«

»

Mar 19 2008

Name That Misogynist! Queensland Edition

And now for Name That Misogynist!, I Blame the Patriarchy’s new assholes-in-the-news quiz. It’s easy to play. I rip a story from the headlines, and you Name That Misogynist! Let’s begin!

[Mr X] yesterday admitted he was told of the alleged rape of a nurse on Mabuiag Island in the Torres Strait two days after it occurred but did not take immediate action.

[Mr X] admitted he did not react until details of the attack were revealed in The Australian nearly a month later.

The 27-year-old nurse was attacked in her bed in quarters attached to the island’s medical centre at 3am on February 5.

When she telephoned her director of nursing on Thursday Island at 7.30am that day, she was told to “put it behind her and just get back to work”.

The nurse was also told she would not be flown off the island and had to arrange her own transport by open dinghy to Badu Island to be medically examined and receive treatment.

Her boyfriend then had to pay $800 to charter a plane to fly her to Thursday Island so she could return to Sydney. [Note: they also thought it would be a good idea to dock her pay for going AWOL]

At a press conference yesterday, [Mr X] said he was told about the alleged rape on February 7, while he was attending a Labor caucus meeting.

But he took no action until the story appeared in The Australian on March 4. [Source: The Australian at news.com.au]

Are you ready to Name That Misogynist? Go!

If you said “the director of nursing at Thursday Island,” you’re absolutely right! If you said “Queensland Health Minister and State Member for Stretton Stephen Robertson”, you’re absolutely right! If you said “the motherfucker who raped the nurse,” you’re absolutely right! If you had no idea how much men hate you, now you do!

Congratulations!

53 comments

  1. feministgal

    awesomely done :) you totally crack me up!

  2. B. Dagger Lee

    I’d ask if you are on fire what with all these great posts of late, but that’s a cliché, and to be avoided.

    Are you on speed?

  3. Twisty

    “I’d ask if you are on fire [...]”

    Dear god, that’s what that smell is! I better stop, drop, and roll!

  4. Dr. Steph

    Fucker. Nice to know the Australian government doesn’t care at all about women’s health.

  5. Debby

    How about the guy who masturbated over top of a sleeping woman on a plane? Or the American Airlines flight attendants who didn’t do anything about it? Or the people sitting all around her on the airplane?

    I name them all the Misogynists!

    Via Pandagon!

    http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2008/03/16/woman-sues-over-perv-passenger-next-to-her-on-flight/

  6. Ryna

    They also have legal brothels to brag about.

  7. Alexis

    And graffiti like this: “She can’t say no with a cock in her mouth” (in the bar, at St Paul’s Residential College, University of Sydney).

  8. lawbitch

    Whatever it is, don’t stop, Twisty! You’re an inspiration!

  9. blue milk

    Oh crap – we finally get Twisty’s attention and it is for our extraordinary misogyny. Australia, I feel so proud of you.

  10. atheist woman

    Wow are you going to start your own reality game show now? This week on ‘Survivor Island, Patriarchy Edition’ we are featuring ‘Name that Misogynist’, with your host Twisty Faster!

  11. rootlesscosmo

    This week on ‘Survivor Island, Patriarchy Edition’ we are featuring ‘Name that Misogynist’, with your host Twisty Faster!

    Suggested prizes, anyone? I’m thinking a 1973 Ford Pinto (that was the one with the exploding gas tank) with a full set of Firestone 500s (they used to disintegrate after a few thousand miles) but what with the passage of the years, those might be hard to find.

  12. Shelby

    Hey Twisty how about this for good old aussie misogyny:-

    “The Crown prosecutor who handled the Aurukun gang-rape case described the attack as “naughty”, court documents have revealed.

    Nine males who gang-raped a 10-year-old girl in the Cape York Indigenous community escaped without serving jail time in a case which has caused international controversy.

    Crown prosecutor Steve Carter did not seek jail terms for the offenders, and in his sentencing submission to the judge he said the 10-year-old victim knew what was going on.”

    Sweet!

  13. Martha Maus

    Never let it be said that there isn’t equality of blaming: here we are competing with the Governer of New York, no less, but still Twisty finds some blame to spare for Australia. As a long time lurker from across the Pacific, let me say; thanks for blaming.

  14. AngryYoungFemme

    Ow.

    Ow.

    Ow.

    I don’t know how much more misogyny I can take. It seems to be piling on top of me at the moment:

    - a neighbor asks me to help her leave her husband and I agree, only to discover her husband screaming at her and grabbing at her and me as I tell her we are getting the hell out of there, don’t pack anything.

    - hearing, through my bedroom wall, my new flatmate’s boyfriend bang the sofa couch into the floor with the force of his raping her as he emphasizes each thrust with slut-shaming obscenities and she squeals and quietly screams, “stop, Kyle, you’re hurting me, Kyle! Stop! OW!” The next day I hear a loud bang from the kitchen–it was him, banging his fist on the counter so as not to HIT HER, after he tells her “I’m so angry at you, I could, I could HIT YOU!”

    - my study-abroad best-friend-I’ve-ever-met was raped and forced to live in the same town as her rapist after he spent only 3 months in prison for beating her to the point of serious knee injuries and leaving her to do die, face beaten, ribs kicked in, strangled (he thought she was dead when he left her) in the forest in Malmo, Sweden. If she hadn’t crawled 1/5 miles to the nearest house, she would have died and I would never have met her.

    - a new friend calling tonight and putting her boyfriend on speaker phone after saying “this is what it’s like, this is what I deal with” as we hear her asshole prick boyfriend shouting, “yeah, that’s right, bitch, record me, get all your friends on the phone, I don’t care. You’re just a stupid bitch who can’t do anything right, you fucking whore. That’s right, cry now cuz you’re afraid of crying later tonight, like you cry every night, you fucking slut bitch. You stupid bitch, all my friends and I laugh at you and your stupid whore-ass. Bitch.” Then she had to go.

    - my boyfriend is from South Africa and lives in Port Elizabeth. He works at a bar and in the last month and a half, two of the guys he works with and has become friends with have been through assault and having to watch their girlfriends raped.

    - one of my friends that I met at university in SA was beaten twice into unconsciousness by her boyfriend. I also witnessed his verbal abuse to her, in person, and on her side of the phone.

    - I was sexually assaulted as a 7 year old girl by my same age friend and his teenage brother

    I am at a loss. I have been a longtime reader and sometimes poster here, and while I usually cope as well as can be expected after a few years of having the wool taken away from eyes in regard to the patriarchy, I’m feeling it like a 2000 ton weight.

    I’m so sick of all of this. And no end in sight…

  15. Zofia Szeretlek

    Twisty would have a never-ending supply of things to blog about here should she ever visit my former country. Australia wins the excellence award in misogyny, hands down.

    The cover up by Queensland Health is no surprise at all, though. For the past decade the approach by higher ups has been to ‘just not mention it to anyone’. I’m no longer alarmed when family members who work in the industry tell me some of the ‘goings-on’….

  16. invisible hussein

    And now for Name That Misogynist!

    Dear Twisty,

    (with no sexuality intended, I sometimes would love to smother you with a gazillion kisses.)

  17. invisible hussein

    AngryYoungFemme: I’m so sick of all of this. And no end in sight…

    I beg to differ. There IS an end in sight. Justice DOES prevail.

  18. sevanetta

    I feel the same as blue milk does.

    Although, Ms Blue Milk, it’s nice to see you here too.

  19. Lauredhel

    The story is horrifying.

    I had a look at this story at the time, but ended up holding my fire on blogging it, awaiting further confirmation from other sources. Tony Koch has a long history of opining about how primitive and savage Indigenous peoples are, unlike we lily-white civilised sorts who are terrorised by the black menace.

  20. pisaquari

    When will the moon be inhabitable?

  21. Twisty

    Yipes, Lauredhel. The creepy racist theme of the story to which you link is undeniable. The story I read contained no specific white supremacist agenda.

  22. CafeSiren

    Wow, lauredhel: racist *and* voyeuristic. A Fox affiliate, I note, unsurprised.

  23. crowlie

    Yep, that’s the sons of the convicts for you. Racist and sexist. Anne Summer wrote “damned whores and god’s police” about the Patriarchy’s treatment of women during the foundation of Australia and nothing much has changed since.

  24. Somebody with problems

    Invisible hussein, you know what?

    I don’t believe you.

  25. Gumleaf

    Yeah, it’s pretty bad over here… I got sick of the aussie male culture some years ago – simply gave up trying to find boyfriend among the self centred, self-entitled, blokey, macho, culturally unsophisticated, intellectually undeveloped, openly chauvinist, childlike Australian men (did I mention the over-inflated but veery fragile egos?).

    Now I’m just happy being single. I wonder though – is there any country thats a bit better than the others – I heard the scandinavian countries breed comparatively enlightened males (I mean, they are thinking of taxing all men at a higher rate so as to discourage women from giving up their jobs when they have a baby -in an effort to correct for the pay-gap). That sounds pretty progressive (short of total revolution, which may take centuries (?!)).

    Anyway – you yanks thought you had it bad over there- HA! Australia is the land of the Blokey Male (blokey= beer swilling, proudly unsophisticated and inarticulate, and just generally useless).

    As for all the misogyny reported in the media – I think most aussie women have seen and heard so much of it we’ve become numbed to it. And it would seem the lads-movement (ahh the new generation of misogynists) has regrouped and is rising once again. But, there are pockets of resistence (beside the fact that over 50% of women don’t want to get married and 25% are refusing to have kids – that’s a pretty good resistance don’t you think?) – there are the annual Ernie awards where sexist remarks and behaviour are named and shamed publically. Actually the awardees probably wear an award as a badge of honour…. did I say it was bad over here…

    Hmmm back to my books, music and blogging ;-)

  26. crowlie

    Gumleaf I agree that many Aussie women are numb now to cock culture… but don’t you think the use of the so called “baby-bonus” to lure young, inexperienced and under educated women into having children for the Fuhrer needs a little more resistance?

  27. Gumleaf

    crowlie
    Mar 22nd, 2008 at 10:23 am

    Oh yes, but don’t get me started!!!!! As it just happens, I’ve just read three newspaper articles (in the semi-decent sydney morning herald) about this very topic, and it seems the both the previous and present governments (diametrically opposed politcally -well, nominally anyway) would rather fork out HUGE cash sums to keep the poorer women of australia pregnant and barefoot (coz we all know they’re spending it on plasma tvs and not essential items) -and breeding a welfare underclass whilst doing so) instread of coughing up LESS money to give parental leave to working mums (and dads-though thats a whole other topic) and so maintain that vital link between working women and their jobs (i.e. independence from men, self esteem, and sadly, status in society -stay at home mums (and dads) have little, though I think thats a bizarre form of prejudice, and entirely unnatural -no doubt stemming from the very male-centric work culture we have over here, where shuffling papers from 9-5 everyday has more status than raising a child – a fairly warped view if you ask me).

    Anyway, now it looks like paid maternity leave – of which we are only 1 of 2 OECD countries NOT to have ANY – is going to be used as a political football.

    The baby bonus was dreamt up by a man -as a once-off contribution to the cost of raising kids (with dark parallels to the ideal evolutionary role of men in creating the child in the first place….i.e. wham bam thank you mam, and no continuing care afterwards -thats his genes reproduced at virtually no cost to himself).

    And I hate to say it, but the baby bonus does nothing -or very little- to allow women to maintain, even build their careers throughout the first years of having kids -like men do. And I would not be surprised if it had any effect on the fertility rate of the upper echelons of the educated strata of women, who, after having invested years and years into building their career, view child-rearing as a career break they would rather do without (if they can’t find a good stay-at-home-dad partner).

    Anyway, all this means is that ausrtralias population will continue to fall – and probably get dumber- which is quite a good thing for the environment actually. I’m all for population reduction, and we can follow the lead of super-macho chauvinistic countries like japan, italy, etc., whos populations are all falling as women are increasingly choosing not to breed (or not to breed with whats on offer anyway!).

  28. Lauredhel

    Shorter Gumleaf: We shouldn’t give lower-class people money! They’ll only spend it, and breed more stupid people!

    We blame the patriarchy here, Gumleaf, not women who don’t live up to your lofty ideals.

  29. Gumleaf

    I’m sorry you interpreted what I wrote that way, as that is not what I meant. But when women who are 2nd and 3rd generation welfare dependents, see the baby bonus as sort sort of cash payout to buy non-baby-related items that they otherwise would have not been able to afford, and another child is born to someone who does not have the life skills let alone ambition to even take care of themselves financially, then I don’t see that as helping the women involved, or the kids. You think the kids of welfare dependents are going to grow up into self-aware individuals who’ll help crush the patriarchy? Maybe, but probably not. Poverty amongst women (particularly single mums) is a real problem, and the baby bonus must seem like a pot of gold to people living below the poverty line. I’ve seen how some of these people live, and yes it is their decision to have as many kids as they want, but it is just further entrenching them and their families in a situation where none of them will reach their true potential as human beings.

    And besides, that wasn’t the main point of my rant, my point was that the baby bonus does nothing to maintain the link between working women (of all socioeconomic groups) and their jobs, independence, their exposure to domestic violence (which peaks when a woman is most vulnerable – when heavily pregnant and suckling). In this light I see the baby bonus, as an unsatisfactory alternative to paid maternity leave, as a way of keeping women down; the (mostly male) pollies thought this a better alternative than the paid maternity leave option, even though it’s more expensive. What does THAT say!!!??

    But way to turn the argument round to suit your class-related agenda!

  30. Sigh

    I wonder if it’s possible to blame the patriarchy and the misogynists without blaming the country? Yeah Australia has some bad patriarchal crap happening it and it makes me sick. But in the same way I don’t write off all of America when I see constant examples of this, please don’t make comments about all of Australia.

    Twisty didn’t and there’s no need for anyone else too. Even if you live in Australia.

  31. kage

    Has anyone ever actually met a poor young women who spent the baby bonus on a plasma screen TV, because I’m sick of the classist judgements of the media who bring this up. I still live in the poor area I grew up in and am yet to meet anyone who has done this. If anyone spends the money on luxury goods I would guess it’s the people who earn enough money that the bonus is just a nice windfall.

    Sure there are bad parents, but they ain’t all single and they ain’t all poor.

    You know Gumleaf, some of the best ‘patriarchy crushers’ I know were brought up in poor households (myself included). The area I’ve lived in for all of my 36 years has many kick-ass women who have advanced the cause of women in many ways, and who have raised their own daughters to be independent, self sufficient adults.

    I do agree that paid maternity leave is required, but I doubt your assertion it would be cheaper than the current bonus. Do you have a reference for that claim? If so, I’d like to use it myself.

  32. Gumleaf

    Kage:

    Quote from:http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/paid-leave-for-mums-a-given/2008/03/22/1205602736038.html

    “[Maternity leave]was never about who paid. In line with Britain, it was to be government-funded – no payment required by employers. Despite my insistence on this, government ministers repeatedly, consistently, and I can only assume deliberately, raised this furphy. It was never about the money. The price tag – $319 million in 2002 dollars – was much less than the rightfully maligned maternity payment has ended up costing the taxpayer.”

    Pru Goward is the former federal sex discrimination commissioner and now state member for Goulburn.

    I never said there was a correlation between being poor and being a bad parent. But there is a cortrelation between living in poverty and growing up underpriviledged, and having less access to good education, healthcare etc.

    My argument was that *if* the baby bonus is acting as an *incentive* for couples/women who are living below the poverty line to have more kids, then I think thats a pretty Bad Thing. And it would seem that this is what a fair number of couples/women are doing, as the government is thinking of introducing the baby bonus is installments or as food vouchers or vouchers to buy necessary goods. Ok, I don’t agree with this nanny-state approach, but it would indicate that there is some evidence that the baby bonus is not being used in the way in which is was intended to be used, i.e. to provide for the baby.

    By the way, I think the comparatively wealthy career woman/men who has a baby for god knows what reason and then puts it in long term child care is the worst of all parents (oh, go on, flame me, but why the feck would someone want to have kids and then get strangers to care for them from when they’re only a few weeks old. That just makes me want to cry!). So *there*!

  33. Gumleaf

    Ugh, sorry ’bout the typos/poor spelling.

  34. Sigh

    Gumleaf, the government has taken that approach (vouchers instead of cash) with Centrelink payments made to Aboriginals in certain communities. Now they can’t save up their money to buy things like washing machines when their current ones break down. This is from an article in the SMH from a few weeks back.

    Vouchers aren’t the solution to the problems you bring up (real or perceived) with giving money to poor people, but education and trust should be part of the solution.

  35. Gumleaf

    I didn’t say I agree with the vouchers approach -I don’t like it myself, but I put it forward as an indication that there is an awareness that some sections of the community are ‘misusing’ the baby bonus, and this was offered as one solution.

    I agree that education and trust are better approaches.

    And whoa nelly, I’m not getting into a debate on the situation of aboriginal people in this country – that’s waaay too complex and even though I have my views, I seriously don’t have the cred or background to back up any arguments I might make. But I can say thank the rainbow serpent that at least the new government finally had the intellectual wherewithall and balls to say sorry to the stolen generations.

  36. kage

    Thanks for the link, Gumleaf.

    Re; Baby bonus. It is already paid in installments (rather than a lump sum) to girls under 18.

  37. Lauredhel

    By the way, I think the comparatively wealthy career woman/men who has a baby for god knows what reason and then puts it in long term child care is the worst of all parents

    Oh for fuck’s sake. The “worst of all parents” is the bloke who constantly rapes, beats and burns his daughter, or sells her into prostitution. Get some fucking perspective.

    You also said this:

    the baby bonus does nothing -or very little- to allow women to maintain, even build their careers throughout the first years of having kids

    How exactly do you suggest women build their careers while child-rearing in our current society without using any childcare?

  38. daz

    “Tony Koch has a long history of opining about how primitive and savage Indigenous peoples are, unlike we lily-white civilised sorts who are terrorised by the black menace.”

    You must be thinking of some other Tony Koch. This Tony Koch won the 2006 Graham Perkins Award – Australian Journalist of the Year for his coverage of indigenous issues, and the 2007 Walkley award in the ‘all media coverage of indigenous affairs’ category.

  39. Gumleaf

    Lauredhel:

    Ok, touche on getting some perspective. I was a bit surprised at the hostility of your response though!

    >How exactly do you suggest women build their careers while child-rearing in our current society without using any childcare?

    I would suggest that both parents take it in turns to sacrifice their careers for periods to raise *their* child, until its old enough to go to school. Actually.

    Your question presupposes that it is the womans responsibility to rear their children, when I would say half that responsibility falls on the father, to provide practical day-to-day child care. Of course the % of men out there that are willing to sacrifice their career- even a couple years of it- may not be high, but I think it is the ideal situation (this is how I was raised!).

  40. Lauredhel

    I was a bit surprised at the hostility of your response though!

    Surprised at finding angry feminism at IBTP? Who’d'a thunk it?

    “How exactly do you suggest women build their careers while child-rearing in our current society without using any childcare?”

    I would suggest that both parents take it in turns to sacrifice their careers for periods to raise *their* child, until its old enough to go to school. Actually.

    Hence: “In our current society”. What percentage of mothers, do you think, have a bloke in the house long-term who can and will do fully half the childcare for many years on end? And why are you labelling the women who aren’t in this extraordinary position of privilege the worst kind of parent?

    Your question presupposes that it is the womans responsibility to rear their children

    No, it presupposes that in our current society, as things stand, most mothers have no choice but to do full-time childcare themselves, or hire help.

    I think the comparatively wealthy career woman/men who has a baby for god knows what reason

    Missed this the first time. What reasons do you think they have for having babies?

  41. Gumleaf

    “Hence: “In our current society”. What percentage of mothers, do you think, have a bloke in the house long-term who can and will do fully half the childcare for many years on end? And why are you labelling the women who aren’t in this extraordinary position of privilege the worst kind of parent?”

    Well maybe they should think about that before they have kids and get into a situation of having to raise them single-handedly. I actually think women should not put up with the lazy self-entitled men who don’t do their fair share around the house. You mean to tell me that the women that moan and bitch about their husbands/partners not doing their equal bit around the house had absolutely NO idea that their partners were going to be so lazy/self-entitled? That men just go from being cooperative helpful souls that just pitch in without being asked, to lazy slobs that want dinner on the the table by 7pm and sits around watching TV while the wife does the vacuuming?

    I say much of the blame for womens ‘double-shift’ lies at their own feet – and if the guy can get away with being a lazy slob around the house more often than not that’s what he’ll become…

    “And why are you labelling the women who aren’t in this extraordinary position of privilege the worst kind of parent?”

    Well they’re not the absolute worst, as you pointed out, and I am labelling men who do this similarly.

    “No, it presupposes that in our current society, as things stand, most mothers have no choice but to do full-time childcare themselves, or hire help.”

    Oh what a load of crap. Of course they have a choice. They could try not being doormats to the men in their lives. They could try putting their friggin’ foots down and making it a ‘make or break’ issue. They could CHOOSE not to get involved with lazy, self centred, unreconstructed guys in the first place. They could choose to have the hard conversations about who sacrifices career BEFORE they get pregnant, but Oh, no they wouldn’t want to rock the boat and appear to be too much of a feminist to their partners lest their partners decide they can go and find a less ‘difficult’ woman to cohabit with.

    I’m not saying all childcare is bad, but the long-term childcare catering for 6 month-olds is seriously sad for all concerned.

    “Missed this the first time. What reasons do you think they have for having babies?”

    I actually don’t know! Never had a burning desire for kids myself so can’t discuss this with you.

  42. Lauredhel

    “Well maybe they should think about that before they have kids”

    “moan and bitch”

    “much of the blame for womens ‘double-shift’ lies at their own feet”

    “doormats”

    “They could CHOOSE”

    Yes, yes, you’re obviously 100$ right. Women are their own worst enemies, and are fully responsible for the patriarchy. Also, war, rape, domestic violence, free-market health insurance, the colour pink, unsolicited email, Free Republic, golden staph, processed cheese product, feral cats, and Who Wants To Be A Superhero.

  43. Gumleaf

    Well, if you’re going to take my argument to absurd extremes for which it was never intended, I won’t bother arguing with you…

  44. Twisty

    Gunmleaf, this is a patriarchy-blaming blog, not a woman-blaming blog.

  45. Gumleaf

    Yes I realise that twisty, but I just think that women are sometimes not aware of their own immense power to shape the behaviour of the men in their lives (in their homes). Of course Lauredhels right – it would be abhorrent to blame women for most of the injustices women experience in this partriarchal society, but I am of the firm belief that we all -each and every one of us, male and female- *teach* the people we interact with on a daily/weekly basis how to treat us.

    If you start going out with someone who has chauvinistic views, dump them quick!

    If your boyfriend even threatens violence, leave him.

    What I am talking about is not blaming women for patriarchal injustices, but I am advocating that they reclaim thier own power in their interpersonal relationships.

    Of course, if you have a chauvinistic, misogynistic boss/colleage/brother/etc., then there’s not much you can do except quit/argue with them till your blue in the face or just remove them from your lives. And of course there are a multitude of situations where you will be affected by a prevailing boys club, chauvinistic societal expectations etc, and of course the patriarchy is to blame, but I think you have to know how to pick your battles… and in the area of personal relationships, women have most of the power, because they have the power to LEAVE, and Lauredhel and I were discussing domestic issues.

    I am not blaming women, I am urging them to FIGHT back at the injustices in their relationships.

  46. sigh

    “women have most of the power, because they have the power to LEAVE, and Lauredhel and I were discussing domestic issues.”

    this smacks of so much privilege I don’t even know where to start.

  47. Gumleaf

    “this smacks of so much privilege I don’t even know where to start”

    Really? Why? I would like your opinion as to why this is so. The only caveat to this ability of women to leave is if they have young kids, which, granted, can make it seem impossible to leave. But other than that I think its pretty valid. One thing to point out is that in Australia there is a pretty decent welfare net, and nobody really has to live on the streets -I’m not saying its the easy life (I’ve lived on welfare before by the way) but it’s doable.

  48. crowlie

    The problem is that if you leave, as I did after being threatened with a beating by a “good christian man (TM)” you end up living on the tender mercies of the Guv’mint and after 10 years of the Howard reich that is not exactly a picnic.

    Now he gets to live pretty much as he chooses, which includes not paying child support while at the same time blaming my lack of income on me… To whit, teaching the kids that not being able to make ends meet is not the result of having to live on a disability pension because of emotional trauma suffered in the cult he still frequents but because of financial mismanagement and selfishness.

    So yeah, I have the power to leave, dress in op-shop clothes, live on anti-depressants and serve as a political football for every knuckle dragging cock culture spokes ork who needs to blame women for being ungrateful or unchristian.

    When you’ve had it belted into you all your life that to act as anything other than a tarted up fembot doormat will invite violence and/or rape, walking out the door and starting a new life takes a bit more than simply deciding to teach him a lesson.

  49. Gumleaf

    I think that’s fantastic that you had the strength to leave a violent situation – and for you this obviously took a lot of guts due to your background, so it is even more admirable. To my mind, nothing is worse than living in fear of violence -I couldn’t do it myself. I understand that some men only reveal their true misogynistic colours when they have you locked down (when married with kids etc) and words can’t express how low I think these sorts of vile predators are – but unless women stand up for themselves, some men will do whatever they want for however long they’e allowed to get away with it. It’s like they’re woman-hating robots-devoid of feeling, absolutely no empathy, power control freaks who feel an not-to-be-reasoned-with need to dominate (would love to understand the psuchology of this type of person). They’re sub-human.

    But at the end of the day is it not better to be poor but free, and living a life of integrity and self respect? From the sounds of it you think so too, and for that I raise my glass to you.

  50. sigh

    “But at the end of the day is it not better to be poor but free, and living a life of integrity and self respect? ”

    questioning the integrity and self respect of those who aren’t able to move out for whatever reason sounds a lot like women blaming.

    Go over to the forums and read a few posts about victim blaming and about how hard it is to leave a partner. Head on over to blogs like Feministe (or even this blog here) and read a few more posts and TRY to understand that your opinion is not the be all and end all. Just because you think a woman should be able to leave any situation that’s not 100% perfect, doesn’t mean anything in this world. It’s your opinion. It’s not fact. It’s women blaming. And for those women who can’t leave, THEY ARE NOT AT FAULT. that’s it. There’s no more on that. The men are at fault, the patriarchy is at fault.

  51. Gumleaf

    I wasn’t woman blaming!!!

    Of course it’s my opinion, and of course it is not the be all and end all, that is a given, but your opinion is your opinion too! What makes your opinion any more valid than mine???!!!

    “There’s no more on that. The men are at fault, the patriarchy is at fault.”

    All I am trying to do is to have a discussion about a feminist issue, and here I am getting shut down by a fellow feminist – so I guess the free expression of opinion is not not on by you and that that I can just take my unintentionally heretic views elsewhere?

    Jeebus H. Christ. I am seriously disappointed in the level of dogmatismm I’ve encountered in the few days since I’ve been posting. I am a feminist but I am also a free-thinker, and whilst I think the patriarchy is a malignant force in womens lives, to varying degrees, I could never be so dogmatic or one-dimensional as to the causes and solutions of womens problems. I thought the title of this blog was indicative of the focus of discussion, not a dogma never to be questioned at all.

    If we women want the male population at large to question their attitudes towards women (and feminism), and to start to to think outside the current patriarchal paradigm (which many men dont’ even know they’re in- hence the self-entitlement, I think a level of give-and-take in discussion promotes the ability of participants in that discussion to see each others viewpoint. But if someone says, sorry I’m not listening to you, you’re WRONG, end of discussion, what affect do you think that has on the reciever of such an opinion -more likely than not they’re simply not going to listen to you anymore and be more resistent to listening to anyone talk about that particular topic in the future.

    So the fact I can’t even try to debate a feminist issue here on a feminist forum -with good intentions i.e. not trolling -without getting shut down by a fellow feminist, well I have to tell you I’m disappointed, and I will take your suggestion and go elsewhere in an attempt to find a forum that actually encourages a robust debate about issues which affect us all.

    Twisty – I admire your conviction, insight and word-smithery, but you were on the money the first time I blogged, but for the wrong reason. This blog is definately not for a free thinker/intellectual debater such as myself. I wish you fantastic success in your war against the patriarchy!!

  52. sigh

    “So the fact I can’t even try to debate a feminist issue here on a feminist forum -with good intentions i.e. not trolling -without getting shut down by a fellow feminist, well I have to tell you I’m disappointed, and I will take your suggestion and go elsewhere in an attempt to find a forum that actually encourages a robust debate about issues which affect us all.”

    Whatever your intentions were, you were attacking the integrity and self respect of anyone in a less thna perfect relationship. I never suggested you LEAVE here, only that you read up on the sorts of issues you’re talking about before coming to a SAFE FEMINIST PLACE and talking about how it’s women’s fault when we’re in relationships that involve abuse, laziness etc etc. You go on the defensive and accuse me of shutting you down when you have insulted me (not directly) in every post. I am part of a relationship that is less than ideal. I’m trying to get the courage together to leave. Just because I haven’t yet done so does not mean that I have no dignity or self-respect, nor does it mean his shortcomings are my fault. At the end of the day HE IS IN THE WRONG. Even if I stay, HE IS STILL THE ONE DOING THINGS WRONG.

    To come here and talk about how we should just leave if things are bad, and bad relationships are the fault of the women because they should leave, THAT’S ATTACKING US. Stop talking about what power I have in a bad relationship. If you have been in this situation and gotten out of it, congratulations. I’m truly happy for you that you managed to get yourself out of such a situation. To those of us who haven’t however, we don’t need your blame.

    And to people in wose situations than me? Ones that involve abuse or DV? They don’t need to be blamed and they are not at fault. There are thousands of things worknig against someone who leaves a relationship, and not that many things helping.

    Don’t be surprised that women on a radfem blog take offense when you blame women.

  53. justicewalks

    Gumleaf,

    I don’t know if you’re still reading, but you’re not alone. There is an unspoken rule in feminist circles that we are never to suggest that women’s masochism is as necessary to patriarchy as men’s sadism. To even insinuate that women could just choose to withdraw their energies from men is enough to send most feminists into a tizzy. They’d rather talk about ways to deceive/train/manipulate/beg/plead their boyfriends and husbands into mimicking respectful behavior.

    And that’s great if what you’re after is a kinder gentler patriarchy, “benevolent” masters, so to speak, but female freedom does not require that we make deals with men or that we cajole and petition them to treat us better. In fact, if we get what we want by begging and pleading (or nagging or withholding sex or letting the house deteriorate into a pigsty to *show him*), we’re only perpetuating patriarchal notions of power and authority. We’re validating the patriarchal arrangment, in which men are in a position to “grant” us our freedom or humane treatment and demand gratitude for it.

    Anyway, I just wanted you to know that there’s at least one other feminist on the planet who doesn’t see your advice that women actually look out for our *own* best interests, rather than waiting for men to give a damn (be it employers, husbands, governments, fathers, sons, etc.), as woman-blaming. I mean, heaven forbid we should make raising women’s standards and expectations to the point where women don’t feel as though they *need* (let alone *want*) men to do anything for them as a feminist priority. While the men may very well “be in the wrong,” I don’t see a problem with leaving men to be in the wrong all by themselves.

    I certainly didn’t take your statements about leaving men as being applicable to women whose lives are in immediate danger should they choose to walk out, but rather a statement of the fact that for plenty of women, being able to eat the kinds of food they *like*, not need, wear the kinds of clothes they *like*, not need, and/or live in the kind of neighborhood they *like*, not need, all outweigh the dignity and feminist integrity to be found in seeking out non-heterosexual (dare I say non-mothering) living arrangements. Not every woman in a “bad” heterosexual relationship has a gun to her head, literally or figuratively. Many of them simply prefer bad heterosexual relationships to the mere thought of poverty, lesbianism, and/or solitude. And I agree with you that that deserves discussion.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>