Comments on: Patriarchy encapsulate de la semaine

By: maribelle

maribelle — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 20:10:12 +0000

Imagining a world in which menâ€™s bad behavior resulted in measures to contain/control them rather than contain/control us.

Right the fuck on. I am having this tattooed on my ass.

RE: “straight married mothers” and common ground on the Internet

1. I would avoid making assumptions about people’s personal lives, especially private matters like sexual orientation.
2. I have many things in common with Twisty. Why must your 3 identifiers-(all relating to women’s relations to men) be the primary signals of Internet compatibility?
3. This is the reasoning patriarchy uses to keep women apart–by questioning whether diverse groups can combine to learn from and/or join in common cause.

By: Twisty

Twisty — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 20:09:14 +0000

I’m invoking a rule I just made up, which is that once a post racks up a hundred or more comments, it gets pitched over to the forum. Blamers who wish to continue this discussion can do so here. Thanks.

By: hipparchia

hipparchia — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 18:01:41 +0000

Imagining a world in which menâ€™s bad behavior resulted in measures to contain/control them rather than contain/control us.

yep, that was my favorite line out of this whole discussion too.

By: rachel

rachel — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:55:37 +0000

“It must be terribly hard to say what you need to say when you are required to temper it in order to avoid a ridiculous flame war over shit you donâ€™t really care about, i.e. marriage and children.”

Also, should I take this to mean that when you are talking about shit you don’t care about, you should be able to be as reckless with language and generally anitfeminist as you want?

By: Patti

Patti — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:50:25 +0000

Excuse me, older than most mothers with kids the same age as my kid.

By: Patti

Patti — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:49:33 +0000

People are WAY more complicated than just fitting into their “chosen lifestyle”. I’m a not married, but straight, but also celibate, single-mother. I’m older than most mothers with kids my age. I have ginormous tattoos. My best friend is a straight woman who shaves her hair off and works on cars. This is one of the few places on the Internet that I’ve been pretty comfortable. Twisty says she cares about children - why should I not be comfortable here? I feel more in common with her than with most of the parents at my son’s school, or some of the other feminist-ish blogs.

By: rachel

rachel — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:46:10 +0000

“Do you think that womenâ€™s only beaches are ethically â€œwrongâ€ in the sense that men only golf courses are? ”

The two are not, to use your language, “ethically equivalent”; they do not, in my words, signify or impact the same ways within a patriarchal society. What I think is that to claim a women’s only beach which also mandates the exclusion of children, to claim that beach is feminist or performing a feminist function, is to make a false claim.

“itâ€™s interesting that theyâ€™d [straight, married mothers] choose a haven with a moderator so far removed from their chosen lifestyle. It must be terribly hard to say what you need to say when you are required to temper it in order to avoid a ridiculous flame war over shit you donâ€™t really care about, i.e. marriage and children. IBTP.”

I guess I should think more about the extent to which I am an Other here. Nobody is requiring anyone to comment on things they don’t care about.

By: Niki

Niki — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:35:03 +0000

What’s with the ‘holier than thou’ thing that happens all the time at IBTP these days, where the defensive come up with ludicrous idealisms like “I never have bad thoughts about any subgroups” and/or “One must tolerate everything about womanhood to be a feminist”? It reminds me of the whole “I don’t fantasize about other people without their written consent” arguement of yore. What a bunch of saints you are!

I also find it interesting that so many straight married mothers come to Twisty’s blog. It’s not interesting that they’re looking for a place to vent (heck, it’s expected), it’s interesting that they’d choose a haven with a moderator so far removed from their chosen lifestyle. It must be terribly hard to say what you need to say when you are required to temper it in order to avoid a ridiculous flame war over shit you don’t really care about, i.e. marriage and children. IBTP.

By: Kali

Kali — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:17:51 +0000

“And while I donâ€™t think that the above list of exlucsionary tactics signify in equivalent ways, I do think they are structurally equivalent”

The relevant question here is - are they *ethically* equivalent? Do you think that women’s only beaches are ethically “wrong” in the sense that men only golf courses are? It is only on that *ethical* basis that we can object, regardless of whether they bear some structural resemblance or not.

By: Lya Kahlo

Lya Kahlo — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:16:49 +0000

“Imagining a world in which menâ€™s bad behavior resulted in measures to contain/control them rather than contain/control us. ”

Otter knocked it out of the park - to use a patriarchical sports metaphor.