«

»

May 15 2009

What has recognizing your male privilege done for you lately?

Some dudes read heartwarming nature crap blogs. I have no idea why, but read them they do. Sometimes one of these dudes will send an email thanking me for educating him in the mysterious ways of heartwarming nature crappists. And I’ll be all like, dude. Shucks. Gosh. That’s really heartwarming. Let me bear your children.

By the way, because I am King of the World and command vast armies, I am changing the name of our ism from “feminism” to “heartwarming nature crapism,” effective immediately. Remember when I invented that great non-gendered word for “human”: tacqueau? I don’t need to tell you how successful that gambit was in the grand struggle for women’s liberation from male oppression.

But I digress.

Anyway, sometimes a dude will skip the whole “Through your infinite wisdom you have single-auntedly saved my relationship with my previously inscrutable feminist girlfriend, and here’s a detailed description of our great new sex life” thing. Sometimes he’ll just link straight to the set of instructions he wrote on how a dude should present himself when commenting on a feminist heartwarming nature crap blog. This is what Comrade PhysioProf did while guest-blogging at Isis the Scientist.

“You have just visited a feminist blog, have read a post and/or some other comments, and your d00dly opining d00d brain lobe is pulsating like a motherfucker with all sorts of extremely important d00dly things to share with the laydeez. Will you get your sorry d00d ass handed to you on a fucking platter? Or will you be a tolerated visitor? Comrade PhysioProf is here to share his tips with you on avoiding d00d ass platter handitude!”

It really clogs the Twisty lobes to consider that there are maybe six guys on the whole internet who don’t need need to be told, among about 894 other obvious things, that

a) the entirety of feminism is not invalidated by the fact of that they personally love their mom, and
b) freely expressing their fancy-free male privilege on heartwarming nature crap blogs is experienced by the heartwarming nature crappists as aggression.

While it is always hi-larious to read what expert dudely readers of heartwarming nature crap blogs have to tell their less-enlightened brethren, it’s also maddening and, if you like, ironical, since such a post can only be written from the patronizing position of male privilege. It’s a kind of double-privilege, too: “Unlike you, Grasshoppah, the feminists have accepted me, for I have been to their savage death island and live to tell the tale.”

These guys are veteran ethnographers doing a field study, warning the new grad students: “The natives have curious, unpredictable ways. Approach them with caution or they will prong you sure as shit with curare-dipped spears. Oh, and we’re meeting for beers later at Chip’s tent.”

Hardy har, because implicit in these man-to-man, how-to-walk-on-eggshells-around-a-feminist tracts is an ingrained sense of the inconsequential status of women in the feminist heartwarming nature crappism blog community. It’s comical somehow, that feminist women — women who are widely considered to be the hairy minority, the kill-joy joke-butts of the internet whose blogs are often described by dudes as “lame” or “parodies” — are so aggressively protective of their trivial little sectarian colonies on the web that men need special training and travel visas to avoid blogular deportation.

But on the other hand, it’s pretty danged heartwarming when a dude finally concedes that male privilege exists. Whenever this happens, an asshole gets his wings. Take this guy, from the comments on PhysioProf’s post:

I’m well aware of the privilege inherent in [being a middle class white male], not that it seems to have done me personally much good I do realize that it exists and I benefit from it in non-trivial ways.

Wow. He grasps that he benefits from male privilege yet simultaneously expresses his belief that he personally — rather than, say, persons oppressed by his privilege — should be benefiting from his realization. Now that’s privilege!

Not to be outdone is this heartwarming guy, who sums up the problem of dudes and Internet feminism nicely:

[PhysioProf's] post is pretty much why I stopped giving a damn about the whole feminism issue. It’s not that I don’t have anything to say, or don’t wish to help — it’s just not worth the trouble.

He can’t be bothered with this particular humanitarian crisis; those damned spear-chucking natives just get so upset about every little thing. I mean, he’d like to help, but, like, he was supposed to be at Chip’s tent an hour ago.

Nevertheless, I accept that some dudes who end up here may wish to deport themselves according to basic human standards with which they may have been heretofore unacquainted, so I’ve added PhysioProf’s primer to the half-assed Dear God! What about the men! page; it is written in their mother tongue.

80 comments

2 pings

  1. Jezebella

    Be advised: the comment thread will give any radfem a migraine within 20 posts, if not a dozen.

  2. Isis the Scientist

    PhysioProf is a talented guy and a great friend. I am thrilled that he came buy to guestblog.

  3. BadKitty

    True story:

    Setting: School board meeting.

    Cast: Local school board, a reporter for the local newspaper, a bunch of middle aged, upper middle class white dudes who don’t want to pay property taxes.

    Upon being informed that the levy had been approved and property taxes wouild be adjusted accordingly, one of the middle aged white dudes stands up, looks around and says, “Don’t we have any civil rights at all anymore?”

    2 snarky lesbians in the back row burst into hysterical laughter.

    No, dude. You rich white hetereosexual males are now completely oppressed. Go talk to the Christians in the corner who are whining about how unfair it is that they can’t discriminate against non-Christians and gay folks anymore.

  4. Citizen Jane

    The most migraine-inducing comment on that page was the d00d lecturing the woman who didn’t see how she could fight a powerful organization who had discriminated against her. It’s her fault that this discrimination exists because she has failed to stop the oppression she experiences.

    A lot like people who lecture rape victims who didn’t go to the police. When rape victims don’t want to relive their trauma to get that 6% chance of seeing their rapist go to jail, we all know it’s that victim who is responsible for all future rapes.

    One more person comes on a feminist or anti-racism community to tell us that victims are responsible for stopping victimization, and I swear I will start working on making a blamer computer virus. Something that pops up an error message saying “Own your privilege, asshole” every time they write a lecture to the oppressed about how oppression is their fault. Or mails everyone on their address list saying “Sorry for being such a privileged snotmonkey.” Or something.

  5. Zach

    Who to blame but the patriarchy for the myriad ways that dudes like myself unintentionally assert privilege, sadly available both in comment threads and patriarchies near you. Keep us in line, blamers of the female gender. Some of your unintentional “superiors” greatly appreciate it.

  6. Twisty

    “Keep us in line, blamers of the female gender. Some of your unintentional “superiors” greatly appreciate it.”

    Are you kidding me? Keep yourself in line. I’ve got margaritas to swill. Get it now?

  7. Jonathan

    it’s also maddening and, if you like, ironical, since such a post can only be written from the patronizing position of male privilege. It’s a kind of double-privilege, too: “Unlike you, Grasshoppah, the feminists have accepted me, for I have been to their savage death island and live to tell the tale.”

    Wow, I am repulsed by the stinky use of double-privilege. And now, thanks to PhysioProf, I have to figure out how to add double-privileges the male privilege list without turning the thing into a multidimensional array. And I still have to get my visa stamp renewed.

    The list is also bad because it completely avoids calling out men for being spoiled, vicious children. I know it was trying to be funny, but instead of cleverly calling out nasty behavior for what it is, the list strips morality and respect entirely from the conversation. The cruel and demeaning behaviors are whitewashed into inscrutable island customs, and the Dudes are once again left off the hook, cleared to freely chat themselves in the comment section about the many ways they hate women.

    Can anyone point me in the direction of the nearest flight to Shora? I want to emigrate away from this coddled misogynistic sty.

  8. Comrade PhysioProf

    The list is also bad because it completely avoids calling out men for being spoiled, vicious children. I know it was trying to be funny, but instead of cleverly calling out nasty behavior for what it is, the list strips morality and respect entirely from the conversation. The cruel and demeaning behaviors are whitewashed into inscrutable island customs, and the Dudes are once again left off the hook, cleared to freely chat themselves in the comment section about the many ways they hate women.

    The phrase “fucking up” was intended to exactly mean “being spoiled, vicious children”. My own privilege prevented me from seeing that this intention was not well executed, and that it had the effect of making it sound like a guide book to dealing with the curious customs of those wacky feminists. I apologize for that.

  9. JupiterPluvius

    My own privilege prevented me from seeing that this intention was not well executed, and that it had the effect of making it sound like a guide book to dealing with the curious customs of those wacky feminists. I apologize for that.

    Thank you for apologizing rather than mansplaining to Twisty why she was wrong and why she should lighten up.

  10. Twisty

    I must defend Comrade PhysioProf! His insights are excellent, for a dude who is physically unable to write a sentence that does not contain the word “fuck”!

  11. humanbein

    Privilege is like a weird disease that makes you really confused and unhappy whenever you meet up with anyone who doesn’t cater to it. The more taken for granted it is, the more anger and hostility you can feel whenever it is challenged. This goes for the privilege of wealth and the privilege of cultural norms of all kinds.

    You never know when your own privilege is being challenged unless you listen past resentment, and can be sure it remains if you don’t know how to recognize your own mistakes like PhysioProf seems to be able to.

  12. octopod

    Yeah, I read it as “fucking up” = “being a spoiled, vicious brat”, but I can see how one might read that as “making an obscure error in etiquette” instead.

  13. Zach

    *wince* Thanks, Twisty. I got it.

  14. Comrade PhysioProf

    a dude who is physically unable to write a sentence that does not contain the word “fuck”!

    I can fu…

    Who the fu…

    Fu…

    Ah, fuck it; you’re right! HAHAHAHAHAH!

  15. mir

    So the plural is tacqueaux then? THAT is a meme I can get behind.

  16. Pinko Punko

    Yeah, the “please keep me in line” is almost a rhetorical BDSM game. Cue the Depeche Mode.

  17. Barn Owl

    “Unlike you, Grasshoppah, the feminists have accepted me, for I have been to their savage death island and live to tell the tale.”

    I’d love to make a “Savage Death Island” sign for my office door at work. Maybe it would deter my d00d “colleagues” who think it’s OK and neighborly to march right in and proceed to riffle through books, journals, and papers on my desk. Where *are* those notes you were supposed to take for me, Barn Owl? Where *is* the carefully designed handout I can give to students without crediting you?

    Then again, likely it would be no deterrent at all. *sigh* IBTP

  18. Kuleana

    His insights are excellent, for a dude who is physically unable to write a sentence that does not contain the word “fuck”!

    Fuck, I am not alone in the world,then! Fuck yeah! In fact, just the other day I was advised by two street harassers more than twice my age that I am stupid and need to buy a dictionary because apparently I said “fuck” to them too many times after they loudly commented on my breasts. Apparently the “F” word is far more offensive to their delicate sensibilities than sexually harassing women young enough to be your granddaughter.

    In case you are wondering, I hope those fuckers fucking die in a fire.

  19. Twisty

    I hope those fuckers fucking die in a fire.

    So say we all.

  20. yttik

    Does anybody know how to access female privilege? I heard some rumor that we were fragile flowers who by virtue of our gender should never have to change the oil in the car or lift heavy objects. Sooo…..where’s my female privilege?? Did I forget to read the fine print in the patriarchal contract or something?

  21. ambivalent academic

    Sooo…..where’s my female privilege?? Did I forget to read the fine print in the patriarchal contract or something?

    No, no. You didn’t miss the fine print. It wasn’t in your contract. See, there’s a different one for the patriarchs. Their fine print details how they may deign to grant female privilege upon the wimminz if they so choose and that they may retract it as it so pleases them, according to their whims (not wimminz). So of course, nothing in your contract, because to stipulate exactly when and where you might get your female privilege would be to wrest the control of it out of the grasp of the menz.

    /snark

  22. Notorious Ph.D.

    Does anybody know how to access female privilege?

    Yes: you do so by giving up all claims to human privilege.

  23. Neko-Onna

    I’d love to make a “Savage Death Island” sign

    Want! I have a little sign over my door that reads “Dovecote” (I just love it when salespeople come to my house and address me as “Mrs. Dovecote”). I considered repainting the sign so that it said “Room 101″ after the absofuckinglutely miserable divorce I went through bummed me out for a while. But now, I’m really tempted to put “Savage Death Island” up there instead. I think it would kick ass to have someone call me “Mrs. Savage Death Island” (of course, they assume I’m married since I have the temerity to live in a house. Either that, or a kid. But that’s a different blame topic for another day). Perhaps I should put a few rainbows and unicorns around it so everyone “gets” that its a nature-crappist thing. BTW, I love the new page header. It just takes that whole feminists-as-humorless-and-hairy-shrews and turns it right on its head. It makes me think of one of my most favorite movie quotes. I paraphrase: “My audiences in Paris used to love it when I sparkled.” -Bunny Breckenridge, “Ed Wood”

    Sparkle on, Twisty!

  24. Barn Owl

    @ ambivalent academic:

    Great point about the menz and their whims, regarding granting/retracting of female “privilege”. Lately I despair that the male whims and male privilege extend to the blogosphere, even into the heartwarming nature crappism and savage death island corners of it. D00dz who are compelled to leave their insightful comments, d00dz who have valuable advice for all the savage death island nature crappists, d00dz who will tell you what you should and shouldn’t write about on your own fucking blog, d00dz whose male privilege gives them the leisure to troll the interwebz all day (and night) long. Surprise, surprise, right?

    @ Neko-Onna:

    A “Savage Death Island” sign, as tempting as it is to create one, would probably backfire in my neighborhood. People might think I was capturing stray toddlers and skateboard kids for Satanic rituals or something, especially since I also have the temerity to live in a house that isn’t owned or managed by a d00d.

  25. Ciccina

    @ Barn Owl,

    “People might think I was capturing stray toddlers and skateboard kids for Satanic rituals or something, especially since I also have the temerity to live in a house that isn’t owned or managed by a d00d.”

    All the more reason to do it!

    @ yttik,

    You and Sojourner Truth, both.

  26. Neko-Onna

    Barn Owl-

    I live in one of those neighborhoods, too, but everyone here is pretty much convinced that I am the Evuul Overlord of Satansville anyway. My kid actually goes around telling the other kids he does not, in fact, believe in god. My sign would be pretty anticlimactic.

  27. buttercup

    I’m putting a “savage death island” sign on my cubicle as soon as I go back to wage-slave hell on tuesday.

  28. JK

    “What has recognizing your male privilege done for you lately?” Um, allowed me to live a more fully human life while keeping myself in line? Swill away, Twisty… (on another note, in my humble opinion, the “fucking up” = “being spoiled, vicious children” controversy above seems a bit of a class thing – I got it immediately…)

  29. Nicolien

    @ Notorious Ph.D

    Thank you. Those were exactly the words I was looking for. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

  30. Cimorene

    Oh my god the thing about talking about your beloved wimmins is SO TRUE. I get so fucking annoyed whenever I read about a man who loves his daughters so so so much that he’ll be real real mad if anyone rapes her. It took me a while to figure out why this irked me like a big zit on your back that just. won’t. pop. But now I know!
    1. Are you doing anything to prevent this real real angrifying rape? Like, say, joining a men-against-sexual-assault group that goes around telling people how to prevent rape? And by people in this instance I mean men? Because men can prevent rape? No? You’re not? You’re just teaching her not to get drunk at a bar? Fail!
    2. You didn’t care all that much about rape until you had a daughter? Did the woman who, say, carried your pre-born daughter around in her belly ever make you think, wow–rape. It’s bad, eh? What about the half of the population that isn’t be-penised? Rape only became real real bad to you when something that contained half your DNA may have been subject to it? If you don’t care about women who aren’t related to you, I don’t have to care about you and your dumb insights.
    3. Do you want a cookie because you empathize, like, so much with women that now, all of a sudden, you think rape is bad? Fail! No cookie for you!
    4. Men who want to save women from rapists are just living out the negative version of the rapist culture, in which men are rapists of superheroes and wimmins are victims to be hurt or saved, all to stroke the fragile male ego! You suck!
    5. I don’t care about your feelings about rape. Your feelings don’t really matter to me, especially when those feelings are anything like “Argh! I’m so angry!” or “I want to [insert unnecessarily graphic description of violent fantasy] rapists, thereby proving how awesome and empathetic I am! Now will someone PLEASE give me a blow job, since I care so much?!”

    Cimorene says: STAB STAB STAB.

  31. Cathy

    Word, Jezebella and Citizen Jane. My lobes were split. The jackass who accused women of whining (all whine and no action) seemed to think himself perfectly rational. Also, someone linked to the Feminism 101 thread at Shakesville about feminists looking for stuff to be mad about. That comment thread was excruciating.

    Clearly, recognizing their privilege does nothing at all for them, which is why so few do it.

    CPP’s list did remind me of dewds being so scared of the mean women who have such frightful mood swings while pregnant – men must be careful or they’ll get their heads bit off! Perhaps he meant well, based on his Update. His blog (I visited only once) reminded me of Ozzy Osborne (or whoever does the talking at Black Sabbath concerts), who seems proud that he can conjugate the F word five different ways in each and every sentence.

  32. Catherine Martell

    Zach already got bit, but, hell, here on Savage Death Island, we take a man when he’s down and give him a good monstering, while bellowing catchy slogans like “The battle for the individual rights of women is one of long standing and none of us should countenance anything which undermines it!” and “All personal, psychological, social, and institutionalized domination on this earth can be traced back to its source: the phallic identities of men!”

    So I’d just like to remind him – with a snarl – that there is no such thing as a “female gender”. There is a female sex, and a male sex (and arguably a continuum of possibilities in between). There is feminine gender, and masculine gender; also infinite overlapping and interrelated genders, including butch, femme, queer, macho, etc.

    I am always tempted, when forms ask for my “gender”, to reply honestly: hmm, right I’m feeling casually rakish androgyne with a hint of dandy, but after a couple of whiskys and soda I’m liable to go all burly outdoorswoman. Bureaucrats are notoriously bad at getting this.

    Understanding the difference between sex and gender is kind of basic if we’re going to talk about feminism, patriarchy or heartwarming nature crap. Advanced patriarchy-blamers, meanwhile, debate whether both sex and gender are constructs, and everyone’s a tacqueau. While impaling male babies on spikes.

  33. Isis the Scientist

    I shared with PhysioProf after he guestposted for me that what I found interesting about this post, and the post the it stems from, is that the female commenters all dig him. It could be his devilish charm, or his willingness to try to understand the impact of his own privilege, or his coining of new profanity. It’s really the d00ds who are up-in arms over his use of naughty words and public shaming of misogynistic asses. “If you’re rude to me, how can I learn?” never stops being hilarious.

  34. admirerofemily

    Oh I learn so much on this blog!

    Thanks all for the illumination.

  35. Cara

    It’s really the d00ds who are up-in arms over his use of naughty words and public shaming of misogynistic asses. “If you’re rude to me, how can I learn?” never stops being hilarious.

    Well, it’s too obvious if they say “you’re a traitor” outright.

    I’m actually glad they whine about the language. I prefer that to “you’re just sucking up to the wimmens so you can get laid, way to go d00d”.

  36. Jonathan

    @JK:

    (on another note, in my humble opinion, the “fucking up” = “being spoiled, vicious children” controversy above seems a bit of a class thing – I got it immediately…)

    Wow, I think you found the root of the confusion, JK.

    Thank you, P, for making it nearly impossible to share the same language/understanding on this planet.

  37. Kelly

    These guys are veteran ethnographers doing a field study, warning the new grad students: “The natives have curious, unpredictable ways. Approach them with caution or they will prong you sure as shit with curare-dipped spears.

    Didn’t Ms. Marcotte’s book already exploit this trope?

  38. Zach

    Touché, Catherine. Point duly noted and assented to. My radical feminist wings have begun their true development rather recently (I’m still a teenager), so I’m bound to fall down a few times when I get all excited and fly into the comment board of Twisty Farmer, whose writing I’ve admired in silence for sometime. I do appreciate the edification.

  39. Twisty

    Well, everything’s a class thing in one way or another, but what do you mean, precisely, in this case?

  40. OVERLADY

    Yeah, what do you mean (the class thing) I don’t get it either.

  41. thebewilderness

    “…is that the female commenters all dig him.”
    Did you miss the part in the patriarchy compliant manual where women are trained from birth to provide cookies to, and/or have monkey sex with, and/or worship at the feet of, any man who vaguely alludes to the possibility that women are human?

  42. belenen

    Cimorene, your comment was spot-on! The #1 reason (if you don’t want your daughters to be raped, why aren’t you doing anything to change the world they live in) so obviously shows how they really feel about rape — that it’s an inevitability because that’s what women are for, after all.

  43. Hedgepig

    Physio Prof’s guidelines seemed fine to me. I didn’t get the impression he was casting feminists as strange and inscrutable. Rather, the focus was on male commenters’ behaviour.

  44. JK

    Er, sorry for not explaining “class thing” earlier (and, well, apologies for posting at all, usually I just lurk to get a good daily dose of radical feminism). It’s just that in every shop I’ve ever worked in (food service, factories, customer service), I think that most folks would instinctively get that “fucking up” means, more or less, “being spoiled, vicious children.”

    This is not to claim that they adhere to a radical feminist critique of patriarchy, or that they understand that men are generally spoiled and vicious (I’m a little skeptical of using “children” as a pejorative). I’m just saying that the experience of being dominated is often expressed by dominated classes (women, people of color, workers), in, ahem, “colorful” language which folks with privilege sometimes dismiss as offensive and/or inadequately analytical.

  45. Human Bean

    To be blunt, I read PhysioProf’s post before I finished my Twisty Brand Nutritious Breakfast, and it felt vaguely like someone pissed in my wholesome Feminist-O’s and replaced my steaming cup of shut-the-fuck-up with reconstituted non-dairy squeem. I came back from it with a distinct need to cleanse my palate.

    If the best guys can hope for is squeem and piss sodden O’s for breakfast, I can see why they have a hard time Getting It. An It Getting Life requires brain food that is free of patriachy preservatives. Maybe more d00dz ought to watch the last episode of the second season of Red Dwarf. That did a pretty good job of acting out the argument, and you don’t even need a Dworkin primer. Maybe it’s easier with all those visuals to see what makes feminists mad ‘n stuff, what with the whole system being absurd, violent and inexorable.

    It can make you a little cranky, yo.

  46. jenjen1352

    I have now added a Savage Death Island sign to my front door. It goes well with the I Do Not Want… list currently keeping most cold callers at bay.

  47. lauredhel

    “…is that the female commenters all dig him.”

    I’m guessing the ones that don’t aren’t commenting.

  48. speedbudget

    What pisses me off about the Men Suddenly Getting on the Anti-Rape Bandwagon When It Happens To Their Personal Property trope is that the discourse becomes about the man, and the woman is forgotten. I see it all the time when I’m watching my National Geographic channel or Investigation Discovery channel (I’m addicted to true-crime and court dramas. What can I say? I work in court).

    They will talk for a short bit about the woman being raped or whatever. You know, throw her a bone. But the real whinging and “woe is me” and how horribles start when they interview the Man in Residence about his Personal Vaginal Canal being used unsupervised by another dood. Suddenly, it’s all about the man, how he was so upset about it, how he could hardly get over it, how it affected his emotional state. “I really had trouble coming to terms with it.”

    I’m screaming at the TV, “Coming to terms with WHAT, asshole? What exactly do you have to come to terms with? Shit didn’t happen to you! Get over your privileged ass and quit acting like your wife/girlfriend/etc. is damaged goods, you fuckstick. And while we’re at it, HEY, DIRECTOR, wtf do I care about this guy’s reaction? Nothing happened to him! In fact, he ran off and sucked his thumb and cried himself to sleep when he found out about it! Get back to the real story, for fuck’s sake.”

    Rant over. But it really pisses me off how someone else’s violent crime becomes the property of some patriarchal asshole.

  49. another voice

    Unfortunately Speedbudget, EVERYTHING is the property of some patriarchal asshole. They don’t call it a system for nothing. However, your “coming to terms with it” rant makes me choke (with laughter) on my coffee. It’s either laugh or cry (or go on a murderous rampage, but that would only add to the violence).

  50. Isis the Scientist

    Did you miss the part in the patriarchy compliant manual where women are trained from birth to provide cookies to, and/or have monkey sex with, and/or worship at the feet of, any man who vaguely alludes to the possibility that women are human?

    Doh!!! Do you think PP offered to guest post to get me to fuck him? Damn! I knew it was too good to be true!!!!!

    I worship no one. But, I was thinking it was nice to have a d00d come forward at a pretty misogynistic joint to tell the other d00ds to stop being asses.

  51. Twisty

    Cut Isis some slack. Unlike the Blametariat, who live in an isolated internet bubble of radfemosity (Savage Death Island), Isis has to survive in a hostile dude-infested environment.

    Sadly, there’s really no percentage in telling dudes not to be asses; the truth will out, and the truth is that most dudes have no real interest in ending women’s oppression. Feminism must soldier on in spite of them.

  52. birkwearingblamer

    @ Isis: “But, I was thinking it was nice to have a d00d come forward at a pretty misogynistic joint to tell the other d00ds to stop being asses.”

    Dude gets a cookie for being a decent human? FAIL!!!!

    Speedbudget, I was going to post a similar rant, but you saved me the effort with some righteous blaming. Thanks!

  53. thebewilderness

    “Doh!!! Do you think PP offered to guest post to get me to fuck him?”

    No.
    Nor do I “find it interesting” that you went there.
    I find it predictable.
    Just as predictable as “the female commenters all dig him.”

    I suppose it depends on what you meant by finding it “interesting”.
    Perhaps I misunderstood. /slack

  54. Human Bean

    Hey ya’ll, it ain’t Isis’ fault that CPP wrote what he did. A feminist gave him space and he squeemed in it, continuing the tradition of scrambling the point of feminism behind a bunch of pointlessly complicated Rules of Feminist Engagement. That’s all. She’s not arguing the deconstruction of what he did here. She’s just saying, “Hey yo, I like the dood.” And what’s wrong with that? A lot of us like d00dz (because hetero isn’t a choice either), and feel compelled to defend them when they are blamed, the same way some of us like to close are eyes and envision happy cows in a pasture when we buy organic, amirite?

    Not saying that it’s rational to do it, but I’m just sayin… don’t kick a sister, because some of us have fuck-all for options. Sisters are where time is best spent in feminism, right? Who cares whether CPP gets it or not, or if Isis maybe thinks he’s a nice guy and lets him play in her blog, as long as Isis feels welcome in the warm fuzzy protective borders of Savage Death Island.

  55. thebewilderness

    HB:
    “Hey ya’ll, it ain’t Isis’ fault that CPP wrote what he did.”

    I must have missed the part where someone blamed Isis for what CPP did. Straw much?

  56. Human Bean

    *shrugs* Just read that way to me. My bad.

  57. Sutton

    “I’m well aware of the privilege inherent in [being a middle class white male], not that it seems to have done me personally much good. . .”

    OK, when I read that excruciating comment, I understood “it” to refer back to the privilege itself, not his awareness of it. In other words, he was acknowledging privilege while at the same time denying that he has any.

    Blew my obstreperal lobe right out.

  58. Barn Owl

    “Isis has to survive in a hostile dude-infested environment”

    This is absolutely true of STEM academic environments, and though I joke about Savage Death Island signs, it really sucks when you deal with it all the time. Not a day goes by without a d00d riffling through papers, “borrowing” cups of sucrose or NaCl or whatever, using up the last of the cell culture medium or buffers, taking data or notes or teaching materials, invading offices or labs or centrifuges or incubators out of turn, etc. etc. If you include all the women (students, research assistants, postdocs, faculty) in the academic environment, then the male privilege stuff happens several times an hour. At least. It’s exhausting.

    Thing is, plenty of female science bloggers address these issues frequently and eloquently. Isis, Sciencewomen, and Zuska, just to name a few. Zuska has been addressing gender smog and privilege issues in the context of STEM fields for several years now. But I might have to admit that some people won’t even begin to listen and pay attention, unless the message is translated into Old Fuckylvanian, or Ancient Dh00dnician. I just wish that it weren’t the case that almost every post/comment thread ends up being about some d00d, or about yet another throat-pouch-inflating lek conflict between menz.

  59. birkwearingblamer

    Academia doesn’t hold the monopoly on obnoxious dude co-workers. In the financial, business and legal world, there are dudes bringing in lost of money and holding real power. The well compensated men can use their money to contribute to politicians and judges (in my state the judges are politicians as well since they campaign and are elected!), which gives these wealthy men even more power. Unfortunately, scientists are not esteemed enough in our society to wield this kind of power, which I’m sure the male scientists would use if they had it. Yea, the male scientists steal your chemicals but they don’t freeze you out of building any client base that you need to survive.

    P.S. I had a stupid dude colleague that used to come into my office and talk to *my back* while I was writing on the computer. After I tried to ignore him and he didn’t leave, I began asking him how to spell particular words. When I tried to use him as a spelling resource, he finally left!

  60. Kuleana

    What pisses me off about the Men Suddenly Getting on the Anti-Rape Bandwagon When It Happens To Their Personal Property trope is that the discourse becomes about the man, and the woman is forgotten.

    Argh, the old rape-as-property-crime bullshit. I was just reading about it in a book called A to Z of Feminist Theology I checked out from the library the other day. I wish I could post the entire entry on rape here, but alas, I am far too lazy, and I don’t know how much quoting becomes a violation of copyright laws. Suffice to say it talks about how Biblical Deuteronomic laws on rape uphold this crap, and how Deuteronomy views rape not as a matter of crime and punishment, but of wrong and compensation — for instance the super-awesome dictate that if a man rapes a virgin he has wronged her father, not her, and must therefore give her dad a wad of cash and marry her. Because what woman doesn’t want to spend the rest of her life with her rapist? I would really shit my pants if they someday came out with a translation of the Bible that calls rape rape in every instance where it occurs, but of course I know such a day is far to seek — and even if they did, most people probably still wouldn’t have the light bulb go on as I naively hope they would. They’d just try to explain it away, as they always have. IBTP.

  61. Kuleana

    (Okay, so maybe it’s not so much a wad of cash as a flock of animals or something — I can’t be bothered to look up whether a specific payment is specified– but you get my drift that all living creatures under the sun fall under the dominion of dudes.)

  62. speedbudget

    It’s not just Deuteronomy. I know we talked about this when it first made the news, but it bears repeating. In Maryland, the law (stemming from a 1980 case) is that a woman can’t change her mind mid-pronging. You know, if you realize it sucks, it hurts, you really don’t like this dude, etc, you can’t change your mind. Cause your shit is used up already. And anyway, the rape isn’t a crime against you. It’s a crime against your Personal Vaginal Canal Posse, i.e., your father or husband.

    The decision is that any act following penetration, or the “initial infringement upon the responsible male’s interest in a woman’s sexual and reproductive functions,” (emphasis mine) isn’t rape cause your shit is already dirty and nastified and who wants you now, anyway, you slutty slut slut?

    I wonder what happens if your dad is dead and you aren’t married and you have no older or younger male relatives. Does that mean the rape actually happened to you? I mean, if a tree falls in the forest and all.

  63. joytulip

    re: the Suddenly Getting on the Anti-Rape Bandwagon When It Happens To Their Personal Property trope

    This is also problematic when the daughter actually does get raped and won’t tell anyone for fear that daddy will make good on his promise to kill any-man-who-hurts-her, thereby landing in jail, and it will be ‘all her fault’.

  64. Kuleana

    Oh yeah, I know. I had just been reading about Deuteronomy and needed to share how shitty it is that attitudes like that still exist. I remember at the time of the Maryland case, some more optimistic people thought the Maryland court had written the decision in a really medieval way to highlight that the laws needed to change so that it wasn’t all “the defiling has already occurred as a result of initial penetration” or whatever the really horrible language was, but hey, here we are two years later and it’s still legal in Maryland for a dude to make a woman hemorrhage with his dick as long as the hemorrhaging doesn’t start the second penetration occurs. I wish I could say I’m shocked that Maryland legislators haven’t lifted a finger to change this law (that I know of) but really, I’m not.

    (And if anyone wants to lose their lunch, the decision is online here.)

  65. Isabel

    “Cimorene says: STAB STAB STAB.”

    Echoes of S.C.U.M. manifesto – great comment, Cimorene. And some very funny writing by Twisty also – an impressive post and thread!

    “It’s comical somehow, that feminist women — women who are widely considered to be the hairy minority, the kill-joy joke-butts of the internet whose blogs are often described by dudes as “lame” or “parodies” — are so aggressively protective of their trivial little sectarian colonies on the web that men need special training and travel visas to avoid blogular deportation.”

    Yes, I can’t really get past this.

  66. Jess

    [quote]“I am always tempted, when forms ask for my “gender”, to reply honestly: hmm, right I’m feeling casually rakish androgyne with a hint of dandy, but after a couple of whiskys and soda I’m liable to go all burly outdoorswoman. Bureaucrats are notoriously bad at getting this.” [/quote]

    Try making a box saying “other”. I already do this on the ethnicity bit, with the dubious excuse that by birth I am Jewish, and some people argue that Jewishness is an ethnicity, and hey, it wasn’t on the form. One could also argue that ethnicity is a social construct. And gender, obviously.

  67. Reese

    I shared with PhysioProf after he guestposted for me that what I found interesting about this post, and the post the it stems from, is that the female commenters all dig him. It could be his devilish charm…

    This female, feminist commenter is afraid of Comrade Physiofprof. So I don’t comment where he posts or comments. I’m making this exception in support of TheBewilderness, who is an awesome feminist who is not afraid to call out bullies. And I thank her exhuberantly for that.

    Twisty, you are obviously very fond of some of the men who comment here like Comrade PP and Pinko Punko but if you read their words at other blogs you might have a different impression of them. Whatevs.

  68. Twisty

    This female, feminist commenter is afraid of Comrade Physiofprof. [...] Twisty, you are obviously very fond of some of the men who comment here like Comrade PP and Pinko Punko but if you read their words at other blogs you might have a different impression of them. Whatevs.

    Afraid? In what sense?

    It is true that I do not compile radfem-compliance dossiers on any of our commenters, male or otherwise. I have no idea what kind of crap any of you people might be spewing all over the rest of the internet. But heck, if you have knowledge of antifeminist shit that you consider ought to have repercussions at this blog, by all means give me a call on the clue phone.

    As for thebewilderness, I agree that she’s a treasure; in fact, she has an MVP plaque in the Hall of Blame.

  69. nails

    speedbudget and another voice,

    I was just joking with my co worker today about putting up a “HOVERING DUDES: go to the waiting room. We will not damage your property!” sign up in the lab so that asshole husbands would quit supervising us when we phlebotomize their wives. It isn’t like any of them would know if I was doing something wrong anyway. They carry the paper work to us and direct their wives into the chair for us as well.

  70. speedbudget

    Well, nails, for fuck’s sake. How would their wives know anything without them around to translate for them? Plus, you never know when that tramp might see some young buck and hie out to the hills. Even though obviously they have such a wonderful life with their husband, the bitches.

    /eyeroll

    I dare you to put the sign up.

  71. becca

    ~serious~
    Cimorene, you put it so well! That’s a huge part of what bugs me about male anger in response to rape. There’s also the fact that the typical descriptions of reflexive gratuitous violence just creep me the fuck out.
    ~/serious~

    ~silly~
    “is that the female commenters all dig him”
    Woohoo! Another study proving I am not a female.
    Can I at least sign up for Male Privilege now?
    ~/silly~

    Twisty, I don’t know about Reese, but there are comment threads where CPP’s presence has squeaked me out too much to comment. Specifically, it keeps me from commenting if I think it’ll make me appear too weak and I’ll end up being called a “Whinyasstittybaby” or the like. He doesn’t make me afraid to express anger, just vulnerability. Though there’s a history there which is not necessarily particularly related to gender.

  72. Lilac

    ” ‘I’m well aware of the privilege inherent in [being a middle class white male], not that it seems to have done me personally much good I do realize that it exists and I benefit from it in non-trivial ways.’

    Wow. He grasps that he benefits from male privilege yet simultaneously expresses his belief that he personally — rather than, say, persons oppressed by his privilege — should be benefiting from his realization. Now that’s privilege!”

    I interpreted that to mean “not that it [my white male privilege] seems to have done me, etc…” rather than “not that it [my recognition of my white male privilege] seems to have done me, etc…”

    He clearly referenced the same “it” later again in his comment (“benefit from it in non-trivial ways”) and that would hardly make sense if he were talking about his recognition of his privilege, rather than his privilege. The comment makes much more sense, in my opinion, taken that way, since the “it” would then reference an object already explicitly named (the privilege) as opposed to a concept not explicitly named (his realization/awareness).

  73. Jezebella

    Lilac, why are you bending over backwards to explain a dude’s comment about his privilege?

  74. Isabel

    Comrade PhysioProf
    April 10, 2010 at 6:10 am

    “The thing I love most about you, Isabel, is that you are able to make this statement with a straight face in the context of being upbraided for using the comments of IBTP to attempt to stir up trouble for Isis the Scientist, who has never to my knowledge shown her face here at IBTP even one single time, ever.”

    That’s right! never ever ever! Hahahah.

    And I just LOVE this comment. Accusing me of “stirring up trouble.” Acknowledging that I am being upbraided for attempting to stir up trouble. Calling me a troublemaker. Naughty feminist troublemaker! Poor wittle Isis. She is a good feminist, I am a bad feminist. CPP is the judge, Jill nods her approval.

    Hilarious, sick, and pathetic, all at once.

  75. Jill

    What the heck are you talking about?

  76. Larkspur

    Hi, Jill. I have nothing to add here, because I don’t understand the comments. But it’s been a while since I dropped by, and although it is neither pertinent nor profound, I think about you often, and I hope you are doing well, and that El Rancho is getting an appropriate amount of rain, and that Stanley and Maypearl are feeling frisky, and that spiders and rattlers are happy and healthy and far away from you.

  77. Isabel

    Seems pretty obvious to me.

    I would explain it, but, I don’t know, I feel like I would just be repeating myself. Which part don’t you understand?

    For starters, based on this random post and comment thread, which just re-appeared (resurrected by Lilac apparently)on the latest comments list, Physioprof’s recent comment to me on the flip-flops thread was, as usual, bullshit.

    The rest is pretty self-explanatory.

  78. Jill

    Which part don’t you understand?

    Well, every part, actually, particularly the part where you use the “word” wittle, all completely out of context in a comment on a year-old post. Apparently you dislike PhysioProf, which is fine with me, but go do it on his blog, would you?

    Also, you apparently dislike me as well, which is also fine, but it makes me wonder why you are bothering to both read and comment on my blog, and since I don’t like wondering things, I wish you would stop.

  79. Jill

    Hey Larkspur! Good to see you.

  80. Isabel

    “he part where you use the “word” wittle,”

    I am imitating him. Get it?

    “completely out of context in a comment on a year-old post”

    Jeez. Read his comment. Glance at the post and comments. Please don’t make me keep explaining it over and over so *I* appear crazy.

    The rest of your last comment is disingenuous, condescending and downright rude, even if it IS your blog. Which I read for the intelligent commenters. But I will stop if it upsets you so much.

    Obviously it is Physioprof who hates me, and continually harrasses me (esp. when I bring up class in a privilege-themed discussion), even right here under your nose, and with your approval (as when he quoted my post here on his stupid GYOFB and you commented jokingly in reply i.e. “showed your approval”).

    And YOU just told ME to shut my piehole(!) and implied I was a racist(!) and CPP joined the pile-on with the above comment. Really Jill, I am the hater here?

    Criticizing, without naming, a “feminist” high-heel promoter on a thread about heels and defending myself from false accusations of racism = hating?

    See, now you’ve made me go on and on like a crazy person. Cue an exasperated, clueless reply:

  1. Dude… « FemmEssay

    [...] keep me from wanting to walk off into the sunset of The Absurd chittering like a crazed squirrel, made a recent post teasing out the ick from a post written by Comrade PhysioProf, who is some dude. I don’t read [...]

  2. Happy Memorial Day weekend! « The Gender Blender Blog

    [...] What has recognizing your male privilege done for you lately? – Twisty has a great post up about male privilege, which is infused with her usual wit, charm and general badass-ness. It really clogs the Twisty lobes to consider that there are maybe six guys on the whole internet who don’t need need to be told, among about 894 other obvious things, that a) the entirety of feminism is not invalidated by the fact of that they personally love their mom, and b) freely expressing their fancy-free male privilege on heartwarming nature crap blogs is experienced by the heartwarming nature crappists as aggression. [...]

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>