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	<title>Comments on: The De Anza case: men really hate drunk teenage girls</title>
	<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 19:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: RonF</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-93549</link>
		<author>RonF</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 05:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-93549</guid>
		<description>Excerpts from the D.A.'s comments:

&lt;i&gt;... the victim told investigators that she did not remember anything that happened from shortly after the time she arrived at the party. The victim would be unable to counter claims that she had consented.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;The result would be such a confusing and conflicting account of what happened that we would be unable to convince 12 jurors to convict. For example, the media reported that the victim vomited. But lab tests showed that the vomit did not come from her. The defense would challenge any account which depended upon the vomit to prove that the victim was too intoxicated to consent.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;And what of the three soccer players who witnessed men huddled around a man having sex with a teenage girl?  ... But they only saw the last 30 to 60 seconds of a two hour party. The totality of the evidence of what happened that night would make it impossible for us to prove sexual assault charges beyond a reasonable doubt against anyone.&lt;/i&gt;

What happened and what can be proven beyone a reasonable doubt in court are often two different things.  It seems to make sense to believe that these guys are rapists.  After all, how likely is it that this young woman actually gave informed consent to all this?  But in the face of these comments can the assertion that she did not give informed consent be proven to the extent demanded in a criminal case?  And if it can't be proven in court, on what basis should the D.A. bring charges?  How much of this is "she doesn't want to bring charges" and how much of this is "there actually is no legally provable case here"?

Let's say for the sake of further discussion that due to the factors listed by the D.A. it is in fact correct that under current law, rules of evidence, etc., she made the correct legal decision and that the allegations of rape made in this case cannot be proven.  How would you propose to change the law so that in such a case it would be practical to bring charges?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excerpts from the D.A.&#8217;s comments:</p>
<p><i>&#8230; the victim told investigators that she did not remember anything that happened from shortly after the time she arrived at the party. The victim would be unable to counter claims that she had consented.</i></p>
<p><i>The result would be such a confusing and conflicting account of what happened that we would be unable to convince 12 jurors to convict. For example, the media reported that the victim vomited. But lab tests showed that the vomit did not come from her. The defense would challenge any account which depended upon the vomit to prove that the victim was too intoxicated to consent.</i></p>
<p><i>And what of the three soccer players who witnessed men huddled around a man having sex with a teenage girl?  &#8230; But they only saw the last 30 to 60 seconds of a two hour party. The totality of the evidence of what happened that night would make it impossible for us to prove sexual assault charges beyond a reasonable doubt against anyone.</i></p>
<p>What happened and what can be proven beyone a reasonable doubt in court are often two different things.  It seems to make sense to believe that these guys are rapists.  After all, how likely is it that this young woman actually gave informed consent to all this?  But in the face of these comments can the assertion that she did not give informed consent be proven to the extent demanded in a criminal case?  And if it can&#8217;t be proven in court, on what basis should the D.A. bring charges?  How much of this is &#8220;she doesn&#8217;t want to bring charges&#8221; and how much of this is &#8220;there actually is no legally provable case here&#8221;?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say for the sake of further discussion that due to the factors listed by the D.A. it is in fact correct that under current law, rules of evidence, etc., she made the correct legal decision and that the allegations of rape made in this case cannot be proven.  How would you propose to change the law so that in such a case it would be practical to bring charges?</p>
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		<title>By: justicewalks</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-88043</link>
		<author>justicewalks</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-88043</guid>
		<description>So, r@d@r, why have you come here to share your insight with women who already know that men ought to be ashamed of themselves and that misogyny comes from men and boys (and have, in fact said this very thing in this thread), instead of taking it to some MRA site where you and some of the other men who ought to be ashamed of yourselves can get started on stopping what men do?

In other words, do, r@d@r, don't talk.

Oh, and, the responsibility for rape belongs to the rapist alone, not his absent daddy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, <a href="mailto:r@d@r">r@d@r</a>, why have you come here to share your insight with women who already know that men ought to be ashamed of themselves and that misogyny comes from men and boys (and have, in fact said this very thing in this thread), instead of taking it to some MRA site where you and some of the other men who ought to be ashamed of yourselves can get started on stopping what men do?</p>
<p>In other words, do, <a href="mailto:r@d@r">r@d@r</a>, don&#8217;t talk.</p>
<p>Oh, and, the responsibility for rape belongs to the rapist alone, not his absent daddy.</p>
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		<title>By: r@d@r</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-88035</link>
		<author>r@d@r</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-88035</guid>
		<description>i share the rage and disgust generally expressed here.  as a man raised by a feminist mom and taught to see women as equals, and my own alliance with them to be a work in progress that's never finished, i too have concern for our children and how they learn the roles of victim and victimizer.  i have seen these dramas initiated at shockingly young ages, and as some here have stated, there seems to be a correlation with how parents relate to their children in terms of power, control, will, and self-definition.  i can respect those who call for separatism - what reason do they have to trust men at this juncture?  however, while i see that as a means to an end, i don't know if it serves as an end in itself, or a solution.

boys learn how to behave towards women two ways: by watching their fathers, and by watching other boys.  secondly, their motivation regarding their own emotional relationship to women is shaped by their process of attachment to their mother.  part of the damage that patriarchy does to boys is that fathers abdicate their responsibility to provide emotional connection, and so boys come to feel that mother and through her all women are the repository of their emotional well-being.  when this is coupled with indoctrination by the patriarchy toward treating women as things, the combination is lethal.

the responsibility and blame for every rape by a man goes back in an unending line through every emotionally absent father.  maybe at some point men developed these behaviors because of some drama of social evolution i couldn't begin to understand.  what is more important is that every time that stories like these gang rape cases emerge, all of us men need to feel shame, guilt, responsibility, outrage, whatever it takes to spur us to ACTION to stop it.  because only men can stop what men do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i share the rage and disgust generally expressed here.  as a man raised by a feminist mom and taught to see women as equals, and my own alliance with them to be a work in progress that&#8217;s never finished, i too have concern for our children and how they learn the roles of victim and victimizer.  i have seen these dramas initiated at shockingly young ages, and as some here have stated, there seems to be a correlation with how parents relate to their children in terms of power, control, will, and self-definition.  i can respect those who call for separatism - what reason do they have to trust men at this juncture?  however, while i see that as a means to an end, i don&#8217;t know if it serves as an end in itself, or a solution.</p>
<p>boys learn how to behave towards women two ways: by watching their fathers, and by watching other boys.  secondly, their motivation regarding their own emotional relationship to women is shaped by their process of attachment to their mother.  part of the damage that patriarchy does to boys is that fathers abdicate their responsibility to provide emotional connection, and so boys come to feel that mother and through her all women are the repository of their emotional well-being.  when this is coupled with indoctrination by the patriarchy toward treating women as things, the combination is lethal.</p>
<p>the responsibility and blame for every rape by a man goes back in an unending line through every emotionally absent father.  maybe at some point men developed these behaviors because of some drama of social evolution i couldn&#8217;t begin to understand.  what is more important is that every time that stories like these gang rape cases emerge, all of us men need to feel shame, guilt, responsibility, outrage, whatever it takes to spur us to ACTION to stop it.  because only men can stop what men do.</p>
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		<title>By: Reclusive Leftist &#187; Blog Archive &#187; It&#8217;s not about legalizing rape so much as declaring it a metaphysical impossibility</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-84121</link>
		<author>Reclusive Leftist &#187; Blog Archive &#187; It&#8217;s not about legalizing rape so much as declaring it a metaphysical impossibility</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 09:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-84121</guid>
		<description>[...] And in the De Anza case, a teenage girl who was gang-raped by a sports team has been publicly castigated for, again, reporting a crime that the state decided it couldn&#8217;t prove. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] And in the De Anza case, a teenage girl who was gang-raped by a sports team has been publicly castigated for, again, reporting a crime that the state decided it couldn&#8217;t prove. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Reclusive Leftist &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Progress continues on the march to legalize rape</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-80585</link>
		<author>Reclusive Leftist &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Progress continues on the march to legalize rape</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-80585</guid>
		<description>[...] Any questions about why every single athletic team in this country now has carte blanche to rape and torture any woman they get their nasty goddamn hands on? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Any questions about why every single athletic team in this country now has carte blanche to rape and torture any woman they get their nasty goddamn hands on? [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: SAAM</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-75213</link>
		<author>SAAM</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 03:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-75213</guid>
		<description>Jesus H Christ.
I am glad I don't have a son.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus H Christ.<br />
I am glad I don&#8217;t have a son.</p>
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		<title>By: SuperW</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-71342</link>
		<author>SuperW</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 19:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-71342</guid>
		<description>Well let me just say i'm English so i didn't know anything about this case but reading over what you wote is just plain sickening. Not enough evidence my arse. my heart goes out to the REAL victime in this case a young girl. i respect her so much for actually reporting this rape as many do not due to cases like this when they are not taken seriously. 
I truly believe that the American Law system is screwed up and needs to get sorted. but hey so is the English Law system. many footballers (soccer players) have been accused of rape( among many other offences eg violence to drink driving) yet nothing it truly done about it they are always found non guilty for not enough evidence or in  violence cases given a small fine which wont even make a dent in their bank ballence. 
We live in a fucked up world where the entertainment of sporst players is valued more than someones wellbeing. In england people normally get more time in prison for robbing a bank then acctually taking a life/  raping someone. it truly makes me sick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well let me just say i&#8217;m English so i didn&#8217;t know anything about this case but reading over what you wote is just plain sickening. Not enough evidence my arse. my heart goes out to the REAL victime in this case a young girl. i respect her so much for actually reporting this rape as many do not due to cases like this when they are not taken seriously.<br />
I truly believe that the American Law system is screwed up and needs to get sorted. but hey so is the English Law system. many footballers (soccer players) have been accused of rape( among many other offences eg violence to drink driving) yet nothing it truly done about it they are always found non guilty for not enough evidence or in  violence cases given a small fine which wont even make a dent in their bank ballence.<br />
We live in a fucked up world where the entertainment of sporst players is valued more than someones wellbeing. In england people normally get more time in prison for robbing a bank then acctually taking a life/  raping someone. it truly makes me sick.</p>
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		<title>By: mAndrea</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-70419</link>
		<author>mAndrea</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 16:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-70419</guid>
		<description>So.  IF rape does happen, and we know it does given the male propensity to dominate and generally behave like assholes, THEN &lt;i&gt;how come no male has ever admitted in court to the crime?&lt;/i&gt;

ALL RAPISTS LIE ABOUT RAPE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So.  IF rape does happen, and we know it does given the male propensity to dominate and generally behave like assholes, THEN <i>how come no male has ever admitted in court to the crime?</i></p>
<p>ALL RAPISTS LIE ABOUT RAPE.</p>
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		<title>By: Vera Venom</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-70403</link>
		<author>Vera Venom</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-70403</guid>
		<description>WE were never the lynch mob.  Misogynistic racist rape-apologists - like yourself, I'll wager - are the lynch mobs. 

So, feel free to shove it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WE were never the lynch mob.  Misogynistic racist rape-apologists - like yourself, I&#8217;ll wager - are the lynch mobs. </p>
<p>So, feel free to shove it.</p>
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		<title>By: Joey Ty</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-70380</link>
		<author>Joey Ty</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/24/de-anza-case/#comment-70380</guid>
		<description>Be careful, girls. Don't become a lynch mob like you did with the Duke case. You saw where that left you. I'll admit the De Anza players and Rev. James Bevel probably ARE guilty, but....be careful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be careful, girls. Don&#8217;t become a lynch mob like you did with the Duke case. You saw where that left you. I&#8217;ll admit the De Anza players and Rev. James Bevel probably ARE guilty, but&#8230;.be careful.</p>
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