A patriarchy with teats! That provides a great visual image. LOL! Now, the patriarchy gets our nourishing breasts… Is there anything those damn bastards won’t take?

~~~~~~~`

Now Ron what!? Your sister had a liver transplant. I’m so glad it appears to have gone well.

Then again, when my sister got conscious enough to speak and I asked her if she wanted ANS’s leftover bits, she said she’d better hold out for something a little less strenuously pre-owned.

“That’s where we differ, Octogalore. I think the system is so rigged that any power you get involves selling out. Marriage is one kind of prostitution, careerism is another. Of course those who can carve out some independence (always through some kind of privilege) have it best, but working within the rules of the system automatically perpetuates the system. Almost all of us have to do it to some extent, but it’s important to acknowledge the rot at the core.”

Roomaround: Are you not reading carefully? I said these ways DON’T justify the system. However, there are plenty of female entrepreneurs who have not sold out, haven’t kissed ass to get where they are, and who have not come from class privilege. I assume you have not met every female entrepreneur and don’t have firsthand knowledge of every employment situation. Don’t condemn a group you’re not part of and don’t understand, despite the temptation to find rot at the core of an apple from which you haven’t benefited. My saying there are some ways it’s happened without sucking the teat of the Patriarchy doesn’t mean the overall system, which does catch many in its net, isn’t corrupt the bulk of the time. My point is that assuming things like all marriage is prostitution, even where the woman is the rainmaker, devalues your many estimable arguments.

HP: why are the examples from your own life, eg being a whore for Uncle Sam, more valid than those from mine? I’ve been a whore for Uncle Sam, for the auto industry, and for numerous patriarchal legal clients. There are alot of patriarchal pimps out there. My business now is me and three partners. We’re not each other’s whores. When I made partner, I was given more equity than a male counterpart who’s senior to me, plays golf and also doesn’t stick out by being a feminist and democrat. I don’t love what I do, but I don’t think that the power I’ve gotten has involved selling out. Again, I’m not arguing that this is typical, or that I’ve never sold out, because I’ve done quite a bit of that. But painting all power women achieve as corrupt is counterproductive and, frankly, ignorant.

Here’s another one: The women of the dark ages who escaped (or were sent) to nunneries didn’t escape Teh Patriarchy because the Catholich Church is just another Big Daddy. I see these women as having joined a harem that (officially) didn’t require them to put out sexually, although many of them had to anyway.

Corportations are Patriarchs. Churches are Patriarchs. The Federal Government is a Patriarch. Of course, there is nothing gendered about being a cog in The System and both men and women may both benefit and suffer from it. The difference is that men play the game and as someone pointed upthread women are THE BALL. We are the prize commodity (het) men are chasing and trying to bring into their personal end zones. I trust that many of them wouldn’t get out of bed in the morning for their morning commutes if it weren’t for the pussy. More money means more of it, even when they’re married (the richer a married man is, the more likely he is to cheat on his wife).

Can I mix up any more metaphors? Help me out here!

Another example: I work in Engineering now but for several years I was the Recruiting Officer. When I counseled the Operations Manager about our aging workforce and (female) underrepresentation problem, he acknowledged that perhaps it was a good idea to hire some young female engineers so that the male engineers could have women to date/marry! He said this with a straight face. Do you think we hired ONE ugly, middle-aged or married woman that year?

IBTP.

That’s where we differ, Octogalore. I think the system is so rigged that any power you get involves selling out. Marriage is one kind of prostitution, careerism is another. Of course those who can carve out some independence (always through some kind of privilege) have it best, but working within the rules of the system automatically perpetuates the system. Almost all of us have to do it to some extent, but it’s important to acknowledge the rot at the core.

Roomaround — I hope and expect, the rich single friend thing is a joke. While there are women out there who do look for millionaire dating prospects, and I daresay some are on this site, I have above and would contine to advocate finding someone of roughly equal economic clout — to avoid, as you state so eloquently, the “control shit.”

Whatever your beliefs about women who “shuffle briefs” — I’m not one of them. I’m a partner in a small business in which I took close to no income for my first year, which I entered six figures in debt, and which required no fancy degrees. My husband shuffles briefs. I now outearn him by many multiples. I expect that this will garner no respect from anyone here. My point is not, as some will surely claim, to boast — but to say that there are ways to gain power in the system that don’t justify the system, don’t demand class privilege, and don’t rely on a rich man. Doesn’t make one an apologist. And it leaves me with little respect for anyone who would suggest I’m a man, and then ask me about rich friends.