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Dec 25 2006

Whereas if you’re female, you just kind of expect it sooner or later

“When someone goes through it, the effects can be devastating, especially if you’re male.”

– Lynn Parrish, spokeswoman for the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network, on the “understandable” greater sensitivity manifested by male rape victims [source].

78 comments

2 pings

  1. Mary Sunshine

    Boyz aren’t *spozed* to get raped.

    Plus, they never go around “asking for it”.

    Oh, it’s always “alarm, alarm” whenever years of sexual abuse of boys in a religious or reform school environment gets disclosed.

    Funny we never hear about the same having happened to the crowds of girls in those same environments.

  2. nthwaver

    Why do people find it so much easier to sympathize with a privilege revoked, or a privilege popped, than a privilege never had? As if having to build coping mechanisms early in life makes one luckier?

  3. justtesting

    Yeah, cos when it happens to women it’s the natural order of things, for men it’s a threat to the entire structure of the universe.

  4. Hattie

    Exactly, justesting.

  5. scratchy888

    The two mind rapes I experienced were quite traumatic. Mind rape happens when a particular patriarch who has power over you decides that he doesn’t like your character structure, and that it is his responsibility to remould you into something much more sycophantic and emotionally broken.

  6. Uhura

    “When someone goes through it, the effects can be devastating, especially if you’re male.”

    The sad truth is that this thinking is very common in our society…

  7. KTal

    As said by an investigator in referenced report, “When you’re talking about the humiliation of being dominated and threatened with your life to perform sexual acts, it’s understandable,”

    For men that is.

    The patriarchy assumes the humiliation and domination of women as a rite of passage to sexual intercourse. Indeed, if the invader is invaded, then what shall become of the empire? Who then shall guard the gates to entitlement?

  8. Pony

    Yes. Everything that has been said above. But this organization and person are supposed to be advocates for the raped. All the raped, and they are both receiving federal funds for that work, are they not? So who does one write to, send copies of one’s letter to, etc. Because they are accountable.

    “Lynn Parrish, spokeswoman for the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network”

  9. Pony

    Income tax exempt form:
    http://www.rainn.org/docs/about/RAINN_990_FY05_YE_05-31-05.pdf

    Annual report:
    http://www.rainn.org/docs/about/rainn-annual-report-FY05.pdf

    Give Scott a call:

    Board of Directors
    Scott Berkowitz, President
    Regan Burke
    Katherine Miller
    Mary Jo Moon
    Frederick Arnold

    Business Office
    Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network
    2000 L Street NW
    Suite 406
    Washington, DC 20036

    202.544.1034
    800.656.4673, extension 3
    202.544.3556 FAX
    info@rainn.org

    Corporate Sponsors

    Target
    Target generously supports RAINN and the 2006 Funkadelic Benefit in the Twin Cities. We thank Target for their commitment to the fight against sexual assault and their sponsorship of this important event.

    Prudential Financial
    RAINN partners with Prudential Financial on Get Carded, a program to educate college students about sexual assault. Volunteers distribute wallet cards and information about sexual assault awareness, prevention, and the National Sexual Assault Hotline on college campuses across the country. Prudential’s support for this program makes it possible for RAINN to reach 1.5 million college students on more than 1,200 college campuses in 50 states and the District of Columbia.

    National Media Partners

    RAINN thanks our National Media Partners for their ongoing support in educating the public about the issue of sexual assault and helping to connect victims of sexual assault to the support and resources that they need. For more information about becoming a National Media Partner, please contact Lynn Parrish, VP of Communications, at 202-544-3059 or lynnp@rainn.org.

    Lifetime Entertainment
    Lifetime Television works with RAINN to educate women about sexual assault through feature films and television specials. They also feature the National Sexual Assault Hotline in public service announcements, banner ads and website promotions.

    RAINN’s Technology Partners

    RAINN benefits from the support of several key technology partners. We thank these companies for generously providing services and support to RAINN.

    AOL
    AOL is generously donating managed hosting services to support RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Online Hotline. This donation will help RAINN give the victims of sexual assault a safe, secure place on the Internet where they can reach trained volunteers in real-time.

    KnowNow
    Thanks to the generous assistance of KnowNow, RAINN is currently developing the National Sexual Assault Online Hotline. KnowNow Inc. is a provider of event driven integration solutions. The Hotline, which is scheduled to roll out in Spring 2006, will give victims of sexual assault access to secure, anonymous, real-time conversations with trained volunteers over the Internet.

    McAfee
    McAfee, the leading consumer and enterprise security firm, is an important partner in the creation of the National Sexual Assault Online Hotline. McAfee is providing RAINN with security assessment services and advanced technology security training for RAINN staff. In addition, McAfee has helped RAINN to develop the volunteer training materials, providing us with information for and feedback on our computer safety training.

    Panix
    Panix, the oldest commercial Internet provider in New York, is donating email hosting capabilities to support RAINN’s administrative offices. Thanks to Panix’s generous donation, RAINN will be able to keep up with the ever-increasing needs of our dedicated staff and the people, projects and organizations they work to support.

    Additional Support

    RAINN receives additional support from many other companies and organizations and we thank them for their generous support. Recent corporate contributors include: ChoicePoint; Coors; the Samuelson Law, Technology & Public Policy Center at the University of California, Berkeley, School of Law; and Simpson, Thacher & Bartlett.
    © RAINN 2006 • info@rainn.org •

  10. Hattie

    Remember that it is far more devastating for a man to get pregnant, especially through rape, than for a woman. After all, we’re used to it.
    Anyway, happy holidays to all you blamers.

  11. AradhanaDevindra

    What Pony said is very true, this woman holds a position of responsibility to those victims of rape that she represents. If this is what comes out from the ‘top of her head’ imagine the difference between the kind of support the victims of rape recieve based on their gender. Unbelievable.

    Good idea to write a letter to them, also to their board of directors.

  12. yankee transplant

    oh jeezus.

  13. Ginger Mayerson

    Surveys conducted by the Department of Justice indicate that one in 10 rape victims is male, and that 1 in 33 men is a victim of sexual assault.

    That sounds way too high, but might be right. Rape has been out of control for a long time and something serious might get done to make it not okay if it starts happening to more men. Too bad for you men, but that’s how it is in our sick society.

  14. Ms Kate

    Thanks Pony. Have keyboard will write.

    While I understand that it is necessary to bring attention to the fact that men may be raped, too, I would presume that is because being raped is a bad thing regardless of what equipment is involved. Why anybody would think it would be necessarily worse for men, beyond the potential cultural myth that rape only happens to women, is beyond me.

  15. TP

    The more men are raped, the more men will be walking around having some small idea of what women go through every day. Whether or not they ever connect this revelation to the common sense ideas of radical feminism is pretty dicey, though.

    I can only hope that being raped gives even the most insensitive man some small distaste for raping himself. Once raped, the fantasy is over. Once raped, a man can for the first time know that sex can happen without human dignity, and that losing that dignity is the opposite of arousal.

    But a man never deserves pity for being raped. After all, it’s not like he had sex. Unless he’s a gay man, it was just a little lesson in what it’s like to be treated like an object.

  16. Hattie

    Don’t forget how often women rape men and we don’t even hear about it.

  17. rootlesscosmo

    There’s a brilliant article, by a longtime prisoner, about rape in men’s prisons; it’s at

    http://www.spr.org/

    What the writer makes clear is that male prison inmates are either Men, who penetrate, or Punks, who are penetrated, and that a single instance of being penetrated turns a Man into a Punk, while nothing can turn a Punk into a Man.

    It’s Twisty’s concept of the Sex Class, without biological women but with the same rules. Hence (though I’m sure not consciously) the outrageous claim that “the effects can be devastating *especially* if you’re a male.” The effects are especially devastating because a woman who has been raped has been confirmed as what she already was, namely a member of the sex class, one of the rape-able, while a man who’s been raped is no longer a man but a Punk, or–more devastatingly still–a woman.

  18. Urban

    I want to believe this is a media misquotation: anything to ease the horrible pain of knowing that a woman speaking on behalf of such an organisation could possibly make a statement like that. However, I doubt it.

    Given that she probably did say it, she needs to lose her job. Quickly.

    It puts me in mind of the hoo-ha that errupted on UK TV a few years ago, when a mainstream teenage soap drama called ‘Hollyoakes’ portrayed (I think for the first time on British TV, but I could be mistaken) male rape. Letters were written, mouths were frothing, and the show was applauded for bringing the horror of male rape into the open. Of course, female rape storylines warrant no outcry because they are totally normal; even titillating for (some) male viewers, I suspect.

  19. Urban

    Of course, i didn’t mean the hoo-ha errupted on TV: the hoo was ha’d using multiple media outlets.

  20. Pony

    Yes rootless. There is nothing more devastating than to have been feminized by being penetrated, and the boys know it. It works in prisons and in wars. Nothing to do with sex at all. That’s why the defense of porn is such a crock of shit.

  21. tuckova

    I try not to pay too much attention to people who can’t keep track of their grammatical person.

  22. stormcloud

    It is *strange* how something isn’t a problem unless it happens TO MEN.

    The Fawcett Society indicates that only 15% of rapes (of women) actually get reported, which is roughly only one in six—so hardly ALL women coming forward in a stampede to report rape.

    Here we have a case of rapes happening to men (five times since April) so roughly ONE per MONTH. Compare those stats with the number of rapes reported by women (using TAR’s BCS 2003/4 figures), a mere 13,247pa— or about 1,100 per month.

    In the land of patriarchy, it seems that one man is worth 1,100 women.

  23. Mar Iguana

    “But a man never deserves pity for being raped. After all, it’s not like he had sex. Unless he’s a gay man, it was just a little lesson in what it’s like to be treated like an object.” TP

    ANYbody who gets raped deserves pity. Problem is, boys would rather be hated than pitied. Still. And, I’m doubting even a gay guy is going to just lay down and enjoy it. Rape is not something I would wish on anybody. Even on those who hate us so.

    “Don’t forget how often women rape men and we don’t even hear about it.” Hattie

    It’s probably because of our biased media, right? Oh well. I guess women will just never achieve full equality with the boys. Thank gawd.

  24. Luckynkl

    Men can be raped? Oh, you mean sodomized! Which is not quite the same thing as rape. Ask any woman that’s been raped and sodomized. Or are we going to combine the two at women’s expense just to be inclusive of men? So that men can claim they’re victims instead of the victimizer?

    Don’t forget how often women rape men and we don’t even hear about it.

    That’s because it happens so rarely, it’s not even worth mentioning.

  25. lightly

    “Whereas if you’re female, you just kind of expect it sooner or later”

    Lines like that are why I read this blog every day Twisty. I’m laughing through my tears girlfriend.

  26. Twisty

    Lucky raises an excellent point, the loony and super-denigrating idea that vagina = anus.

  27. Lya Kahlo

    “Or are we going to combine the two at women’s expense just to be inclusive of men?”

    Given what’s gone on around here lately I think it’s safe to say we’re apparently required to combine, redefine, etc whatever in order to be inclusive of men.

    Or else we’re hateful bigots.

    Apparently.

  28. rvcblame

    It’s kind of ike saying, “When someone goes through it, the effects can be devastating, especially if you’re white.”

  29. TP

    Vagina = anus. Absolutely loony.

    Rape happens to women, sexual assault happens to men. If I had my way, the word rape wouldn’t even apply to men because being penetrated by a penis in a non-sexual area of your body isn’t the same thing.

    I can understand gay men suffering from rape, but straight men can so easily disassociate themselves and their feelings from a sexual assault that the effect is much different. To pity a straight man for being raped is to assume that being feminized in a patriarchy is something to be pitied; as it also happens to be a normal state for the entire sex class, that’s simply spreading around a little too much pity for my pity glands to produce.

    A straight man who tries to understand the ideas of radical feminism can feel feminized by the patriarchy in other, more subtle ways, and it all blends together into a human disgust for the whole patriarchal kit and kaboodle.

    If the most viciously patriarchal men become so pornsick and perverse that they start to turn on their own kind to satisfy their inextinguishable lusts then that just means they will be leaving a few more women alone. Men raping men will never arouse my pity. But rapists will always get my bitterest hate and scorn.

    I still think even men who rape men should be fixed by removing their genitals. I think a rapist has something terribly wrong with his mind and body that can be fixed by the removal of the testosterone-producing glands and associated apparatus.

  30. Lya Kahlo

    “I think a rapist has something terribly wrong with his mind”

    I blame patriarchy.

    However, I agree with Mar. ANY victim of such abuse is deserving of sympathy or empathy (I am reluctant to use the word “pity”) – regardless. One group is not “more” victimized or “more” deserving.

    It shouldn’t happen to anyone.

  31. ginmar

    You think male rape victims will sympathize with female rape victims? Not if the shit I get on my blog is any indication. A standard feature is the way male victims—or their cheerleaders—-make up 1% of the total, yet demand all the time and attention. Then there’s the fact that the sort of male rape victims who demand feminist attention are also incredibly hostile to women—something that’s not allowed for female victims of male rapists.

    Every time you bring up rape, some guy pops up to go, “But what about the MEN?!” They’re not interested in forming their own groups, studying it, eliminating it, mind you. That would mean eliminating men raping women, which no sexist dude wants to get rid of. No, they just want women to eliminate men getting treated ‘like women.’ They don’t want to pick up after themselves, in other words.

    I had one guy who’s still fuming, a year later, when I called him on his statement that female rape victims were frothing, whining, man-haters. I find it impossible to believe that any rape victim would say that.

  32. Pony

    Good post you’ve got up on rape stats Stormy.

  33. Pony

    You can only confuse vagina with anus if you are thinking about this issue from the perspective of the penetrator. No need to be male for that to happen, as the RAINN spokesgourd has shown.

  34. Lya Kahlo

    Ginmar –
    I agree with you assessment of male attitudes toward female rape victims. They may not care about female victims; they may not be honestly interested in stopping rape. But, I would rather not be like those males (and plenty others).

    It shouldn’t happen to anyone. They are a tiny minority of rape victims, but they are still victims – not more traumatized, not more deserving of anything.

  35. annared

    “You can only confuse vagina with anus”

    If you don’t have a vagina – as I have heard many a time (from males) “Naa having a baby is the same as having a big shit”

    Having worked for ten years plus as a counsellor for rape/sexual assault/abuse – no disrespect meant to ANY survivors of sexual crimes.

    Just an observation

  36. Ms Kate

    Rape is about forceful power and control, no matter what orifice we speak of. To talk about vagina/anus gets away from the central truth of rape as a violent crime of force and power.

    To say it is different for men or can’t be as bad because they don’t have vaginas is to buy into the bullshit that tiny distinctions in definitions matter in this central equation of rape = violent force.

    So maybe it isn’t rape but date rape. Or it isn’t rape because it involved an asshole and not a cunt. Or it isn’t rape because there was no penetration, just a forced blow-job and not much else. What gets lost in this parsing is the simple fact that one person degraded another person to get their jollies, and used a sex organ in the process. What orifice was used probably does’nt matter if it was your orifice.

  37. Jennifer

    Yes, Ms Kate, thank you.

  38. Jennifer

    And let me just say this. I am a female, I’m 35 years old and I just do kind of expect it sooner or later. And, OH MY FUCKING GAWD, DOES THAT PISS ME OFF!!!

  39. bitter-girl.com

    I suspect bad quoting by the reporter. The entire section in question:

    Rapes aren’t always reported by men because “they’re afraid they may be perceived as homosexual, or their masculinity may be threatened,” said Lynn Parrish, spokeswoman for the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network. “When someone goes through it, the effects can be devastating, especially if you’re male. It’s important that they reach out and get help.”

    Parrish was in the middle of making a broader point about men’s attitudes in this society — that they will be seen as gay or less than manly if they are raped — when the reporter cuts out in the middle and goes on to the (yes, offensive when read by itself) “When someone goes through it…” quote.

    As Ms. Kate puts it: “Rape is about forceful power and control, no matter what orifice we speak of.” True. The men in question are young, and perhaps not as aware of gender- and rape-related issues as they should be. (article: “victims are in their late teens or early 20s and live with their parents. In each case the attacker has broken into the home or surprised the victim near the front door and forced him…”)

    After all, given its push for abstinence edjumication and other wackiness, I doubt Bush admin-approved sex ed classes touch on, let alone delve into, men being raped. Perhaps we should give Parrish the benefit of the doubt if she was specifically addressing her comments to the young men in question. She was trying to make the point that these men should not be ashamed to ask for help, something all rape survivors should know, not just women.

    And to continue with Ms. Kate’s thought, one person degrading another to get off in the context of a violent crime (the rapist in question also stole from the victims) is wrong no matter what orifice or instrument was used. Can’t we all agree that education, encouraging reporting, and making steps towards reducing (hopefully eliminating!) rape is the important issue here, not some bonehead reporter’s writing skills?

  40. Pony

    Unless you have heard the full taped response, you have no way of knowing what she was going to say or if the reporter misquoted or interrupted something. None. What you’re doing is what you accuse the reporter of; bad reporting based on assumption.

    “Parrish was in the middle of making a broader point about men’s attitudes in this society — that they will be seen as gay or less than manly if they are raped — when the reporter cuts out in the middle and goes on to the (yes, offensive when read by itself) “When someone goes through it…” quote.”

  41. bitter-girl.com

    Well, yes, Pony, but isn’t an assumption being made that her comment was meant to declare men being raped is much, much worse than women being raped? I don’t read it that way at all.

    I saw her comments (as presented) in the greater context of encouraging rape victims to get help, including those whose concerns are not usually addressed by the media but who suddenly found themselves in the spotlight thanks to this terrible news story.

    When’s the last time you read something in the mainstream media about male rape that wasn’t a salacious plot point in a story about prisons?

    Also, check out the comma, starred here for emphasis:

    Rapes aren’t always reported by men because “they’re afraid they may be perceived as homosexual, or their masculinity may be threatened *** , ***” said Lynn Parrish, spokeswoman for the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network. “When someone goes through it, the effects can be devastating, especially if you’re male. It’s important that they reach out and get help.”

    How’d she finish that first sentence? We don’t know… and we also don’t know what was said between that sentence and the latter one, if they were even said in that order at all, but the fact that there was a comma implies more was said. Personally, I’d love to hear the unedited transcript, but that probably isn’t going to happen. If it does come out and Parrish was going on a tear about how those poor, poor male victims deserve special treatment and sympathy because they’re male, then I say hang her high, but I don’t think she was.

    RAINN does a lot of good work. I doubt they employ complete idiots as spokespeople, whereas the mainstream media is chock full of reporters who like to break up quotes to make their stories spicier or to make *their* (the reporter’s) point.

  42. Twisty

    I posted this quotation, not because I think RAINN needs to fire anybody, but simply as an example showing that the patriarchal message is so deeply ingrained that even a rape victim advocate has trouble dis-internalizing it.

  43. Ron Sullivan

    … but the fact that there was a comma implies more was said.

    No, the fact that there was a comma means that normal punctuation was used. A comma normally appears before quotation marks when the quote is followed immediately by its attribution: in this case, that’s “she said.”

    The Dreaded Ellipsis, as seen at the beginning of the italicized quote up there, is properly used to indicate material omitted from a quote.

  44. bitter-girl.com

    My bad, Ron.

    (Perhaps the Dreaded Ellipsis could be the “Dread Ellipsis” instead? Then it would be easier to envision it in a pirate hat. Why I want to envision it in a pirate hat, I do not know, other than that it would be funny).

    Twisty, I catch your drift on even victim’s advocates having a difficult time dis-internalizing the sentiment, but how would you have had her phrase it? Men shouldn’t be afraid to report rapes, but they are thanks to stupid (dare one say ‘patriarchal’?) societal mores. So how do you get that point across in a pithy, media-friendly way?

  45. Twisty

    Don’t ask me, bittergirl.com; I am notoriously undiplomatic and unmedia-friendly, particularly when it comes to what-about-the-men. My response to a reporter would probably read something like “Rape is an expression of our culture’s hatred of women, and will never be gotten rid of until we overthrow patriarchy and its fetishization of dominance.” Or something.

  46. bitter-girl.com

    Twisty, I look forward to the day when the Star Telegram would print that. Or any big US paper, for that matter.

  47. Pony

    No bitter-girl.com, there is no assumption being made. She is quoted as saying

    “When someone goes through it, the effects can be devastating, especially if you’re male.”

    The effects can be devastating especially if you’re male.

    None of that is to deny that mistakes in quotes can be made. Also please note dear readers, the time and time and time we must take to defend ourselves, for merely pointing out there’s a female corpse in the hallway and a bloodied man running down the stairs.

  48. slade

    Thank you, Pony. Oh, and he’s carrying a gun…a smoking one.

    Especially if you’re male…damn. Men even feel pain more deeply than women???

    And WTF with these organizations being headed by men? Who’s the President of this one? Stan…Stan, the man, Berkowitz. For all we know, he wrote the statement and made Lynn, the Spokeswoman, read it. That’s how it works in the corporate world…send out the woman to read the statement cuz women are perceived as more honest as men.

    Same with the Ohio Planned Parenthood and the North American Menopausal Society….both led by males. I will never understand this.

  49. Ms Kate

    Same with the Ohio Planned Parenthood and the North American Menopausal Society….both led by males. I will never understand this.

    So, should they change their name to Planned Motherhood? I know guys who sought their services in high school, as the local clinic was a good source of free or reduced-price condoms and always the place to go when something wasn’t quite right with the equipment. I also know professors of medicine who worked first for Jane and later for Planned Parenthood because years of gender selection in medical school enrollment meant very few obstetric surgeons were women when Roe v Wade legallized abortion.

    As for any non-profit, your subject matter can never legally define your search for a top officer – or any employee for that matter. Even the Christian Science Monitor offers health insurance to it’s non-practising employees, and my husband teaches at a Catholic school. They were not allowed to ask him about his religion or lack therof at the time of his employment, either.

    You can never demand that positions be given to women on merit, then turn around and scream “no fair – he’s got a penis”.

  50. slade

    It’s odd. As a child, I thought it was odd when going shopping at our local department store to see a man as the manager….I used to tell my grandmother…’He doesn’t know anything about shopping or women’s shoes or dresses.’ Or tampons. Or menopause. Or birthing. Or cramps. Or bras. I always thought it was odd. Of course, now I understand perfectly. He’s got a penis and I don’t. And penises make money. And vaginas make babies. That’s fair.

    I wonder how many women are proctologists? Amd if the President of the Prostate Society is a woman?

    The guy heading up Planned Fatherhood in Ohio gave testimony in a state hearing saying ‘life begins at conception.’ I think it’s odd having a male testifying to what occurs in a woman’s body. And a male pontificating about hot flashes….well, it’s practically funny.

  51. Ms Kate

    Gotta admit, that menopausal society one baffles me. I guess he doesn’t have periods anymore?

  52. Pony

    That *would* be the male perspective on menopause: not having periods anymore.

  53. jami

    this is when the “asking for it” meme bites men in the ass, as it were. it would probably be devastating indeed for straight men to “ask for it” from a rapist, unlike women of any bent of course.

  54. Loosely Twisted

    That’s how it works in the corporate world…send out the woman to read the statement cuz women are perceived as more honest as men.

  55. Loosely Twisted

    Interesting it cut off the rest of my comment.

    Now I can’t remember what it was I was saying. Besides the fact that I thought women were the liars and men told the truth? Isn’t that what happens when we say we were raped, sexually assaulted and the like?

    I am so confused, and you know who I blame for it!

  56. grrr kitty

    OK, so when the appropriate offenders are prosecuted, their attorneys will be permitted to ask things like, what was he wearing, had he been drinking, where did the alleged assault take place (because if he was in someone’s hotel room at 1 a.m. he was clearly Asking For It. What else was he there for, Bible study?). And let’s not forget to ask plenty of penetrating (excuse me) questions about his personal life, because if he wasn’t a virgin to begin with, what’s the big deal, right?

  57. justicestarved

    Now, here’s something that jumps out at me. The attacker is “described as a light-skinned black man 18 to 21 years old, 5 feet 6 inches to 6 feet tall and about 200 pounds.”

    That’s an awfully big range in height. How is it possible that the alleged victims don’t know how tall their alleged attacker is? I’m with grrr kitty. Sounds like these boys had some bad sex and then decided to “cry rape.”

    Clearly, if they were telling the truth, all of their stories would match up exactly and we’d have a description of the alleged attacker in photographic detail. I mean, if what happened to them was so traumatic that someone ought to spend time in prison, then surely every minute detail would have been branded into their memories, never to be forgotten or overcome, right?

    Right?

  58. ginmar

    Lya Kahlo, don’t get me wrong, I don’t think anybody should be raped, either. But I’ll be damned if I let men brush off women when they suddenly discover it can happen to them, too—-much less let them get away with saying it’s ever so much more important when the victim’s a man.

  59. Lya Kahlo

    Then we do agree, Ginmar. I feel the same way.

  60. KTal

    A city newspaper journalist must scan through reams of material they must often gather on their own to turn into printable stories.(We’ll assume this reporter isn’t like many who glean their work from corporate news releases) Not only do they have no business having an agenda in their reporting, but frankly, I doubt they’ve got the time to think about an agenda.

    Also, as R. Sullivan says, an omission of quoted material is indicated by an ellipses. I doubt that there exists much more than that which was written, as more than likely the reporter made a couple phone calls, took some notes and put the story together. This wasn’t a magazine article.

    As Twisty states, what is most telling is the blithe way in which the quoted compares the experience of a man victim as opposed to a female. She did not say that in our society men’s burden as victim has some differences with females and that all rape, no matter what the sex of the victim is bad. Which is what she should have said.

    As the patriarchy is structured on strict adherence to a heirarchy based on dominance and exploitation, it seems no surprise that even in the victim of rape category, men and women are pitted against eachother and of course as par for the game, men win everytime. Even in rape victimization.

    That’s what the crisis center spokesperson unwittingly demonstrated so well.

  61. ginmar

    Good. Strange: I went to war and came back a pacifist. I guess.

  62. ps

    I wrote to Ms Parrish and inquired about the article. She says the full context of her statement wasn’t clear. The context of the “especially damaging” part was that raped men are less likely to seek help than women. She didn’t intend to suggest it’s more emotionally damaging to men, and urges any rape victim to obtain assistance.

  63. Luckynkl

    Oh, gimme a break. Since when are men quiet? Men piss, moan, whine and cry more than any woman I’ve ever seen. I’m really tired of men being portrayed as big, strong, he-men, that keep it all inside. What a bogus bunch of crap.

    Men just don’t run it by the brothers is all. Because the worse thing a man can admit is that he was treated like a woman. That opens up the possibility that other men might laugh at him. Which, to men, is worse than death. He doesn’t seek “help” because he knows that “help” is another bunch of bogus crap. Women, however, are really, really impressed by it. So he manipulates women with it. She doesn’t get how insulting he views it that he was treated like her. A lowly, contemptuous, woman.

  64. Luckynkl

    P.S. The odds are almost nil that a man will be sodomized. With regards to males, it is young males who are most likely to be subjected to it. IOWs, boys. That’s the power, privilege and fun of being a man. He doesn’t have to worry about such things. Because it happens so rarely, that it’s not even worth discussing.

  65. Mar Iguana

    I heard a news story a few years ago about three or four women whose daughters were raped by some mutant couldn’t get any help from authorities so they took matters into their own hands. They ganged up on him, hog-tied, gagged and stripped him. They then placed him on the side of a busy road where he could be seen by the morning commuters, on his knees with a broomstick up his ass and a sign tied around his neck saying “child rapist” or something like that.

    Of course, they were promptly prosecuted for kidnapping and rape while the mutant walked. Well, maybe he limped.

  66. saltyC

    The problem was they were too showy. They should have euthanized him with an overdose of heroin, so that it looked like he was a drug addict. Just a thought.

  67. saltyC

    Ooh OOH even better: Invite him into your home, shoot him, then say he broke in. Smash a window with a crowbar, wearing a glove, then press his fingertips on the crowbar. Make sure it was his crowbar, tell him you need a crowbar when you invite him over. And make sure none of it is over the phone, and no witnesses when you invite him of course. And don’t let any time in btw inviting him and him coming over, he might tell someone.

    OK here’s how: woman #1: knocks on door of perv(in costume of course as a Jehovah’s witness) whispers that woman #2 needs a crowbar to break into her house because she locked herself out. Right away. Perv goes to house of woman #2, sees woman standing outside who asks him to bust he window. She walks away when he does. Woman #3 inside invites him in to look at child porn. He crawls in, she shoots him. Perfect! Also, make sure to shoot in the face, and empty your gun in his head.

    Ahhhh dreams.

  68. Mar Iguana

    Problem there is the perp lived in their neighborhood and knew they were out to get him, on way or another. They wanted to make a statement. I think they succeeded.

    Don’t know whatever happened to the women or the mutant. The story kind of went away. Like they do. I think it might have been somewhere over in the East Bay. I tried goggling it with no luck but loads of creepie results. The boys are very hinky about the words “women” and “broomstick” mentioned anywhere near each other. Go figure.

  69. ginmar

    And I see Amp has lnked to a post criticizing this piece because the writer ‘cares about men’ and of course feminists hate men.

  70. Twisty

    A propos of bloggers linking to blogs linking to insane-sounding comments in otherwise reasonable blog posts and then going all apeshit: Man, I have had it up to HERE with this interblogular nitpicking. I say this as someone who has herself interblogularly nitpicked on more than one occasion. Having been on the bitch end of that dick recently, I have come to realize that there are nobler undertakings than pounding some dumb amateur auteur with the mean-spirited personal attacks, misconstruing, misreading, misquoting, and flat-out fabricating that goes along with these decontextualized snippets of commentary they like to paste into their self-rightous blog-police essays. Anyone who thinks IBTP is a man-hating site has failed to grasp the spirit of the blog and is invited to kiss my entire ass.

    Meanwhile, readers are welcome to hate their oppression here. That’s what the blame button is for.

  71. ginmar

    I’m getting sick and tired of the way people tee off on you and other more radical voices. Oppression is ugly, so how come so many people focus on the fight against it? Kee-rist.

    How come nobody but feminists ever bitch about woman-hating? It’s an epidemic. Let anybody point out bluntly that men get handled with kid gloves and all of a sudden, you’re a man hater for calling it for what it is: sexist coddling, at womens’ expense.

  72. julie

    I tell what I know as probably an older woman and what I think is happening.

    The feminists that we consider our older sisters wnated to help each other. They had always done this especially prior to the pill. They were basically popping babies out so they each helped the other with the babies and children while the men went to work.

    However, after the pill came a radical sex moment. Now men and women were free from having babies so orgies and one night stands became common. Especially with the younger women who we consider the radicals. Not all however. Some went extremely anti-male. Even so, married women and men were happy. They could have sex to their hearts content without having the babies. And the women had TV shows to teach other women how to enjoy sex.

    Unfortunately there were quite a number of females that were not happy with sex. They had never learn’t about it till they got married and felt it was a dirty thing to do.
    The education wasn’t there until the radicals stepped in.

    So a war has broken out between the 2 sexes and even between the sexes (women against women and men against men) and has been going on for 4 decades now because some women and men adapted to the change and loved it while others did not.

    This is still happening today with women flaunting it all and others being conservative. It is all about backlash. And every new generation challenges the prior generation.

    Unfortunately this generation have to find a way to balance the extremes. But sadly the extremes are so great, misandry and misongyny that it is hard to see where the balance will come from.

    Both sides hurt and both sides are happy. When I say this I mean that some are loving it and others are not. When we concentrate on our own sexes problems we don’t see the other side. And this is an obstacle. You are more equal in your pain than you know and equal in your anger.

    Life is but a journey of oneself. You have yet to grow till your 50′s. Then you will understand life a little better.

    But don’t forget your elder sisters. Even though they fought for rights, those that made the biggest changes were the ones that had loving husbands. We are burying these ladies today in HONOR.

  73. julie

    Oh, dear. had an argument with my sister about my comment. Instead of feminists popping babies out I should have said mothers. And the radical sex movement came from my country and not hers. See, it doesn’t matter how old you are the feminist movement can create arguments.

  74. Jewcakes

    “The more men are raped, the more men will be walking around having some small idea of what women go through every day.”

    Small idea? Although you can say firmly that no man has any idea what it’s like to be vaginally raped, the violent act itself doesn’t go in degrees by gender. Implying that women are more damaged by rape is just as irresponsible as saying that men are (I’m talking level of personal damage, not the number of people raped). Damaged DIFFERENTLY, possible, but let’s not dump on a woman who made an offensive statement, then make the SAME STATEMENT applying to the opposite sex.

    That’s my niceness, now: Implying that good can come out of anyone being raped is cruel, and I would imagine that any rape victim would get awfully offended by that, rightfully so.

    Even an eye for an eye only works if you’re attacking the criminal. Calling for rapists to get raped would have been fair, but encouraging the rape of any man, simply because he is a man, makes absolutely no sense. Not all women are rape victims, not all men are rapists, and saying that men getting raped gives them perspective is making a HUGE assumption that 1) male rape victims were unsympathetic to female rape victims before, and 2) that the best way to make them sympathetic is to rape them.

    Both are false. Obviously there are unsympathetic men, but you didn’t say them, you just said men, and every single man I know is sympathetic to rape victims, and I know a lot of men and boys. I’m not a census but if I can find them in Hickville Ohio, they exist elsewhere too.

    As for sympathy, exactly what kind of level of sympathy do you require? I mean, I’ve never been raped, but I can still be sympathetic. Not sympathetic enough? Would you like me to get raped, too, then? You do not have to be raped to abhor it, to feel for victims, and to recognize it as part of a larger, more dangerous theme in society. Just like you can be financially stable and fight poverty, you can be white and fight racism, I don’t have to make more comparisons, but you clearly do not and should not have to be raped to be sympathetic, whether you’re male or female.

    “But a man never deserves pity for being raped.”

    You’re right there. I also don’t deserve pity for being the white victim of racist slurs by black classmates, because I’m white. And you can’t be racist against white people because we started it.

    The end.

  75. Sílvia

    It is equally devastating for women as well as for men. This kind of statements shocks me. To me, as a woman, the normality is to live all my live without being raped and not the opposite.

  76. Caro

    Absolutely the vagina and the anus are not the same thing – but rape of the anus is JUST as horrible. I have been raped vagianlly and anally on two different occasions. The feelings were just as disgusting. The invasion felt the same. Horror, anger, pain and rage. And also it hurt physically more in my anus because obviously an anus cannot stretch the same as a vagina.

    And also what about male victims of childhood sexual abuse? Having worked with adult survivors of both sexes I would say the effects are identical. The post traumatic stress shows in the same way.

    I am certainly not saying this to defend men – and you are all very right – theat spokeswomen’s comments were a disgrace. Especially as I have worked in a similar capacity to this woman…..and we would NEVER have been allowed to say such destructive things.

    The instances of rape and abuse are at epidemic levels against women. And the primary abusers are indeed men. It IS seen as some kind of joke. I dispise the patriarchial view of female rape. I just wanted to tell everyone here that anal rape can be just as devastating to a victim – whatever gender.

  77. Brownie

    “Rapes aren’t always reported by men because “they’re afraid they may be perceived as homosexual, or their masculinity may be threatened,” said Lynn Parrish, spokeswoman for the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network. “When someone goes through it, the effects can be devastating, especially if you’re male. It’s important that they reach out and get help.”

    A whole helluva lot is wrong here. I’m surprised that no one has jumped on the statement, “Rapes aren’t always reported by men because…” blah blah blah. REALLY? You mean, unlike how rapes are always reported by women, and so it is especially important for them to seek help? THEM…the male victims who have all these reasons for not reporting being raped…unlike the women who have absolutely no reason for not reporting it. Male rape victims are scared of being laughed at, being called homosexual. Female rape victims are similarly scared of the repricussions of reporting their rape (beause they knew their attacker, their attacker can find them again perhaps?).
    Saying that male rape victims seek help less frequently than female rape victim and therefore we need to make especially sure that they seek help is bullshit.
    And, P.S., I feel that rape threatens my femininity, but she doesn’t seem to give a shit about that. She only cares about how it threatens the poor men’s masculinity. Its never happened to me, but it has to my mother AND sister. Neither asked for it, but it seems as though I can expect it. And that terrifies me.

    You can guess who I blame.

  78. Jack

    “A man never deserves pity for being raped.”

    Recently, I read a bunch of posts on a misogynist messageboard called menarebetterthanwomen.com. I’d say the main difference between most of the posters over there and many of the posters here is that they’re psychotic and you’re psychopaths.

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