Comments on: Old Line State becomes the Take Your Sweet Time State http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:56:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Vera Venom http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-36083 Vera Venom Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:25:23 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-36083 ". I would have to be really angry to do that, there must be more to the case that I’m missing. " Yes, you're missing that this woman had already been raped by another boy moments before this one. That guy was convicted of raping her. How exactly then is the second guy NOT also guilty of rape? Read it: http://www.courts.state.md.us/opinions/cosa/2006/225s05.pdf The first boy raped her, the second boys raped her. The amount of time he took to stop means absolutely nothing. It was rape from start to finish. “. I would have to be really angry to do that, there must be more to the case that I’m missing. ”

Yes, you’re missing that this woman had already been raped by another boy moments before this one. That guy was convicted of raping her. How exactly then is the second guy NOT also guilty of rape?

Read it: http://www.courts.state.md.us/opinions/cosa/2006/225s05.pdf

The first boy raped her, the second boys raped her. The amount of time he took to stop means absolutely nothing. It was rape from start to finish.

]]> By: Ledasmom http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35682 Ledasmom Sat, 10 Feb 2007 16:47:24 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35682 I remember reading, many years back, that the original Latin Maryland motto "Fatti maschii parole femine" translates more accurately as "Deeds are men, words are women", but I know little enough about Latin and cannot guarantee that this translation is more accurate. A quick and lazy Google gives the following list of translations: "Deeds are men, words are women" (Lord Calvert's day, 1622) "A woman for words and a man for deeds" (Maryland Manual, 1905) "Womanly (Courteous), words and manly deeds" (Maryland Manual, 1905) Strictly, "Deeds are males, words, females" (Maryland Manual, 1939) "Deeds are manly, words are womanly" (Unnamed State Archivist, 1969) "Manly deeds, womanly words" (State Legislature, 1975) "Strong deeds, gentle words" (Dr. Edward C. Papenfuse, 1993) Interesting, though hardly surprising, that the state has preferred to alter the translation rather than the motto. I remember reading, many years back, that the original Latin Maryland motto “Fatti maschii parole femine” translates more accurately as “Deeds are men, words are women”, but I know little enough about Latin and cannot guarantee that this translation is more accurate.
A quick and lazy Google gives the following list of translations:

“Deeds are men, words are women” (Lord Calvert’s day, 1622)
“A woman for words and a man for deeds” (Maryland Manual, 1905)
“Womanly (Courteous), words and manly deeds” (Maryland Manual, 1905)
Strictly, “Deeds are males, words, females” (Maryland Manual, 1939)
“Deeds are manly, words are womanly” (Unnamed State Archivist, 1969)
“Manly deeds, womanly words” (State Legislature, 1975)
“Strong deeds, gentle words” (Dr. Edward C. Papenfuse, 1993)

Interesting, though hardly surprising, that the state has preferred to alter the translation rather than the motto.

]]> By: octopod http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35624 octopod Sat, 10 Feb 2007 02:40:03 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35624 And count me as another voice in the chorus of, oddly enough, those who have a lot of wonderful things to say about some Turkish guy they dated. An absolutely sweet, considerate, gentle person, with astonishingly little trace of patriarchal bullshit despite the fact that he was brought up in a pretty traditional household. Whole family's a bunch of flaming socialists, but in terms of lifestyle quite old-fashioned. Still a dear friend. I put his lack of bullshit down solely to individual peculiarities like the fact that he's really smart and has a lot of social conscience, rather than to anything cultural, but the posts here are a pretty interesting look at that. And count me as another voice in the chorus of, oddly enough, those who have a lot of wonderful things to say about some Turkish guy they dated. An absolutely sweet, considerate, gentle person, with astonishingly little trace of patriarchal bullshit despite the fact that he was brought up in a pretty traditional household. Whole family’s a bunch of flaming socialists, but in terms of lifestyle quite old-fashioned. Still a dear friend. I put his lack of bullshit down solely to individual peculiarities like the fact that he’s really smart and has a lot of social conscience, rather than to anything cultural, but the posts here are a pretty interesting look at that.

]]> By: cassy http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35610 cassy Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:54:08 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35610 Count me among the majority of straight girls that was relieved that the message got through and it was only a couple of more thrusts. I never would of considered pressing charges. I would have to be really angry to do that, there must be more to the case that I'm missing. Count me among the majority of straight girls that was relieved that the message got through and it was only a couple of more thrusts. I never would of considered pressing charges. I would have to be really angry to do that, there must be more to the case that I’m missing.

]]> By: cassy http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35609 cassy Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:38:31 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35609 I read the Maryland ruling and was surprised that they got a conviction. It seems so hard to prove. In a basic case they do a DNA sampling and the guy is proven a liar. In this case it is more a he said/she said situation similar in difficulty to prove as an accident with no witnesses. How is the 'not quick enough' defined legally? It is a fair question. Law definitions need to be exact as possible. I've read the comments and I see the anger. I request clarification because it seems that people are mad that he was there in the first place, but he was invited. If there is a chance that he didn't hear because he was absorbed in what he was doing is it fair for him to go to prison for years? I blame the rape culture and think that there needs to be much more punishment. This particular example doesn't strike me as a good precedent. I read the Maryland ruling and was surprised that they got a conviction. It seems so hard to prove. In a basic case they do a DNA sampling and the guy is proven a liar. In this case it is more a he said/she said situation similar in difficulty to prove as an accident with no witnesses. How is the ‘not quick enough’ defined legally? It is a fair question. Law definitions need to be exact as possible.

I’ve read the comments and I see the anger. I request clarification because it seems that people are mad that he was there in the first place, but he was invited. If there is a chance that he didn’t hear because he was absorbed in what he was doing is it fair for him to go to prison for years?

I blame the rape culture and think that there needs to be much more punishment. This particular example doesn’t strike me as a good precedent.

]]> By: nisa http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35607 nisa Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:28:22 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35607 In the case of a man going soft in the deal, or pulling out too early, the woman has the right to insert a wire hanger into his penis to keep it firm, till she achieves her god given right to an orgasm. In the case of a man going soft in the deal, or pulling out too early, the woman has the right to insert a wire hanger into his penis to keep it firm, till she achieves her god given right to an orgasm.

]]> By: S-kat http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35593 S-kat Fri, 09 Feb 2007 21:57:59 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35593 I'm a frequent lurker here, but I don't believe I've ever commented before. However, this time I just wanted to add another "oh yes they can" story about pulling out. Just last weekend I took a boy home and fucked him, came a few times, grew tired and hungry before he had a chance to orgasm too and told him I was sorry, but I was done for the night. He rolled the condom off his still hard dick, got dressed and took me to the store to buy cat food (for my cat, not me) and dropped me back at my apartment without any to-do at all. This guy is a porn-watching, dude's dude, ex-Marine from south Texas who, I'm pretty sure, believes that feminists are mostly man-haters. He is not, however, a rapist. Shira -- I know you want to erase those pictures first and have heard enough of why you should dump the asshat, but I thought I'd appeal to your altruistic side by telling you that you're not doing him any favor by continuing a dead relationship. Really, it's just a waste of time on both sides. I’m a frequent lurker here, but I don’t believe I’ve ever commented before. However, this time I just wanted to add another “oh yes they can” story about pulling out.

Just last weekend I took a boy home and fucked him, came a few times, grew tired and hungry before he had a chance to orgasm too and told him I was sorry, but I was done for the night. He rolled the condom off his still hard dick, got dressed and took me to the store to buy cat food (for my cat, not me) and dropped me back at my apartment without any to-do at all.

This guy is a porn-watching, dude’s dude, ex-Marine from south Texas who, I’m pretty sure, believes that feminists are mostly man-haters. He is not, however, a rapist.

Shira — I know you want to erase those pictures first and have heard enough of why you should dump the asshat, but I thought I’d appeal to your altruistic side by telling you that you’re not doing him any favor by continuing a dead relationship. Really, it’s just a waste of time on both sides.

]]> By: Jess2 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35542 Jess2 Fri, 09 Feb 2007 16:16:47 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35542 Betsy-- yes it's weird that, for all it's manly, martial overtones, Turkish society doesn't regard kindness, gentleness or respectfulness as "feminine" attributes the way they are viewed in the US and much of Europe-- Turkish men are expected to display these qualities and are not regarded as wimps for doing so. Even where fairly strict gender norms apply, so far as I've seen they seem to occur in the absence of abject assholery. Turkish norms of regarding politeness and respect make openly meanie behavior like yelling or hurling personal insults quite taboo. Perhaps it's the holdover from Ottoman traditions that prized delicacy and courtesy in both males and females. Also noteworthy and different from the US: in Turkey, one frequently sees couples where the man is more 'attractive' (recognizing that is a loaded, subjective term) than the woman (one almost *never* sees that in US culture). We're friends with several Turkish couples wherein a movie-star handsome man is head-over heels devoted to a plainer (but brilliant, kind and funny) female partner. It seems Turkish men are actually capable of valuing a woman for more than her looks-- shocking concept, no? That being said, honor killings, forced marriages and the like still occasionally occur among godbags living in the Turkish sticks, much to the dismay of the cosmopolitan secular elites who like to pretend that stuff doesn't exist anymore. Also, I don't know for sure given all the recent changes made with an eye toward EU membership, but given Turkey's human rights record, I'd be willing to bet that their domestic violence and rape laws would make Maryland look progressive. Patriarchy still reigns supreme in Turkey, as it does everywhere. Betsy– yes it’s weird that, for all it’s manly, martial overtones, Turkish society doesn’t regard kindness, gentleness or respectfulness as “feminine” attributes the way they are viewed in the US and much of Europe– Turkish men are expected to display these qualities and are not regarded as wimps for doing so. Even where fairly strict gender norms apply, so far as I’ve seen they seem to occur in the absence of abject assholery. Turkish norms of regarding politeness and respect make openly meanie behavior like yelling or hurling personal insults quite taboo. Perhaps it’s the holdover from Ottoman traditions that prized delicacy and courtesy in both males and females. Also noteworthy and different from the US: in Turkey, one frequently sees couples where the man is more ‘attractive’ (recognizing that is a loaded, subjective term) than the woman (one almost *never* sees that in US culture). We’re friends with several Turkish couples wherein a movie-star handsome man is head-over heels devoted to a plainer (but brilliant, kind and funny) female partner. It seems Turkish men are actually capable of valuing a woman for more than her looks– shocking concept, no?

That being said, honor killings, forced marriages and the like still occasionally occur among godbags living in the Turkish sticks, much to the dismay of the cosmopolitan secular elites who like to pretend that stuff doesn’t exist anymore. Also, I don’t know for sure given all the recent changes made with an eye toward EU membership, but given Turkey’s human rights record, I’d be willing to bet that their domestic violence and rape laws would make Maryland look progressive. Patriarchy still reigns supreme in Turkey, as it does everywhere.

]]> By: Joolya http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35538 Joolya Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:31:33 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35538 Sexual frustration isn't fun for anyone. However, it is a sad fact of life that it exists and will continue to exist forever. Grown-up people just sigh, deal with it, and move on with their lives. Maybe they masturbate. Maybe they end a relationship. Maybe they just roll over and go to sleep ... I think it's apparent from this thread that there's significant evidence against the "impossible to pull out" theory of sexual intercourse, but I'll add my two cents anyway. It's totally possible and has no long lasting effects. No one has ever raped me (thank all the gods) but I've stopped mid-intercourse on a number of occasions, either because me or my partner was physically or emotionally uncomfortable. You know what's not sexy? A partner who doesn't want to fuck you. Unless, of course, you are a rapist. On that note, I've got to also say to Shira, DTMFA. Seriously. I don't even know the guy but from what you said upthread (rape porn, violent fantasies, murderous inclinations) the crazy you see is just the tip of the crazy-berg. Probably he has many nice qualities (benefit of the doubt) but being not-crazy isn't one of them. Then after you DTMFA I would recommend taking a very hard look at why you were attracted to him in the first place and what made you blind to the big blinking lights of crazy on him. I don't mean to be harsh, but we tend to repeat patterns in our lives and with our partners. The cycle can be broken! You can teach yourself to recognize the crazy before you get involved with it, and then steer very clear. Best of luck. And blamers, there is hope yet. I have to believe this. Sexual frustration isn’t fun for anyone. However, it is a sad fact of life that it exists and will continue to exist forever. Grown-up people just sigh, deal with it, and move on with their lives. Maybe they masturbate. Maybe they end a relationship. Maybe they just roll over and go to sleep …
I think it’s apparent from this thread that there’s significant evidence against the “impossible to pull out” theory of sexual intercourse, but I’ll add my two cents anyway.
It’s totally possible and has no long lasting effects.
No one has ever raped me (thank all the gods) but I’ve stopped mid-intercourse on a number of occasions, either because me or my partner was physically or emotionally uncomfortable.
You know what’s not sexy? A partner who doesn’t want to fuck you.
Unless, of course, you are a rapist.
On that note, I’ve got to also say to Shira, DTMFA. Seriously. I don’t even know the guy but from what you said upthread (rape porn, violent fantasies, murderous inclinations) the crazy you see is just the tip of the crazy-berg. Probably he has many nice qualities (benefit of the doubt) but being not-crazy isn’t one of them.
Then after you DTMFA I would recommend taking a very hard look at why you were attracted to him in the first place and what made you blind to the big blinking lights of crazy on him. I don’t mean to be harsh, but we tend to repeat patterns in our lives and with our partners. The cycle can be broken! You can teach yourself to recognize the crazy before you get involved with it, and then steer very clear.
Best of luck.
And blamers, there is hope yet. I have to believe this.

]]> By: ChapstickAddict http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35530 ChapstickAddict Fri, 09 Feb 2007 12:11:39 +0000 http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/02/07/old-line-state-becomes-the-take-your-sweet-time-state/#comment-35530 <i>but I need to delete some pictures he has of me before I cut him loose. </i> Ah yes, those unfortunate loose ends. I had to make sure to do that too, except (un)fortunately, I had a legal leg up on him because my pictures were technically qualified as illegal due to my age. So he deleted them pretty fast. <i>“No means shut up and leave me alone” will be the ground rules for my next relationship, if and when I return to something resembling heteronormative monogamy. I wasn’t old enough/aware enough to set boundaries in this one, and though I know am not responsible for his bad behavior, I have felt guilty and responsible anyway for awhile.</i> I am so right there with you. If I hadn't started going out with my current boyfriend so soon, I would've explored less heteronormative relationships, but he is one of those (rare?) really great guys. But I still feel those pangs of guilt when I am not in the mood for sex (of course, he just backs off and tells me not to apologize), and it's been about a year and a half since I last saw my ex. It was especially hard to admit the fact that what I had gone through was rape, considering the fact that I just never verbally said "no" (although I didn't say "yes" either). If you need any more unsolicited advice, or would like to talk to someone who's been through almost the exact same relationship thing, you can email me (check blogger info). but I need to delete some pictures he has of me before I cut him loose.

Ah yes, those unfortunate loose ends. I had to make sure to do that too, except (un)fortunately, I had a legal leg up on him because my pictures were technically qualified as illegal due to my age. So he deleted them pretty fast.

“No means shut up and leave me alone” will be the ground rules for my next relationship, if and when I return to something resembling heteronormative monogamy. I wasn’t old enough/aware enough to set boundaries in this one, and though I know am not responsible for his bad behavior, I have felt guilty and responsible anyway for awhile.

I am so right there with you. If I hadn’t started going out with my current boyfriend so soon, I would’ve explored less heteronormative relationships, but he is one of those (rare?) really great guys. But I still feel those pangs of guilt when I am not in the mood for sex (of course, he just backs off and tells me not to apologize), and it’s been about a year and a half since I last saw my ex. It was especially hard to admit the fact that what I had gone through was rape, considering the fact that I just never verbally said “no” (although I didn’t say “yes” either).

If you need any more unsolicited advice, or would like to talk to someone who’s been through almost the exact same relationship thing, you can email me (check blogger info).

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