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	<title>Comments on: Spinster aunt likes deer</title>
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		<title>By: Kuleana</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-138362</link>
		<dc:creator>Kuleana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-138362</guid>
		<description>Oh, I just wanted to mention that only the first paragraph of my comment was directed to the poster I quoted....The other things (soy and protein) were mentioned by a number of people, and I&#039;m simply too lazy to quote a whole bunch of people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I just wanted to mention that only the first paragraph of my comment was directed to the poster I quoted&#8230;.The other things (soy and protein) were mentioned by a number of people, and I&#8217;m simply too lazy to quote a whole bunch of people.</p>
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		<title>By: Kuleana</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-138360</link>
		<dc:creator>Kuleana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 05:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-138360</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Another voice in support of hunting, that is, by folks who are skilled and careful shooters, many of whom this is their only excuse to enjoy a day in the woods,&lt;/i&gt;

Are you kidding? Since when does one need an &lt;i&gt;excuse&lt;/i&gt; to go hang out in the woods? In most places I&#039;ve been a hunting permit isn&#039;t the only way to be allowed in the woods -- you can go hiking, you can find a nice clearing to read a book, you can have a picnic, if it&#039;s really secluded you can have sex, if there&#039;s a river or lake you can go swimming, you can climb trees, or you can take little rocks and make miniature replicas of Stonehenge (speaking of which, forests also make a great place for pagan rituals!). It&#039;s really sad when we&#039;ve come to a point where we can&#039;t envision enjoying nature without dominating it in some way -- it reminds me of the biblical statement that man has dominion over nature. (Hmmmm, &quot;man&quot;....)

And seriously, even though I can to a point understand subsistence hunting, the bullshit about vegetarianism has to stop. Not all vegetarians eat soy, and if that&#039;s all you&#039;ve got to argue that vegetarianism is bad for the environment, just stop. I don&#039;t remember the last time I ate tofu or drank soy milk, in large part because seitan (mock duck) and actual vegetables and grains make great meals. I also find it hugely offensive when people say that vegetarianism is a cover for eating disorders -- people with eating disorders are unfortunately always going to find some way to cover their disorder by using a legitimate dietary restriction or excuse. If it weren&#039;t vegetarianism, it would be food allergies, or a religious conversion. Blaming vegetarianism is going to do shit-all to end eating disorders -- dismantling patriarchy, on the other end, will get to the root of the matter right quick. 

I also want to throw things every time I hear this craptastic, absolutely untrue protein excuse trotted out -- that myth is itself a product of patriarchy. Beans, nuts and seeds, algae, mock duck and many, many other plant sources all contain protein, and in the U.S. we have a much bigger problem with too much protein in our diets than not enough -- in fact, in developed countries protein deficiencies are almost unheard of. I&#039;ve been vegetarian for 14 years -- over half my life -- and my protein levels are perfect without even being all that careful about what I eat, as are all my other vitamin levels. In reality, &lt;i&gt;everybody&lt;/i&gt; should be careful about what they eat, not just vegetarians, just like everybody should take care of their health, not just so-called overweight people because ANYBODY can be unhealthy, regardless of diet, size, etc. 

But to get back to the protein myth -- it came about because, as far as I can tell, eating meat is equated with manliness, and protein is also equated with manliness. So, voila! Meat magically becomes THE ONLY source of protein, because of course WOMANLY foods like vegetables couldn&#039;t provide such a MANLY nutrient! People who actually know what they&#039;re talking about with regard to vegetarian diets would actually point out that your biggest deficiency risk is actually vitamin B, which has no non-animal source. Luckily, it can be found in veg-friendly vitamins and fortified foods -- but make sure you&#039;re getting the right type! Some types, like those found in spirulina, can actually decrease your vitamin B levels. (Not to say you shouldn&#039;t eat spirulina, just don&#039;t use it as your vitamin B source and up your dosage of other vitamin B sources accordingly.) &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Vegetarian Society&lt;/a&gt; has more info for anybody who&#039;s interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Another voice in support of hunting, that is, by folks who are skilled and careful shooters, many of whom this is their only excuse to enjoy a day in the woods,</i></p>
<p>Are you kidding? Since when does one need an <i>excuse</i> to go hang out in the woods? In most places I&#8217;ve been a hunting permit isn&#8217;t the only way to be allowed in the woods &#8212; you can go hiking, you can find a nice clearing to read a book, you can have a picnic, if it&#8217;s really secluded you can have sex, if there&#8217;s a river or lake you can go swimming, you can climb trees, or you can take little rocks and make miniature replicas of Stonehenge (speaking of which, forests also make a great place for pagan rituals!). It&#8217;s really sad when we&#8217;ve come to a point where we can&#8217;t envision enjoying nature without dominating it in some way &#8212; it reminds me of the biblical statement that man has dominion over nature. (Hmmmm, &#8220;man&#8221;&#8230;.)</p>
<p>And seriously, even though I can to a point understand subsistence hunting, the bullshit about vegetarianism has to stop. Not all vegetarians eat soy, and if that&#8217;s all you&#8217;ve got to argue that vegetarianism is bad for the environment, just stop. I don&#8217;t remember the last time I ate tofu or drank soy milk, in large part because seitan (mock duck) and actual vegetables and grains make great meals. I also find it hugely offensive when people say that vegetarianism is a cover for eating disorders &#8212; people with eating disorders are unfortunately always going to find some way to cover their disorder by using a legitimate dietary restriction or excuse. If it weren&#8217;t vegetarianism, it would be food allergies, or a religious conversion. Blaming vegetarianism is going to do shit-all to end eating disorders &#8212; dismantling patriarchy, on the other end, will get to the root of the matter right quick. </p>
<p>I also want to throw things every time I hear this craptastic, absolutely untrue protein excuse trotted out &#8212; that myth is itself a product of patriarchy. Beans, nuts and seeds, algae, mock duck and many, many other plant sources all contain protein, and in the U.S. we have a much bigger problem with too much protein in our diets than not enough &#8212; in fact, in developed countries protein deficiencies are almost unheard of. I&#8217;ve been vegetarian for 14 years &#8212; over half my life &#8212; and my protein levels are perfect without even being all that careful about what I eat, as are all my other vitamin levels. In reality, <i>everybody</i> should be careful about what they eat, not just vegetarians, just like everybody should take care of their health, not just so-called overweight people because ANYBODY can be unhealthy, regardless of diet, size, etc. </p>
<p>But to get back to the protein myth &#8212; it came about because, as far as I can tell, eating meat is equated with manliness, and protein is also equated with manliness. So, voila! Meat magically becomes THE ONLY source of protein, because of course WOMANLY foods like vegetables couldn&#8217;t provide such a MANLY nutrient! People who actually know what they&#8217;re talking about with regard to vegetarian diets would actually point out that your biggest deficiency risk is actually vitamin B, which has no non-animal source. Luckily, it can be found in veg-friendly vitamins and fortified foods &#8212; but make sure you&#8217;re getting the right type! Some types, like those found in spirulina, can actually decrease your vitamin B levels. (Not to say you shouldn&#8217;t eat spirulina, just don&#8217;t use it as your vitamin B source and up your dosage of other vitamin B sources accordingly.) <a href="http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html" rel="nofollow">The Vegetarian Society</a> has more info for anybody who&#8217;s interested.</p>
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		<title>By: saltyC</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-136372</link>
		<dc:creator>saltyC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-136372</guid>
		<description>Virago, you are right about the Yearling. No one should let a child watch that movie, it has given me shuddering intrusive memories of that final scene my whole life. Horrible, horrible movie. But it wasn&#039;t from the 70&#039;s more like the 40&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Virago, you are right about the Yearling. No one should let a child watch that movie, it has given me shuddering intrusive memories of that final scene my whole life. Horrible, horrible movie. But it wasn&#8217;t from the 70&#8217;s more like the 40&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: rootlesscosmo</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-136111</link>
		<dc:creator>rootlesscosmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 04:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-136111</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Are there kinds and levels of complicity? &lt;/i&gt;

I think so. Example: a year or so ago a woman was raped at a college near here. Two other women intervened, got her out of there, and reported the crime to the authorities. Given that we all live in a rape culture, were those women equally complicit with the rapists, or with the district attorney who decided there wasn&#039;t enough evidence to bring charges? Not as I see things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Are there kinds and levels of complicity? </i></p>
<p>I think so. Example: a year or so ago a woman was raped at a college near here. Two other women intervened, got her out of there, and reported the crime to the authorities. Given that we all live in a rape culture, were those women equally complicit with the rapists, or with the district attorney who decided there wasn&#8217;t enough evidence to bring charges? Not as I see things.</p>
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		<title>By: Flores</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-136093</link>
		<dc:creator>Flores</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-136093</guid>
		<description>While you don&#039;t need meat to be strong, it does contain many important nutrients. In the circumstances of scarcity, I imagine the tradition of giving meat to the men harms the health of many women. Even in rich nations, avoiding flesh can occasionally force you to eat the less healthful option. A balanced vegetarian or vegan diets takes some thought and work. I say it&#039;s fully worth the trouble, but I understand why others choose differently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While you don&#8217;t need meat to be strong, it does contain many important nutrients. In the circumstances of scarcity, I imagine the tradition of giving meat to the men harms the health of many women. Even in rich nations, avoiding flesh can occasionally force you to eat the less healthful option. A balanced vegetarian or vegan diets takes some thought and work. I say it&#8217;s fully worth the trouble, but I understand why others choose differently.</p>
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		<title>By: ElizaN</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-136069</link>
		<dc:creator>ElizaN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-136069</guid>
		<description>Protein doesn&#039;t contain iron, and meat is far from the only source for either of them. As for vegetarianism making people docile, check out the ALF.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Protein doesn&#8217;t contain iron, and meat is far from the only source for either of them. As for vegetarianism making people docile, check out the ALF.</p>
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		<title>By: Amananta</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-136035</link>
		<dc:creator>Amananta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 02:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-136035</guid>
		<description>Well I don&#039;t agree that vegetarianism is &quot;the&quot; radical feminist position.  I could also make a big case (and have) for how vegetarianism has, for a few centuries now, been promoted as the moral, feminine, gentle choice and encouraged more for women than for men BY MEN, as part of a larger worldwide pattern where women are so meat and protein starved as compared to men that it is &quot;normal&quot; in every society, even affluent ones such as the US, for women to be iron poor if not outright anemic.  In the meantime men are supposed to eat those big juicy steaks because, by god, they need more protein than women for uh... something.
Starving people of protein makes them docile and easily manipulated. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s an accident that women have so internalized the ethic of not eating the happy cute widdle animals while men basically laugh at us and go about eating a diet that makes them strong.  I&#039;m sorry, but we ARE animals, omnivorous animals.  
(None of this, of course, means I don&#039;t have serious problems with the meat industry.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I don&#8217;t agree that vegetarianism is &#8220;the&#8221; radical feminist position.  I could also make a big case (and have) for how vegetarianism has, for a few centuries now, been promoted as the moral, feminine, gentle choice and encouraged more for women than for men BY MEN, as part of a larger worldwide pattern where women are so meat and protein starved as compared to men that it is &#8220;normal&#8221; in every society, even affluent ones such as the US, for women to be iron poor if not outright anemic.  In the meantime men are supposed to eat those big juicy steaks because, by god, they need more protein than women for uh&#8230; something.<br />
Starving people of protein makes them docile and easily manipulated. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s an accident that women have so internalized the ethic of not eating the happy cute widdle animals while men basically laugh at us and go about eating a diet that makes them strong.  I&#8217;m sorry, but we ARE animals, omnivorous animals.<br />
(None of this, of course, means I don&#8217;t have serious problems with the meat industry.)</p>
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		<title>By: Aunti Disestablishmentarian</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-135886</link>
		<dc:creator>Aunti Disestablishmentarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-135886</guid>
		<description>Narya: 

Bullseye, as it were.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Narya: </p>
<p>Bullseye, as it were.</p>
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		<title>By: octopod</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-135866</link>
		<dc:creator>octopod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 05:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-135866</guid>
		<description>metamanda raises an excellent point. Wild pigs in Hawaii? Rabbits and housecats in Australia? Goats in the Galapagos? How does this work when it comes to invasive species?

(Assuming, of course, that they aren&#039;t an invasive species that can be educated into being less invasive. I persist in thinking this is possible for humans, at least.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>metamanda raises an excellent point. Wild pigs in Hawaii? Rabbits and housecats in Australia? Goats in the Galapagos? How does this work when it comes to invasive species?</p>
<p>(Assuming, of course, that they aren&#8217;t an invasive species that can be educated into being less invasive. I persist in thinking this is possible for humans, at least.)</p>
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		<title>By: Dilly</title>
		<link>http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-135845</link>
		<dc:creator>Dilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/12/03/spinster-aunt-likes-deer/#comment-135845</guid>
		<description>We certainly can’t blame anyone for resorting to their survival instincts.  If all you can find to eat is meat, you’re probably going to have a hard time talking your starving ass out of tossing that rabbit on the fire.  For the rest of us who are lucky enough to be able to make decisions about our food sources, well, you might give it more consideration.  As regards the conservation argument, I wish an altruistic species higher than us on the food chain would step in and control our population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We certainly can’t blame anyone for resorting to their survival instincts.  If all you can find to eat is meat, you’re probably going to have a hard time talking your starving ass out of tossing that rabbit on the fire.  For the rest of us who are lucky enough to be able to make decisions about our food sources, well, you might give it more consideration.  As regards the conservation argument, I wish an altruistic species higher than us on the food chain would step in and control our population.</p>
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