldn’t get down to weight and hence, she protested. Models can’t protest, right? They just throw tantrums when they can’t get thin enough. Poor little dears.

    That’s was really constructive and so pro-woman, Twisty. Kudos!

    I see a pattern here.

  34. Sasha

    Love the pic although, I must admit, I miss the lovely Taco. I’m just sorry that some folks decided to use it as an opportunity for some holier-than-thou shit. But what can you do?

    Thanks for being there Twisty.

  35. Twisty

    Get a grip, Shrimp. That model was hardly “speaking out” or “protesting”; she was a game show contestant at a party for Vogue. Her reason for disapproving of enforced anorexia was that it is “unattractive” and “unfeminine.” In other words, she was supporting patriarchal beauty standards.

  36. ShrimpDumpling

    So, it’s not a protest unless it fits YOUR definition of one? I get it, thanks.

    She did not praise the too thin ideal, did she? Nope. She protested in a way that the modelling industry would understand. They heard her. That’s progress, don’t you think?

    So yeah, let’s ridicule the dumb little lamb. She just doesn’t get it.

  37. hedonistic

    Pantyline problems but hate butt floss, fecal matter, and the look of panties rising out of the pants?

    LOW RISE “BOY” SHORTS!!!!!

    Fancy that the knee-jerk response for solving a pantyline problem was the fucking THONG instead of the comfortable boyshort. It’s called a boy short because boys are allowed to be comfortable, DUH!!!!

    IBTP.

    Spread the word.

    PS: If you still prefer thongs, Cosabella makes comfortable ones. No, really, they are seriously comfortable, but you pay through the nose.

  38. hedonistic

    Oh – one more thing – - boyshorts only solve the pantyline problem when they’re long in the legs. The “boyshort thong” styles seen in stores today defeat the purpose. I’ve spent wayyyyy too much money learning this the hard way.

    (Hey, I noticed my pattern: I waste my money and my time, and then blog about it. I guess some people (i.e.,Twisty) lead lives that are an inspiration to others, while others (i.e., me) serve as the warning! LOL.)

  39. langsuyar

    Robin, your approval sets my heart a-flutter :) This is really funny because just yesterday on my myspace (shut up) I posted a bulletin about my amazing new underwear and the evils of thongs. Then one of my friends told me about boy shorts. Jungian unconscious or something.

    “For us straight women, is very hard to avoid this compulsion. We do need to see it for what it is.”

    _This_ is why we need Camp Cuervo. Now I just need a business model and a tropical island. The Revolution Will Have Cocktails! The name might have copyright issues, though.

  40. Joanna

    I like the so-called “granny pants” myself. No butt crawl, no boy short roll-up (must be the shape of my thighs) under jeans, and no VPL. Commando is too uncomfortable for me because of chafing of my tender parts.

    I sorry to observe lately in a number of places that some folks seem to confuse the activity of blaming the patriarchy with blaming/shaming women. It’s fair to raise the issue of when the line is crossed, but it chaps my hide that it so often goes hand in hand with sayng mean things about Twisty in particular and then trotting out labels of other groups of feminists in general. Myself, I don’t quite see the logic of attacking a person when you don’t like her ideas, in the name of not women-blaming. I’d take the remarks a lot more seriously if people would engage the ideas they disagree withseriously instead of name-calling in the name of not name-calling. And no, this is not a call to be less shrill or to just play nice; it’s a call to be consistent in your blaming logic.

  41. Joanna

    I sorry s/b I’m sorry. I blame nobody but myself for my failure to proof read.

  42. whyme63

    Um, all Twisty said was:

    “If you look west, you will see the handy dachshund pictured above. If you look southwest, you’ll see this girl’s thong:”

    Anything else that you may read into it says more about your issues than it does about Twisty’s.

    And although I can’t get my mind around the idea of voluntarily cramming fabric up ones asscrack, my chief issue with that woman’s fashion choices is that underwear is called underwear for a reason, and I’d prefer not to have to look at it. Thongs, tighty-whiteys, boxers, or scarey granny panties, it’s all the same to me. Keep a tidy appearance, and keep ‘em in your pants.

  43. mel

    ShrimpDumpling said: “What’s next? Grooming? decoration? fashion? make up? Skirts? BIKINIS?????”

    I sure as hell HOPE so! I’ll join the bandwagon on blaming the patriarchy for that stuff too. Have another dumpling.

    Then there’s with Half-cocked’s: “Have fun, folks.
    You’ll hear no more on this topic from likes of me.”

    And yet there seems to be a lot more “likes of her” out there–and we’re hearing about it, to boot!

    Here’s MY protest: I think that guy the tatooed thong girl is sitting with has entirely too much clothing on! Goddammit, if I can’t see his undies, how in the hell am I gonna know if he’s sexy or not??

  44. CafeSiren

    I sorry to observe lately in a number of places that some folks seem to confuse the activity of blaming the patriarchy with blaming/shaming women.

    Well, this is intrinsic to patriarchy’s well-being: thong-wearing (or mascara-wearing, or whatever) in and of itself is neutral, but once you’ve attached a patriarchal reward to it, it’s not. And once you’ve convinced women to make their choice to engage in patriarchally-approved practices a large part of their core identity, we fight attacks on the patriarchy because they’ve become attacks on ourselves.

    Sneaky patriarchy, how I do blame thee.

    P.S.
    I really do think a bonobo in a thong would be an excellent banner image.

  45. CafeSiren

    PPS: photo question: Was the dachshund pic taken with the famous Holga? Or do you just have a grainy filter?

  46. gennimcmahon

    In the face of the horror and violence visited upon women and female children on a daily basis, do you suppose the patriarchy is wildly clapping its flippers that we’ve been diverted to squabbling over underwear? (I’ll concede that in this case the underwear could be considered outerwear, but, seriously…) I must be a short bus, because I saw the picture and thought, “I hate it when that happens…”

  47. antelope

    All of you new-ish commenters are aware that Twisty does write about violence, rape, genital mutilation, female slavery, and male bias in health/social services/media fairly often, right?

    This is a blog. Criticizing it for not actively changing the world is pretty ridiculous, but if you are deeply concerned about changing these things, I’m sure we could round up some links for you to learn more about causes to support with your money and time. I’m a fan of Pathfinder International myself, because they help make up for the U.S. gov’t pullout of funds for family planning in developing countries.

    I fully agree with the comment up-thread that most of us who come here on a regular basis for our dose of sanity are very glad it doesn’t come with retch-inducing news of full-blown atrocities against women every damn day. As for not making fun of people, come on – name one subculture of any kind that refrains from making fun of people. If we never, ever made fun of anybody, that’s what would really be holier than thou. Anyway, that particular pic is the kind of pic the woman herself will likely make fun of in another 10 years if she has any sense of humor at all.

    I’m a bit bohemian. Once in a while Twisty pokes fun at Austin hippies in a way that strikes a nerve for me, but so what? I can laugh at myself and I can sure as hell easily laugh at people that I have some vague identification with on one or two criteria.

  48. B. Dagger Lee

    A dog and a thong
    A blog and a dong.

    I’m still getting over being classified as a mere hobbyist by the state of Texas. And here me and Miss Patsy thought we had vocations as educators. Apparently we do but dabble.

    Thongs put me over the edge, too, although Miss Patsy likes them and it serves to distinguish her underwear from mine.

    I like the new template. I especially like dachsunds, I’ve done a 180 on them. Every day as I cycle through the streets of NYC, I see one plump its ass down on the sidewalk and refuse to walk any farther. They’re accomplished resisters.

    yrs,
    B. Dagger Lee

  49. amananta

    I finally passed the intelligence test and figured out how to comment here! I feel like such a moron. But I digress.
    I solve the problems associated with various forms of underwear by not wearing any. I am sure everyone needed to know that.
    But no, I don’t understand the point of thongs. Even more so, I don’t understand a “feminine product” I saw in a store one day, which frightened and confused me – panty liners made to be worn with thongs. Words fail me when I try to express my feelings in regards to this product.

  50. grrr kitty

    Yes, B. Dagger Lee, dachshunds are resistance caninified. My sister has a miniature one whose spirit and feist I deeply admire.

  51. Sara

    Nice template. Is Austin hazy/misty like that at dusk, or is that an artistic augmentation?

    I do not understand thongs. Not from any angle.

    Dachsunds I understand. Very cute, very smart. Poor little buggers injur their backs very easily though, so you have to be careful with which furniture you let them jump off of all by themselves. This one really looks like he wants that lady either to pick him up, give him some ice cream, or at least back up so he can smell her better.

    B. Dagger Lee — Being called an “amateur,” which has its roots in love, is never an insult. “Hobbyist” though — hmmm, for me that puts a whole new spin on the term “hobby horse.” Ride ‘em if you’ve got ‘em, cowgirls (and boys)!

  52. mearl

    All this “accept whatever moronic things any woman does because she’s a woman and we must support all women” causes me to lift my eyebrow. I am all in favour of blaming the system of patriarchy, but to ignore the people who perpetuate its oppression or those who blindly take part in their own is to be remiss in my blaming. I need the full blaming experience.

    Clothing/adornment is NOT apolitical. Anyone who has gone through the torture of waxing, shaving, scrubbing, moisturising, applying makeup, false eyelashes, etc. and then stuffing themselves into skintight clothing, pushup bras, butt-irritating thong gitch, pantyhose and heels(and the hours it takes to do all this crap) and then compared this experience with dressing like a guy, in comfy guy underwear, loose clothing, flat shoes and short hair would be able to see the difference pretty clearly. I read somewhere that women spend up to 40 % of their income on their looks. Capitalism has a heyday with women’s need to look cute and sexy and buy a bunch of shit to adorn our sassy little selves with. I wouldn’t hesitate to say that women spend a good deal of their leisure time on their looks as well. My guy friends shave their own heads at home for free while my girlfriends spend 200 bucks at the salon getting highlights and a good cut. Not everyone falls for the marketing, but it’s the expectation that is SO much higher for women.

    Guys’ clothes are cheaper, fit better, and are comfortable. Nobody expects them to prance around on two stilts all day, wrecking their backs and legs, or stuff next-to-useless strings of material (that they coughed up 30 dollars for) up their asses in order to look masculine. Guys can get into their dress or business clothes and still be comfortable. Sure, you can argue and say that (insert nasal voice here)”women have a choice these days to be comfortable” but you know what? Society won’t tell women they look good, or feminine, unless they’re slaves to the status quo. It’s funny how billion-dollar industries continue to be built upon women’s insecurities, since women “have the choice now! *yay*.”

    Oppression doesn’t happen in one big old lump. It’s a complex system of many invisible threads which make up the web that keeps women down. The thong, I postulate, is one of these threads. If you focus on the individual, you have someone who just happened to wear one unimportant, harmless pair of thong underwear (and hang it out of their pants at a cafe): uncomfortable, non-functional underwear designed to make the wearer look sexy. If you get a group of women who are continually paying through the nose for this underwear and worrying about how hot they look in it and getting bacterial infections from it and convincing themselves that the buttfloss feeling is “comfy,” then you have a group who have internalised yet another small way of oppressing themselves.

    Here are two other things to think about:
    1)horses don’t mind a bit once they have been trained into it.

    2)Maybe the skintight clothes women are required to wear to look feminine are the real reason for this panic over “pantylines” and the subsquent “love” of thongs.

    The writings of Charlotte Perkins Gilman might interest the defenders of the thong. I studied her in one of my classes at school, and was surprised to see that she was writing criticisms of clothing inequality in the early 20th century that can still be applied today. Here’s an excerpt from an intro to a book of hers. It says things better than I can in all my rambling:

    “…women’s clothing sometimes caused serious illness and even death. We know now that the pressure exerted by steel and whalebone corsets could injure and displace a woman’s internal organs and could prevent the normal circulation of blood. The small and pointed shoes into which women were encouraged to cram their feet could damage the arches and calf muscles, as well as causing bunions and clawed toes. The trailing skirts made them vulnerable to accidents such as falls and fires. Even women’s large and extravagant hats [or thongs!], though not physically dangerous, had the damaging effect of making it difficult for the world to take their wearers seriously.”

  53. Jezebella

    Nice dog. Nice fog.
    Excellent levitating monkey.

    Too bad about the trolls, though.

    Twisty, you are a truly gifted provocateur.

  54. amaz0n

    Personally, the thong itself (though I decline to wear them) is not worthy of mocking. The fact that with the tats, grey t-shirt and black hip hugger pants she is blissfully unaware that the baby blue thong blows her street cred is worthy of mocking.

    From here on out, I shall avoid wearing baby blue, as apparently such colors, when worn in combination with my many tattoos, will blow my “street cred,” whatever that means.

    In my neighborhood, punks do not use ridiculous expressions like “street cred.”

    I, for one, will happily admit to wearing thong underwear on the regular. It has nothing to do with underwear lines or patriarchy-pleasing, it has to do with the amount of fabric I am willing to have lodged up my ass at any given time. I have a big butt, and almost all underwear are either too big in the waistband or too small in the ass area, and both situation cause said underwear to crawl up my ass and stay there.

    If I’m going to be wearing my underpants in my posterior anyway, I might as well be wearing a half-inch strip of fabric instead of ten inches of fabric.

    And for poor-fitting underpants that do not adequately cover my rear, IBtP.

  55. stekatz

    A good friend had the same issue. She went thong because, “my underwear’s already in my crack all day anyway.”

    Still, I’m wondering — in a Post-Camp Cuervo world, would thongs hold much attraction for anyone? I think, no, but I’ve been wrong before.

    Thong or no thong, I just prefer folks keep it in their pants. The less I know about someone’s underwear, the better.

    That being said, I was so programmed as a youngster with the idea that having your bra-strap showing was tanamount to farting in public, I have anxiety attacks about all the bra-strap-showing-underneath-the-tank-top looks as well.

    Do you suppose Camp Cuervo will have some workshops dedicated to such early traumas? I’m pretty sure the patriarchy is to blame for my fear of underwear in public. Or maybe the Catholic Church. It’s a fine line.

  56. varnish eater

    Very novice blamer here, with my first REAL comment! So exciting! Okay here it is:

    In my personal opinion and experience, underwear discomfort depends less on the style than on the individual pair. Most of my clothing discomfort comes from wearing tight jeans, not thongs.

    If I were to blame the patriarchy for something in that picture, it would be the overall downward spiral of street fashion towards trashy and slovenly, which I hate! I think that people should always try to look clean and sober whenever possible.

    I want to throw something else out here, sort of related: I think that skirts and dresses are the most comfortable items of clothing ever invented. So just because a style is feminine doesn’t mean it is torturous. It’s when you’re *expected* to dress and act and groom in a certain feminine way that the patriarchy should be blamed, not every single time a girl happens to be wearing a skirt (or a thong).

    Was that all painfully obvious?

  57. scratchy888

    I don’t like dresses these days, although I used to be able to accommodate them on my body. When I began kickboxing, some years ago, I moved from a very narrow size of upper body attire to needing something broader. I had incredible hulk episodes, when the seams in my jackets would rip as I leaned over to unwind the window of the car. My shoulder became much more large. Nowadays, because of the extra muscle bulk, dresses tend to pinch me too much around the ribs. I also feel them constricting me around the thighs. I find them quite a strange attire. I’ll still wear them, but rarely are they comfortable any more.

  58. hedonistic

    Varnish Eater: I think jeans are more uncomfortable than thongs too.

    Also, I think the knit wrap dress is the most beautiful item of clothing ever invented. No buttons, snaps or zippers, just two adjustable ties at the waist! I wear mine over vintage full slips. Oh, and stretchy knit pants because my job doesn’t rate pantyhose.

  59. Ron Sullivan

    I’m thinking a thong wouldn’t work on a bonobo because bonobos don’t exactly have buttcheeks.

    Think
    Think a thong
    Think it simple, to last the whole day long.
    Don’t worry that it’s not good enough
    For anyone else to see,
    Just think, think a thonnnnng

    I’m sorry; it’s the dextromethorphan. Or I’m getting really bad radio through my braces this week.

    That minipad that’s made to wear with a thong? It also comes in black. Pass the cough syrup, please; I think I know too much already.

  60. Kristina

    I save my vitriol for the #@*&ing pants. IBTP for the fact I can NOT buy a pair of pants for under $100 in my state that is not “fashion fit”- tight in the butt and thighs, and tripping over the seams. You sit down and your pants fall halfway down your butt. Get a bigger size, and they fall down when you’re standing. Why why why are these pants still popular? Rhetorical- because they make every woman look and feel fat, insecure, and therefore more likely to contribute to the $1 billion we spend on dieting aids every year.

    But if we are extolling the virtues of the thong, I say don’t forget labia excoriation. Now that’s some empowering stuff.

  61. Ron Sullivan

    Oh. Yeah. Where was I? I bought a couple thongs way back in the Pleistocene but they never did stop annoying me. I did see one very effective thong-showing outfit, in a little fair-trade shop in Davis. The salestootsie* wore black hiphuggers and a thong that was adorned with fake jewels and gilt, rather like a medieval girdle, at the T-back, and of course it showed when she squatted to pick up boxes. (Good body mechanics too.) The effect was stunning. I even nudged Joe so he wouldn’t miss it, mostly because that was easier than trying to describe it to him later.

    No he didn’t ask me to wear one of those, and I didn’t ask him to, either.

    All that aside: I do like the template head. I particuly like the attitude of the bonobo. Yes, exactly.

    *I’ve been told I ought to explain “tootsie.” A tootsie is female and younger than I am. It’s a bad habit I picked up from a history prof who called us all tootsies, but never addressed us that way in the singular. He addressed us as “Miss Surname” and was an early adopter of “Ms” — I’m talking around 1970 here.

  62. Ron Sullivan

    And I got to likin’ “French” hi-cuts when I was gardening for a living, because I could squat for an hour or so, back when I could squat for an hour or so, without getting that weird irritation from elastic at that leg-groin juncture. Victoria’s Secret, of all things, has cotton ones in good colors; they wear well and the size 7/L still fits my expanding ass. Lately I find it hard to walk into the place, though. It’s hard on my pancreas or something.

  63. mel

    Excellent post, Mearl. Thank you.

    I wear regular undies, and they don’t go up my butt. If undies are so darned uncomfortable, don’t wear them. Better that than stick a string between your crack. It’s like two kinds of dental floss. You know, there’s the string floss (mint flavored sometimes!) and the tape floss. They both go uncomfortably between things. The tape CAN be more annoying, although it does a more thorough job, but the string can break and get stuck. That’d be awful it if happened with butt string, even if it WERE mint flavored. But I digress.

    Anywho, the really important thing here is how to tell if a black mini-pad needs to be changed.

  64. mel

    Hey, who smudged out the tattoos?

  65. Mar Iguana

    (Jerk move alert, curiousgirl)

    ShrimpDumpling: “I am spurned into action…”

    Heh.

  66. janbee88

    And with those two pictures, you managed to capture an entire culture. Classy.

  67. Mar Iguana

    OK, if the handy dachshund is in the Vermint Center category does that put the clueless thonger in Easy Persiflage? Or, maybe I have it backwards. Wouldn’t be a first. Photo #2 makes my eyes bleed.

    The new header up top is beautiful. What’s the movie on the marquee? I’m guessing it’s a theatre anyway. All I can read is FU.

  68. maggiethewolf

    halfnhalf wrote: “Then out come dogmatic, fawning wolves dressed in activist clothing.”

    There are other sorts of wolves here.

    The photo does invite mocking.

    Witness the first post: “Even that thong shot is nice in a hillbilly-ghetto way.”

    Hillbilly are often cast as undereducated, low class hicks. Ghetto folks can be framed urban versions of hillbillies. There are few kind connotations in these words. Note that none of the Blamers challenged their application…other than halfnhalf, who was called halfwit and half cocked, and shrimp, who was dimissed as a troll.

    As a journalist, I don’t take pics of people’s underwear and post those pics for folks to mock. Likewise, I don’t take pics of sleeping men who’ve soiled themselves.

    I know, I know. Some of you will consider me a troll for disagreeing.

    But Twisty, you are a smart, smart, smart provocateur and a fine, fine, fine writer. Why take these shortcuts? Why post a pic of a man who soiled himself and a woman who wedgied herself? Did you secure permission from either? If you want to find folks for Exhibit A and Exhibit B, have standards beyond incomplete anonymity.

    You’re a bit of a stalkarazzi, stalking that certain image that allows you to blame the patriarchy, but you can do it without bushwhacking strangers.

    Arthur Miller wrote: “Every man needs his Jew.”

    Every woman too. Just pick a worthy target, Twisty: not someone who’s unconscious or has her back turned.

  69. KTal

    “MG! She’s wearing a THONG!!! Doesn’t she know she’s sucking the cock of the PATRIARCHY! Quick, someone tell her, the poor thing!

    What’s next? Grooming? decoration? fashion? make up? Skirts? BIKINIS?????

    *gasp*”

    Sure Shrimp, us hairy radicals are just stomping all those helpless thong wearing women every chance we get. Read the papers its happening everywhere.

    Fact is, women who defend the practice of spending grostesque amounts of their own hard earned money on chasing fashion trends seem to have a real problem with women who don’t. More of a problem, I’ve found, than even the worst of men.

    You see, man hating women just hate all women, no matter what they wear. But my attire tells them right off that I don’t really care what they think of me and that I am more focused on my own comfort and my own advancement, regardless of their cock induced approval, or lack of it.

    So they ignore me at least as a sexual opportunity. Boy what am I missing out on eh?

    But the women, oh the women, the make-up wearing, hair sprayed, nail painted, high heel wearing women, look upon me as an affront. They wish me to die off, to go away and wither alone.

    They should be happy if competition for men is all their interest, but no, they aren’t. They aren’t satisfied with that, nope, they want me to disappear and shut the fuck up.

    They say, “Oh, you’re not as feminine as us. You’re different, are you gay? Oh, I thought…but then, you know…” and they stumble to figure out where I fit in their patriarchical parameters and are stuck. They are stuck because in order to recognize that I am a woman and just possibly damn happy doing what I like and I didn’t need the teevee to tell me what everyone else is wearing, or the advertisements, or nail polish, a new do in order to feel whole this morning or know where I fit in the universe.

    And men still talk to me and I can conduct business and what the hell? That’s not supposed to happen! I’m supposed to be hated, to be despised and isolated. And I’m not. What gives!

    Yeah, Shrimp and a half. It sure hurts when women start to talk about how thongs and the rest just don’t make the woman complete. To talk about how all that crap only makes her a distracted, tired and broke chic without a pot to piss in if there isn’t some man there drooling to get a chance to provide one for her.

  70. KTal

    and I was doing so well.

    Error: “You see, man hating women just hate all women…”

    should read: “You see, women hating men just hate all women…”

  71. thelmyc

    Some people just do not think clearly.

    “I just think it’s like such a total waste of time to act like a thong oppresses women. There’s like so many more impooooortant things to worry about! Like death, murder, war!”

    *pauses for breath*

    “OMGGG!!!11!!!eleven!!! You insulted my underwear of choice! I shall henceforth never read your blog again!”

    Okay, so yizall get pissed at Twisty for actually daring to consider women’s sartorial choices as fodder for her blog because you think it’s like, oh-so-unimportant, but then it’s important enough to YOU for you all to stomp off like peeved toddlers when she doesn’t say what you want to hear. Clearly, you’re perfectly prepared to completely ignore her posts about breast cancer, domestic violence, the burqa, the history of feminism etc. because yall are pissy over her opinion of your damned underwear.

    Ironic, much?

  72. jbeeky

    I official pronounce this Twisty day on acounta she got over 70 comments on a thong.

  73. hedonistic

    KTal, did you just create a strawfemme or something? How do you know what us lipstick-wearing women are thinking about you? Didja ask?
    Frankly, I’ve never entertained such garbage thoughts in my head about any woman, and I’ve never heard any of my feminine sisterhood say anything like what you suggest we’re thinking. My guess is that most anxiety-ridden women are more worried about the so-called “female competition” than in your choices.

    If you ever met a woman who has actually said those things to you, well, she’s an ass. And probably batshit loony to boot.

  74. greengirl7

    Way to go Twisty! This is as good (or as bad) as “YOU POKE IT YOU OWN IT” which was the first Twisty blog I had the pleasure of reading. It is merely a way of encouraging discussion, controversy and education, “n’est pas?”
    Up here in Canada, the so-called “Women’s” TV Network ran a promo for weeks for an offering that calls itself “The Mom Show.” The ad featured one of the hosts exclaiming to her co-host “I’ve GOT to show you my underpants!” Viewers were treated to a view of a PINK double T-thong with some other decorations, rising above the butt side of her low-rise jeans. Needless to say, this show has, or has had, very little to do with low-income single mothers struggling with day-care costs, the provision of adequate nutrition for themselves and their children, and finding the time to do laundry – thongs or granny panties not withstanding. The co-host is heard to declare; “I have the very same ones!!” So read into this what you will, but IBTP.
    Oscar Wilde, although pale, male, and drunk on absinthe, understood the “fickleness” of fashion, when he declared: (I paraphrase) “What is fashion? Something so hideously ugly, it must be completely changed every six months.”
    I have never worn a thong, and never will! I would likely be considered a “hairy radical” because I like skirts and don’t shave. Perhaps I am lazy or I’m not willing to buy into the patriarchal cult anymore – I once wore stilettos, sexy lingerie, tight pantyhose, short skirts, showed cleavage (breast, not butt) and “expressed my sexuality” – but it was all smoke and mirrors and never amounted to a hill of beans. I now feel incredibly free from all the trappings of looking “desirable” and I’m happy that there’s a forum for this discussion. Twisty just knows how to invoke our expressions of discomfort with all that we must face. Bravo spinster aunt and gentleman farmer!

  75. Nia

    I have read about half the comments and skimmed through the rest, and I can’t believe I am the only one to say that I don’t like the new template very much. The mix of the faded colours on the title and the light grey background looks strangely sad, washed-out, and makes me think I forgot to put on my reading glasses.

  76. Mandos

    As I said before, my favorite Twisty design was the original TypePad masthead. It’s still up, here, funny hairdo lady and all:

    http://twistyfaster.typepad.com/

    I have to agree with Nia. This masthead is for Deep, Serious, and Profound Ruminations of a Melancholic Nature, written by an extreme introvert with a somewhat incompatible desire to be an haut journaliste or a famous auteur. The gorilla does not suffice to restore the sarcastic whimsy. And where is the motto? “The Patriarchy-blaming blog that never misses dinner!” Dinner is clearly missed here.

  77. HalfnHalf

    Edit: You’ll hear no more on this topic from likes of me TODAY. Warning: There may be typos, language might not be perfect. I am a freelance writer and this is my day off. Get a grip, folks.

    Whyme63: “Um … Anything else that you may read into it says more about your issues than it does about Twisty’s. Frickin’ A, how I hate those “ums” in internet discourse but moving past that: Ok, I used some knee-jerk words in my earlier comments. Guilty. The thread, however, began degenerating into scoff and ridicule before I jumped in. Note: “hillbilly-ghetto way,” “I am sure it was an empowering choice to wear a rectal exam,” “Women who claim thongs are comfortable fall into the same self-delusioned category” in the earlier comments. Regardless of Twisty’s intent, readers began projecting their opinions upon ThongWoman before I jumped in with my Halfwitted accusations.

    I am not a new commenter, nor new to this Patriarchy blaming. After spending nearly a year questioning – at considerable cost to myself but that’s a whole other long-ass story — the whole fucking Makeup Thing, I made my decisions and am at peace. (After this comment, some may guess who this “troll” is.) So much for the “a little self-esteem goes a long way” comment.

    These “Strawfeminist” makeover pics in Blogland, etc. They don’t work for me. This slathering of PhotoShop garish blush on one’s (Yes, that’s apostrophe s there yet again!) cheeks in mockery of women who chose to wear the shit – what’s the point, Twisty? I guess it’s sort of funny – but it will undoubtedly raise the hackles of some feminists who chose to wear makeup.

    What exactly does this accomplish?

    Also in these comments, the assumptions that Girlyshit is “empowering!” or “my Choice, damn you.” Seriously. No makeup-wearing feminist is that stupid. For many of us, it boils down to uniquely personal issues or mere decoration. Humans LIKE that stuff, the decoration, we do.

    I understand some women get “rewarded by the patriarchy” for Girlyshit. I understand the ways women are punished in this society for refusing the Girlyshit. I could sit around with any of you and discuss feminist theory, Dworkin and whatnot very intellectually and impressively –I got a fucking degree in it, fer crying out loud.

    Yet the bottom line for me: We agree that living female in this society is tough, yes? Some of us will have little trouble casting aside the razor and writing excellent essays – but may not be able for whatever reasons to take a timid, non-English speaking single mother to D.S.S. to get welfare. Others may cheerfully volunteer at a DV hotline but just can’t handle the protest lines at a clinic. A woman may decide she likes the Girlyshit – I’m not talking strip clubs here folks, just the “lesser offenses” of a razor and the color pink – but can still write a mean-ass essays about male privilege or what have you.

    Do we get it YET or am I still the only fucking feminist genius around?

    Oh and for the record: I wear my tattoos with pink stars, studded belts and motorcycle boots – thongless.

  78. HalfnHalf

    That’s a alot of words up there. I apologize for the dissertation, Twisty. I blame the coffee.

  79. Sara

    amaz0n, thank you. Now I understand that there is an actual practical reason some people might wear thongs. When I said I did not understand them, I was not kidding. But hey, yes, if your underwear is going to get wodged up your butt no matter what kind it is, then it certainly makes sense to go with the least amount of wodgeable material. I am glad I do not have your problem, though, because I think I’d have to just skip it all and “go commando.”

    Which brings me to Ron: Instead of shopping Victoria’s Dirty Little Secret, you can buy high-cut briefs (which I prefer for much the same reasons: no binding, excellent range of motion, plus excellent staying put properties) in cotton three-packs up to size 10 at most conventional grocery stores (and probably Long’s Drugs) or in 6-pack assortments for ten bucks at One Hanes Place. Each package is apparently both made in the USA and imported, which I hope means not just dead cheap but minimally handled by locked-shop or child labor. They are reasonably good quality, too. I only throw things like this out when holes appear where the fabric is disintegrating with age, and I just last week picked up my first three-pack since 1999.

    On the other hand, Kristina, you can get pants that fit at L. L. Bean. They come in many different styles, in petite and women’s sizes, none of them uber-fashionable, and they are 100% guaranteed to satisfy, which means you can order one in every style if you have that kind of resources, learn what works for you, and send back the ones you don’t like. Styles range from waistbands that actually happen at the waist to others riding just below the waist. The cuts also come narrow, flared, and flat-out wide-legged. Some are stretchy. Some are not. There are no pubic-hair-skimming styles. There are usually belt loops and functional pockets. The pants stay up when you bend over, kick box, or whatever, and I don’t think any that aren’t high-tech for skiing and whatnot cost over $40 or $45. Of course, all their products are now “imported” pretty much, which usually means made in China. But, heck, as with the Hanes underwear mentioned above, though I added to my twill shorts assortment this summer, I can’t remember the last time I actually spent money replacing pants. These puppies are still mostly made to last.

    I hope this helps. I once read a quote from Coco Chanel that my poor, battered memory won’t allow me to repeat with complete precision, but it went something like, “Before a woman can be liberated, she must be able to think in a dress.” Being able to wear clothes so comfortable you don’t have to think about them is a wonderful, wonderful opportunity, one women of previous centuries were not always so lucky to enjoy. Fortunately, in spite of fashion, we have more options to suit more tastes and body types than ever before. They just aren’t always right in front of us.

    Of course, we all know whom to blame for the obscuration.

  80. lavalamp

    I think it’s somewhat eye-pleasing template but not really dynamic or seemingly connected to the content of the blog. However, it’s Twisty’s blog and if she likes it, that’s her bidness.

    I’m impressed by the 70 comments but I think I missed the part where Twisty used the woman/girl or her thong as “fodder” or in ANY way intimated ANYthing about the woman in the thong (much less vis a vis the patriarchy), other than the fact that she was sitting in front of Stingray’s camera that day. It could have just as easily been one of those numerous south Austin dudes with a scraggly soul patch sitting there.

    And I, for one, would never assume I knew what Twisty’s intent was and while the first syllable of “southwest” is italicized, I think it’s a bit of a reach to jump all the way from that to women-hating. Was she also inviting ridicule of the dachshund or the woman flouncing past it in the green skirt?

  81. hedonistic

    I agree with the commenter(s) above: Everything we post chez Twisty says more about our (often anxious) projections than it does about her. What a blogular Rorschach Test this is!

  82. CafeSiren

    I still like the bonobo atop the taco stand, but masthead-Austin looks as smoggy as L.A.

  83. maggiethewolf

    Halfnhalf: “These “Strawfeminist” makeover pics in Blogland, etc. They don’t work for me. This slathering of PhotoShop garish blush on one’s (Yes, that’s apostrophe s there yet again!) cheeks in mockery of women who chose to wear the shit – what’s the point, Twisty? I guess it’s sort of funny – but it will undoubtedly raise the hackles of some feminists who chose to wear makeup.”

    Halfnhalf, that’s a wholly interesting point. I think there’s an assumption here that patriarchy infiltrates everything we say and do. But in matriarchal arrangements, women did gussy their skin.

    I attribute much of what we do to capitalism, which, of course, serves patriarchy. Women are the designated consumers. There is ubiquitous emperical data for this: step into any shop. Women even purchase the majority of male undies, for their hubbies and bfs…and sometimes for their own groiny selves.

    But pre-capitalism and in matriarchal tribes, women were painting their faces and their walls. So, whereas an unadorned face might be meant as a mark of patriarchal defiance, is such a woman also willing to leave her walls unadorned, since consuming latex surely serves capitalism and in turn, patriarchy?

    I’ve got halfnhalf’s back and I believe that there are motivations for gussying that predate patriarchy.

  84. robin

    Maggie the Wolf, Half-n-Half:
    there’s gussying, and then there’s gussying. Yes, humans throughout time have adorned themselves. I claim however that there is big difference between wearing earrings, for instance, and tottering around on high heels. When I wear earrings I like the way I look. I like the color, the little sparkle and the bit of movement around my face. It is an altogether fun and pain-free little pleasure. I have adorned myself for me. When I wear tight pants and high heels, I don’t feel good. It hurts and is uncomfortable. I delude MYSELF when I say I feel comfortable, and I delude myself when I say I’m doing it for me. It’s bullshit, and I when I’m honest with myself I know it. I’m doing it to conform to the patriarchy’s expectation of how I’m supposed to look to win male approval.
    There are indeed motives for gussying that predate patriarchy.
    There are also motives for gussying that are totally subserviant to the patriarchy. Just be honest with yourself about what your motives really are.

  85. amananta

    I never have trouble finding pants that actually fit around my waist instead of being worn so low cut that they are in danger of falling off, but this is probably because I am most emphatically not skinny, and fat women’s clothes are designed to cover as much of our objectional bodies as possible. Not that this bothers me personally, as my favorite skirt length is one that falls between the knee and ankle.

  86. maggiethewolf

    robin, your earring example isn’t especially cogent, considering you paid someone to stab you twice…and then there’s the possiblity of infection or an allergic response. But I still get your point.

    As far as me, I don’t gussy. I’m a ragamuffin. It’s a splendid day if I bother to change my shirt…or brush my hair. I do, however, gussy my home (I’m painting next week.), so I correlate that desire with the desire to paint one’s face. This isn’t to say that I don’t get the whackiness of wearing certain clothing and its connection to patriarchy. I think a lot of women are fashion marionettes at the ends of merciless strings, wielded, of course, by the patriarchy.

  87. witchy-woo

    What’s gussying? (I’m a Brit and don’t know the word.)

  88. accordianchick

    Witchy-woo: Gussying is an American term for fixing yourself up all pretty-like, with or without a thong.

  89. Hawise

    gus·sy (gs)
    tr.v. gus·sied, gus·sy·ing, gus·sies Slang
    To dress or decorate elaborately; adorn or embellish: gussied herself up in sequins and feathers.

    The level is dependant on culture. My grandmother thought gussying up was putting on your church going clothes during the week. My mother considers it actually doing your hair and applying make up. My youngest sister considers it doing her legs, hair, make-up and getting a new dress and shoes.

  90. amaz0n

    Sara:

    amaz0n, thank you. Now I understand that there is an actual practical reason some people might wear thongs. When I said I did not understand them, I was not kidding. But hey, yes, if your underwear is going to get wodged up your butt no matter what kind it is, then it certainly makes sense to go with the least amount of wodgeable material. I am glad I do not have your problem, though, because I think I’d have to just skip it all and “go commando.”

    I applaud my sisters who are comfortable going commando, but I just can’t bring myself to do it. I always seem to be zipping my pubic hair into my fly or finding that nefarious jeans lint in my nether regions. Ew!

  91. robin

    In regards to earrings:
    yes, it hurt for a second to get pierced ears, although I would not call it being “stabbed”. Same with tattoos. I imagine it hurts to get a tattoo. Tribal scarification body decorations must hurt also. It hurts like crap when I do push-ups or ab crunches sometimes also. So I suppose physical pain alone isn’t the final measure of whether or not we are being motivated by a desire to please the patriarcy, but I can tell you that if it ached every freakin’ minute to wear my earrings, I wouldn’t do it. I would honestly have to question what it was really about.

  92. amaz0n

    I can tell you that if it ached every freakin’ minute to wear my earrings, I wouldn’t do it.

    Or if they prevented me from moving correctly or quickly, caused permanent damage to my limbs, or any number of other health and safety issues that correlate directly with heels and various other ladies-only “gussying” items.

  93. Luckynkl

    Re: Fascist Beauty Standards

    It’s really not all that hard to figure out when you’re conforming to being a sexbot for the patriarchy and when you’re not. Just ask yourself a few questions.

    Do men wear it? Or is it something that conforms to “femininity,” (a patrarchially created gender role and standard), which helps reduce women into a sex class? Is it comfortable and practical? Would you wear it while lounging around the house, camping out, running the 100 yard dash or climbing a mountain? Is it meant to be pleasing to the eye? Who’s eye? If it’s meant to make you look attractive or sexy, there’s a big clue. Who are you trying to be attractive or sexy to? Who, then, is it meant to benefit?

  94. Loosely Twisted

    I want to throw something else out here, sort of related: I think that skirts and dresses are the most comfortable items of clothing ever invented. So just because a style is feminine doesn’t mean it is torturous. It’s when you’re *expected* to dress and act and groom in a certain feminine way that the patriarchy should be blamed, not every single time a girl happens to be wearing a skirt (or a thong).

    I wanted to reply to this before I continued on the thread topic.

    I understand your opinion about dresses/skirts, and I can see how they could be confortable… However…

    I have come to believe that it is the ULTIMATE in the oppression of women, and I will tell you why.

    At some point in history, men wore Togas…Nice ones, beautiful ones, silk ones and even cotton ones.. But then, something happened and a Man said Oh we don’t wear them because of “this”..

    Now no one had to really say what “that” was, but it’s clear to me that it’s because of “easy access” to the areas of mention that this was perfect to put on women, so they could use them when ever, how ever possible. Underwear came much later…. As a possible buffer.

    Dresses, skirts, wraparounds all for the same idea. Easy access to the goods.

    I refuse and will forever refuse to wear such clothing as it screams “asking for it.”

    Beyond that, every guy I have ever seen catcall and hoot at a girl was wearing such and item. All the proof I need to know that those items of clothing aren’t ever appropriate around men.

  95. Loosely Twisted

    Gah forgot to say IBtP for it. :(

  96. hedonistic

    Loosely Twisted, does the fact that I wear PANTS under my wrap dresses make me a – gasp – subversive? I love it!

  97. Luckynkl

    I applaud my sisters who are comfortable going commando, but I just can’t bring myself to do it. I always seem to be zipping my pubic hair into my fly or finding that nefarious jeans lint in my nether regions. Ew!

    Oh, gimme a break. Jeans, t-shirts, sneakers. Heard of them? They’re very unisex. And “commandos” don’t wear them on the battle field.

    If you’re zipping your hair up in your fly, then the pants are too tight. Stop trying to stuff yourself into something you wore when you were 10. I recommend loose fitting clothes that let you breathe and don’t inhibit movement and cut off circulation, and make you feel free to run, jump, kick and climb.

    Sneakers are tne next best thing to being barefoot. Soles should bend and be pliable. Human feet should be able to grip. Humans learn to walk by gripping the floor with the feet.

    Dress as if there could be a fire at any minute and you might have to escape. Women often die and are injured in fires and diasters because of the clothes and footwear they wear. How attractive do you think you’ll look dead?

  98. amaz0n

    Oh, gimme a break. Jeans, t-shirts, sneakers. Heard of them? They’re very unisex. And “commandos” don’t wear them on the battle field.

    How about you give me a break, Luckynkl, and explain to me what the fuck you’re talking about. What does my decision to wear underwear vs. not wear underwear have to do with jeans, t-shirts or footwear?

    If you’re zipping your hair up in your fly, then the pants are too tight. Stop trying to stuff yourself into something you wore when you were 10. I recommend loose fitting clothes that let you breathe and don’t inhibit movement and cut off circulation, and make you feel free to run, jump, kick and climb.

    Says you, and your patronizing tone is not appreciated. Unless you have super-magic psychic-vision, it would be my recommendation that you don’t make assumptions (or prescriptions) about the fit of my clothing based on the fact that I chose to wear underwear. And for your information, I wear clothing that fits me. Not that is too tight, not that is to loose, that fits me. And rest assured that I can run, jump, kick and climb just fine.

    Sneakers are tne next best thing to being barefoot. Soles should bend and be pliable. Human feet should be able to grip. Humans learn to walk by gripping the floor with the feet.

    What, again, does this have to do with the fact that I don’t like going commando?

    Dress as if there could be a fire at any minute and you might have to escape. Women often die and are injured in fires and diasters because of the clothes and footwear they wear. How attractive do you think you’ll look dead?

    What, again, are you talking about? And why was this overly-patronizing diatribe necessary in a conversation about whether or not going without underwear is comfortable?

  99. vera

    Normally I read all the comments before commenting, but this time I just couldn’t do it. I’m supposed to be working.

    BUT I must say that is a handsome dachshund. He looks just like my Alfred; a black and tan mini who grew up to be more of a tweeny (in between miniature and standard). Alfie is smart, willful, and wicked. I adore him. He adores me. It is a perfect relationship. So what if he is short and hairy?

  100. Summer

    Loosely Twisted:

    You wrote: “Beyond that, every guy I have ever seen catcall and hoot at a girl was wearing such and item. All the proof I need to know that those items of clothing aren’t ever appropriate around men.”

    Did you mean that every woman you’ve seen objectified in “catcall and hoot” format was wearing a dress/skirt? That, to me, is notably strange. I would counter that no item of clothing adds or detracts from woman’s object status, because that which makes her woman/object/other are her XX chromosomes, and there’s really no pair of pants on earth that can camoflauge genetic reality. That aside, I thought you might be interested in a most revolting catcall I recently received while wearing unremarkably midestern jeans and a t-shirt. I had just pulled into a drugstore parking lot, and, as I got out of my car, I pulled my pants up a little (no belt that day, sadly) only to hear a male voice from a nearby car holler: “Don’t pull ‘em up!”

    I wish I were kidding. He really did advise against pulling my pants upward, and implied I should, in fact, adjust them downward right there in the CVS parking lot. He wanted a peep show, I guess, and felt entitled to it not because of the pants, but because I’m female, a member of the sex class and my job as a sexbot includes getting him off while I attempt to procure toilet paper and lip balm.

    It doesn’t matter much what you wear or don’t wear, as far as catcalling, oogling, and the like are concerned. Frankly, I wonder if it matters much at all. Men feel compelled to look, to insult, and to make judgements on women’s bodies (and the clothes they wear) because of a shitty ideologic system, not because of the number of leg holes a garment boasts.

    Indeed, I blame the patriarchy.

  101. rumblelizard

    I would much rather look at a dachshund than a thong. One is cute and affectionate and will make your life a lot funner. The other one just gets lodged in your ass.

  102. amaz0n

    Luckynkl, upon further review, it occurs to me that your apparent presumption that I wear some kind of uber-sexbot costume lacking in such ubiquitous items as jeans and t-shirts may come from a misunderstanding of the expression ‘going commando,’ which is a slang term for not wearing underwear. If that is the case, please accept my apologies for my ire just now, although I am curious how you have managed to avoid this expression previously.

  103. varnish eater

    “Now no one had to really say what “that” was, but it’s clear to me that it’s because of “easy access” to the areas of mention that this was perfect to put on women, so they could use them when ever, how ever possible. Underwear came much later…. As a possible buffer.”

    I think that no matter how feminine or unfeminine I look, if some guy wants to rape me, he will. It seems to me that if you say my skirt makes guys want to rape me, then that’s kind of blaming the victim.

    Does anybody know the history of skirts vs. pants for men and women? I know that in historic China, men wore the skirts. And let’s not forget kilts! I kind of think that when women started wearing skirts, they were a way to disguise the fact that women had legs (and what lies between them) so that they wouldn’t tempt men to rape them.

    This belief is not based on a ton of knowledge, however, I heard a story from a professor once: some students of hers went to Africa (don’t know which country) and they were told to never wear pants or show their legs in any way. One did, and was raped on principle. . .because the guy assumed she was a slut for having legs, I suppose.

    Anyway. . .cute dachshund! My aunt breeds and shows them. They bark too much for my tastes, though.

  104. varnish eater

    Whoa, sorry about all that crap up there when I quoted. Gross.

  105. Mwezzi

    I wish that everyone would just pull their trousers up once in a while. Seriously. Butt-cracks, thongs, boxers galore, men and women all proudly displaying their upper arses – they all look terrible and are a blight upon my delicate eyes. Sure, thongs are bad for vaginal health, are a direct product of the sex industry and I personally wish they’d never left the strip club, but for the record, I think that ALL above-trouser underwear displays reflect badly upon the wearer in one way or another, be they male or female.

    Daschunds, on the other hand, are not nearly as bad. They are one of the best aspects of modern society.

  106. Luckynkl

    Luckynkl, upon further review, it occurs to me that your apparent presumption that I wear some kind of uber-sexbot costume lacking in such ubiquitous items as jeans and t-shirts may come from a misunderstanding of the expression ‘going commando,’ which is a slang term for not wearing underwear.

    Got me. I’ve never heard the expression “going commando” in terms of underwear. Or rather, lack of it. I thought it was just another take on the “hairy, man-hating, army boot-wearing dyke who can’t get a man” rhetoric that has been the mainstay stereotype of feminists since time on end. Given your name, it puzzled me why you’d alude to this kind of stereotype. As it turns out, you didn’t. So it was my bad, not yours. Please accept my apology.

    But no, I didn’t think you dressed in some kind of uber-sexbot costume. Obviously you wore jeans. I just figured they were too tight if you were catching your hair in the fly. And let’s just say that diplomacy isn’t one of my virtues. I kinda skipped ladies’ finishing school.

    But other than my reference to your jeans, I really wasn’t directing the rest of my comment towards you specifically. It was more general info and the general “you.” I have a bad habit of not distinguishing between the two when I write. Again, that’s not your fault. That’s mine.

    But now that we’ve got the misunderstanding cleared up, I now have new terminology! And now I can go all commando on people! :P Well at least some of the time. It’s about half and half. It has more to do with temperature than making a fashion statement.

  107. amaz0n

    Please accept my apology.

    No problem.

    But now that we’ve got the misunderstanding cleared up, I now have new terminology! And now I can go all commando on people!

    I chuckled mightly about this.

  108. Ron Sullivan

    And. If you’re gonna wear thongs, at least wear ‘em backwards.

    Sara, I’ve gone through a number of other high-cut brands in my quest to free myself of the Vickie’s Sickies. So far, no good. And the size 7s seem always to come in sickly pastels rather than the range of colors that VS has in all sizes (mind-boggling, I know) or that the other brands have in smaller sizes, which serves to piss me off immediately. Fortunately I only have to get a handful of new ones (5 for $20, as I recall, less if I hit a sale) every couple of years, so my pancreas is in little real danger.

    But other than that unfortunate venture into Sears, I buy all my bras at Title 9, which I hope covers my karma* as well as my ass. I wear those only because of age and potholes.

    *No, I don’t actually believe in karma. And I shall sneer witheringly at any pious soul who attempts to tell me that I “can do better.”** I’m much older and nastier than Jill over at Feministe. Hell, I’m older and nastier than Twisty. Who, come to think of it, isn’t nasty at all, despite her apparent inability or disinclination to control the thoughts and words of everyone who posts here.

    **Just to be clear, I know that’s not what Sara’s doing.

  109. al

    “..the whole fucking Makeup Thing, I made my decisions and am at peace. (After this comment, some may guess who this “troll” is.)”

    Ah, it’s you. :) Miss you mate, hope everything’s going well for you.

    :-)

  110. hedonistic

    Speaking of bras, I’m sure we all have a lot of opinions on them that we’d just lurrrrve to litter Twisty’s site with. She wouldn’t even have to put a lot of work into an essay: She could post a photo with a woman with an exposed brastrap, say “Behold, a woman in a bra,” and then we could all GO TO TOWN!

    Whaddayousay, Twisty?

  111. Twisty

    To tell you the truth, I haven’t given much thought to bras since I became boobless a few months ago, but don’t let that stand in your way. Have at it.

  112. Amber

    >>Get a grip, Shrimp. That model was hardly “speaking out” or “protesting”; she was a game show contestant at a party for Vogue. Her reason for disapproving of enforced anorexia was that it is “unattractive” and “unfeminine.” In other words, she was supporting patriarchal beauty standards.<<

    For the love of Isis, PLEASE tell me that you're being sarcastic there, Twisty.

  113. Jill

    Sorry, but I can’t tell you much of anything about a comment I wrote 5 years ago.

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