Well if I came off as blaming individual women for patriarchy than that was definitely not what I meant, and not my intention. I agree, I definitely don’t think it’s women’s fault that stripping or sex working, or wearing makeup, for that matter, even exists. It’s the patriarchy’s fault, it’s men’s fault.
And my response was pointing out exactly that: that we cannot all be perfect feminists. I guess my writing came off in a way I didn’t intend it to.

None of us can be perfect feminists because we exist within patriarchy. I would rather BTP than other women.

I do hate that feminism is seen by “pro-feminist” men as just using the word ’sexist’ gratuitously and referring to women these days being ‘career oriented’.

I am not sure where you missed this part Pant-Hoot? This is why I think there’s a difference between the being a stripper and occassionally wearing lipstick to work.
And I think it’s rude to imply I am an entitled snob and then say:
“I think sex work is poison. I also think you shouldn’t kid yourself. (Thanks in advance for not getting defensive or having a fit about this.)”
In order to place me in some sort of argumentative trap (I can’t find the right words for it). Don’t personally insult me by calling me an entitled hypocrite and then expect me to not get defensive.

What am I kidding myself about? What entitlement? If you’re going to make comments and assumptions like that, explain yourself. I have no problem with being told that I am not really living up to my feminist potential, but I DO have a problem with someone telling me I am “entitled” or hypocritical for thinking sex-working is not feminist. Did I say wearing a skirt and lipstick is feminist, for Maude’s sake? No.

wait- *another* feminist? How come you get to wear patriarchy-pleasing drag to work and still get to call yourself a feminist (albeit one having an off day), but someone who wraps her legs around a pole is not a feminist by definition? Geez Louise, with the entitlement.

Pointing out that there’s a big sexist continuum you fall into is great- good on you for your self-awareness. Arbitrary line-drawing on that continuum (’I can wear lipstick and a short skirt to work, but I’m still a feminist because… it’s not my *job* to do that, so it’s ok!’) is pointless and hypocritical.

I think sex work is poison. I also think you shouldn’t kid yourself. (Thanks in advance for not getting defensive or having a fit about this.)

“Also, I’ve encountered many an asswipe who believes that he is feminist because he thinks women should be allowed to vote and have a job outside of the home.”

I second that! Men who like to believe they are the most feminist are the ones who never even question their own privilege and sexism. About two years ago I was walking to my car from class with this guy (he was in my class) and somehow the subject of feminism or women’s rights came up. He then started bragging about “oh, I’m not sexist, I’m totally a feminist!” blah de blah blah. :P
It’s annoying.

I think a woman who wraps herself around a poll can be a feminist. What she does for a living is not, obviously, but sometimes we all do shit that is anti-feminist. I hate the way I look and sometimes wish I could afford plastic surgery, does that mean I’m not feminist? I sometimes smile at a man when he tries to chat me up even though inside I want to punch his face in. Patriarchy fucks us all up.

Back to the main topic, I agree with everyone saying that men can’t be feminists, although they can be allies.
Also, I’ve encountered many an asswipe who believes that he is feminist because he thinks women should be allowed to vote and have a job outside of the home.

I think part of the problem is that Mr. Diab’s ‘first feminist ideas’ get to be op-eds in the Guardian. As if there weren’t, you know, actual feminists to consult. Why is his voice the one receiving international print attention? When I have my first ideas about nuclear non-proliferation, I don’t get a slot in the op-ed pages of the NYTimes. It’s another version of the idea that anything women do requires no skill or thought or experience. And that men are better at it.

I especially didn’t get your analogy that feminist men would be like you being a woman of colour (I assume you aren’t). The correct analogy would be saying it’s like you being anti-racism. He doesn’t want to be accepted as a woman, after all. Feminism is not a divine right of women only.

I’m sorry if I misunderstood you or didn’t explain myself well, as my mother tongue is not English. By the way, I am a woman, and I don’t mind men being feminists. Actually, I firmly believe that not even nearly enough will be accomplished before all men hold feminist views. I mean, how else would you get equal treatment?

I’m not at the point yet where I’d put a label on my role with respect to feminism. But one thing I do know is that as a man, the only time I could call myself feminist is when I’m supporting feminist issues. If I’m in a debate about feminism, and I’m arguing a different point of view, I don’t get to go “I’m a feminist, but I’m opposed to your particular feminist viewpoint.” If I think your viewpoint, proposal, philosophy, argument or whatever has issues, I get to oppose it on its merits. And if my opposition is ignored or devalued because I’m a man, I have no right of complaint.
Mens voices get diminished and ignored in feminist movements, for good reasons.
Womens voices get diminished and ignored everywhere else. IBTP.