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May 18 2007

But she was drinking

margs_el_gringo.jpg
The equivalent of consent: a couple of prickly pear margs at El Gringo.

Dig free rape porn? The Joplin Globe endeavors to give satisfaction. The Missouri paper, whose motto is apparently “It’s your girl. We deliver it,” titillated readers on May 10 (and for all I know it may do this all the time) with a graphic and truly gnarly description of a sexual assault. The Globe stringer was reporting on a court proceeding, but he might as well have been writing a rape fantasy scene for one of those ‘gritty’ dude-crime novels that always end up on the NY Times Bestseller List.

Although the perp in the case, who is accused of molesting and photographing an unconscious woman, was bound over for trial, Globe reporter Jeff Lehr was determined (a) to omit no lurid detail, and (b) to intimate that the 23-year-old victim had it coming to her. Lehr trots out the same tired old subtext: a chick who has a few drinks in public “of her own free will” should then expect to be “taken advantage of” while passed out drunk. If you’re a woman, drinking of your own ‘free will’ = “I consent to whatever abuse strikes your dudely fancy.” Of course the “but she was drinking” gambit is just a bit of shaming to rationalize male use of women. It works, not because it is logical, but because it is consistent with cultural narrative; a priori consent to male abuse, as we have seen, is implicit in the cultural construct “woman.”

Which is why our victim should also expect to have the graphic, humiliating details of her assault printed in the local paper.

Because rape is so hilarious, Globe reader Rick Tiberio was pleased as punch at the opportunity to read this crap. He sent in a grateful letter to the editor, confessing that he had to have a cigarette after reading it. Hilarious old Rick Tiberio should check out the online version; it comes with a handy ad for a casino depicting women as cleavage delivery devices. Nice.

[Thanks, Karley]

111 comments

2 pings

  1. curiousgyrl

    but she obviously should have known not to let a man pour her drink, the drunk slut!

    oh, wait. if she’d refused to let him, and insisted on doing it herself, she’d be an upity ice-cold bitch. I forgot.

    I hope Rick trips on his tattered terry cloth and pitches head-first into the reuplsive 70′s era ash can I envision gracing his back porch.

  2. kay

    “Mike Roberts, the defendant’s attorney, got the alleged victim to acknowledge on cross-examination that she went to El Charro with the Taylors and drank there of her own free will, and that she and Taylor’s wife asked him to go get more alcohol for them once they got back to the shop.”

    Since he had to get her to ‘fess up, she must have known she was the one in the wrong. Drinking on account of her own free will like that, as though if she had been drinking not of her own free will, her rape would not have been her crime, but his client’s.

  3. thisisendless

    I used to have a serious drug problem, and I have been “taken advantage of” on more than one occasion. (I have almost 5 years clean) I felt so much guilt at my own stupidity in those situations. BUT DAMMIT I AM SICK OF TAKING THE BLAME FOR THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR.

    Yes of course I shouldn’t leave my car unlocked in a parking lot because otherwise something might get stolen. Should the same thing not also be said for not getting wasted in the company of men? But people shouldn’t steal and men shouldn’t rape. And in the majority of the times that it happened to me I WAS IN MY OWN HOUSE. I didn’t pass out on the street somewhere. I was in my own house living my stupid messed up lifestyle when people who I vaguely knew from clubs or wherever would happen to drop by unannounced. And even if I had passed out the street somewhere, do I DESERVE to be violated?

    I mean anyone with any sense of decency would refrain from having sex with a woman who was clearly unconscious. right?

    It is difficult to tell which is worse in this type of situation. The actual violation, or the fact that I felt as though it was my fault. I should have expected it, boy am I stupid. etc etc.

    Anyway, I’m sorry to go off and this and use your blog Twisty as some sort of therapy venue. I just get so upset when I see these stories. I don’t understand how the fact that one is drinking somehow means that she DESERVES to be violated. I mean is a drunk guy just ASKING to be anally raped? (Although it does seem that in male society he is asking to have a gaucho mustache drawn on his face with a permanent marker) I don’t think the same standards would apply.

    And also, I want to thank you for this space. While I get very angry at these types of cases, I have to say I am ever so grateful for your analysis of the situation. Being here and reading your post actually relieves me of a lot of the guilt that I associate with my past experiences, and helps me focus the blame where is belongs. And for that I sincerely thank you.

  4. Zonk

    That poor woman.

  5. kay

    I’d really like to know where, in the genesis of the “if she got drunk, that proves she wanted it” myth, did the whole of culture pick up this idea that men everywhere are completely unable to make a responsible decision about not raping any given drunk woman.

  6. thisisendless

    Yes I agree Zonk. I hope she gets the justice she deserves.

    (Sorry my last post was rather self centered)

  7. b-file

    it’s the double standard, of course.

    she was drinking, so it’s her fault.

    he was drinking, so it’s not his fault…

    ibtp.

  8. thisisendless

    You know, Kay I really think it may come from the same line of reasoning that if you leave your door unlocked you deserve to get robbed. Therefore it is YOUR fault for not being more careful.

    Also there is a sense that if a woman is a drunk, then she is somehow not a worthy human being. She is morally corrupt and therefore deserves whatever it is she is asking for. The same thing applies to sex workers, as we saw with the case of the police officer who stalked that stripper, abused her sexually and then got away with it.

    This pervading theme of “worthy” and “unworthy” seems to permeate everything.

  9. Lou

    thisisendless, I’m sorry for your terrible experiences while you were in the grip of addiction. I hope this doesn’t sound too trivial, but I admire you for being able to make a cute joke about the gaucho mustache in the middle of recounting that. Congratulations on being clean. And you’re absolutely on-target with your observation about “deserving” it. What a world we live in, that most people can’t turn this paradigm around and simply say the person at fault is the one who rapes.

  10. thisisendless

    Thanks Lou. I appreciate that a great deal.

    Right after I hit the “Blame” button I wondered if my tirade was a little too much or not appropriate. So I apologize to anyone if that is so. I don’t participate in the comments section too much usually outside of reading them. This subject just hit a little closer to home.

  11. Zonk

    To be honest, i’ve seen some BRUTAL things done to men who passed out. I sometimes wonder if there wasn’t such a stigma around being “gay” would it escalate to anal penetration?

  12. Kayomi

    I believe stories like this make rape victims less likely to report the crime. Who would want to have something like this published, with all the details of your horrible experience, for other people’s enjoyment? Also, reading this, and I don’t know if this is true for everyone but it was for me, I kept thinking of my own experience and doing a comparison: “Oh my god I did that too, no wonder no one believed me” “I wish she would have reported it earlier” I didn’t report it early either, at least I’m not the only dummy” etc. Stories like this take victims back to what happened to them, and excite people who wish they could do it, but wanted more reason to act on their predatory impulses. Thanks Globe for this great public service!

  13. thebewilderness

    Whenever I hear about this sort of defense argument in court, I can’t help but wonder that the judge and jury never seem to comprehend that the defense is arguing that the defendant is asserting that they are a predator, and that when faced with any helpless person, they will assault and abuse them. That they are a sociopath, and that this is considered normal, appropriate behavior.
    That is what they are asserting. That is the message that goes out from the courts into the culture. That sociopathic behavior is the norm, and it is the responsibiltiy of the prey to protect themselves or shrug it off as the price they pay for letting down their guard.

  14. lawbitch

    Is anyone else grossed out by the fact that she was drinking with the perpetrator’s wife before the sexual assault? Perhaps the victim trusted this guy because he was her friend’s husband? It’s just creepy!

  15. lawbitch

    Maybe incidents like this are why Marriott thinks that women need their own floor? I want to vomit.

  16. Twisty

    Well, Marriott doesn’t care what women ‘need.’ They wish only to exploit women like everyone else on the planet. In this case they’re exploiting both women’s fear and their femininity, both, incidentally, patriarchal constructs. That’s some catch, that catch-22.

    Hey, this isn’t the Marriott thread. Whappen?

  17. Urban

    Thisisendless: “I mean is a drunk guy just ASKING to be anally raped?”

    Thank you. I am going to use this next time I hear any kind of fool argument about the woman being drunk as at all relevant to whether a man is a rapist.

    This turning around of reality so that the victim is seen as ‘contributarily negligent’ makes my blood boil. I’m reasonably sure the assinine confusion comes from the concept of contributory negligence in tort law and an attempt to use it as an across-the-board concept. Of course, its application to criminal law is ridiculous, and entirely one-sided in that it only appears to apply as a defence to rape. You know who I blame.

  18. lawbitch

    Sorry, Twisty. My mind connected these the Marriott and the women-who-drink-deserve-to-be-assaulted threads. Clearly, Marriott is exploiting fear for profit. I failed to articulate what I meant. I’ve been hanging out with boys and dogs today, and I’m just tired.

  19. kiki

    I’m surprised they didn’t just print the photographs. Sick.

  20. Sarah Z

    thisisendless, your type of comments are why I read the posters’ section of IBTP. I’ve never been in your exact situation, but stories like yours connect feminist theory and reality for me (though I don’t know why that connection should have to keep on being redrawn). I’m glad you posted.

  21. Feminist Avatar

    Today in Britland the Misogyny Press reported that fat girls should be glad of the attention when they are raped.

    http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=49517&in_page_id=34

  22. kiki

    Maybe incidents like this are why Marriott thinks that women need their own floor?

    So the fuckwits can add, she was asking for it when chose not to stay on the women’s floor.

  23. kiki

    Or my favorite, boys will be boys.

  24. Twisty

    Holy maternal unit of a deceased Nazarene, Feminist Avatar. I wish I hadn’t already used up today’s allotment of words.

    “Sheilagh Davies, defending one of three boys accused of raping two girls, said the 16-year-old girl had ‘slimmed down a lot’ since the alleged attack.

    She told Inner London Crown Court: ‘She was 12st 6lb – not quite the swan she may turn into. She may well have been glad of the attention.”

  25. LMYC

    Bewilderness, that’s precisely waht they’re asserting: men are assholes, every single one, and women are always at fault for them.

    Well you know what? After four decadse, they’ve convinced me of half of that: men are assholes. Every single one. I’ve bought that one whole — fine. You’re all disgusting predatory scum, beyond redemption.

    So I’m supposed to give you slack, sigh and endure, or else giggle and think it’s “cute” why, precisely?

    I’ve said this before — they believe men are all assholes and so they should be let off the hook. I think men are all assholes and so they should dangle on that hook permanently.

  26. lawbitch

    OMG! Asking to be raped because she lost weight. Fat chicks should be grateful for being raped. I’m so disgusted.

    BTW, when I said that the victim might have trusted the perp because he was her friend’s husband, I did not mean to imply that the victim was somehow negligent in her behavior. I was thinking out loud about how it seemed creepy that the perp’s wife was involved in the social drinking.

    Just wanted to make that clear.

  27. Sean

    I agree with curiousgyrl about the fuckwad Rick. I hope he accidentally (or on purpose, really) sets his polyester suit on fire.

  28. Ruth

    Kay said: “Mike Roberts, the defendant’s attorney, got the alleged victim to acknowledge”

    Where, Oh where, did this “alleged victim” nonsense come from? New to IBTP here and I’d like to go off on a whole tangent on this, I’m betting there is a thread about it already, can anyone point the way?

  29. Karley

    When I first read Rick’s letter at 12 last night, I couldn’t understand what the point was of his letter. I hadn’t read the original article and thought it was some typical fundy (there’s a LOT that write to the Globe) complaining about teh liberal media reporting a story that mentioned the word S-E-X or its variants.

    Then I read the original article, and I realized his point. Thanks for the wank.

    Blatant misogyny is run of the mill for the Globe’s letter page. Just a few months ago some genius figured out the ONE TRUE CAUSE of all of America’s social problems. Here’s a hint: it rhymes with "buppity lemon".

  30. Karley

    Gah. “Thanks for the wank” needs to be in quotes.

  31. Karley

    Third post in a row- although I don’t think anything in the Globe compares to THAT. THING. from the Metro.
    I’m going back to the woods and never coming out.

  32. Grumpybear

    What is this Globe? And where can I find one? I need something to sop up the condensation from the steam shooting out of my ears. Really, though, is this a publication? Has it sparked any public outrage?

  33. stekatz

    I don’t think I can stomach reading the article. This much I’m sure of without reading it: I’m sure if the asshole in question had chosen instead to rob a man who had passed out drunk instead of raping a woman who had passed out drunk they would have thrown the book at him.

  34. Twisty

    Ruth:”Where, Oh where, did this “alleged victim” nonsense come from? New to IBTP here and I’d like to go off on a whole tangent on this, I’m betting there is a thread about it already, can anyone point the way?”

    I’ve got chemo-dementia, so I may not be recollecting properly, but I don’t think we’ve covered this specifically. Knock yourself out, Ruth.

  35. Karley

    The only time the Joplin Globe sparks outrage is when something in it fails to affirm the fact that their conservative readers are the only people of any significance in this world.

  36. thebewilderness

    LMYC,
    I agree with what you are saying and have said befor.
    The point I was trying to make is that this defense is an admission of being the very perp that the criminal justice system was purportedly created to protect society from. It seems to me that the apropriate response to this sort of defense would be for the judge to inquire if the defendant was changing his plea to guilty. Instead they appear to be turning the judicial process into a nudge, nudge, wink, wink, nuff said, travesty of justice. I had a little light bulb moment when I realized that this process of admitting to a crime while everyone pretends you didn’t admit to the crime, is the way the rape culture is reinforced by the courts.

  37. Moira

    Where, Oh where, did this “alleged victim” nonsense come from?

    It’s part of the ‘oh, the slut wanted it bad enough at the time’ defense. She’s the only one saying that a crime happened, so referring to her as the ‘alleged victim’ helps to promote doubt that she was actually raped. She didn’t say no, did she?

    Which is why we need Twisty’s rape law. And just to repeat for the men? Fuck you. We’ve had thousands of years of things being vastly unfair in your favor. Learn to cope. And to control your goddamned urges.

  38. Tanya

    This story made me very pissed when I read it and it brought back some rather unpleasant memories. I mentioned to an ex that I had been sexually assaulted and he wanted details. I said “Hell no”. The last thing I was going to do is describe, in detail, a painful and humiliating experience. It didn’t occur to me at the time that perhaps he would enjoy hearing the details. But after reading that wankers’ letter. Ugh. It connected the dots for me. Men wank off to images of hurt and humiliated women. It’s horrifying.

  39. thisisendless

    I agree Tanya. I don’t understand why so much porn is based on humiliation. Like it isn’t sexy if she is an equal partner? Well I guess I know the answer to this after frequenting IBTP. But come on.

    That whole bangbus thing and Girls Gone Wild makes my skin crawl.

  40. thisisendless

    oh and thank you Sarah Z. I appreciate your comment.

  41. kanea

    if you read the DVM or DMV (its a psychologist’s diganosis book and I forget what it’s called exactly) sociopaths (or antisocial peopleif we’re being PC) discription seems like the sterotypical young male. but that’s not suprising that our culture breeds males to turn out to be the group mostly likely to commit the worst crimes and be the most hardened of criminals. so if the deffinition in the book is true we living in a country were the majority of males are sociopaths. (someone was talking about sociopaths before)

    this victim was asking for it crap makes me sick.the victim never asks for it, because if victims are asking for it, the victims of other crimes must be asking for it. victims who are men. so I had this thought experiment men beat us, harras us, rape us, hell they even beat, rape and murder each other. in a sane world people who commit horrible acts like this get put in jail or punished in some way or other, but in our insane world they aren’t(at least not usually). clearly they must be asking for a beating/ neutering/ exicution. so if a woman was to giving an ass wopping/ castrate/ kill a man who raped her/ harrased her/ looked at her/ was a man in public. she wasn’t doing anything wrong he wanted it. hell, she was just doing want the guy asked her to. somehow I don’t think that’d ever work in court. and I don’t think victims ever ask to be beat, killed, raped.

  42. slythwolf

    It’s true, and it’s fucked up, that for some reason in a rape case the question becomes whether a rape occurred, not who committed it. In a murder case the question is rarely, “Are we sure this person was murdered?”–the only exception being the occasional, “Could this be a suicide?” which doesn’t apply to rape because obviously a woman can’t rape herself.

    I defy anyone to name a single crime other than rape where the victim, going to the police and saying, “This crime happened to me,” is then automatically and routinely disbelieved in the name of “innocent until proven guilty.”

    Okay, I stand corrected–domestic violence, sexual harassment, stalking. Really, all parts of the same whole, no? Things men do to women because they believe they own us. Makes me sick. Sick. IBTP.

  43. ::wendy::

    I may never even begin to understand why this systematic violence against fabulous, valuable, people – women – is an internationally unacknowledged ‘(un)natural catastrophe’.

    Can I do more than stand up for myself and those immediately around me? I feel as though I am complicit in this disaster by not overtly speaking out on a broader platform. I speak out in my work place and in everyday situations. I find women who are unaware of their personal value, that have experienced the male blame-woman discourse, seek me out as an advocate. Beyond attempting show them ways that their understanding pf their lack of self-efficacy was imposed on them I am not helping. I try not to be complicit. I know that is not enough, I know I fail, awareness is not enough. I don’t know what I should be stepping-up to.

    I have no path to a vision of no patriarchy…

  44. Bitch, Esquire

    thebewilderness wrote: “Whenever I hear about this sort of defense argument in court, I can’t help but wonder that the judge and jury never seem to comprehend that the defense is arguing that the defendant is asserting that they are a predator, and that when faced with any helpless person, they will assault and abuse them.”

    Wow. You have just blown my mind. Now I almost want to become a prosecutor just so I can use this argument.

    To touch on the central issue: madonna, or whore. If she’s morally bankrupt (i.e., drinking), she magically falls in the latter category, because she left herself open to being ‘used’ by her drinking[*], and therefore, a rape can’t have occurred, because she’s of the sex w/all comers class. Which is not all that different from the sex class in general.

    ibtp.

    [*]So, by definition, anything that leaves a woman open to sexual assault is not only her fault for making her physically vulnerable to assault, but her fault because whatever it is that made her physically vulnerable signalled her membership in the sex w/all comers class by its existence.

    This is insane. Do little kids lead pedophiles on? No. Why is this different? Patriarchy.

  45. Urban

    It should come as no surprise to anyone that The Metro is owned and run by the same folks as The Daily Mail. Ugh. I can barely type the titles without feeling nauseated.

    That article is sick, sicker than words can describe. How? How could anyone, let alone woman lawyer, stand up in court and argue that fat girls would welcome the attention of gang rape? I think this is a new low.

    It brought back unpleasant memories for me of the sentencing I had to watch in court as a young law student. Long story short, grotesque asshole man had been frequently raping his sister since she was a little girl, over a period of time covering 10 years. Grotesque asshole man pleaded guilty. Judge handed down sentence of 3 years PROBATION. To this day I cannot get the girl’s face out of my mind.

  46. Caukee

    Ah, the entertainment value of rape. Which brings us around to Genarlow Wilson. I got bupkis with your search, which surprised me. He’s very popular. With so many stories to choose from, I thought I’d tie it in with several comments I’ve seen by feminists who say they like columnist Leonard Pitts’ “liberal stance”. As far as I can tell, when it comes down to it, he’s all about the men. Try his take on GW:

    http://www.miamiherald.com/285/story/60572.html

    Where he joins most of the world [just Google GW ] in complaining that Genarlow Wilson is not guilty of anything more than a little “boys will be boys” lack of good judgement. Which appears to be the consensus – online and off-. He and his friends raped by “engaging in”* oral sex with a 15-yr-old girl and were accused of gang-raping a drugged 17-yr-old woman. And videotaped them. No doubt to enjoy reviewing the rapes for entertainment later. Bonus ! Free porn !

    *Later reports prefer something like “he received oral sex from her”, in a fine bit of victim-blaming weasel-speak.

    The 17-yr.old who pressed charges was completely disregarded, like most rape victims. Aquittal for the usual reasons. Entering the same room as men is consent enough, as we know.
    Apparently the “consent” of the 15 yr. old female, which legally does not exist, [nor does that of the other, heavily-drugged woman, of course] is all that’s needed to make Genarlow a victim. His buddies pled and got lighter sentences. The jury convicted him for the younger girl, because if they follow the law they have to, but now are screaming bloody murder that the sentence – 10 years – is too harsh, and how awful that the Promising Football Star’s career is over before it’s started. *Stops to mop up tears* Everyone is to blame – except Genarlow.

    I’m sure that these female persons will suffer no ill effects from all that fun and public condemnation. Women are not the victims of criminal acts, not worthy of compassion and justice, merely scenery in the drama of another Nice Guy screwed by those demon women out to get him, and by the evil racist prosecutors who had the effrontery to try to convict him of rape. The district attorney in the case, David McDade, puts it pretty clearly, saying, “Six young men basically gang-raped a 17-year-old and had repeated sex acts with a 15-year old. There’s no member of the legislature that I think would condone that behavior.”
    Wrong. They’ve already changed the law so that 17-yr olds who have sex with 15-yr-olds can continue to do so without being inconvenienced. The man who has the power to adjust the sentence of Genarlow won’t do it unless the young man admits he did something wrong, which GW is too entitled to do. Every person who dares to suggest that this is not a “tragic miscarriage of justice” is being attacked by the vast army of rape apologists conveniently located on your nearest internet.

  47. Dates Bubbas

    Raping is wrong no matter how you cut it.

    However, so is going out and getting so drunk you pass out – if you’re out cold you’re unequivocally at the mercy any drunk dickhead who’s now lacking all inhibition – if he had any to begin with.

    I’m not saying anyone deserves to be violated when they’re drunk, but these days you’d think we’d all have learned to keep our eyes on our drinks, and not drink so much that we can’t stand up or keep our eyes open. Sympathy for stupid people shouldn’t be limitless.

  48. thisisendless

    Dates Bubbas, How is getting drunk morally “wrong”?

    It is bad for your health and irresponsible to get drunk to the point of passing out. But it is not morally wrong unless you are affecting dependents like children or other family members or loved ones.

    Alcoholism is a disease and it actually affects women faster and more intensely than men because we lack a certain enzyme that breaks down alcohol effectively.

    Aside from that, yes we are in a world where we have to watch out for predators but WE SHOULDN’T HAVE TO.

    You just basically but the blame firmly on a the person who gets drunk. NOT ON THE RAPISTS.

    Anyone with any moral culpability is not going to rape someone who is unconscious. Being drunk does not make it ok.

    Most times, abuse of substances has nothing to do with “being stupid” it has to do with an uncontrollable compulsion. If you are not an alcoholic of course you find this difficult to understand. But alcoholics are not “stupid” they are sick.

  49. Ron Sullivan

    Datesbubbas, is getting drunk wrong only if you’re a woman? (The “passing out” part might actually be a virtue in men, evidently.) OK, so is going around unarmed also wrong? If you’re a woman, I mean.

    …these days you’d think we’d all have learned to keep our eyes on our drinks

    How old were you when you learned that? How guilty were you before you reached that age?

    Oh — You might be right, thisisendless, but one doesn’t have to be an alcoholic to be drunk. Even people without uncontrollable compulsions get drunk sometimes. It’s only a crime if you’re female. It’s evidently an excuse if you’re male.

  50. thisisendless

    Good point Ron.

    I didn’t intentionally imply that you have to be an alcoholic to get drunk or anything.

    And I fully agree with your assessment. It does indeed seem to be an “excuse” for men, whereas is it the cause for blame in women.

  51. Errihu

    Please allow me to play devil’s advocate for a moment. I don’t believe bubas was attempting to blame the victim, I believe he or she was asserting that it is a poor idea to drink to the point where one completely loses control of one’s self. To the point where one is completely unable of any effective fighting back or resistance if a drunken man decides now is a good time to rape someone.

    Yes, it shouldn’t be the case in the first place that a man can rape anyone, regardless of their physical or mental state at the moment. However, we know that men rape, and we know that drunk men are often willing to perform a rape that they would insist they’d never do sober. And even sober men seem to think that rape is ok if the victim is drunk. Bearing this in mind, it’s probably a good idea to avoid losing total control of oneself around men.

  52. Errihu

    Of course I could be wrong, and Bubas could just be trying to repackage blaming the victim in yet another “she was drunk, she was asking for it” spiel.

  53. RadFemHedonist

    “…these days you’d think we’d all have learned to keep our eyes on our drinks”

    How victim blaming can you get? If I was out I would try and keep an eye on my drink, but let us get back to the rapist, the shithead who did the rights violating thing.

  54. Miller

    I don’t know if others have commented on these points, but: I for one say we drop the rhetoric of “equality” and use “humanity.” Men hear “equality” and think, “Are you fucking kidding me? What have women done that compares to the accomplishments of men?!” Tyranny depends on dehumanization and demonization to justify itself. If you make them realize all the rationalizations depend on the belief that women and girls are not human, you have a better chance of, maybe not convincing them, but stunning them into doubt over their assumptions.
    We should also attack the use of “asking for it” and replace it w/ “she deserved it.” That’s what rape fan-boys believe anyway, “She has committed a moral crime against society and I, as the legitimiate judge, jury, and executioner, enforce the law. You broke the rules, you pay the price.” We’re stuck in this defensive mode in which we have to justify ourselves against the question society asks us, “Why don’t you deserve to be raped?” It is the person who wishes to encroach upon rights who must justify themselves, not the targeted person.
    Obviously apologist justifications doesn’t apply to thievery, though. You can drive a luxury car in a society that considers them status symbols and not “deserve” to be hijacked. Stealing your property is a crime. Invading the very body of a female, resulting in her kidknapping, brutalization, and psychological and physical torture, fluids being forcibly injected that could infect her w/ a disease (even lethal HIV/AIDS) and/or impregnate her, and traumatizing her for life is…impolite.
    If rape is so instinctive to men, why do they insist of rules of moral conduct for women as a defense mechanism? Isn’t our very act of being female the trigger for such a “biological” phenomenon? Where is this catalogue of rape-proof wardrobe or a book on rape-proof behavior that will ensure our safety on a universal level? Where is there evidence that men have a genetic trait (or culture) that prohibits them from taking advantage over someone who’s biologically weaker than them? Even in Afghanistan, where to be female is to be hidden and locked away men still rape. The only recourse left is to kill ourselves to avoid being punished for our “immorality” (which Afghan women and girls are doing), which results in the suicide of the species. Yes, that seems to be the essence of “natural.”
    I wish someone had the guts to say that misogyny is not as bad as racism or anti-Semitism–it’s a hell of a lot worse. I’ve experienced racism first-hand. Racism is casual discrimination. Misogyny is casual hate crimes (rape is a damn hate crime, no matter what the pending hate crimes bill says) and an everyday threat of a brutal death (God, who doesn’t worry about her safety when she walks past men on the streets?).

  55. Bonnie

    I think Dates Bubbas is being disingenuous.

    In the spirit of heightened moderator oversight, is this ban-able? I mean, victim-blaming for lard’s sake!

  56. Pellegrina, Apprentice Blamer

    Maybe they should just add a new health warning to the labels of alcoholic drinks stating that by drinking more than one unit of alcohol a woman is consenting to be raped, as well as ensuring that any unintentional offspring she may harbour as a result will get foetal alcoholic syndrome. Pfui.

  57. Miller

    Oh, one last note: Sexuality emboldens, not replaces, misogyny. Rape is the ultimate example of a sexualized hate crime. Sexuality is a medium exploited by bigots to deepen and spread intolerance and hate (think: Jerry Falwell and religion). If white supremacists masturbated before, during, or after the lynching of a black man the sexuality expressed does not replace the racism at center. Sex is a force more powerful than religion. Fundamentalists use religion to spread his gospel of hate, dismissing those who opposed him as anti-God. Misogyists use sexuality the very same way, but exploit a power that defines the very identity of every person on a biological level. Porn exploits the highly sensitive reflexes of the male libido to deeply entrench the necessary hostility towards femaleness for an orgasm to occur. Remember, you can trigger a dog’s mouth to water at the sound of a bell if it has been conditioned to expect a treat. The power of harnessing an orgasm is much more dangerous. The intertwining of sexuality and violence (a rape-fest played out in just about most rap videos and mimicked by countless boys) is so locked down today that the overwhelming majority of men believe rape to be the defintion of “manly” (therefore, legitimate) sex. And since only men may define universal values, rape is now the only “sex” allowed. Bigotry as custom has become nature, as female lives are sacrificed at the Temple of Misogyny. It’s like a scene out of the Aztec empire, where humans were butchered (literally shredded apart by dull blades and rocks) to appease the Gods.
    I’ll say it again: write letters to the editor of your papers. Write about their blatantly biased language (“disrespect” or “vulgar” to describe bigotry, intolerance, hate, extremism; “foul language” to describe slurs). I’m writing up a storm out of desperation but a few letters won’t do. Letters from groups of people might. We’ve got to try something, anything. I say we continue ripping apart articles like the one mentioned in this post and then send out e-mails to the editors. I just don’t want to feel so helpless anymore. Everyday I’m reminded that I have no control over my life, as any man can choose to punish me for the inherent vice of being female. NOW is a facade of a lobbying group. Liberal/progressive men are a joke (Sen. Kennedy has been on record saying rapes were hate crimes. Beating up gay men are. Beating up and raping women are not.). Dreams of gaining superpowers have failed to come to fruition, so here I am. Shit.

  58. therealUK

    Don’t you American’s have a phrase “driving while black” ? I’m reminded of it everytime the rape apologists come out. Only in this case the crime is “existing while female”.

    “Existing while female” and all the variations on the theme (drunk female, improperly dressed female, uppity female, ugly female, bimbo female, thin female, fat female ….)

    It’s all victim blaming and all getting away from the reality:

    MAN rapes.

  59. Miller

    Oops, Sen. Kennedy said rapes were NOT hate crimes (he also alleged that some are just misunderstandings).

  60. RadFemHedonist

    I don’t know if others have commented on these points, but: I for one say we drop the rhetoric of “equality” and use “humanity.” Men hear “equality” and think, “Are you fucking kidding me? What have women done that compares to the accomplishments of men?!”

    They think THAT!? Yet more to be appalled by. I always say liberation, by the way.

    Rape is most definitely a hate crime, I don’t think it should merit a worse penalty than non-hate crimes because of that, it should merit a loong jail sentence because it is a violation of body rights. The thing I don’t like about the hate crime concept is it’s thought crime angle, it isn’t worse to rape/murder one person than another, I’m no libertarian, but you shouldn’t be a criminal for your thoughts, no matter how jackassy they are.

  61. MzNicky

    Ruth: The descriptor “alleged victim” is a legalistic/journalistic turn of phrase. It indicates that, at this particular time, as far as a court of law is concerned, the victim is only alleging that she was a victim; she’s not yet actually been adjudicated a victim. That will happen when and only when the court finds the defendant guilty. This is to protect the newspaper from a possible future libel suit for having called her a victim if the rapist is acquitted. It’s used for “alleged” criminals, too.

  62. christy

    Okay, so we all agree that this article deserves every damning expletive we can think of, yes? Well then, let’s do something about this bullshit!

    I was so pissed that I wrote a letter to the editor of The Joplin Globe. If the people who are publishing this drivel don’t know how strongly we all feel about what they’ve done, they will keep doing it. They will probably keep doing it anyway, but maybe if enough people complain it will have some effect. Let’s not be silent about this!!!

    Here is the link to the contact page:

    http://www.joplinglobeonline.com/zope/contact_us.php

    And here is what I wrote to the editor:

    I just read the article titled “Woman says man photographed, molested her” by Jeff Lehr. I found no news in it, only some free rape porn. Why is it so important to describe each specific detail of what this woman experienced? Have you no respect for her suffering? Why does this story focus solely on the victim? It’s as if she were on trial for the perpetration of a crime, as if what happened was her fault: “Roberts asked if she went out with Taylor’s wife in order to discuss troubles she was having in her marriage. She denied it. Roberts asked if the Taylors and she had discussed the possibility of engaging in sex games at the shop. She said she did not remember any such conversation.”

    This article sickens me. It is disrespectful all women, and whether you know it or not, it has lowered you as well. With this article you have revealed to the world that your writing/editorial staff are a group of perverts who are so deluded that they actually think this is journalism. What is the intended message of this story? What information are you trying to convey to the public? I would truly like answers to these questions.

    How about writing a story about how 95% of all sexual violence is directed by men towards women, about how 1 in 4 women have been raped by a man, about how a the average pedophile has over 100,000 victims over the course of his life, about how media largely ignores that violence against women is a hate crime.

  63. TP

    Porn exploits the highly sensitive reflexes of the male libido to deeply entrench the necessary hostility towards femaleness for an orgasm to occur. Remember, you can trigger a dog’s mouth to water at the sound of a bell if it has been conditioned to expect a treat. The power of harnessing an orgasm is much more dangerous. The intertwining of sexuality and violence (a rape-fest played out in just about most rap videos and mimicked by countless boys) is so locked down today that the overwhelming majority of men believe rape to be the defintion of “manly” (therefore, legitimate) sex.

    Thanks you, Miller for saying this so well. You have encapsulated my viewpoint so perfectly I can hardly believe it.

    Commercial culture is rapidly turning men into misogynist machines. All because sex sells – sex gets human attention easily, and attention is money in a culture gone mad with endless distractions everywhere.

  64. TP

    MzNicky, isn’t it interesting that rape is the only crime where the accuser is alleged? Otherwise it is only the criminal who is alleged. It illuminates the whole bias of the court of treating victims of rape as potential perjurers, not victims.

  65. slythwolf

    Miller, I couldn’t read your posts after this:

    Men hear “equality” and think, “Are you fucking kidding me? What have women done that compares to the accomplishments of men?!”

    This is called “devaluing women’s work” and I don’t think enabling it in order to gain a small concession from anti-feminists is productive. The reason things like raising all the children and cooking all the food are not considered valuable is not that they are not valuable but that they are done by women. If women had not done these things, men would never have accomplished anything, so they can shut the fuck up. And how are men to consider women human without thinking that feeding civilization and raising its future generations is valuable?

  66. MzNicky

    TP: I’m not sure that “rape is the only crime where the victim is alleged” (I’m not a lawyer), but it sure wouldn’t surprise me. Again, in legal terms, she’s not technically a “victim” until the case is proved. But as you point out, how often do you see the self-proclaimed victim of robbery or assault described as “alleged”?

  67. PhysioProf

    “The thing I don’t like about the hate crime concept is it’s thought crime angle, it isn’t worse to rape/murder one person than another, I’m no libertarian, but you shouldn’t be a criminal for your thoughts, no matter how jackassy they are.”

    There is a way of thinking about hate crime legislation that reconciles it with longstanding tradition in criminal law, and leads to the conclusion that hate crimes are no more “thought crimes” than any other traditional crimes.

    Almost all crimes require as a legal element for conviction that the accused have been in a particular mental state when the actions occurred that are the subject of the crime. For example, there are many different crimes that involve as the action the killing of another person: first-degree murder, second-degree murder, negligent homicide, manslughter, etc.

    The action in all of these crimes is the same: the accused did something that caused the death of another. But the severity of the crime–and the penalty–is very different depending on the mental state of the accused when he performed that action.

    To the extent that criminal law reflects societal norms, we as a society have decided that it is more blameworthy to have killed someone intentionally, than to have done so recklessly. And in the context of intentional killing, we have decided that it is more blameworthy to have planned in advance to kill someone, than to have formed that intent more suddenly.

    The penalties for these crimes that are distinguished solely by the mental state of the accused (“mens rea”, for those who give a shit about latin legal lingo) vary according to their relatively blameworthiness.

    Making penalties more severe for crimes like assault, vandalism, etc., when it can be established that the accused was animated by a mental state characterized by (1) hatred for a particular group of people that the accused perceived the victim to belong to and/or (2) the intent to strike fear into members of that group, fits quite nicely into the traditional mens rea paradigm.

    As I understand all proposed, and enacted, hate crime legislation, it does not seek to penalize thoughts per se, nor does it turn solely on the identity of the victim. What it does is give legal weight to the societal determination that it is more blameworthy to commit certain pre-existing crimes with the mens rea of group hate, as defined above, than of merely personal animus towards the victim.

  68. Lurker

    Where, Oh where, did this “alleged victim” nonsense come from? New to IBTP here and I’d like to go off on a whole tangent on this, I’m betting there is a thread about it already, can anyone point the way?

    Hello,

    My name is “innocent until proven guilty”. Have we met?

  69. LMYC

    Lurker dear, that means that the word “alleged” applies to the perpetrator, the defendent, NOT the crime victim.

    Do you have a problem with logical thought?

    Always amazes me how frequently men claim logic as if it were the very fruit of their sad little loins, and then reject it when it suits them.

  70. LMYC

    The reason things like raising all the children and cooking all the food are not considered valuable is not that they are not valuable but that they are done by women.

    slythwolf, ABSOLUTELY. You can tell this is what’s going on when you hear them devalue women’s work when it’s identical to male. When a woman achieves something traditionally male (advances degrees, workplace accomplishment), it’s automatically devalued — automatically. Without them even thinking. Even the cure for cancer wouldn’t mean as much if a woman did it.

  71. Lurker

    LMYC– For there to be a victim, there must be a perpetrator. Therefore, if you call an accuser a victim, you are assuming the guilt of the accused. Not only is that contrary to American values, it also could potentially open up the paper to defamation charge.

  72. PhysioProf

    “Therefore, if you call an accuser a victim, you are assuming the guilt of the accused.”

    Couldn’t you simply be assuming that what the victim claims happened actually did happen, but without concluding as a legal matter that the accused was guilty of some particular crime?

  73. Virago

    Wow. Welcome to America, Lurker! We might do things a bit differently here. For example, it is common practice to refer to the perpetrator (or assailant or criminal) as “alleged” not the victim. But I’m only repeating what LMYC has already told you.

    In any case, since you don’t seem to be an advanced patriarchy blamer, it might behoove you to trot on over and take a bit of advice from Chris Clarke.

  74. Karen Kondej

    Judy Bindel, a freelance journalist who writes for the Guardian and other European newspapers and magazines, penned the germane phrase: “Alcohol is the New Short Skirt!”

  75. Errihu

    We do not consider the victim of a carjacking, mugging, theft or other non-rape crime to be “alleged”. Only rape victims. Others have said it already here, but perhaps it needs to be restated for Lurker.

  76. Karen Kondej

    Correction: In my previous comment I mistakenly typed Judy Bindel. The correct name is Julie Bindel. My apologies to this wonderful feminist writer.

  77. Bonnie

    “The thing I don’t like about the hate crime concept is it’s thought crime angle, it isn’t worse to rape/murder one person than another, I’m no libertarian, but you shouldn’t be a criminal for your thoughts, no matter how jackassy they are.”

    ——

    To amplify on what PyhsioProf wrote:

    The concepts of “intent” and “motive” are covered in the 1L law course on Criminal Law. They are defined under a concept called mens rea, otherwise known as “mental state” or “state of mind.”

    Mental states are sussed out on the basis of the defendant’s acts.

    There are many different layers to this concept. There are various ways the law determines a defendant’s mental state under both criminal law statutes and the common law. Under these frameworks, the law punishes the defendant based on these determinations.

    For example, one would face a lower level of punishment for a crime if one acts Negligently: a gross deviance from a reasonable standard of care; you should know / should be aware of a substantial risk to others. If the defendant’s acts indicate this, her/his mental state is therefore determined to be negligent.

    A defendant’s mental state is categorized as Reckless when the defendant’s acts indicate a conscious disregard of a risk of which the defendant is aware. Here, the defendant’s mental state would be both reckless and negligent.

    The next level of mental state is Knowingly, where the defendant is virually certain that her/his conduct will cause a certain result. For example, most competent adults know that stabbing someone with a knife will result in injury to the one stabbed. A prosecutor must prove more here than for a reckless or negligent state of mind.

    The final level, one which would result in the most punishment, is Purposely. The defendant’s intent here is her/his deliberate aim to do something; it is her/his conscious objective. To prove the defendant’s mental state re: conscious objective, a prosecutor would bring in evidence of, for example, recent purchase of a firearm or ammunition, “casing the joint” to figure out a victim’s patterns and habits, things like that.

    This is quite simplified (and please, you attorneys out there, go easy on me if I flubbed anything too badly), but you can begin to understand that a prosecutor can show/prove someone’s mental state / intent / motive.

    Someone mentioned above the different *degrees* for murder accusations. These *degrees* are based on actions similar to those above from which intent and motive are determined. The more involved the defendant’s level of planning, the greater her/his motive can be demonstrated.

    In the hate crimes context, motive and intent could be determined from, for example, what the hypothetical “Mike” later does to “Bruce.” Does Mike shove Bruce away from him and turn his back? Probably little to no “hate” shown in that action. However, if Mike hangs around in the parking lot for 5 or 6 hours waiting for Bruce to exit the bar, then beats Bruce to a bloody pulp with a tire iron, cracking his ribs, knocking out his teeth, and crushing him between his legs, I guarantee you even I could prove the motive of “hate” from those very purposefull actions. It is Mike’s conscious objective, his deliberate aim to beat up the tranny guy, and further to send a message to the rest of us.

  78. Elimy

    Bitch, Esquire wrote: “To touch on the central issue: madonna, or whore. If she’s morally bankrupt (i.e., drinking), she magically falls in the latter category, because she left herself open to being ‘used’ by her drinking[*], and therefore, a rape can’t have occurred, because she’s of the sex w/all comers class. Which is not all that different from the sex class in general.”

    Agreed. However, I have yet to see an instance where the victim is not put in the “dirty slut who’s asking for it” category. Except maybe the Bill Napoli model.

  79. Twisty

    Hey Miller. Paragraphs. Really.

  80. Twisty

    Hey DatesBubbas. No blame-the-victim. Really.

  81. Twisty

    Lurker. Your logic is impaired. Really.

  82. PhysioProf

    “This is quite simplified (and please, you attorneys out there, go easy on me if I flubbed anything too badly), but you can begin to understand that a prosecutor can show/prove someone’s mental state / intent / motive.”

    Based on my recollection of 1L criminal law and BarBri, you didn’t flub anything. And to amplify on your amplification, one class of action that can be used to establish mens rea is statements made by the accused.

  83. Bonnie

    [Drat. "PhysioProf." Apologies.]

    [More coffee, please.]

  84. Bonnie

    “statements made by the accused” – Yes, that rings a bell.

  85. Zonk

    Am I perma-moderated from now on?

  86. Miller

    I thought I did use paragraphs. I pushed enter to cause the break b/w paragraphs. Do you want me to push enter twice to create an additional line of space?

    Like this?

    I’ll try to cut my posts down to size as well. I know they’ve been too long, but it’s just so rare to be able to discuss such important (and disturbing) matters w/ others.

    On the subject of hate crimes laws: isn’t it more about condemning an act of terrorism (a crime that, in effect, targets a group) than mere thought?

  87. Zonk

    Curses, foiled by moderation again!

  88. Miller

    slythwolf,

    I didn’t mean to cause you distress. Perhaps I didn’t think of the best example (I’m well aware accomplishments are deemed worthy/unworthy based primarily, if not solely, on gender-based bigotry). “Equality” in just about every case when it’s used to fight injustice implicitly runs against the brick wall of: “But not everyone is equal.” While the public (theoretically) admires the idea of equality of opportunity, they loathe the idea of equality of result. I fear when feminists use “equality” people think of the latter and not the former. What I was attempting to do was conjure up associations on inherent human worth, since it directly attacks the dehumanization necessary to justify misogyny in the first place.

  89. roamaround

    This mentality is also behind the victim blaming that happens when “consensual” sex goes wrong. For example, the girl who agreed to have sex with one boy at the party but didn’t know his friends (or fellow gang members) planned to come in to “ride the train” and force oral and anal sex. She’ll get no sympathy since “she’s of the sex w/all comers class” for consenting to sex at all, or even being at the party.

    I hear this “but she was drinking” and/or “she knew what she was doing” stuff ALL the time from high school students, teachers, administrators and counselors. It’s horrifying.

  90. MedeaOnCrack

    Here’s the story of an “alleged” rape. This is the “But she was drinking and aboriginal, and those vaginal tears? Pah!” defense:

    Alleged sex assault victim weeps through testimony
    Darren Bernhardt, The StarPhoenix
    Published: Wednesday, March 21, 2007

    http://tinyurl. com/266mm2

    http://www.canada(dot)com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/third_page/story.html?id=292fae6b-
    4708-41a0-96f3-abc35f37a85a

  91. kanea

    on the subject of men thinking women never did anything, men really seem to think we did nothing but cook, clean, give birth till the 1960′s. which is rediculous because not matter what society you are in or when it is there are always people who will hold believes, and values opposit to their own culture. so even in the most ridged uber patriarchy there will always be a woman somewhere not doing the houseslave thing and doing something else.

    also I’ve noticed many men seem to have a major brain malfunction when you try to prove your point that we have contributed to society, even in the ways they concider valuable (i.e. art, music, building stuff, war ect ect). I had an argument at school with a male class mate because he thought I was lying when I told him a woman invented the novel. I even brought several books proving that what I told him was fact. he blew it off by saying something ‘it was in asian it don’t count’ (the first novel was writen by lady murasaki who was from japan). is it frighting to them that they didn’t do everything? is it that their partriarchal brainwashing is so deep that it causes their brain to freez and crash? does anyone know or have a theory?

  92. Dates Bubbas

    Thank you, Errihu, that’s exactly what I was trying to say.

    …it is a poor idea to drink to the point where one completely loses control of one’s self. To the point where one is completely unable of any effective fighting back or resistance…

    For the record, Ron Sullivan, I was about 14 when I learned to keep my eyes on my drink and not get so blotto that I couldn’t take care of myself.

  93. Flamethorn

    I have to wonder: how many hits to this post were generated by people googling for “free rape porn”?

  94. H

    It comes across loud and clear in this kind of reporting is that what is troublesome is not men’s tendency to rape or otherwise exploit the vulnerable, but rather women’s exercise of free will (to drink, to associate freely with whom they choose, to behave like a man i.e. a human being with agency) in any way, shape of form.

    Feminist Avatar – that Metro article – fucking hell. I could cry.

  95. Tigs

    Hate crimes certainly are about terrorism, not thought.

    Under all hate crime legislation you can still think whatever the hell you want. Hell, in the US you can even say whatever you want (although with habeas corpus out the window you might want to think twice, but that’s a different story).

    Hate crime legislation penalizes criminal behavior, that’s all. As an element of the crime, it is required that a jury finds beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime was hate-motivated (and hate-motivated against protected categories, in 20 states you can still gay-bash to your heart’s content and worry only about traditional statutory penalties). This is similar to a capital case in that the jury has separate findings to make. The jury must first assess whether the crime was committed by the alleged perpetrator (haha!), and then make a separate decision concerning the evidence of a hate crime.

    Honestly though, this hate crime bullsh*t pisses me off. Of the 1,390,695 violent crimes reported in the US on 2005, only 7,163 are considered to have been ‘hate crimes’ [cite-1]. With that massive number of crimes, free speech is surely a threatened commodity.

    Are you kidding me? Hate crimes legislation (which I fully support despite my cynicism) is barely a sop to lazy liberal (intentionally small-l) ideology that would rather make elite figures feel good about the land of the free and home of the brave instead of making the world safe for those who live in daily fear of walking at night, going out alone, or merely existing in public.

    Sh*t. Of the 93,934 “forcible rapes” reported in the US in 2005, only 25,528 arrests were made. Further, the FBI doesn’t keep data on how many of these arrests result in convictions. Individual state data suggests that only 20-35% of arrests result in convictions in sexual offenses [cite-2]. So, we can generically say that only about 1 in 10 women who actually report (and are believed) their rape see justice through the courts. How’s that for Hate?

    Men Hate You. A lot of Women Hate You too. All Society, Culture, History, and Superstructure Hate You.

    1- FBI’s UCR 2005, available online if you go to FBI(dot)gov and search ucr. The data are devastating on so many levels.
    2- Estrich, Susan. “Is It Rape?” Estrich is talking about sexual assaults, not ‘forcible rape’ but I judge that given the data I’ve seen this is a decent estimate.

    PS. I’m sorry if this is derailing and/or made no sense. I spend a lot of time with this data and I think it’s giving me an ulcer.

  96. thebewilderness

    Dates Bubbas,
    I think the argument you are making is faulty, and based on the assumption that others have had your same experiences.
    Many people are not experienced drinkers at twentythree. If you didn’t mix your own drink from a new bottle, and watch it every minute, you have no way of knowing for sure what is in it. By the time you think you may have had too much, you have probably had way too much.
    This woman thought she was safe, because she was with friends. When her husband came and found her incapacitated, he abandoned her, purportedly out of disgust for her being drunk.
    I say again, men are trained to be predatory sociopaths who will either abandon or take advantage of any helpless person.
    I’m sure her husband and her friends husband were both ‘nice guys’, who, if she were injured would have helped her. Once her husband determined her helplessness was her own fault he abandoned her, she then bacame fair game.
    IBTP

  97. lawbitch

    I whole heartedly agree that the ERA is the answer. Men greatly fear and resist it for this reason. It would give women the power that they need. Just like Twisty’s rape solution.

  98. Dates Bubbas

    thebewilderness,

    You’re implying I was an experienced drinker at the age of 14. I was not. I was with “friends” who thought it funny to put things in other people’s drinks “just to see what would happen.” They, too, would scatter like roaches when things went bad. They left people vulnerable because they were afraid of what would happen to them.

    There are plenty of people who never outgrow that urge to fuck with people and make fun of them afterward. I learned the hard way at a very young age to never give anyone else, male or female, an opportunity to make me the object of their titillation.

    Her husband being “upset” about her drunken state and leaving her there is beyond reason, but I’d be willing to bet it had nothing to do with being “a predatory sociopath.”

  99. H

    I hear this “but she was drinking” and/or “she knew what she was doing” stuff ALL the time from high school students, teachers, administrators and counselors.

    I’m currently hearing it from a rape victim on another blog. A rape victim who apparently blames herself ’30%’ for a man raping herby some twisted feat of mathematics (rape maths? who knew?) known only to herself and who is telling me that she has little sympathy for some women who get raped because they apparently ‘ask for it’. Tube tops and dark alleys have been invoked, too.

    Internalised misogyny. You have to love it, right?

  100. Lara

    Well I wrote Mister Jeff an e-mail:
    “Hi Jeff Lehr,
    I would like to know why you wrote a news story (Woman says man photographed, molested her) implying that a woman “asks” to get raped or molested simply because she was drinking and partying. She is a human being, not a sex toy. No one ever asks for that type of treatment. Do me, and a bunch of other people out there, a favor and stop humiliating this woman by implying that she “deserved” the treatment she got from her molester/abuser.
    It is no wonder that so many women do not report their sexual abuse and rape, there are writers like you perpetuating misogynist myths about rape and sexual abuse in the news media. As a victim of sexual abuse I was disgusted by the way you painted the situation to look like some sort of molestation fantasy for jerks. Why the instant suspicion of this woman? Had it been me reporting my abuse (which I never did to prevent this type of public humiliation at the hands of news writers who don’t know very much about rape or molestation…) you and a lot of other reporters out there would have written about me and my abuse the same way. Interesting how all or most women are seen as manipulative liars in the media. I suggest you consider either learning a bit more about the rape culture we live in before writing another “report” like this. Thanks.
    -Lara A.”

    If ya’ll wanna use this as a template for writing letters to Jeff Lehr please feel free to do so. What a damned prick…

  101. Lara

    Apparently DatesBubbas thinks that misogyny is some sort of myth. Some thing that doesn’t exist anymore. Cute. I guess it’s all women’s fault if men act like pricks and molest and rape them… I guess we stupid women “should have known better” than to freaking fucking exist in public. I guess we should have known better than to do the things men are already entitled to do (such as partying, drinking, or wearing whatever the fuck they want) without getting molested or raped.
    That is what you are saying in all your posts. I do not see how they can be interpreted in any other way.

  102. thebewilderness

    Dates Bubbas,
    I was implying, nay I came right out and said that some people at twentythree are not experienced drinkers.
    When I said that you seem to be judging her based on your life experience, I was talking about the fact that you seem to think that because you knew a thing at fourteen, she should know that thing at twentythree. The problem is we don’t all learn the same things the same ways at the same age. We just don’t.
    With regard to her husband, I think I called him a ‘nice guy’. I further stated that men are trained to be predatory sociopaths. One hopes, and occasionally notices, that the training doesn’t take on all of them.
    I have no idea why you want to pick these nits with me, but I’m game.

  103. thebewilderness

    Unless of course, you want to play the ‘women do it too’ game, in which case I’ll pass.

  104. Dates Bubbas

    Lara,

    No, I don’t think misogyny is a myth. I think it exists plenty, and BRAVO to you for actually DOING something to stop it instead of sitting here whining about it. Letters to the two attorneys and the judge in this case are also in order.

    This from the defense attorney: Mike Roberts, the defendant’s attorney, got the alleged victim to acknowledge on cross-examination that she went to El Charro with the Taylors and drank there of her own free will, and that she and Taylor’s wife asked him to go get more alcohol for them once they got back to the shop. *

    The Defense Attorney: Michael L. Roberts
    Firm: Gaither & Roberts, Attorneys at Law
    Date Admitted:
    740 South Illinois Avenue
    Joplin, MO 64801
    Email: mroberts88@hotmail.com
    Website: none
    Phone: 417-624-3166
    Fax: 417-624-4091

    The Judge: Hon. Richard Copeland
    Firm: State of Missouri, Circuit Court, 29th Circuit
    Address: Jasper County Courts Bldg.
    601 S. Pearl, Room 300
    Joplin, MO 64801-2589
    Phone: (417) 625-4316
    Fax: (417) 625-4340
    E-mail:
    Web site: http://www.courts.mo.gov/page.asp?id=1638

    The Assistant Prosecutor: Fisher, Kimberly Sue Lawry
    Bar Number: 58259
    Date Admitted: 4/19/2006
    Joplin, MO 64801 United States
    Current Standing: Good Standing

    Her boss should be Dean Dankelson, Prosecuting Attorney
    Courthouse
    302 S. Main St.
    P.O. Box 411
    Carthage, MO 64836
    (417) 358-0433
    Jasper Co. Courts Bldg.
    601 Pearl
    Joplin, MO 64801
    (417) 625-4314

  105. Regnina Phalangee

    And just think…. if a woman just drinks stuff that doesn’t get her drunk, the guy can put a drug in her drink – if she refuses to become unconscious or so out of it she is unable to defend herself – so – to summarise – she doesn’t drink, she’ll get raped, she does drink she’ll get raped – uuhhhhh…. so guys, whose the one at fault about the rape? It’s simple – just don’t rape women or girls. Men must have shit for brains – oops we already knew that and their brains are in their piss-stained y-fronts. Ugh

  106. Silence

    One point: women should be allowed to drink however much they fucking want? Got that? Or else what’s next — we’re not allowed to sleep because then we’ll be unconscious and men might creep into our rooms and molest us and we’ll be asking for it? (Yes, I know; this has already happened. Please don’t remind me just now.) We’re not allowed to get hit over the head because someone will rape us. Give me a break.

    Just got back from vacation, and damn did it drive home the point that women are for sale everywhere. Literally everywhere. Our bodies are used to sell drinks, cigarettes, various types of foods, restaurants — you name it, there’s some curvy blonde thing prancing around promoting it. The subconscious lure, of course, is that the dudely thing that purchases these goods is also tacitly purchasing the hawt young female body. But of course, since most of these dudely young things resemble squat, bulky, semi-albino, strategically shaven apes, the hawt young female bodies fail to materialize. And then the young dudely creature gets angry and instead of going after the people who sold him the crap in the first place, he vents his spleen on representatives of the hawt female bodies.

    At least that’s a theory that’s buzzing around my tired head right now. It seems virtually impossible to buy any commodity without buying the idea of a willing female body right along with it. Which equates to at least half the purchases one can make with prostitution. And as we all know, dudely sorts are allowed to do whatever they want to prostitutes, because they are Willing Sluts Who Deserve What They Get.

    All this seems to lead back to the idea that women=commodity. Bought, purchased, and used with the media’s and the patriarchy’s blessing.

    Shit, I’m too tired to work this any further right now. Feel free to take up the baton, you brighter lights.

  107. slownews

    So I’m in the grocery store, with my 4yo daughter, and we walk by a display for a certain nationally recognized, locally produced beer, containing a life size cutout of a fine young lady wearing next to nothing.

    “Mom, why is she wearing her swimsuit?” questions the 4yo, quite reasonably.

    What do I tell her? What do I tell her in 10 years?

    “Darling, your body is so desired and hated at the same time that men will use it to sell anything they want to.”

  108. Mar Iguana

    “All this seems to lead back to the idea that women=commodity. Bought, purchased, and used with the media’s and the patriarchy’s blessing.” Silence

    Precisely, and that’s the way the boys want to keep it thank you very much. Otherwise, they might have to learn how to think and feel to get even remotely close to a woman.

  109. orange

    Darling, your body is so desired and hated at the same time…

    Oh. Oh. I almost started crying when I read this. It’s so true. I can’t believe how much hate there is in this world for women, just because we were born into our bodies.

    My dad, interestingly, has made a twenty-year transition from Libertarian to radical feminist-friend. And it’s because of stuff like you’re experiencing as a parent, seeing his daughter grow up in a world that expects her to submit and be ritualistically stomped upon. His path gives me hope, when other things fail.

  110. SelinaK

    In her book The Sociopath Next Door, Martha Stout makes the point that although 4 percent of the population could actually be classified as sociopathic, you *can* get any otherwise normal person to behave like one by designating a certain group of people as “excluded from our moral universe.” You know, people like Jeffery Dahmer, Osama Bin Laden, women who drink to much, wear ‘inappropriate clothing’, have had consentual sex in the past, or walk around in public as if they’re as free as men.

    “The interventions of conscience no longer apply to him [her]. He [she] is not human. He [she] is an *it*.” (page 57, The Sociopath Next Door).

    So what makes a man an ‘it’ deserving of violence is being a mass murderer. For women it’s being in possession of female parts and being out in public.

  111. SelinaK

    (Consensual, sorry.)

  1. Feminist Law Professors » Blog Archive » Second Carnival of Radical Feminists

    [...] I mightily applaud everyone who is drawing attention to the DeAnza rape allegations situation and pressing for a criminal investigation. See, for example, Marcella’s topical post at Abyss2hope, and Twisty’s post at I Blame The Patriarchy. Radical feminist blogs are doing a terrific job of discussing the case without blaming the victim, which is sometimes harder than one might think, or so it sometimes seems. [...]

  2. Second Carnival of Radical Feminists « Carnival of Radical Feminists

    [...] are doing a terrific job of discussing the case without blaming the victim, which is sometimes harder than one might think, or so it often [...]

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