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Jan 23 2009

No post today

While I flit off on an important farming mission today, here are a few dangling IUD strings for your consideration:

Blamer threatens to share anecdotes

Blamer sevanetta — another of our Aussies — who works in gender equality in government, recently indicated in a comment that she has “anecdotes galore” concerning the astonishing gender-issues ignorance displayed by her supposedly gender-issues-aware colleagues. I invite her, and anyone else who has encountered this disconnect in their own gendery pursuits, to cough up said anecdotes at once.

Submission as a revolutionary calling

It’s called, as reported by AlterNet, The Patriarchy Movement. Like all patriarchy movements, it mixes godbaggery and misogyny, and apparently blames feminism for the “wimpy theology” that has turned modern god-fearin’ women into basket cases “whose hearts are broken over the gender confusion and the spiritual and emotional and relational carnage of our day.” Fans of submission in the weaker sex are calling for a return to “biblical womanhood,” which I guess means spending the day washing their husbands flowing robes on rocks. AlterNet warns us not to laugh too hard at the so-called True Women, because their numbers (6000 Christian submissives convened in Chicago last year to discuss how great things were for women in the 1950s) are too big to ignore, but Jesus in a jetpack!

[Gracias, mountaingrrl]

51 comments

1 ping

  1. zooeyibz

    Christ on a bike…

    “A woman on her knees sways more in this nation than a thousand three-piece suited Wall Street jerks.”

    ‘Cause godbags just love to see a woman on her knees.

  2. kate

    REALLY want to become enraged? Go to Phryngula and watch the Monstrous Women vid
    then make yourself feel better go to GodTube and give ‘em a piece of your mind (probably won’t post it but it made me feel better – SOMEBODY had to read it to delete it).

  3. kate

    REALLY want to be enraged? Go to Pharyngula and watch the Monstrous Women vid. Then go to GodTube and give ‘em hell – won’t get posted but SOMEBODY has to read ‘em to deleted ‘em.

  4. kate

    sorry about the double post – thought the first one didn’t go through – oooops

  5. Citizen Jane

    Oh my goodness, it’s this surrendered wife stuff.

    Why? Why, why, why, why, why? WHY? Whhhhhyyyyyyy?

    Why would anybody willingly do this to themselves? Please, somebody explain to me. It’s painful for me to just think about it.

  6. LisaB

    I think some women (and some men, too) like the illusion of a risk-free life that involves little thought. Just follow the rules, let your husband have all the control and worries, and God will take care of everything in the end. Why rock the boat, why put yourself out there and risk failing or being called a lesbian? Beign submissive will keep you safe and womanly from here to enternity!

  7. Alderson Warm-Fork

    Don’t worry guys, this explicit women-submit-to-your-husbands schtick will never get far. It’s not like someone endorsing such views, like Rick Warren, would ever be invited to inaugurate the president or anything…

  8. dcmk

    I remember very clearly my mother telling me when I was quite young that some people just couldn’t handle the responsibility of making any choices in life, they wanted it done for them. (And she went on to say that’s why people joined the military and the priesthood!)

    I do have a hard time understanding this, though. It seems like a response to abuse: no matter how hard I try, I must be fucking up, because he still hurts me. But if I surrender all control, he can’t blame me for anything, and he’ll have to treat me like a good girl.

    It’s fucking revolting.

  9. Kathleen

    eh, if we are supposed to take the Yay Patriarchy Club seriously because 6000 of them made a conference then Comic-Con (125,000 attendees) is, obvy, setting the agenda for the universe.

    The line about “we must take them seriously” is just tacked on to represent the general conventional wisdom about how we mustn’t laugh and point too much at Patriarchy Partisans because… we mustn’t!

  10. denelian

    i will ignore the obvious irony of all the non-wifely work these women are doing.

    i want to address this : “To the age-old question of “who is God,” Kassian complained, feminism answers, it’s up to you. And this, to Kassian, is a blasphemous statement of authority in and of itself, and even a sign of self-worship. “According to feminism, women decide, and ultimately, that means that they themselves are God.”

    i am pagan, and of a flavor that DOES in fact believe that i (and every other person on the planet) is themselves God.

    just sayin’ :D

  11. lawbitch

    Yea, I’m a God! I’m off to create the “Law Bitch Church of the Blue Door” and apply for tax exempt status.

  12. thebewilderness

    It is amazing how many ‘Christian’ cults have sprung up who know nothing of Deborah, the judge, or Jael, the not so submissive.

  13. Jodie

    Sometimes I wonder if the people involved in stuff like this are braindead or forced into it somehow. How could any thinking person believe this stuff?

  14. rootlesscosmo

    I think LisaB has the explanation, as did Andrea Dworkin in Right Wing Women. When women judge that trusting the patriarchal godbags is safer for them and their kids than the alternatives, that’s what some of them will choose. Their information may be incomplete, their judgment may be disputable, but they’re probably not insane or irrational.

  15. Jonathan

    I don’t understand how Submissive Camp is suppose to reduce confusion in a woman’s life. Even if you do worship hubby as the Divine Master, what confusion is solved when your deity bolts on you and the kids in a couple years for a younger submissive?

  16. yttik

    I remember my grandmother lamenting the fact that the cruelest joke of the patriarchy was that women were fragile flowers to be cared for and protected. He life had taught her the exact opposite, that men were actually more trouble than they were worth. She not only had to work to feed children, she had to work take care of a man that was “a fragile and delicate flower” due to his alcoholism and mental problems. To this day it is still often men that can afford the luxury of having an emotional breakdown, of having disabling back problems, of deciding fatherhood is just too much trouble. To this day, women pick up the slack.

    I in no way support the the Patriarchy Movement, it’s more like staring at them in horror like you would a train wreck. But I can understand why some women might be attracted to this rather sad and desperate idea. Women get tired of doing all the work, of being the ones left holding everything together. Since my grandmother’s time we’ve just moved our culture from one side of the patriarchy to another. We now seem to believe that women should earn the wages, pack the groceries, raise the children, and men shouldn’t even have to hold the doors open for them anymore, since women now have “equal rights” and all.

  17. Citizen Jane

    I think you folks have the explanation. Patriarchy creates situations in which women are dependent on it, and some women remain in that dependence rather than fight the system that creates it. They do this either by choice (because it’s easier and it’s a trade-off they can live with) or because the consequences for fighting are too great.

    This reminds me of one of the arguments from patriarchy-invested females which boggles my mind. I often hear these “surrendered wives” and “ladies against feminism” talking about how great gender roles are because they can have a man who protects them. It always made my head spin. If we didn’t live in a patriarchal society, there wouldn’t be a constant threat of violence against women and there would be no need to latch onto a man to protect you!

    But I still can’t understand, not really. I would be dead inside if I bartered away my freedom like that in order to get a few short-term gains. I feel sick just thinking about it. I know some of these women don’t have the class privilege or other kinds of privileges necessary to make fighting a safe and reasonable option. But plenty of them DO have that privilege and yet choose not to use it.

  18. Citizen Jane

    Pardon me if I may say one more thing since I got ninja posted.

    @Jonathon, don’t you know that the only reason a man leaves his wife and kids is because she wasn’t sufficiently submissive and/or fuckable?

  19. AdmirerofEmily

    My sister wrote a letter to her then pastor, outlining some of the godly dominating acts of her husband. This included holding a pan of boiling spaghetti over her head, presumably because she’d failed to submit adequately.

    For whatever reason, the pastor showed to letter to a few others (might have been a ‘how can we help our brother and sister’ to a tiny group of confidantes, or my sister might have written an open letter, didn’t seem to be an issue the way my mum told it, though my mum doesn’t always get the full awfulness of this kind of stuff).

    Whereupon one of the women turned to my sister and said ‘sister, maybe you need to look at it from your husband’s point of view.’

  20. thebewilderness

    “Whereupon one of the women turned to my sister and said ’sister, maybe you need to look at it from your husband’s point of view.’”

    Excellent point, considering that her husbands point of view was, “Submit, or die!” When we finally recognize that point of view to underlay all approved patriarchy positions, revolution will happen.

  21. Orange

    Pot of boiling water? He’s a softie. If he really meant anything bad, he’d have a pot of acid like the Taliban’s freelance enforcers.

  22. Hedgepig

    I think LisaB and rootlesscosmo are right about the appeal of this. Clear-cut gender roles would certainly eliminate the daily paradox of life as a het woman with feminist consciousness. How many of us here believe completely in equality with our male life-partners but end up doing all the housework, all the childcare, while also earning money for the family and probably mowing the lawn as well? Living with cognitive dissonance is very distrubing. I’m certainly disturbed by the disparity between my beliefs and my actions.
    Of course, there’s a better alternative than this counter-feminist revolution crap. It’s called the Twistolution!

  23. another voice

    Even when hubby makes dinner and supports my career and does emotional work etc (my nigel…), the larger culture makes us engage in behaviors (smiling, wearing skirts or heels or makeup) we would not otherwise. Even if we escape all of it, we still have to watch the disparity all day, every day. It hurts one’s head after a while. It might be easier for some people to think that we really deserve the shit the culture serves us, cuz we’re gonna get it either way.

  24. Rebekka

    “Even when hubby makes dinner and supports my career and does emotional work etc (my nigel…), the larger culture makes us engage in behaviors (smiling, wearing skirts or heels or makeup) we would not otherwise.”

    I disagree. If it wasn’t for the patriarchy, everyone would wear skirts. They’re far more comfortable than pants. That’s why the Scots wear kilts.

  25. not a dudetiful wife

    It’s hard to be a feminist and defend the choice of a another woman when she choses to sell out and infantize herself. Make herself a faithful pet, essentially.

    Where I live, I see women who should know better get into the whole woman as a rib mentality. As I see it, it’s like a kind of witchcraft, and not the fun wiccan kind. They believe that if they submit as a one-down to their husbands, their family and America will be under the protection of God. It’s the same reason they are anti-homosexual. It’s some sort of ritual hating to please their God. The protective hand of God will be over them if they behave and be good little girls. Just like Daddy would.

    And in the end, it’s magical thinking like a girl. If they follow these rules, their grades will predictably be A, God will be pleased and protect them, and most of all, nothing will be their fault. Like good little girls. Women confronted with real life for the first time find that ritual comforting. Unlike school, in adult life, particularly on the job, you don’t predictably get A’s for following the rules. It’s easier to quit your job, submit to your husband (really, that’s just one thing to remember), and become full-time homemaker. Everything’s clear. You work for your husband and you work for your kids. You can’t be a career loser then, and it is NOT confusing. And in these times of economic problems, some religious nut jobs cling to this more, because, surely, if the wife were obedient, her family would not be suffering financially. God will provide…if you behave.

    And if your husband’s a total dick, then you can grumble and grit your teeth and imagine that Big Daddy God will get him back when he gets Home. The least you protest, the higher your reward will be. But it is convenient. You don’t have to really try in the sense of taking responsibility for negotiating for what you want. You don’t have to have career ambitions or life ambitions that fail – you don’t have them, you are a Christian wife and mother. You don’t have to confront. And you aren’t responsible – he is (but you get the long and suffering part). It is the ultimate in passive aggressive; your husband may drive the family into the ditch, but Big Daddy will still judge you as a good little girl. There is nothing more that you could do. Not as if you were an equal partner and could in any way be an adult in your life – or chose or ask for something or shape your life in a way that has no guarantees – people like that guarantee plan of the conservative christianity, it’s like the ultimate diet book – they can’t stop buying or reading it even though hardly anyone’s successful.

    But the fantasy of not having to bear the burden of leadership and decisions and failure, “here can be only one leader in a house!” How many times have we heard that in their defense of the surrendered wife? How about “working it out” like adults? Well, if you are a good “girl”, the bestest ever, by definition you are sweet and obedient, but not an adult that can exercise will or leadership or risk.

  26. Moz

    Surely scots men are part of the patrriarchy? I mean, isn’t that the point of it? If you start saying that only some men are in the club then it loses a lot of its rhetorical force.

    I wear a sundress or skirt because people tend to call the cops if I don’t. And in hot weather the less I wear the better. So a skirt or flimsy frock is ideal… so cool.

    (of course, a scots version would have a rolled rrr, as above :)

  27. Nolabelfits

    What really chaps my ass is that when my husband does ANYTHING that is outside his gender role, he is applauded and confirmed and told what a nice guy he is and how lucky I am. YET…I do all kinds of gender defying feats like earning as much as he does, handling all the finances, doing all the yardwork, taking care of all the kid issues, etc. but I am NEVER given so much as an ounce of recognition for any of it. He changes a diaper and he is GOD, I do fucking everyting else and I am just….a wife. Which is a four letter word, I must point out, in case nobody’s mentioned it before here on IBTP>

  28. KMTBERRY

    I add my voice to the chorus of “go to Pharyngula and see the Hideous Monstrosity that is the Human Female” !!

    because

    It’s really sumpthin

  29. Hedgepig

    Nolabelfits: have you read Wifework, by Susan Maushart? Will probably speak directly to your experiences! An entertaining, insightful read for anyone.

  30. truffula

    anecdote: My department at work made an important new hire last year. After an application review process, we had culled the set to 5 we really liked. Then, the two leaders of the process decided 5 was too many and axed the one woman on the list. Four was a more reasonable number, they said.

    I of course cried “foul” (and also “if we do this we are breaking the law”). Discussion, such as it was, took place primarily in email because it was the end of summer and people were in and out of the office. I spent hours of my life drafting careful emails explaining the purpose and use of our affirmative action hiring guidelines. The affirmative action training provided by our employer had been mostly about not leaving a paper trail.

    In the course of all this, I had a more in-depth dialog with my department boss. He assured me that he doesn’t “think that way about women.” Well dude, 1) it’s not about you, it’s about the patriarchy and 2) you might want to examine yourself more critically.

    Because I wouldn’t let it go, a selection committee meeting was convened. When evaluated solely on the merits of the candidates, we decided to interview three of those five and, wonder of wonders, one of them was the woman. Another dude on the selection committee then proceeded to call her “the affirmative action candidate.”

    A few weeks later, when I was regaling some folks with the story of some experience or other dealing with a sexist prick in a position of authority, another coworker told me, quite earnestly, that he just “doesn’t see sexism.” It’s just “not part of his world view,” he asserted. This is the same dude who wondered if the relatively young female candidate would be able or interested to learn how to operate some technical equipment. I asked if he thought she had some kind of gender-dependent congenital technical disability because I was pretty sure nobody else around the table came out of the womb knowing how to operate that equipment. The boss quickly moved the discussion to a new topic.

    I live in a city and work in an industry generally regarded to be “progressive” or “liberal.” There is a big difference between theoretical and applied progressivism. I will spend a lifetime relearning this, in lessons taught by dudes who think the world of themselves for their very fine progressive values.

    IBTP

  31. SuperbWoman

    Wifework is a great read, I recommend it as well.

  32. Vinaigrette Girl

    Simone de Beauvoir’s The Second Sex is coming out in a new (better) translation very soon. I would say she re-started the discussion of the role housework plays in creating submissiveness in the female experience, from the POV of someone who actually did the neceesary rather than someone (say, V S-W) who could pay somebody else to do it. Pretty much all we end up saying stiull gets back to her. It’s from 1949 but it’s still very fresh and very modern. Alas.

    I was one of sveeral people, both male and female, one a “hate list” on the office wall at Blackwell Science, 8 years ago. I was hassled by two colleagues for being complaining to management about the sexyblondes on the screen-saver, and for using flexible hours to deliver my kid to day care andt huis coming to work 20 minutes after other people (and staying late afterwards, that’s flexi for you). My male bosses did nothing about this, or about the continuing audible comments about me. The day before we started the formal complaint process I was offered a job elsewhere; my greatest regret is that I took the advice of a female executive there and dropped the process because it would affect my future career and ID me as a troublemaker.

  33. virago

    Quote from article:

    “Finally, in a reference to the importance of woman-to-woman mentoring within the conservative church, they affirmed that “mature Christian women” are obliged to disciple the next generation of Christian wives, training them in matters of submission and headship, in order to provide a legacy of “fruitful femininity.””

    Well, if that isn’t an oxymoron. These women think living like a child incapable of making their own decisions without the permission of their husband is a “mature christian woman”? And they want to teach other women to do the same? This would be laughable if it wasn’t so tragic that these women actually believe this stuff. My ex-sister-in-law bought into this crap, but her husband just didn’t buy into it. She was always torturing the poor guy because he “wasn’t the spiritual leader he was suppose to be”. At the same time, she would berate herself for “not being as submissive as she should because she was always telling him what to do.” For example; she would yell at him when he wasn’t interested in going to church or reading the Bible. If she asked him what kind of decisions he wanted to make, she would get upset when he told her “to do what she thinks is best”. She even went so far as to buy him a book by “The Promise Keepers” so that he could be more like them. Don’t get me wrong, this woman was all into the surrendered wife lifestyle. She was a stay-at-home wife, and she homeschooled her kids because she thought public school was teaching them to be gay. She wouldn’t even go to work temporarily when they were facing hard economic times. However, she was lucky to have her husband because he was an excellent provider, did housework and childcare on a regular basis without being asked, didn’t smoke, drink, or run around and she had plenty of free time to hang out with her friends and go to Bible meetings. He even encouraged her to go back to school to become a pastor because of her interest in religion (she refused because a “surrendered wife” didn’t do that.)” If only her brother (my ex-husband) would’ve been half as nice, I would still be married. He let her make most of the decisions concerning the children, and he trusted her to make most of the financial decisions for money that he made. The guy just wanted to be left alone instead of being pushed into a mold that he told her he didn’t fit into. In general, I think he was happy to be married to her, but he did tell her to shut up and leave him alone about “those damn promise keepers”. In meantime, I think she is making her life a lving hell trying to be this stupid stepford wife when she doesn’t even have a stepford husband.

  34. AdmirerofEmily

    Oh, and the postscript to the story of the husband holding pan of boiling water over the unsubmissive wife. She divorced him.

  35. not a dudetiful wife

    virago – When people seek to lift themselves to freedom that their family doesn’t experience, it’s the “crabs in a bucket” syndrome, where the other crabs will pull down a another crab the seeks to get out. You see this in some families where none have a college education and few graduated from high school. They mock the one who seeks education. The sickest thing in these sorts of patriarchical surrendered wife piece of crap situations is that they throw God and salvation and the after life on it, telling women this deal where they have to be servants to men has their very souls on the line. Somehow, I think if there is judgment in the afterlife, that these people equating surrendered womenhood to salvation are made surrendered wives to a monster.

    What it gets to is that God is a man. To say God could be a woman is damnation, just as the dark tribes of non-anglo countries were once considered not evolved and certainly NOT god’s chosen ones. Women are just not God material. And God…he just isn’t that into you due to your weakness and lesser material (except to provide for men).

    Funny, these days, you can go into most conservative christian churches and ask, could God be a black man, a chinese man, a latino? And these days, most would say, sure, God is all those. Things have changed somewhat and they have sort of gotten beyond needing for God to be a white old guy, at least when directly asked in polite public company. But ask, could God be a woman? And it is sacrilege. Funny how that works. I have to ask rudely. So…God’s a man…ok…does he have a penis and balls? If so, what in the world for if there is no female god? Would he need a penis? If he does not have a penis, what makes him a man? Can there be a man with no reproductive path or ….gender? Hmmmmm…. Ask that in sunday school this week, it will be fun.

    But for surrendered wives allow the girls in their community a freedom they never had means they were deeply wrong and wasted their long and suffering efforts. It also means they don’t care about their souls, since surely, a daughter who has leadership, respect, and her own name in a marriage is damned. The great thing is, if this free daughter ever has any conflict or trouble in her marriage or life or pregnancies, it can be blamed on her being uppity and not pleasing God by knowing what feminity is. Because we all know, surrendered women are under divine protection. Sorta like witchcraft, really. quake and scrape in front of your God or the spirit will be flaming angry like a Rick Warren cut off from the Cracker Barrel buffet. He is kind of a dick that way.

    To explain why women perpetuate this, if you care for your daughters you don’t want God to be mad at them, do you? That’s one explanation. Another and bigger one is fear. They fear that barring the ties the church binds, they would be alone and poor. Men are their retirement and financial plan. They fear competing in the job market and all it’s attendant sexism. I’ve seen this in some of my friends who quit working to be stay at home moms, and a couple increasingly got into the cult of surrended woman to reinforce their choice with that “moral” seal so they never have to question. If you question as a friend their depression, their quit ambitions, their talents, or whatever, you go against what God intended for families. It’s robotic.

    And frankly, dear readers, aren’t we as feminists tired of hearing these surrendered wives say in response to any challenge to their nonfeminist lives, “when I look at my kids, I wouldn’t trade them for the world.” Um…who’s trading kids in? Who’s asking them for their kids? Can people do that? Is there a feminist eBay store where feminists trade in conservative children as currency? So…let me get this straight, if you as a surrendered wife become a woman with full rights of license as a regular conservative christian man, you have to trade your kids? Literally, I think that is a subtext these religions put on feminism – sorta like gay people should not be allowed to have families – you can either be a surrendered woman under the protective hand of God or…you can be a lonely, family-less, going-to-hell jezebel, where everything that goes wrong in your life is blamed god trying to drive you away from your uppity, nonbending nature to a Man, as nature intended. But, hey, it’s not like they don’t give you a choice.

    Straight to crazy land, but they like staying at home and managing their own time and not having layoffs and job reviews and competing with men. It can suck. Being a stay at home mom and wife, you don’t face having your work thrown in you face and work that is meaningless and dissatisfying because you’re in the pink ghetto or under the glass ceiling. At home during the day, you are bigger than everyone else, if you are surrounded with children. You don’t get written up or annual reviews where credit is given to someone else. You don’t get laid off from being a mom. You don’t have to get in the game when it comes to feminist battles, which aren’t easy.

  36. niki

    Just for the record, I hate wearing skirts and it’s got nothing to do with the patriarchy and everything to do with the limited mobility and lack of pockets.

  37. jezebella

    Hey, Not a Dutiful Wife, lay off the fat jokes, eh?

    And Niki, they make skirts with pockets that don’t limit mobility.

  38. Twisty

    “If it wasn’t for the patriarchy, everyone would wear skirts. They’re far more comfortable than pants. That’s why the Scots wear kilts.”

    Are you familiar with those cults of skirt-wearin’ dudes? They’re total pigs. But they have invented skirts with pockets into which a case of beer can be inserted.

    There are some activities that would be hindered by skirt-wearin. I would not suggest riding a horse in a skirt. Or walking around the Texas Hill Country, where every plant is made of leg-rippin needles and razors.

    The skirt vs pants “debate”: one never tires of its many nuances.

  39. Kwailin

    I am chiming in to confirm what others have noted about this being all about having a set of rules to follow, making life simpler. However, I can’t help thinking there is something more at the base of it, at least for some women these ‘surrendered wife’ movements. I’ve got chicken-and-egg queries running through my mind about the surrendering and the adherence to strict religious beliefs. Not a dudetiful wife alluded to some of this in their first post, with the idea of ritual magic. But there’s a real fear-based motivation there, too: if you don’t follow the rules, you are going to HELL. Your pastor will tell you what the rules are, Sunday morning, evening, and Weds. evenings, too. Saturdays, too, if you’re a REALLY good Christian. I know all this from childhood experiences with churches practicing and preaching similar doctrines, and through recent experiences with a dear friend of my youth that have left me very troubled. Anything that goes against the teachings of her church is “moral relativism” and to be avoided and/or publicly beaten down. It seems like a fearful and hateful way to live, and there’s not much I can talk with her about anymore without getting into big arguments. She’s in a relatively privileged position in society–though not rich by any means–so it’s definitely not just a way of trying to get along in society for my friend or the many ultra-religious women like her. I offer this in equal parts rumination and venting.

    (Longtime lurker, occasional poster of yore, under a different name.)

  40. rubysecret

    I could be mistaken, but I think this counts as a post.

  41. thebewilderness

    There is something to be gained from choosing to believe that you are one of the chosen who, if you do the obedience thing exactly right, you will get all the pie in the sky bye and bye when you die.

  42. Pinko Punko

    Skirts seem tick friendly to me, but I have a deranged fear of ticks

  43. Joolya

    Are these “Taken in Hand” type women really just subs who can’t admit that? Seriously.

  44. Compcat

    Don’t forget, they also get social status within their church group for “suffering”. Though only if you are lucky enough to get a husband who is only a little emotionally abusive, or come out of your depression with “stronger” faith, well, instant social boost for you.

    If you are unlucky enough to get the husband with the pot of boiling water, you get to become bonding gossip for the in crowd. Without all of these lovely dysfunctional relationships to gossip about, fewer of these people would actually attend church.

    It’s also freeing for people to believe that bad things only happen in the world because there are evil, or at least bad people (who aren’t them). Instead of the truth, which is that we are all monkeys, capable of doing really horrible things. Heck, around 80 percent of us will torture if told to by an authority figure. And nature doesn’t really give a damn how holy you are, though it may have a response to your carbon output.

  45. Twisty

    “nature doesn’t really give a damn how holy you are, though it may have a response to your carbon output.”

    Amen, sister.

  46. sevanetta

    Oh geez I’ve been called up! I’m flattered that you’re interested, Twisty. OK anecdotes are coming. Soon.

  47. The Amazing Kim

    Living with cognitive dissonance is very distrubing. I’m certainly disturbed by the disparity between my beliefs and my actions.

    Well, we all live within a capitalist system, which is inherently oppressive, and as a function of that oppression we all need to do things that aren’t always PC to get by.

    Until we can all buy our own ranches in the wilderness, concessions to the patriarchy are inevitable. She wears heels, you do housework, I don’t eat cake for breakfast every day to save up Conventionally Attractiveness points (I’m hoping to save up enough to offset the personality – then I will be unstoppable.)

    The most important thing is not to fool yourself into thinking you’re doing it all for your empowerful, fun self.

    Just out of curiosity, how many kangaroo-harassers do we have here? There seems to be quite a few of us.

  48. Hedgepig

    The Amazing Kim: By kangaroo-harassers I assume you mean Australians, so count me in. Today being Australia Day (the day we all say yay because a ship-load of sad British bastards landed to start killing all the natives off with cholera)there has been a veritable cavalcade of old cars with Australian flags on ‘em going past my place. One of them had “Born in the USA” blaring as it chuffed along. I shared a larf with my Bruce over that one. (“my Bruce”, rather than “my Nigel”, because it’s Australia Day. Also, his name’s Bruce).

  49. orlando

    Australia day is a good time to reflect on the way this country so often takes with one hand but gives with the other. Our nominal head of state is called the “Governor General”, who is (get this) the representative of the British Queen in Australia. Archaic and imperialist? Why yes. But our current one is a kick-arse feminist.

    Also time to reflect that it’s probably kind of healthy that most people have trouble remembering the date.

    Also props to Hedgepig for creating the opportuntiy to use the phrase “veritable cavalcade”.

  50. Twisty

    “Until we can all buy our own ranches in the wilderness, concessions to the patriarchy are inevitable.”

    As the owner of a ranchette in the wilderness, I can tell you that it doesn’t really mitigate the necessity of concessions to the patriarchy. You know what would, though?

    FEMINIST REVOLT!

  51. virago

    “Straight to crazy land, but they like staying at home and managing their own time and not having layoffs and job reviews and competing with men. It can suck. Being a stay at home mom and wife, you don’t face having your work thrown in you face and work that is meaningless and dissatisfying because you’re in the pink ghetto or under the glass ceiling. At home during the day, you are bigger than everyone else, if you are surrounded with children. You don’t get written up or annual reviews where credit is given to someone else. You don’t get laid off from being a mom. You don’t have to get in the game when it comes to feminist battles, which aren’t easy.”

    I have to disagree with you here because there is a big difference between being a stay at home mom/wife and being a surrendered wife. A surrendered wife may also be a stay at home mom/wife, but she buys into a theology that puts her second to her husband in authority. She may not have to face job reviews, layoffs, or annual reviews from an outside employer. Instead, the surrendered wife has to raise her children, keep her house clean, and act submissive the way her husband wants her to, and HE gets all the credit. The surrendered wife may not get laid off from being a mom, but she doesn’t get a lot of breaks either. And if she does her work well, she gets her husband’s approval and heaven’s rewards. If she screws up, she’s a bad wife and mother and hellfire awaits. OTOH, being a SAHM doesn’t automatically make a woman believe that she is inferior to her husband, or that she can’t be in an egalitarian relationship with her husband. Unfortuantely, my sister-in-law doesn’t recognize that the reason she gets a lot of free time, or gets to make decisions concerning kids and their financial situation as a SAHM and wife is because she has a supportive husband who does his share of the housework/childcare without holding his role as breadwinner over her head as some kind of lord of the manor. Ironically, she wants to force him into this role because of some stupid religious theology. Her life as a SAHM and wife won’t be as pleasant than. And I know plenty of SAHM/wives who are very active feminists.

  1. Submission as a revolutionary calling? « Lady Lydia’s Blog

    [...] as a revolutionary calling? Jump to Comments I Blame the Patriarchy tells us what is wrong with women thinking submission is the pathway to heaven. She says: [...]

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