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Aug 19 2007

High praise from the blogosphere

“The more I think and read, the more Twisty Faster makes sense, which bothers me, somehow.” — this dude Bruce

26 comments

  1. Rainbow Girl

    Either he’s had a real feminist epiphany or he’s eyeing the cookie jar. I’ll take either as a step above what I usually see.

  2. thebewilderness

    When myth and reality collide it bothers them to discover that they are not now, nor ever were, members of the reality based community. A red pill/blue pill moment for crablaw. Fancy that.

  3. Lara

    I made a comment over there, asking him: “What is more disturbing? The fact that women are treated as sub-humans or that fact that Twisty Faster simply reported it? Take your pick.”
    There you have it.
    I was just told the other day that I was a “cunt ass fucker” for not finding rape jokes funny, so considering the climate women are placed in I am wondering why Bruce finds this report astonishing….

  4. JeffL

    And now, I presume, Dude Bruce will spend the next year or so reading Twisty just like I did:

    Start to read the post: “What is Twisty going on about now?!”
    Mid-way through the post: “On C’MON! That’s so totally not true!”
    Finish the post: “Fuck. FuckFuckFuckFuckFuckFuck! FFFFFFFFUUUUCK!!!!”

    As thebewilderness said, that’s the sound of myth & reality colliding. Not much fun for us Dudes, but a journey worth taking.

  5. W

    I guess it surprises a lot of people how absolutely correct the “beliefs” (read: knowledge) of radical feminists are. Sometimes I think it’s society’s last hope that some people still have the capacity to learn, to at least try and understand what we’re saying.

  6. Shira

    It bothers Bruce? Somehow?! Gah, male privilege sure must be nice.

    I was up until 4 am last night arguing with one of my sort-of Nigels via aim. The point of contention was his assertion that his analytical framework – “supply and demand” – was just as good as my radical feminist lens, and furthermore that my insistence on always bringing up gender is blinding me to The Bigger Picture. His example was prison rape – men have this biological urge for sex, which creates demand, which is filled by men since there are no women. I pointed out that this defines women as the rape-able class, that his framework does not explain why men demand a class of rape-able people in the first place, and that rape, by definition, ignores the demand of the raped not to be raped.

    And you know what he said?

    i am ignoring women for the purpose of this discussion since i’m talking about supply and demand“!

    Sure, his lens necessarily ignores more than half the human race, but it’s just as good as mine, right? I mean, they’re just women! (To his credit, he realized that you can’t just write off women once I pointed this out, and promptly changed the subject to the usual “Ok, then present a concise explanation of what a post-patriarchy utopia would look like”).

  7. Bruce/Crablaw

    I thank Lara and Twisty both. I made a comment responding to Lara over at my blog. The gist of it is that I experience cognitive dissonance between the decidedly non-radical positions that I take in most of my life, and the increasing radical conclusions that I find myself compelled to draw on the topic of sexism.

    I found the report from the British police authorities offensive (meaning the facts, not their presumably accurate reporting) but not at all astonishing.

  8. TP

    Supply and demand. Objects that exist to satiate greed, he means.

    A post-patriarchal society would reduce sex to a natural role, rather than a hyper-exaggerated central position. Being male or female would no longer be central to Twisty or myself as identities; it would be a biological fact of little importance much like left handedness or eye color.

    Any mention of abandoning our extremely artificial construct of sex-first, sex last and sex-always cultural hysteria will usually make dudes, especially pornsick dudes, almost physically ill. The idea of life without a constant hard on to these pathetic losers is equal to complete castration, which only illustrates perfectly how unbalanced they are in their ideas about the importance of sex.

  9. Jeni

    Twisty, didn’t you write a post a wee while back saying that in a post-patriarchal society, sex (and gender) would be abolished entirely? I think I agree more and more with that.

  10. Tuba Terry

    I was discussing the “manliest possible fight scene” with a friend of mine at work a few days ago. I got to the point of describing a lumberjack fighting a zombie grizzly bear while wielding a chainsaw and a beer. He responded with “Don’t forget, he’s got to be a misogynist too.” I think there’s at least a little hope when even a Marine can tell there’s a problem. It’s a start at least.

  11. Redplanet

    Sense is always bothering; as a non USA dude (European)I have read this blog for while with a continual sense of dread, humour and disbelief.

    My wife has a far higher IQ than me, far more qualified and is radical to the point of being totalitarian, albeit I would not have it any other way (not that I could I suppose), and she is constantly raging against society but feels/knows that she is losing the battle; other women shun her and men are terrified of her.

    Her requirements for being whole will never be realised in this lifetime: it is the lack of respect and understanding from other women that torment her.

  12. ironmaiden

    I think there’s hope for Bruce. I read his response to some of the comments and he seems to be mostly taken aback by his ability to believe in something categorized as “radical” (something that most people why away from in truth).

    I can understand that – we’re all taught from very early on that we should never be “extreme” in anything – it has a truly negative connotation. I think he’s just trying to reconcile that ingrained belief with newfound awareness, and that’s not easy for anyone.

    But f* the poster who put up the strawman of “male rape is more underreported than female rape in the US” — that may well be true, but the incidence of male rape is much MUCH lower than the incidence of female rape — perhaps a larger percentage of female rapes are reported to police, but that does not mean that male rape is a bigger problem.

  13. chingona

    In fairness to Bruce, I’m sometimes bothered to realize that Twisty is right. Not because I want Twisty to be wrong, but because the truth she describes is a painful one to confront. A lot of people want to believe that the world is basically okay with a lot of fucked up people in it doing fucked up things, but if we could just get to those people and stop them or open their eyes or whatever, it would be okay. But that may not be the case. The evidence presented here is that it is much more systemic than that. And that’s a more frightening reality.

  14. Medbh

    Behold the power of Twisty!

  15. Kali

    Shira, dump the Nigel.

  16. norbizness

    Whatever happened to Mr. T?

  17. yankee transplant

    Light dawns on Bruce, perhaps? Sometimes, that’s uncomfortable.

    And Shira, “. I pointed out that this defines women as the rape-able class, that his framework does not explain why men demand a class of rape-able people in the first place, and that rape, by definition, ignores the demand of the raped not to be raped. ” Excellent.

  18. Theriomorph

    Sucks, doesn’t it, Bruce.

  19. sun rat

    Every time I see that a man somewhere is “getting it”, I actually feel the tiniest glimmer of hope.

  20. PhysioProf

    “The gist of it is that I experience cognitive dissonance between the decidedly non-radical positions that I take in most of my life, and the increasing radical conclusions that I find myself compelled to draw on the topic of sexism.”

    Here are some practical suggestions for reducing this congnitive dissonance:

    (1) Give up all use of pornography.

    (2) Treat all women you encounter like human beings with full independent agency.

    (3) Do everything in your power to in your workplace to ensure that women have a genuinely equal opportunity for success and advancement.

    (4) Call out misogyny when you see it.

    (5) Make it clear to the women in your life that it is not important to you for them to adopt the trappings of femininity.

  21. legallyblondeez

    Corollary to PhysioProf’s (5):

    (6) Adopt desirable or enjoyable traits and habits traditionally seen as feminine.

  22. slythwolf

    What the fuck, Shira? Is he not at all familiar with the fact that rape in prison (as elsewhere) is entirely about who is powerful and who is not?

  23. Isabel

    Hey, I had the same exact reaction and I’m a woman. I actually couldn’t bring myself to read IBTP at first, because it struck me as too “angry.” Shameful, I know. Now it strikes me as just angry enough, or, in other words, as angry as I am. But it is kind of a depressing realization.

  24. maribelle

    I was discussing the “manliest possible fight scene” with a friend of mine at work a few days ago.

    Holy crap–this is what you do at WORK? How the hell did you men ever get to run the world, anyhow?

    He responded with “Don’t forget, he’s got to be a misogynist too.” I think there’s at least a little hope when even a Marine can tell there’s a problem.

    No, your Marine buddy was not conceding any kind of “problem” at all–just equating ultimate manliness with women-hating. Just another Monday morning in the patriarchy.

    It’s a start at least.

    No, Tuba Terry, equating misogyny with ultra-manliness is the start of nothing; it’s part of a long continuum of history, marching directly over the bodies of women and girls. Same old fucking same old, and you’re calling it progress.

    This even beats that thread in the forum where women are slapping each other on the back for ushering in the feminist revolution by wearing “low-heels” and not shaving their legs (although at least one admitted it was because she was home in pajamas and unemployed). This is what we are celebrating as progress?

    Meanwhile, I’ll contribute to feminism today by scowling at Cal Thomas’s webpage and not killing any kittens. Yeah me.

  25. Twisty

    “(6) Adopt desirable or enjoyable traits and habits traditionally seen as feminine.”

    Like makeup and tiny handbags!

  26. Alan

    I know this entry is almost a month old but it’s the most pertinent to why i just want to comment, and it’s also really long so no one has to accidentally suffer through another dude’s tale of “ohmigod”:

    My closest friend has been wild about this blog for a long while, and very recently, after going through archives and reading other linked blogs, I’ve found why, despite agreeing emphatically with Twisty and looking forward to her brilliant style of writing, that something bugged me about it, and chingona summed it up perfectly:

    “A lot of people want to believe that the world is basically okay with a lot of fucked up people in it doing fucked up things, but if we could just get to those people and stop them or open their eyes or whatever, it would be okay. But that may not be the case. The evidence presented here is that it is much more systemic than that. And that’s a more frightening reality.”

    It’s how i believed there could be balance, that yes everything else is fucked up and women are asked/forced to submit to contradictory and humiliating ideas set forth by men who want to possess and consume the traits they impose, and practically EVERYTHING is gross or crazy in some measure but if *I* were decent enough to resist arbitrary power plays, then that was the most i could do. Because most people don’t, most people enthusiastically embrace this insane set of systems and are completely perverted, so just take the step to not let it happen to myself.

    But it’s not enough, obviously, and the more I read the less satisfied i get with this self-centered focus. I’m no longer an exception. there’s a million excuses made for me if i decide to look or act a certain way, and most of them are favorable. I have never, in a social setting, felt the need to affect anything as submissive as that special, ugly little giggle because i didnt want to be looked down on. i was feeling pretty complacent, and this is now no longer justifiable. So *I’m* the one that sounds crazy when my girlfriend and i were washing the car yesterday.

    *long silence*
    “soooooo…. what are you thinking about?”
    “radical feminism.”
    “… why?”
    “i dunno, it’s a completely different thing for me. here’s a set of ideas that make complete sense, but because of who i fundamentally am and how i benefit from being me, i run contrary to those beliefs”
    “but Alan, everyone finds a target to blame for anything”
    “okay, but this isn’t ‘i can’t go into the woods because there’s men with a pack of miller lite’, it’s a sustained observation about how oppression permeates *everything*”
    “uh huh”

    after that i just changed subject because i felt silly talking to a woman about what it is to be a woman, because i thing she just *might* know better than me, but i love this blog. and even though it’s distressing and “abrasive”, it doesn’t make it any less true. i don’t think I’m going to comment here again, because it’s a unique space that really doesn’t *need* my input, but who knows, and at any rate you’ve definitely got another reader.

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