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Jul 09 2008

Fuck Obama, fetus brown-noser

Shall I rip my own mentally distressed head off now, or wait until after the election?

Barack Obama waxed not-so-poetic about late term abortion, the federal abortion ban and the validity of mental health exceptions in said ban to the Christian magazine Relevant last week, telling the interviewer that states should have the right to restrict or ban late term abortions. And Obama made no bones about the fact that, as he sees it, “mental distress” should not qualify as a threat to “the health of the mother”. [cite: Huffington Post].

Human rights abuses will continue unchecked until people, including trendy, with-it people, quit sentimentalizing, religiousizing, and politicizing reprofuckingduction. What’s it gonna take? A woman is a human being, whether her body has been colonized by a parasitic human growth or not. I mean, fuck.

74 comments

4 pings

  1. Claire (CJ)

    Oh fuckity fuck fuck!

    What the FUCK? Fuck is the only appropriate word I can muster here. What the hell (okay, so there’s another word) is wrong with this man, with people who think this way?

    Mental health is an irrelevant issue to the health of a mother? Are you fucking kidding me? It’ll sure be relevant when child services is called to step in because they decide she can’t handle shit, whether true or false or right or wrong.

    Concern which seems to materialize out of nowhere, since nobody gave a FUCK about it before the poor kid was born.

    I have a two-year old. Mental health is essential in parenting him. Babies are crazy-making of their own accord, and even the sanest among us can have their resources taxed to the limit by them. Taking my mother as an example, adding an unstable parent into the mix is quite the combustible nightmare.

    My ability to handle bullshit has officially been overwhelmed by this. This is fucking store-brand nuts.

    Fuck Obama. Fuck fetus-loving, brain-dead weirdos who think it fun and righteous to punish women with babies they don’t want or can’t raise, who then turn around and blame them for not being able to handle what they ALREADY SAID THEY COULDN’T HANDLE, hence the desire for an abortion.

    *Head explodes*

    CJ.

  2. hairylegs

    I agree wholeheartedly with your post. I am incensed by Obama’s statements.

    But isn’t it insensitive to call a black man a “brown-noser”? It sounds like you are alluding to his race.

  3. Dawn Coyote

    And, oh, the irony! of telling women who are talking about protest voting or abstaining that they MUST vote for Obama, or SCOTUS appointments could put Roe v Wade at risk.

  4. Twisty

    “But isn’t it insensitive to call a black man a “brown-noser”? It sounds like you are alluding to his race.”

    OK, he’s fetus-noser, then. Whatever bangs your box.

  5. mir

    I subscribe to the theory that politics is literally poison (because it’s a sledgehammer of the patriarchy, natch). The most well-meaning, well-adjusted regular folks can enter it- some of them starry-eyed “Oh I’ll change it from the inside tra la la rainbows and flags waving and multi-culti babies and shit!”- but it’s just poison. It rots them from the inside out, some kind of smelly gangrenous rot that turns them into plastic-jawed morons without the tiniest of scruples.

    I vote every election out of some vague sense of duty but I don’t ever believe a one of them will ever, in anyone’s lifetime, effect positive, progressive, healthy change in any way whatsoever.

    Who’s surprised that any of them- right, “left” or center- pander, equivocate, waffle, waver, lie, cheat, steal, backpedal and become weird, fake, corrupt facsimiles of actual human beings? None of us are, if we’re honest with ourselves.

  6. Vera

    I subscribe to the theory that Obama was a politico from the get-go. He could talk a good game; that’s all.

  7. Emily

    I was discussing this with a Dudely friend of mine and another article I read about how feminists are being threatened with “Vote for Obama or the other guy will take away Roe!” and he said, I shit you not, “What’s the problem with that? It’s true, and abortion is solved anyway.”

    SOLVED! SOLVED. Thank god this dude could let me know that everything is fine, and every abortion that is wanted is guaranteed.

    Christ on a CRACKER.

  8. goblinbee

    Brown is a color. Everyone’s shit is brown. A brown-noser does not refer to someone’s race.

  9. sevanetta

    OK, over the last couple of weeks, I’ve read a few different blog posts on this issue.

    I’ve been waiting for someone to make this comment or ask something about this issue. But NOBODY has spoken up about it yet. Nobody.

    So I’m gonna put some words to the white elephant in the room:

    All those people who voted for Obama because they thought he would be a better candidate than Clinton – and partly because they were sure / they weren’t worried about whether he would look after them in the area of reproductive health – are you kicking yourselves now? Seriously? I would like to know. (Not a rhetorical question – I really would like to know.)

    *disclaimer: did not get to vote for either as am not American and do not live in America. don’t kill me.*

  10. sue

    @ sevanetta

    yes.

    fuck.

  11. thebewilderness

    For a Constitutional Law Professor he seems a bit thin on Constitutional Law.

    According to friends and family who have come to talk to me about how they think they might have kinda sorta made an error in judgment, the answer to you question, sevanetta, is that some are. Many more are continuing with the magical thinking that is destroying amurrica.

  12. rootlesscosmo

    @ vera:

    I subscribe to the theory that Obama was a politico from the get-go. He could talk a good game; that’s all.

    Yup. What gets me are the people who suggest that Obama doesn’t really mean what he’s been saying about abortion and Israel and Cuba etc. etc. “Relax, he’s not really a right-wing shithead, he’s just a cynical hypocrite!” Thanks, I feel so much better now.

    I’ve been trying for a while to promote the slogan “This time, skip the infatuation and go straight to the bitter disenchantment,” but with only modest success. I’m starting to think a certain number of people on the Left (or whatever you want to call it) actually enjoy the infatuation and consider the disenchantment the price of the ride.

  13. Tony Kondaks

    Do pledged Obama delegates have the obligation to switch votes at the convention if they feel that he no longer represents the sentiments of those that elected him?

    The DNC rules not only allow it, they encourage it:

    http://www.pledgednotbound.com/

  14. TwissB

    Could we just give the self-insulting f-word a rest for awhile and start thinking about the facts of constitutional law that make it clear to all but those most infatuated with “saving” RvW that 1) Women have no acknowledged constitutional right except the right to vote 2) RvW’s pretence that women have any First Amendment right to anything is a fraud and every Supreme Court member including Ruth Bader Ginsberg knows it 3) All laws treating abortion differently from any other medical procedure are quintessential sex discrimination 4) Since women as a class have no 14th Amendment guarantee of equal protection of the law, sex discrimination (against women) is NOT unconstitutional 5) It doesn’t matter at all who gets elected president as long as American women continue showing deference to any pretexts- moral, legal, guilt-tripping, whatever – for men’s simply refusing to let women interfere with men’s imperial power to engage in reproductive activity without consequence to themselves and harass pregnant women without limit. Why get suckered into discussing the wholly arbitrary and irrelevant details when what we are dealing with is simply an ongoing attack on women’s distinctive reproductive organs (no danger of hurting a man there) by means of pornography, proatitution, and pregnancy abuse – all in the interest of subordinating women? Finally, it should be kept in mind that being graciously allowed to abort – i.e. clean up after Fang – is the liberal man’s way of pretending that he is any different from the conservative man, so men professing a “pro-choice” position as I suppose that Obama more or less does along with most Democratic pols are basically indistinguishable from the men who reject that position. The only politician who merits attention is that still unseen one who will tell the truth about RvW and women’s lack of constitutional guarantees and tell American women that they must define and go for a strong guarantee of equal protection of the law that outlaws sex discrimination against women and safequards human needs, not just men’s. (See, it’s possible to register a full-scale,if admittedly not witty, rant free of women-raping expletives which are the least witty words around). If this is women-blamimng, make the most of it. http://www.equality4women.org

  15. TwissB

    Free of expletives but not,alas, typos. prostitution. feminist-blaming.

  16. robyn

    Thanks for the unity pony, Barack! You’re doing an awesome job earning my vote! Oh wait. No you aren’t.

  17. Chai Latte

    Twisty, I could not agree with you more.

    I honestly feel that a woman, ideally, should not NEED a justification to have an abortion. “Because SHE has decided to have one” should be the end of it.

    Ugh, I feel sick now…

    Emily, I had a similar experience with my Nigel. He believed that the war in Iraq was more important than reproductive freedom. He honestly did not believe there was a serious danger to Roe V. Wade. However, I set him straight–and he responded to it quite well.

    I feel a little better now because I voted for Clinton.

    However, I’ve heard that Obama was doing his pandering to the right wing, and that’s why he said that. Even so, one wonders…why does it seem that it’s mostly Dems who do that?

  18. slade

    Remember…BO voted ‘Present’ seven times while an IL Senator where Choice was concerned….supposedly with the OK from Naral.

    BO doesn’t particularly like women…he likes them if they do what he wants, otherwise, they’re a pain. I believe he has issues with both his mother and grandmother (the white ones), and as a result is not adverse to kicking women around a bit. I don’t trust him as far as I could throw him….however, I would like to try.

    IMHO, HRC would have represented over half of the US citizens (women and children) with our needs in mind, especially poor women and children. Roe would have been safe…no questions asked. Now….who the fuck knows?

    Cynthis McKinney is looking better and better. Or can I hold my nose so tight that I can vote for BO? Hell, with martial law implemented by W before November, maybe I won’t have to make the choice…

  19. TP

    I don’t feel any delusion because I never felt any hope that a public figure would even dream of women as being anything but subordinate to self-interest and the all-important agenda of furthering male supremacy. Do we not live in a patriarchy?

    He didn’t come out and say “If it’s a choice between killing the homunculus or killing the worthless dirt bag that the homunculus is feeding off, kill the one who has already proven her worthlessness by allowing herself to sexually used by her betters.”

    I guess he’s just waiting to see if the polls are going south before he gets to that debased level of pandering.

  20. slythwolf

    Saw it coming. This man panders to the religious nutjobs at every fucking opportunity, and I have never seen him show any respect for women.

  21. Lemur

    “Historically I have been a strong believer in a women’s right to choose with her doctor, her pastor and her family.”
    -gasp- But I don’t have a pastor. Oh no! What ever shall I do if I get pregnant without a priest and my husband/father/owner to talk some sense into me? *swoon*
    Bite me, Obama.

  22. Mar Iguana

    “Whatever bangs your box.”

    Good grief.

  23. Tina H

    For a Constitutional Law Professor he seems a bit thin on Constitutional Law.

    I have to admit, in addition to his pandering on abortion, I’m also ticked off to no end that he voted for the FISA bill, kissing off a(nother) boatload of our civil rights. I’m all snarly.

  24. Twisty

    “Whatever bangs your box.”

    Good grief.

    ******

    Dear god I’m part of the problem.

  25. panoptical

    “This man panders to the religious nutjobs at every fucking opportunity”

    That, or he’s actually a religious nutjob himself.

  26. PhysioProf

    This is just a fucking nightmare, how Obama is just careening to the sick-fuck right with all this wackaloon misogynist theocratic bullshit.

    Does he really believe this garbage, or is he just pandering? And does it really matter, one way or the other? God fucking dammit, I am really fucking pissed off about all of this.

  27. Mikeb302000

    It certainly looks like Obama is turning out to be just another slick talking politician. Up until a couple weeks ago I was still hoping he’d be the first exception in my lifetime, but I must admit that’s beginning to seem overly optimistic and naive. He is a good talker though, I’ll give him that.

  28. Jonathan

    Damn that “Sorry for messin’ up your game” sexist turd, and the DNC.

  29. CLD

    Considering that HRC has not released her delegates, we could see an interesting convention if they’ll allow a vote count on the floor. HRC voted against FISA, by the way.

    I voted for HRC and thanks to all this bullshit right-wing religiosity being thrown around by Obama [who I believe to be a religious wing-nut], I’m actually not enjoying watching his supporters kick themselves in the arse.

  30. Narya

    Yeah, this one put me over the edge. He was specifically talking about abortions after 22-24 weeks (viability), when the states are able to make laws restricting access, so long as those laws include exceptions for life/health of the mother. It was in this context that he said made his remarks. Which makes it no less egregious.

    He said (citations and links at my site): he thinks mental health exceptions can be “‘rigorously’ limited to only those women with ‘serious clinical mental health diseases.’ He said mental health exceptions are not intended [to] permit abortions when a woman simply ‘doesn’t feel good.’ ‘It is not just a matter of feeling blue,’ Obama said.”

    Bite me, dude.

  31. ColoradoDem

    Ack!

    I never thought I’d contemplate wanting Clinton as the nominee, but this (and other things – like FISA {how come this doesn’t count as an *obviously* unconstitutional ‘ex-post-facto’ law?!}) has me *beginning* to rethink my position.

    However, it’s important to realize that Obama hardly has a lock on religious nut-jobbery. See this piece from Mother Jones: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html , or this one from the Atlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200611/green-hillary

    Since she seems to have kept this pretty low key, I cannot help but think that her membership in the Fellowship is a function of her genuine belief set. No one belonging to such a group can *ever* be trusted with reproductive rights. EVER.

  32. Jonathan

    From my Planned Parenthood Newsletter on July 8th:

    “Yesterday, the Planned Parenthood Action Fund took a step closer
    to putting a pro-choice president in the White House by
    officially endorsing Senator Barack Obama for president”

    and

    “This is a historic moment for our organization — it is only the
    second time in our long history that we have endorsed a
    candidate for president. We are confident that Senator Obama
    will be a strong leader and advocate for women’s health, and,
    with your help, we will focus all of our efforts in the next
    four months on getting him elected.”

    I feel sorry for PP having to waste their rare endorsement on an uncaring godbag.

  33. norbizness

    It’s like discovering that there are sexist tropes on Sanford and Son reruns, swearing off Nick at nite completely, switching over to E! just as a 24-hour Kardashian marathon begins, and then the remote control breaks.

    Except in politics, you know only one of two people will win, and there’s no binary opposite to the pure evil represented by the Republican candidate, just someone who doesn’t actively joke about killing Iranian civilians whenever given the chance.

  34. Lorna

    Just finished reading a friend’s open letter to Obama about her late term abortion. You can find it on her blog, Essential Estrogen:
    http://www.essentialestrogen.com/2008/07/an_open_letter_to_senator_obam.html

    I’m sickened by this — that Obama would say this and, for all we know, mean it. Of course, the thought of him saying it just to pander doesn’t leave me leaping through the tulips either.

    McCain or Obama, I’m starting to think that women are screwed.

  35. HereticChick

    We’re fucked…totally screwed with a stick by the gov’t. (pulls hair out) *sigh*

  36. Gayle

    “Since she seems to have kept this pretty low key, I cannot help but think that her membership in the Fellowship is a function of her genuine belief set. No one belonging to such a group can *ever* be trusted with reproductive rights. EVER.”

    Yes, she went to some of their prayer breakfasts. Guess what? So did Obama.

    I’m over this redundant “Obama’s bad, so Hillary must be worse” tactic. There no way Hillary would have pushed women under the bus on reproductive rights. No way at all. Obama’s already showing his willingness to do so.

  37. Lisa KS

    Note about PP’s “rare” endorsement: it ain’t rare. PP didn’t endorse him, the PP Action Fund did, which has only been around since 1989…there have now been four Dem presidential candidates since 1989 so actually they’ve now endorsed half of them.

  38. Dave

    Eh, I don’t think he’ll stay that way for long. He’s gotta move closer to the center to get the moderates to vote for him. Once he’s landed in office, you’ll see a shift back to how we remember him. This has been going on in both political parties for who knows how long.

  39. Gayle

    Dave,

    I don’t know the Obama you’re talking about. If you’ve read Obama’s book “The Audacity of Hope” you’d know he’s been advocating Unity with Republicans for years.

    When asked about his so-called move to the right yesterday, Obama stated that people haven’t been paying attention to what he’s said in the past. He’s right. They haven’t.

    How people can continue to project liberal, and even feminist hopes onto Obama, despite evidence to the contrary, amazes me.

  40. thebewilderness

    Yo, Dave, he never was how you remember him.

  41. Femsei

    I followed the democratic nomination race closely like many here in Canada and had every understanding that Obama’s campaign was heavy on the gospel language of “hope and change”–the “yes we can” scenario of bringing together a collective consciousness among many Americans. This occured.

    His strategy laid out in representations by media was very clear–unity. But his overall progress to inspire womyn and blue collar workers waxed and waned with little influence among Latina/os-(Hispanics).

    Overall, I knew this strategy of “presentation first–bring the people together” would become the biggest lie after the nomination was settled. It is my firm belief and impression that Hillary Clinton was clear and upfront with Americans by not presenting this (catastrophic) rhetoric among believers that “everything would be ok”–she appeared realistic, yet presented the possibilities for people to come together under more than just common circumstances. Clinton is not perfect, but her presentation as a politician surpassed that of McCain and Obama as believable and very grounded.

    I am personally incensed by his (non) comment on late term abortion and mental health. First of all, Obama is not a doctor nor is he in the position to experience the circumstances surrounding a woman’s bodily functions. His statement that mental health has nothing to do with the mother is predictably pro-life and is a paternalistic viewpoint that suggests womyn cannot know their own bodies.

    HE IS A PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE WHO HAS ESSENTIALLY REMOVED THE RIGHT OF WOMYN TO HAVE A VOICE CONCERNING THE RIGHT TO MAKE DECISIONS OVER THEIR BODIES. (no yelling just really pissed)

    As a result, Hillary Clinton needs to take a step back from Obama and his campaign against McCain. Is there something in it for her? What would that look like? Is Obama’s obvious shift in political strategy just that–a political shift not to be taken seriously?

    This will not sit well with those who have voted for Clinton and equally disturbing is how the end of the democratic nomination played out in the media–those that trashed her throughout couldn’t wait to prop her up somewhat and demand that she encourage her supporters to shift to Obama. Once again, leave it to a WOMYN (Hillary) to have to pick up the pieces of unity to prop up the man (Obama) so that he may shine.

    I feel for you all.

  42. goblinbee

    I wanted to like Obama, but have mostly been suspicious of him since hearing his Unity speech. With Clinton standing on the stage beside him, he said (referencing girls’ hopes and dreams in the U.S. because of Clinton’s campaign): “They can take for granted that women can do anything that the boys can do. And do it better. And do it in heels.”

    Most people taking umbrage at his comments have only seemed to mind the last part—the part about heels—but I find all of it patronizing. The first sentence reinforces the idea that men are the standard and that women are “other.” The second sentence sounds like insincere flattery while at the same time putting women on the perpetually loathsome pedestal. And the third sentence—good god (heels are akin to footbinding for me). I would love some white person standing on stage next to Obama to say, “Wow, you black people are really something. Look at all you’ve accomplished even with all the ways we’ve tried to hold you back!”

    Of course, it would only have the same zing if he’d just lost the nomination.

    –g

  43. goblinbee

    Also, he contrasts “women” with “the boys” in that first sentence. As in “good ol’ boys.”

  44. brainiac9

    Femsei, I agree with you 100%. I too am Canadian, and I was actually quite (pleasantly) surprised by the number of women up here who agreed that Obama seemed to talk good talk, but was maybe not intent on walking the walk. The vast majority of my acquaintance (admittedly, a very limited circle) who supported Obama were liberal dudes. Funny how few of that ilk seem all that concerned with women’s reproductive health or bodily integrity. >_

  45. Lara

    Christ almighty all of y’all I am with you. You ladies are practically the only ones willing and brave enough to tell the truth about Obama and all of those other frickin male candidates. I was always suspicious of his pandering to Christians.
    My sis and her best friend were going to a rally in Houston to support Obama and now I am going to send her the link to this blog post.
    I swear I really feel like leaving the U.S. period. This is absolutely depressing.

  46. Lara

    Yet another example of Obama and his complacence with blatant misogyny:

    http://news.aol.com/elections/story/_a/bernie-mac-joke-bombs-at-obama-event/20080712072009990001?icid=100214839x1205697789x1200270371

    Buddy buddy with Bernie Mac the asshole. :/

  47. bipolar2

    ** Pro-Life writ large is Mass-Death **

    “Pro-life” ranters are not pro-life. They are pro-birth. That dogma used to be called pro-natalism. It’s an androcentric, completely misogynistic, demand that no impediment whatsoever on *births* be permitted by law.

    What happens to mother and child after birth is irrelevant since the “laws” of nature will then cull weak from strong. “Pro-life” is pro-death — the death impulse of the big-3 monotheisms in full operation. They reject the ultimate ends of human life as belonging solely to culture, and posit some totally non-existent spiritual realm.

    Today’s pseudo-scientific justification of pro-natalsim belongs to social darwinism (really, created by Herbert Spencer). However, that’s merely a gloss on western religious demands — 6,000 years of god damned male domination. When will it end?

    Enough of ancient paternalistic tribal customs which cannot be enlarged to become a planet-wide ethos. (As Marvin Harris made very clear: reproduction will always win against food production, leading to de-facto slavery, degraded environments, and marginal living conditions. Technological intensification makes for only short-term solutions.)

    It should be obvious that pro-birth is not pro-life. In fact this sick religious ideology is pro-mass-death: creating disease, poverty, and ignorance worldwide by fostering overpopulation, damning safe non-reproductive sex, and blocking responsible medical research.

    bipolar2
    © 2008

  48. jami

    my dream president would hate war quite a bit more than obama and a hell of a lot more than mccain. but on reproduction policy, obama’s not different from hillary, fwiw. and he’s wildly different from john mccain. unlike mccain, obama doesn’t have to think for one nanosecond about whether he voted to require insurance companies to cover birth control pills. for obama, covering birth control is a no-brainer. but john mccain voted twice against requiring insurance companies to cover birth control.

    i dunno why i’ve been away from ibtp so long. but i’m back because i needed rock-solid feminist company after an obama fundraiser (bernie mac) called his own wife and daughter whores for laughs. the last couple weeks of obama have me rather disappointed. obama is still way better than mccain, but until this week, i was actually enthusiastic about this gun and faith based initiative and death penalty and wiretap fanatic.

    i’m so disappointed.

  49. Jonathan

    @jami:

    “but on reproduction policy, obama’s not different from hillary, fwiw.”

    I don’t buy it. I think a candidate’s history of action is far more important than their stated reproductive platforms, and there HRC is much more impressive. I consider HRC’s push for the Prevention First Act, her lead role in the three year fight to secure over-the-counter access for Plan-B, and her statement that “women’s rights are human rights” at the United Nations Conference in Beijing in 1995 to be much more important than Obama’s “present” votes in state legislature. A candidate’s policy, as Obama is showing us now, can be edited whenever it is convenient for the campaign strategists.

  50. Femsei

    brainiac9
    Jul 11th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

    “Femsei, I agree with you 100%. I too am Canadian, and I was actually quite (pleasantly) surprised by the number of women up here who agreed that Obama seemed to talk good talk, but was maybe not intent on walking the walk. The vast majority of my acquaintance (admittedly, a very limited circle) who supported Obama were liberal dudes. Funny how few of that ilk seem all that concerned with women’s reproductive health or bodily integrity. >_ ”

    I agree with your statement.

    The rhetoric in Canada has been in polling Canadians on prime-ministerial leadership if we were to have Obama running here in contrast to Stephen Harper (Con), Stephane Dion (Liberal), and Jack Layton (NewDems NDP). Elizabeth May (Green Party) does not seem to count in all of this. I blame the patriarchy, of course, and the media.

    However, the point in my yakking is “we” are so far behind here,in Canada, on political issues that it is next to impossible for most to visualize and make happen a female leader and candidate as Prime Minister of Canada let alone want to put her in office. Yes, we had Kim Campbell (Conservative), briefly, and after reading on comments she has made about her attempt to secure her PMship in the past and her struggles, including her positive acknowledgement of Hillary Clinton and her candidacy in what I’d say was both a statement of “proceed with caution” and “gender is an issue” for women in politics, I have to say that Kim shed her exterior after the years and showed us her feminist philosophical leanings. Her experience in politics, law, and justice may well have made her more feminist leaning, now, but we will not see a female PM candidate for a long time to come. Our political system here is biased toward womyn in politics, and the system itself makes it very difficult for womyn to “compete” with their male colleagues or opponents. Womyn in Canada, aspiring within the system of politics, are at a disadvantage, most certainly!

    With Hillary and Obama–gender is an issue (not ommitting race, but let’s get real, race was at the forefront of the dem-nominations to the extent that gender was the exclusion). And once this bluff has been called in November the pouring of insights on just how nasty gender has played out in this facade will hit the newsstands. Oh yes, they are there already, but not quite in the “aha” moment that most average citizens will comprehend or even care about.

  51. Satsuma

    You’d think women would stop being fooled by men in politics.

    Now why would a man running for president with the shakey credentials of an Obama ever be trusted with the abortion issue?

    Young women are living in la la land, because they weren’t there during Roe I, and older women I know are beyond childearing age, and they no longer care about this issue as much as they might have. I myself get disgusted with hetero women’s riveted attention on reproduction anything, sex with men issues dominating feminism etc. But that’s mean junk yard dog me (hey even dogs don’t diserve the dis)

    I couldn’t fathom why feminists were not supporting Hillary in droves, but just look at the blogs out there for Obama mania amoung young feminists, and radical feminist blogs who wouldn’t back her either. Call me Rip Van Winkle, but I’d been out of it for awhile, and then got into the blog game I think a couple of years ago. My, how times changed!

    I’m a hard liner … if she’s a fairly liberal or progressive woman, I vote for her, period end of it. I don’t want men representing me in droves the way they do now, and I don’t believe any man ever represents the best interests of women. We don’t get this apparently, and unfortunately are about to learn a really good lesson yet again.

    The minute I saw smooth snake oil salesman up there, and Kennedy women a ga ga, my reaction was ah oh spaghetti o’s!
    I’ve gone on record with strong Hillary support on other blogs, so I can crow see I told you so later!

    Let’s at least have the guts to know that Obama and McCain are mysteriously heading toward the center. mcCain Obama they are the same! I don’t believe for one minute that Obama will get us out of Iraq, and I don’t really believe most conservative men have the guts to throw out Roe. That would really give their little control the women game away.

    Look into the right to life people, and you’ll find that they’ve used abortion as a wedge issue all along. In the beginning, many of the right wing idiots we know and love today were actually in favor of Roe back then. Only the right wing puts out its own history erasing propaganda, and the Google generation might be reading challenged…

    I’m going to say, see I told you every time I get over this Obama snake oil anti-feminist stuff. I am really mad at women who should know better NOT backing Hillary. Women, come on! We need to regroup and get pretty damn tough on our local and state officials.

    Haven’t we had enough of “faith based” candidates to last us a lifetime anyway? Patriarch 1 or Patriarch 2, choose a lever…bet the liberal guy gets rid of Roe… $20

    Let’s ship Obama people back to feminism 101 class because someone promoted them way beyond their feminist abilities to begin with. Unless a million Gen X and Y women want to have Bayybeeezz by the dozen or two? Who knew? :-)

  52. jami

    satsuma, i voted obama not hillary, and i haven’t had any bayybeeezz. i don’t think that’s how it works.

    jumping to the conclusion that people who disagree with you are idiots is common, but it’s lazy. maybe because i’ve had the privilege of education and birth control (thank you, thank you, thank you, older feminists!!!), i care more about war than abortion rights. i do care about choice, and it still seems to me that obama and hillary are not different on reproductive policy. hillary’s push for the prevention first act (noted by jonathan) does distinguish her as a champion for reproductive options, but recall that reducing the need for abortion (while keeping it safe and legal) through education and birth control is something obama’s getting a lot of crap for right now, just as hillary got a lot of crap for it when she pushed it.

    i would LOVE a president who’s experienced life as a woman. but hillary was repeatedly awful on the subject of blowing up the middle east. i tried hard to forgive that she granted dubya carte blanche in iraq, until she voted again — in 2007! — to give him carte blanche in iran by calling their military “terrorists”. that was it. i was done forgiving her.

    now, mccain is 100 times worse than both hillary and obama on every goddamned issue. but obama is better than hillary on the subject of war. and they’re not (that) different on reproductive policy.

  53. Satsuma

    Actually, Obama’s Iraq speech was given before he became a Senator. After he was in the Senate he voted right along with the rest of them to keep funding the war. Now he’s wobbling about getting out in 16 months, and he has already broken his signed pledge about public funding for the campaign. He’s getting those corporate dollars right along with the rest of them, including some pretty hefty chunks from the nuclear power industry. Don’t hear much about that, or his pro-nuclear stances. They sweep that little gem right under the rug.

    We had a chance to get a good experienced woman in the White House, and a lot of young women just blew it in my opinion. How ungrateful, because this generation got abortion rights and birth control handed to you on a silver platter, and that old fashioned group of 60s activists pushed for equal credit. You probably don’t remember what happened before 1970 — that’s right, women marched so that women could get credit in their own name, and not have a man co-sign for them. A little forgotten piece of history there that helped fund the record number of women owned businesses in California.

    No, Obama has nothing to offer women. He is a snake oil salesman who preaches change, but has little idea of what this really will entail. Hillary did and would have fought a lot harder for health care, and has a track record of going for it the first time around. She gave the famous speech in Beijing “women’s rights are human rights.” Obama pays his female staff less than his male staff, while McCain actually pays his female staff slightly higher wages than his male staff. Not much about that little bit from the future hypocrite-in-chief I guess. Obama hasn’t even finished his first term in the Senate, and is getting a little too chummy with the religious right.

    But no, this history is meaningless to a whole generation of women who just got the results of all these battles, and have so little loyalty to women, that they just vote for the next naive man to claim the job, and then you wonder why women don’t run this country by now. I do blame you! I blame your inexperience, your lack of poltical understanding, and your unwillingness to see what Obama did on every funding bill, every military bill, and every act after both wars got going. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t think he has the guts to stand up to the military or the generals, and his foreign policy experience is actually less than mine, which really scares me. Such a disappointment, but then again, if you didn’t have to fight for all these women’s rights in the first place, why should you care if you have to whine and plead with yet another patriarch, begging for the crumbs at the White House yet again! I’ll be sure to tell you so with every screw up this man brings to government in this country.

  54. Gayle

    “I couldn’t fathom why feminists were not supporting Hillary in droves, but just look at the blogs out there for Obama mania amoung young feminists, and radical feminist blogs who wouldn’t back her either.”

    I couldn’t/can’t understand it either.

    “I’m a hard liner … if she’s a fairly liberal or progressive woman, I vote for her, period end of it. I don’t want men representing me in droves the way they do now, and I don’t believe any man ever represents the best interests of women.”

    Yes. I’m right here with you.

  55. Femsei

    Satsuma

    “As far as I’m concerned, I don’t think he has the guts to stand up to the military or the generals, and his foreign policy experience is actually less than mine, which really scares me.”

    So much for our combined US and Canadian ‘fantasmical’ systems of meritocracy, eh? Oh sure, womyn who have dynamic careers, have 20,000 babies (modest exaggeration), and decide to stay at home with the kids and keep house in the name of marriage and the family have done it ALL with the help of MERITOCRACY~! (TV commercial voice kicks in)…Yes, that’s right, even you can subscribe to the man-made illusion of our capitalist system. MERITOCRACY~! It slices! It dices! It weeds the weak ones out and if you don’t have a dick, then do we have a deal for you–EMPOWERMENT. That’s right–if you do not qualify for MERIT “dick” OCRACY and you are of a marginilized group (race, gender, sexual orientation) then you, too, can reap the marginal benefits and feel what it is like to be a dick with power for a day~!

    …but I digress.

  56. thebewilderness

    “Young women are living in la la land, because they weren’t there during Roe I, and older women I know are beyond childearing age, and they no longer care about this issue as much as they might have.”

    I hear this dismissive description of women’s attitude fairly often.
    It is the myth that will be used to explain the rolling back of human rights for women.
    The young women are ignorant and the old women don’t care. Does anyone really believe this obvious bit of propaganda?

  57. Femsei

    thebewilderness
    Jul 14th, 2008 at 10:21 am

    [thebewilderness quotes satsuma]
    “Young women are living in la la land, because they weren’t there during Roe I, and older women I know are beyond childearing age, and they no longer care about this issue as much as they might have.”

    [thebewilderness]
    “I hear this dismissive description of women’s attitude fairly often.
    It is the myth that will be used to explain the rolling back of human rights for women.
    The young women are ignorant and the old women don’t care. Does anyone really believe this obvious bit of propaganda?”

    No, not in its generalized context, but yes, young womyn are caught up in the mass production of commodified bodies–there exists a real complacency out there among women. Young women who I have come into contact with during my undergraduate years will often say to me “I am not oppressed and have not experienced discrimination”. I ask them to think about that and tell me what they think oppression and discrimination might appear or be experienced as when viewing, say, gender. Some cannot answer that and when I begin to explain what that might appear as or be experienced as by wimmin, they will make connections to their own experiences.

    On a wider scale, wimmin are cognizant at all age levels on what oppression and discrimination is to them. However, some still say that they are not oppressed, etc., but for those to be cognizant of its deeper roots would imply on some level that they have experienced oppression and discrimination and can speak to that experience.

    However, I find this last statement problematic–either one experiences or does not and Audre Lorde characterizes that very explicitly in her texts and essays on race, women, and sexuality. This is not a word for word quote but she does attest to the notion that unless one can experience the depth of oppression and discrimination through the lens of race, gender, and/or sexual orientation, disability, etc one will not begin to know the “othered” experience of this.

    I think, and I believe it is possible, that “we” (collectively) need to remind wimmin that they have a place in this world and remind them of what that might look like when they are not sheltered and/or blinded under mass media and advertising [to name a few]. But, I think today that wimmin are very aware and embrace a feminist philosophy in ways that do not always manifest into “thinking” feminism(s)–in other words, I think many young wimmin know it but they just can’t quite see it fully in relation to living in a very technological and high speed environment. And, this is an unusual time post 9/11 or, maybe not, as history does repeat itself.

    Clearly, though, there is a shift in the landscape from traditional feminisms, however, they are still alive and well among wimmin in different ways. They always creep in and I love it when wimmin who would have nary a clue have their “aha” moments. A younger generation of wimmin are carrying somewhat of a misunderstood torch on feminism(s), and what I am suggesting here is that many are negotiating where they “fit” in this patriarchal shithole! At the same time, I also love it when they seek out women’s studies programs or courses in their colleges or universities with a determination on their faces that often say “something just isn’t right with this man-made world”.

  58. ginmar

    Yeah, well, I’m getting pretty fucking sick of young feminists who’ve never known when abortion wasn’t legal calling women who voted for HRC bitter old dried up hags who need to get over it. They can stop that shit and I’ll stop taking umbrage. I hope they haven’t screwed themselves over. If they don’t want us pissed off, they can stop bashing Hillary and us. And frankly the way they regard BO as the savior, the messiah and all that shit is fucking scary. I’ve seen friends completely lose their shit, to the point that mental health professionals try and bully the mentally ill into changing their tune on Obama otherwise they’ll apply the pressure and use their power. Christ on a crutch already.

  59. Femsei

    Ginmar wrote:

    “And frankly the way they regard BO as the savior, the messiah and all that shit is fucking scary. I’ve seen friends completely lose their shit, to the point that mental health professionals try and bully the mentally ill into changing their tune on Obama otherwise they’ll apply the pressure and use their power. Christ on a crutch already.”

    yes, I DO GET PISSED OFF when women are complacent and complicit in patriarchal discourse and I will agree that there are many out there that “just don’t get it”!

    On another note, if I have contributed in some way in guiding a young “feminist to be” into, say, women’s studies or actively seeking out feminist organizations to become involved in or, my favorite, converting a christian bound womyn on a bus to leave her husband and think about what she wants for her future (yes, it’s true), then dammit, I have had a good fucking day!

  60. ginmar

    I’ve had people tell me they left abusive relationships thanks to me. That’s why I resent like hell being regarded as a bitter dried up old crone. The younger feminists really are burning bridges. Some of the stuff they’ve said and done is unforgivable.

  61. Satsuma

    Someone please explain why people over look Obama’s support of the war through his Senate funding votes! In order to continue the wars, you need the concent of Congress, last time I checked. Obama’s free ride in service to patriarchal savaging of Hillary.

    As for meritocracy, it exists to a certain degree. Why work for minimum wage, when there are clearly other options out there? Chose the wage, the industry, the whatever. Having no goals, ambition or determination doesn’t ever get anyone anywhere. So what’s the deal here? Women still working for miniumum wage? Oy vey! Guess women are still getting degrees in the usual low paid industries too!

    We need to get over this anti-money bias out there feminists; it’s why women are always begging for grocery money, why they don’t realize the economic devestation of having children, or giving up careers to stay home with the kids of the next presidential hopeful!

  62. Shannon

    “Do pledged Obama delegates have the obligation to switch votes at the convention if they feel that he no longer represents the sentiments of those that elected him?

    The DNC rules not only allow it, they encourage it”

    Too bad schmucks like Chris Redfern, Ohio Democratic Party chairman, don’t seem to think so:

    “Party leaders insist that every Ohio delegate will be squarely for Obama by August. Ohio Democratic Party Chairman Chris Redfern goes so far as to say that “here in Ohio, every delegate will be voting for Barack Obama on the first ballot, and we will be very excited to do so.”"

    (from http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stories/index.ssf?/base/isele/1215765013237120.xml&coll=2)

    Ass.

    I can’t decide whether I’m nauseated, want to do the “I told you so!” dance or both on Obama.

  63. Jonathan

    Obama’s patriarchal fetus-nosing will get him nowhere. No matter how much he acts like a GOP godbag, he is still from a minority group despised by much of this bigoted country.

    The “intellectual” New Yorker decided to play the race card as hard as it could against Obama this week, and on the front cover no less! (Which, unfortunately to no one’s surprise, meant that it was far meaner to Michelle Obama than it was to him).

    Obama won the primaries because sexism triumphed over racism. And now that HRC is off the ballot, the media is turning on him. That he didn’t see this coming shows that he is a fool. That he turned on women to appease the unappeasable GOP shows that he is a sexist ass unworthy of the trust of so many women.

  64. jami

    some obama supporters have been sexist/classist/ageist in talking about hillary supporters, no doubt about it. it was stupid politically, and more importantly, of course it was wrong.

    i don’t look down on hillary supporters, and i don’t think people should hold obama or all of his supporters responsible for what some dude supporters said. dudes like ice cream, but we don’t hold ice cream responsible for dudes’ sexism.

    i understand and respect the enthusiasm for hillary’s candidacy. but i believe obama will be a more peaceful president. now, i think some of hillary’s war shit was possibly because she is a woman, because there was extra pressure on her to be “strong” as indicated by blowing up middle eastern children. but my kind of strong person would have given obama’s iraq speech, not hillary’s iraq vote.

  65. Mar Iguana

    Notice the highlighting of the genital areas in that New Yorker cover? The toonist practically has arrows pointing to Michelle’s crotch and there’s that bulge in Barack’s “area” that looks like a stiffy. Not that racism has anything to do with sexism, of course. Nah. Uh uh.

  66. radicalteach

    i don’t care what color it is, a dick is still a dick.

    also,

    jami,

    a ‘peaceful president’? how do you figure after his senate votes to communicate otherwise? and that’s an awfully tall order. i think any leader of this country has always been guiding a country ‘at war’ or ‘not at war’.

    peace has never really been part of the equation.

  67. Alan

    Both Obama and Hillary seemed to be on the same page about reproductive rights, until one of them won the primary.
    It’s tempting to rouse up the politically popular “rhetoric vs. voting record” that would display a strange disparity between what he’s saying and what he’s done, but the fact that he’s gladly receiving any godbag asshole with a smile and assurances is easy to see and disappointing, to say the least.

    Although in the end, politics is an embarrasing, distracting, and overall hateful enterprise that should be avoided, as it poisons everyone. It’s too late for me: I run away from it 10 months out of 12, but the shit is like herpes.

  68. Satsuma

    Shannon, I’m doing the “I told you so” dance right this minute.

    Women are going to regret the outcome of this election. I predict a McCain victory. The whole point was to underplay racism and overplay sexism..the usual system, and it worked like a charm. Now they are not so secretly coming out of the racist closet, and that’s why Obama’s lead has so mysteriously disappeared in recent opinion polls.

    Obama, too connected to churches in general, too evangelical in his language that it makes me sick… and what do you expect…kow towing to the woman hating reverends yet again. You’d think feminists would run from any candidate who has such close associations with even liberal yelling, clapping leader worshipping churches. But hey, guess this next generation has to learn the hard way.

    Self-respecting blamers would horrified if we had a democratic candidate who attended a white yelling and screaming church, atheists would be horrified at all this talk about “faith based” funding with our tax dollars. The truth is, we’ve seen what damange people who use god out in the public sphere do, and why Obama and the black church get this kind of a free ride is just beyond me.

    Remember separation of church and state? Well that’s out the window with an Obama presidency. Hillary had the decency to keep her faith private, until she was forced to talk about god by the partriarchal campaigns, but it wasn’t her nature. This quiet dignity and reluctance to pander to religion and god in public life gave her that subtle mixture of intelligence that I so miss.

    I know, I should keep whining about this, but I am still heart broken over the loss of her, and the realization that women on feminist blogs were so awful to her.

    Why do women trust men in office? Why do they?!

  69. jami

    satsuma, i am disappointed that we don’t get a female president this time, too. i heard hillary’s last victory speech on npr (south carolina, was it?). the cheering in the background was in women’s voices. i got a little teary and wished i could share that enthusiasm. but if we want to talk trust and voting records, hillary’s vote for the iran=terrorists-so-do-what-you-will-dick-cheney amendment was a huge betrayal to me.

    though obama’s recent behavior has also let me down, the disappointments have been less significant than another vote for the bush administration to do whatever it wants in the middle east.

    i would be interested in the realization of the threat made by another commenter of revealing obama’s voting record against republican attempts to criminalize women’s health care. a quick googling shows that naral rated obama 100% in 2005, 2006, and 2007. what do you know that naral doesn’t? based on his voting record, obama’s position is mine: abortion should be safe, legal, and accessible (though pregnancy prevention is better — not just on moral grounds, but physically). if a person will suffer health risks by continuing a pregnancy, she should be able to get an abortion *at any time*.

    obama has consistently voted against the idiotic bills that would throw such people and their doctors in prison. of course, abortion is not just for kicks at eight months. i don’t think any people ever actually do that, so i think this is an issue trumped up by folks like karl rove to divide people on lines that don’t exist. these stupid bills shouldn’t exist, because abortion-for-fun doesn’t exist, but when these stupid republican bills come up for votes, obama does not support them.

  70. soopermouse

    “hillary’s vote for the iran=terrorists-so-do-what-you-will-dick-cheney amendment was a huge betrayal to me. ”

    Are you aware of the fact that Obama, earlier in 2007 proposed and co sponsored the Counter Proliferation Act of 2007 which said that exact same thing?

    What you are doing right now is making excuses for yourself because you cannot admit that you were wrong. Your mistake will cost you and other women dearly, and you don’t even have the decency to acknowledg your mistake. And btw- NARAL Illinois stated that Obama dodnt work with them on those present votes.

  71. Satsuma

    jami, I get your basic points.

    I don’t obsess on what candidates did or did not do about wars. Obama was not a New York Senator, and Hillary would no longer be in office if she voted against the war back then.

    Lyndon Johnson, Franlkin Roosevelt, Nixon and others all promised to stay out of wars or to get us out of an existing war. How soon women forget this fact.

    A Hillary presidency would have been a huge boost to women everywhere, as far as claiming the power of the highest office, symbolically and in every other way. If 92% of blacks can support Obama, and even the conservative black commentators are hemming and hawing and agonizing, because these black men know that breaking that barrier is key.

    Women don’t really get this, and set impossibly high standards for other women to get to the presidency. No woman is ever going to get elected this way, and that’s the point I am making.

    Bottom line, I don’t believe men represent me. Obama PAYS his female employees less than McCain does. This should be talked about more! Obama calls women “honey” and brushes them off when he thinks the cameras aren’t running.

    If you believe any presidential candidate is a true peace candidate, guess again. History will prove you wrong just with the 20th century examples I gave above.

    Obama is going to say anything now to get elected. The point is as I feminist, I don’t trust him, and I feel unmoved by his slick speeches and Kennedy speechwriter phrases. I don’t get his appeal at all really, or how someone that green on foreign policy should have the confidense of Americans at all.

    I believe women’s inability to get behind a liberal feminist woman candidate is about their fear of not being good enough themselves. It is the fear of responsibility for finally running the show, and when women get close to power, they sometimes balk… maybe liberal women.

    Young women, having perhaps missed the real hatred of men in the big battles over feminist ideas in the late 60s, 70s and early 80s I think are too trusting of men. Too willing to throw away an opportunity, that would open all the jobs presidents appoint, and all the supreme court justices out there.

    Hillary’s power would have been to win the election, and really go for it in the first term, not caring at all whether she was reelected or not. The presidency is a drug they all get quickly addicted to, however.

    To me it is simple: I support highly intelligent liberal to left women for office, period end of it. I don’t obsess about one or two votes, I look for the big picture and the long term. We will never have a viable woman candidate in office at this level for a generation or more now. Think Ferraro and how long ago that was!

    I am sad that so many young women are just believing the men, supporting the men, and going along with a porn woman objectifying society now. Sad really.

    Men don’t represent me ever. I am tired with their control over the vast majority of elected offices, tired of their control of corporations, tired of their blabby faces on CNN etc. I’m just tired of male rule in general. Men can’t and won’t ever change. It is up to women to demand the change we deserve, and maybe this won’t happen either in my lifetime, but at least I can put it out there.

    McCain or Obama… doesn’t really matter to me now.

  72. jami

    i’m four beers down, so excuse me for not being at my most diplomatic or grammatical, but i’ve not had a man purporting to be a feminist tell me that “women don’t really get” anything.

  73. justanitwit

    goblinbee
    Jul 9th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
    Brown is a color. Everyone’s shit is brown. A brown-noser does not refer to someone’s race.

    my shit is sometimes yellow or green in color sumtimes evin blue if i eat enuff pop tarts….

  74. Jeremy Duley

    I completely agree and support what has been said by the writer of this article. I would elaborate and say more… but I feel everything that needs to be said has been.

    Mental health is a huge issue when it comes to the health. What the hell good is a healthy body if it doesn’t have a healthy mind controlling it?

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