Jun 02 2009

Anecdotal evidence of something

The White Zinfandel Scare of the 1980’s produced lingering aftershocks of dumbassness of which I was heretofore unaware. It’s 2009, and men are terrified of rosé wines. So quoth Stingray, reporting from the Spinster Sommelier Department. Apparently, when non-oenophile men and women attend her wine tastings, men eschew the rosé without fail, but women, of course, slurp it up like sponges. Stingray has to talk these chump dudes down from their anti-rosé panic attacks, explaining that pink wine is red wine, and that, although it made her gay, drinking it will probably not make them gay.

Homphobia. Is there anything it can’t explain? Such as the dumbest wine label I’ve seen in a while: Vinum Cellars “It’s OK” Rose. Apparently when people are reassured by hipster marketing that it won’t turn them into pansies, even mediocre rosé flies off the shelves. Vinum is sold out of the 2007 vintage.

It is always wise, Stingray says, to avoid wines with stupid, pronounceable names such as “It’s OK,” “Zen,” or “Kung Fu Girl.”

Vinho Rose

I say, let the rubes skip the rosé if they want to. Especially if it’s this rosé. Leaves more for me.


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  1. Antoinette Niebieszczanski

    At my niece’s birthday party last year my BIL swilled plenty of rose. (Me, I thought the particular offering was overly sweet and only drank enough to be polite.) To the best of my knowledge, he hasn’t been swishing around in my sister’s underwear singing “I Am What I Am” or frequenting bars wearing chaps with no pants on underneath.

  2. janna

    Well, it is pink. Anything pink is like kryptonite to straight dudes and their fragile heterosexuality.

  3. Felicity

    Hahaha… I have a bottle of birthday present rose on my desk now, and I’m no way touching the stuff. I hate it but mainly because it tastes of wee :(

  4. Someone

    I’m a petite li’l gal who greatly prefers gutsy red wines (uncircumsized ;) ), gutsy, hoppy beer, and gutsy stouts. Not so hot on sweet malty beer or sweet rosé, or foo foo sugary mixed drinks. And definitely not hot on wimpy rice “beers” like Bud and its ilk. It’s so funny that those watery thangs are marketed as “manly.” It is to laugh!

  5. Orange

    Just this morning, my 9-year-old son (who has the memory of an elephant) mentioned the time, probably back when he was 4 or 5, that he looked at pink boots at the store and I’d told him they were girl boots. Really, I’m not like that! I swear. So I clarified this a.m. that I’m OK with boys+pink, but that other people would give him crap about it. “What about purple boots?” he asked. “Well, some people think purple’s for girls.” “Then I’d tell them they don’t know anything and they’re dumb,” he responded sagely.

    In kindergarten, the other kids criticized him for using the pink and purple markers. Kindergarten! He still works hot pink in when he feels like it, and remains quite fond of purple. Too bad it’s so hard to find purple clothes that aren’t overtly gendered as girl clothes. (I’d love to find a purple t-shirt that didn’t have scalloped trim or a sparkly applique on it.)

    I’m marginal on rosé. Gimme riesling or pinot grigio, light and crisp and fruity, and don’t gimme any of that bullshit that it’s not real wine and that I should be drinking a cab. Do not want the reds.

  6. PhysioProf

    There are fucktons of fantastic dry rose wines from Spain. For many of them, one can obtain a red made from the same grapes. It is fascinating to compare the flavors of reds and roses made from the same grapes and infer the components attributable to the skin.

  7. Jonathan

    A lot of thought and effort is spent by the P in making weak-tasting or syrupy-sweet kids drinks appear as manly as possible.

    The financial dudes around here have (temporarily) put down their Bud Lights and suddenly taken to “Cape Codders”, which (when served by overpriced Boston bars) consists of a glass of cranberry juice with a hint of vodka. Blogs are now calling this drink manly, and every dude in the area adamantly insists that it is NOT pink.

    They also buy Starbucks Doubleshots, which is advertised as “bold” despite cramming cream and 17g of sugar into that tiny can.

    Meanwhile, my S.O. continues to drink whiskey neat and black coffee while making fun of her co-workers “milkshakes”. She is the only one in her office that does so.

    I could tolerate the trend-slave Dudes better if they weren’t always expecting everyone to congratulate them on their delusions of grandeur.

  8. yttik

    Hmmmm, I didn’t know Rose made you gay. I’ll be darned. So how many bottles will I need to drink? Is there a recommended dose? I’ve tried everything else, hanging out in public school where the homosexual agenda lurks, eating lots of tofu….

  9. Lauren O

    I don’t like wine, but I would totally drink one called Kung Fu Girl.

  10. ambivalent academic

    @ Orange – It’s too bad that the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles have fallen out of fashion. They were in when my brother was a bit younger than your son is now, and my brother’s favorite one wore a purple mask (Donatello?). He had purple EVERYTHING!! Tons of purple T-shirts (sans frills), pants, shorts, toys, really, everything in Donatello purple. Sadly he outgrew this phase, and alas, he is straight. I don’t think anyone gave him crap at school…for a short time anyway, purple was non-gendered and OK for little boys. Bring back the turtles, I say!

  11. Adam Myerson

    If you ever get the chance, you might like Federwisser:


    I had it in the Czech Republic, where it’s actually pink, but carries no gender-based connotations.

  12. Isabel

    I’m sure being pink didn’t help, but I think the main issues with rose wines in the past were their perceived sweetness and popularity with old ladies (not that there’s anything wrong with old ladies of course) and association with unsophisticated wine drinkers.

    I worked at a tasting room during the period when the ‘new, dry’ rose’s were being produced and heavily promoted, requiring a bit of a re-education campaign. Interestingly, Japanese men (family men so apparently-? straight) did not share the reluctance of American men, and frequently came in with pre-knowledge about the new dry roses, asking to taste them and making enthusiastic purchases.

  13. buttercup

    I think Kung Fu Girl may be an actual flavor of MD 20/20.

  14. intransigentia

    Personally I’d like to know what’s so wrong with sweet wines anyway. I mean, sure you don’t want something really excessively desserty unless it’s for dessert, but why is it that wines that are somewhat sweet, and actually taste like fruit – which is what they are made from, after all – are for unsophisticated palates? Where else is “yummy” a strike against a beverage?

  15. BMS

    I thought all wine made dudes catch teh ghey?

    Isn’t that why they drink very manly-man beers such as Bud Light and Michelob Ultra? To inoculate them from becoming one of us homos?

  16. Lindsay


    Where else is “yummy” a strike against a beverage?

    Not sure if this holds up for everyone, but in my family drinking coffee with milk and sugar is seen as infantile.

    But, yes, you’re absolutely right that it’s asinine.

    I blame the culture of snobbery that tends to crop up around specialty foods and drinks (and, often, music): If lots of people like it, or if it appeals readily to someone “uninitiated” — i.e., who hasn’t already adopted the values of whatever obscure little clique is currently defining taste — it must be no good.

    I also detect subtle undertones of puritan-style asceticism: attaining true mastery of oenophilia (or whatever) requires training yourself to like flavors you probably wouldn’t seek out otherwise.


    I’m a petite li’l gal who greatly prefers gutsy red wines (uncircumcized ;)), gutsy, hoppy beer, and gutsy stouts. Not so hot on sweet malty beer or sweet rosé, or foo-foo sugary mixed drinks.

    Hah! I think I might be your Bizarro twin; I’m a great big, butch woman who loves sweet desserty wines and foo-foo mixed drinks. My masculinity is quite unperturbed by this. ;)

  17. Deanna


    Hear, hear! They will pry my sweet, juicy blackberry wine out of my cold, dead hands. Or something like that. Cause I’m not sharing.

  18. Pulsar

    They came out with a new pink (as in more Red 40!) energy drink specifically (obviously) marketed towards women in that cutesy girl-power-type way. I wouldn’t touch any of that lethal energy drink stuff no matter the brand, but this one seems particularly nauseating. It’s interesting (unfortunate), though, that people these days see mostly any drink as an accessory to their personality.

  19. Lindsay

    @Pulsar, that’s probably an artifact of marketing. If what you drank had nothing to say about what kind of person you were, people couldn’t be bothered to spring for pricier, still-crappy sodas or energy drinks.

  20. yttik

    “Isn’t that why they drink very manly-man beers such as Bud Light and Michelob Ultra?”

    I really don’t understand that. Who would want to drink a beer that looks the same going in as it does coming out?

  21. thebewilderness

    This penchant for cultivating a taste, for that which tastes foul upon first taste, is a complete mystery to me.
    I stick with the fruit juice. Unfermented, thank you very much!


    CIGARETTES are what make you a MANLY MAN!

  23. Kauri

    I wish I could find a good online summary of Pierre Bourdieu’s theory of social class and taste, including (and particularly) taste in food and drink.

    I am a recent enthusiast for Bourdieu thanks to my girlfriend and various friends using his work to underpin their own academic and political thinking. I’m not generally a fan of The Great Man (in whatever guise), but I’ve made an exception for him, based not only on the quality of his thinking and how it’s informed mine, including my feminism, but also his insistence that a sociologist must also be an activist against state and cultural violence.

    Anyway, I digress. What I wanted to say was: all those who are wondering what’s up with people forcing themselves to develop their taste for stuff that tastes yucky: it’s a social class thing, a social capital thing. Check out at least Wikipedia’s summary of Bourdieu on food. It’s mostly in this section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Bourdieu#Bourdieu.27s_theory_of_class_distinction

    My own clumsy attempt to summarise: people develop their tastes as a result of their class background. Power structures are kept in place in society by making people think these tastes are “natural”. Social classes have their boundaries maintained by close policing of adherence to these tastes. (And we might extrapolate, boundaries of genders, “racial” groupings, etc.).

    Now I’m thinking: I’ve often wondered what’s been going on in the comments section of this blog and other blogs I follow when a contentious issue is being discussed, and the topical comments become interspersed with discussions of food. It’s always struck me as a way of taking some of the heat off, giving people some comfort and connection during a potentially divisive discussion. It’s also always made me a little uneasy and I haven’t been able to think why until right now.

    Now I think, another way to put that is that it’s folk re-affirming their membership in the same social grouping as a way of achieving cohesiveness during a potentially divisive discussion. Now I wonder who those discussions exclude. Not me, I’m a typical middle class foodie: but in my experience those type of food discussions in other settings make my working class girlfriend feel extremely excluded, and annoyed. And wine discussions- don’t even go there.

    If you thought being a lesbian would save you from the worst excesses of a mixed-gender relationship and all its fractal reflections of the patriarchy, try a mixed-class relationship, woman to woman. Phew am I learning some uncomfortable stuff :-( Some days, I *am* the patriarchy.

  24. BMS


    My brother used to say about brews: “If you can’t stand a fork up in it it’s not worth drinking.”

  25. vinoveritas

    I just led a discussion on Riesling (another wine that dudes tend to turn their noses up at) for the staff at the tasting room I work at, and we tasted through about eight of them, and I gotta say, the Kung Fu Girl ain’t bad. I like Washington State Rieslings, though. Sure, not as much as Austrian or German or (mmmmmmm) Alsatian, but you can’t beat the price, especially up here in Oregon. Rose- now that might be my desert island beverage of choice. Especially these 2008’s from the Willamette Valley.

  26. larkspur

    Oh, dear. My parents. My poor parents. As young adults, they were very much of their time: they drank what their elders drank, and that was whiskey sours, highballs, Seven & 7s (?), gimlets, martinis, Manhattans. (I don’t think Rum & Coke had been invented yet.)

    Time passed, they got married and produced me and my siblings, and the hard liquor was more of a splurge. Beer was the drink: Budweiser, Schlitz. When we visited my grandparents, my parents indulged in Michelob, which apparently used to be the king of beers.

    Wine? Unheard of except for on New Year’s Eve, when my parents would break out some Mogen David alcoholic syrup to toast the New Year.

    But gradually they began to sense that wine was something they might be supposed to like. You have to understand that my parents have always been extremely other-directed. They are terribly insecure, and live and die by the opinions of others. When it came to wine, they were babes-in-the-woods, and started modestly, even fearfully. Ripple it was, and Boone’s Farm, Bali Hai, Cold Duck, Annie Greensprings. I can’t even remember them all.

    But when my older brother returned home after being in the service, and starting college, and becoming a bit of a connoisseur, my parents’ wine world collapsed completely. My brother never mocked them, as far as I know, but since they looked to him for guidance on how to interpret the universe, they quickly figured out that Ripple was very very bad. They couldn’t buy or order wine at all any more. They were too afraid of mispronouncing something, or requesting the wrong wine for the meal, or having to know what brut meant.

    Now, I myself wouldn’t hose down my driveway with Ripple, but I hate to see someone get scared off simply to avoid the horrible tragedy of looking goofy. I wish they could have gotten past the idea that they were supposed to already know something, when in fact it was new to them. Either that, or that they could have enjoyed their Boone’s Farm Apple Wine in peace.

    I did learn from them, though: I just ask questions. What’s that like? How do you pronounce it? Oh, and that beer over there, the chocolate stout: will I need a spoon? Yes? Okay, gimme gimme.

  27. Jonathan

    Wow, Jill and Kauri and larkspur turned the residue from Vinum Cellars “It’s OK” Rose into an impressive deconstruction of Patriarchal class enforcement. Any chance you can turn Bud Light into something worthwhile?

  28. Ron Sullivan

    Any chance you can turn Bud Light into something worthwhile?

    A free source of nitrogen for the compost pile is always worthwhile.

  29. jael


    that’s the money. de-lushious and then some. in white, pink and bubbly. all good.

  30. A

    I wish I liked wine.

  31. rootlesscosmo

    Larkspur and Kauri, thanks. There’s no human activity that’s “just what it is,” separate from the gendered, racialized, social-class, heteronormative etc. meanings people ascribe to it; recall Dworkin’s assertion that “sex” as such doesn’t exist, because human sexuality is always expressed inside a patriarchal, racist social structure. Same with food and booze–the rules about what to eat and what to shun, who eats first and best or last and least, who produces and who consumes, and what happens to people who get drunk (hint: it’s a gender thing) aren’t simple biology or innocent foodie/oenophile fun. (This from someone who made and happily scarfed nectarine/blackberry crisp this evening. It was delicious, but that doesn’t erase the reality of who picked that fruit and what it cost and the price of the energy that baked it: the culinary, too, is the political.)

  32. Maureen

    Kauri, you’ve inspired me to look closer at Shakesville’s “what’s for dinner?” posts. You’ll get Kraft Mac ‘n Cheese and you’ll get arugula salad, but no one will admit eating at Applebee’s. Bourgeois food = good, prole food = good, Olive Garden = bad.

  33. speedbudget

    My sister is gay. She’s a total wine snob, and will NOT touch anything with a tinge of pink for fear of not being sophisticated enough. When I can be brought to drink wine around her, she merely tolerates my Rieslings (Washington state ftw!) and pinot grigios. But then, my sister has always been trying to class jump from our sad middle class roots to super upper class. She was sent to an exclusive private school in high school and hasn’t been the same since.

    For me, wine is meh. I’ll take a strawberry or blackberry mojito, thank you very much. Maybe a mango one. It’s hard to choose.

  34. Antoinette Niebieszczanski

    Too-sweet wine gives me a mega-hangover — I go to brush something annoying off my shoulder and it’s the floor. So I go for the big, fruity dry reds. My friend Ingrid’s ultra-pale complexion gets blotchy from reds, so she sticks to the Rieslings and that sort of thing. And my other pal Garnette doesn’t partake of alcohol at all. Vive le difference.

  35. Kim

    Crab on a label = safe.
    Crayfish on a lable, however, = that muthafucka is probably out to kill me.
    If this makes no sense to you, you’ve never been stalked by a crayfish.

  36. MLH

    This Spaniard does not like wine. I know, shame on me. Especially when I lived for a while in Jerez, the birthplace of Sherry wine.

  37. Spiders

    “Personally I’d like to know what’s so wrong with sweet wines anyway.”
    The more sugary the beverage, the worse the hangover.

  38. Betsy

    There is very little wrong that a bottle of blackberry wine can’t fix.

  39. Betsy

    Also, I made damsonplum gin last fall and I can attest that it brings a ruby cheer to any cold winter night.

    I s’pose, in class terms, that would be my attempt at English county-family gentility.

  40. octopod

    À propos of suicidal food animals, this Judas Pig.

    Maureen, that’s very interesting. I never paid attention to that, but I suspect you’re right. What I would expect would be a shunning of the prole food, so this suggests there’s something (yet again!) wrong with my Grand Human Social Model. What’s up with that excluded-middle thing?

  41. Comrade PhysioProf

    Those of you who like rieslings might want to try some Austrian gruner veltliners.


  42. Jill

    Oh boy, here we go with the gruner veltliners.

  43. vinoveritas

    Next thing you know, somebody’s going to start talking about Txacolina.

  44. Comrade PhysioProf

    Oh boy, here we go with the gruner veltliners.

    [Goes to check IBTP FAQ for “Thou shalt keep thy fucking gruner veltliner wine appreciation blithering to yourself”. Nope. Nothing.]

    On your marks! Get set! GO!

  45. Kelsey

    Kauri, I’d like to commend you on a great comment. My current S.O.’s family is enamored with fancy cheese platters. As a young, lower-middle class Midwesterner, my experience with cheese has been limited to the kind that is day-glow orange and comes in individually wrapped plastic slices. I don’t think this ludicrously expensive product tastes good at all. Actually, I think the whole fine cheese thing is an affectation. Frankly, it makes me a little uncomfortable. And don’t even get me started on the whole “two forks” thing.

  46. Jill

    I’m fucking with you on the cheese thing! Fuck that stinky cheese! It fucking stinks! Here in Austin we have this delicacy called, simply, “queso”; it’s essentially melted Velveeta mixed with picante sauce, and it’s fucking excellent because it doesn’t taste like feet.

  47. larkspur

    I’m sure everyone thinks the velt over there is always gruner.

    Fancy cheese platters are fine with me. I don’t see much of ’em, as I do not move in circles where such platters are found. But I like to go to my neighborhood grocery, which has excellent food because it’s located right in the heart of Wealthy Peopleville, and look at the cheeses. Pretty! Now and then they have samples set out. Yum!

    And in the produce section, they have cut fruit samples in those plastic domes (to keep flies away) with little toothpicks, and there’s one of my fruit portions for the day.

    But cheese, oh it is fun. I don’t much like the blue ones (aka “bleu”), but I love me a Brie or Camembert, and they don’t in any way taste like feet, and besides, how would you know what feet taste like? And nibbling on tiny infant toes doesn’t count, because there is nothing better that making a baby giggle by nibbling on its pure perfect little feets. Except for maybe when you blow bubbles on their little round tummies.

    Actually I used to work with a guy who would go out into the office park, sit on a bench under a nice shady tree, take off his shoes, and bite his toenails. I never witnessed it, but I found out because various neighboring office people complained to the management.

  48. ambivalent academic

    Actually I used to work with a guy who would go out into the office park, sit on a bench under a nice shady tree, take off his shoes, and bite his toenails.

    Wow! He’s bendy! That’s gross, but I’m now strangely fascinated. I would kind maybe almost like to see that. Not the actual biting of toes, but getting one’s feet anywhere near one’s mouth seems like a remarkable accomplishment. Geez, I need to get back on the yoga mat.

  49. Orange

    Oh! Thanks for the reminder, Comrade Physioprof. I forgot I’d opened a big bottle of Loimer gruner veltliner (from Kamptal) last week. I think it might’ve tasted better a year ago, but my Nigel doesn’t drink white wines, so it’s all on me and it’s not easy to get over the threshold to Yes, Open a Bottle by myself. Especially not when there is Spotted Cow ale in the house. (New Glarus Brewing Co., Wisconsin.) It’s sweet and fruity. Huzzah! Sweetness and fruitiness in beer? Be still, my heart. I need to hie to a decent liquor store for the seasonal Orange Blossom Cream Ale (Buffalo Bill’s Brewery, California) because omigod is that tasty. Smooth drinkin’, alright.

    So now I’m sipping my gruner veltliner before dinnertime.

  50. larkspur

    Bendy indeed. He was a skinny guy, and about 6’7″. Very long legs. An amazing sight, I am sure. But not a pretty one. It’s something to which one might aspire while promising to never accumulate physical evidence of having achieved it. Like, no toenail bits please.

    He was an odd guy. I liked him, but I only liked to visit him in his own office, because when he left his office to roam around the suite, that meant that he was planning to fart and wished to do it elsewhere, so as not to offend himself.

  51. Comrade PhysioProf

    I forgot I’d opened a big bottle of Loimer gruner veltliner (from Kamptal) last week. I think it might’ve tasted better a year ago, but my Nigel doesn’t drink white wines, so it’s all on me and it’s not easy to get over the threshold to Yes, Open a Bottle by myself.

    Good veltliners age very well. And that Loimer goes fucking great with MASSIVELY STINKY CHEESE!!!

    So now I’m sipping my gruner veltliner before dinnertime.

    Please, for the love of god, tell me you have one of those nitrogen wine bottle chargers. Because otherwise, having opened the wine last week, you are now drinking spoiled fucking swill.

  52. Maureen

    I just realized that the blog “Stuff White People Like” is an excellent example of what Bourdieu would call habitus, especially the youngish upper-middle-class liberal “habitus” or lifestyle.

  53. Maureen

    Prole, white-trash, and “student” food are all okay because they reaffirm the progressive movement’s affiliation with the working class (and because many progressives are in grad school and have nothing to eat but Ramen). Chain sit-down restaurants, like Applebee’s, I think are associated with suburbs, white flight, homogenization, the Disneyfication of Times Square, and Republicans. I don’t think most liberal foodbloggers are consciously aware of these associations.

  54. larkspur

    I agree, Maureen. My poor parents must again serve as my supporting evidence. They do favor the chain restaurants, and they have had year-round passes to Disneyworld for eons. They are very open in saying that they have no wish to go to Europe, because why should they when they can go to Epcot?

    I don’t go out to restaurants much. The only one I ever go to these days is a non-chain local place that has great breakfasts and lunches, freshly made, and not badly priced. But I’m only feeding myself; I don’t have a family to please (or pay for).

    I get why people go to chains, especially if you don’t have a lot of money to blow on dinner out. You know what you’re getting at Olive Garden. It may not be inspired, but it’s consistent, and that’s no small consideration.

    As for traveling, I don’t have money for that any more either. And air travel has gotten more and more uncomfortable, and I’ve gotten more and more grumpy, and I don’t even know if I’d consider a destination via a long flight. But I’ve always wondered why my parents – both of them ambulatory and with a bit of discretionary income – have never felt like checking out historical places and bed-and-breakfast places within a few days’ drive. They live in Florida and have never been to St. Augustine or Key West. I’d be curious about a lot of sites in the South. But that’s them; I don’t think there’s a wider class implication. They don’t like people very much, so if they’re going to mingle with the masses, they don’t want any surprises. Hence Disneyworld.

  55. speedbudget

    What wine and cheese would go with a good old toenail chew?

  56. Jezebella

    Maureen, you’ve just written the thesis statement for a paper certain to be accepted at the next American Studies or Pop Culture conference. Nicely done.

    I was recently coerced into eating at Olive Garden, after years of avoiding the place. The result? Bad food, *terrible* service, and it wasn’t even cheap. After almost a 60-minute wait. Why do people think it’s so fantastic? Also, nobody in there was laughing hysterically like they always do in the ads. Look, if you order fettucini alfredo, they should toss the fucking pasta with the sauce. Any place that claims to be Italian, but just dumps pre-fab alfredo sauce on top of clumpy pasta, is a fucking travesty. I don’t care if that makes me a snob or a bourgeois or whatever the hell. I’d rather eat at Waffle House. At least they make your food to order instead of dumping it out of giant Sysco tubs.

  57. Ciccina

    You can’t fool me, Twisty. You’re doing product placements in your blog to turn a fast buck!

    Go on, ‘fess up.

  58. Antoinette Niebieszczanski

    Snobbery (restaurant or otherwise) isn’t one of my vices, but I don’t like Olive Garden because of the way it smells. Like diseased feet or something else indescribably foul. Anything that comes from a place that smells like that should not be put in your mouth.

  59. Jezebella

    Olive Garden smells like feet because of all of that crappy Parmesan cheese they’re always flinging around.

  60. Narya

    Kauri, Bourdieu does, indeed, rock the house. I got to meet him once, and he was completely entertaining. Feel free to email me if you want to discuss any of this; I was introduced to his work about 25+ years ago, and it continues to inform the way I think about the world. He and Wittgenstein are my peeps.

    Orange, New Glarus (I think) also makes several fruit beers–cranberry, raspberry, and cherry–and they are extremely very excellent.

    Jonathan (way upthread): The Cape Cod thing make me laugh, as that was THE drink for men in the gay bars I frequented 25+ years ago. Which is probably not what your compadres have in mind.

  61. Jezebella

    Abita’s Strawberry Harvest is also tasty, if you can get it. It’s a seasonal, but their fruity Purple Haze is year-round.

  62. Isabel

    “, try a mixed-class relationship, woman to woman. Phew am I learning some uncomfortable stuff :-( Some days, I *am* the patriarchy.” class rates as the ultimate power relationship in my opinion. And the least often mentioned, so I appreciate the discussion here. And I just realized it’s the only one that boldly proclaims the power differential in the name itself.(Except maybe boss/worker, which is often the same thing.)

    Physioprof, if that wine was refrigerated, and the bottle more than half full, it won’t necessarily be swill after a week.

  63. little_sis

    OT but just wanted to give word to the wise; red mixed with white a rose doth not make.
    Learned that one the hard way.. (“Homer, you’ve ruined a perfectly good jacket!” “Correction Marge, TWO perfectly good jackets”)

    I’m pretty sure dudebros precious testiclads instantly shrivel up into their bodies and turn into ovaries at the mere WHIFF of a rose, or any other Girl Drink. They can get away with drinking it straight from a plastic bladder, however, and as long as they binge drink it.

  64. Barn Owl

    The points made by Lindsay, Kauri, Maureen, and others about social class and food snobbery/choice are really interesting. Because I needed to live close to work, and because I wanted to buy a house that I could afford with a traditional fixed-rate mortgage, I live in suburbia. I’m also undeniably white, and I have foodie tendencies.

    But I think one of the ways in which you can be a foodie, and still have solidarity with prole food culture, is to have a vegetable garden. My neighborhood is pretty ethnically diverse, and it’s easy to get great advice on growing (and cooking) heat-tolerant, exotic, delicious vegetables from people with South Asian, Central American, African, and East Asian heritage. Gardening is how many impoverished people (including my ancestors) who grew cash crops for others managed to sustain themselves and their families, and has been encouraged in countries that are/were Communist or socialist (Laos and Cuba are two examples). If I could keep chickens and goats for eggs and cheese, it would be even better. There’s a lot to be learned about “putting food by” from rural prole (disparagingly called hillbilly, or worse) folk wisdom as well, and you can still be a foodie about it.

    If you want to see affluent, highly educated people behaving very badly about food, try the experiment of hosting a luncheon or other get-together, in which you provide most or all of the food. Set out your carefully-prepared, delicious, healthy food, and then watch all the grabbing, shoveling, coveting, stuffing, whining, smacking, and overindulging among the faculty types. Compare their behavior to that of the students and support staff at the gathering, and watch who helps you clean up afterward, and who leaves their cups and plates and mess all over the place. The free food free-for-all and the entitlement culture do not make a pretty sight.

  65. Shell Goddamnit

    This is the THIRD rose’ vogue of my lifetime so far. I hope I can get in a couple more. Just because I spend them eschewing rose’ doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy them!

    “gruner veltliners”

    Hmm, what is this? Must investigate.

    I miss Alsatian Gewurtztramminer, myself. Cain’t find it anywhere. That lovely spiciness, ah, I do remember it well.

  66. speedbudget

    Orange, do you have Magic Hat in any stores near you? It’s a great little beer, microbrewed, but I’ve seen it on tap in many a bar far from its New England roots. Magic Hat #9 is a nice peachy beer.

    What annoys me about the Applebees and the Olive Gardens is that their food is crap and it’s the same price as the local restaurants where the food is actually good. I don’t get why people insist on eating at the chains. They’re no cheaper, and the food is HORRID.

    It’s like people are convinced that Wal-Mart and Best Buy have the best prices on things, but the local stores have the same price or slightly more but the employees at the local place actually know stuff about what they’re selling and really want to help you. I blame the megatheocorpratocracy’s marketing.

  67. Julia/Joolya

    Surely drinking rose would make Stingray more femme, no? The manly bro’s kryptonite would be the antidote for her gender fail, if the effect of rose is to cause mincing and wrist-droop in rugged organisms of the butch variety.

    Wouldn’t it be the time she ordered a beer in mixed company that transformed her from a dude-pleasing delectation of sugar and spice into a hard-bitten dyke? Cause that totally happened to my friend one time in grad school.

  68. Jill

    I hope Stingray never reads the description of her as a “hard-bitten dyke.”

  69. Nolabelfits

    What is a “hard-bitten dyke?” I’ve not heard that one before, but then I’ve been hidden away in Mommyville for a while. Someone please enlighten me as I would truly love to meet a “hard-bitten dyke.” Sounds like someone I might like.

  70. karinova

    >“Personally I’d like to know what’s so wrong with sweet wines anyway.”
    >>”The more sugary the beverage, the worse the hangover.”

    Interesting. Didn’t know that.
    I’m not much of a drinker– I’ve learned that booze just doesn’t seem to agree with me. But this is something I’ve noticed about oenophiles: if you ask, “what’s this wine like?” you get long synesthetic descriptions of colorful flavors and whatnot, but no mention of what is (to me, anyway) an unavoidably important part of the sensory experience of wine: the alcohol.

    Personally, I’ve always found that red wines seem stronger and get me drunk faster (and therefore I don’t like them). Yet I’ve never heard this as a piece of conventional wisdom. I’ve tried to verify by checking labels, but it seems most wines don’t even note their alcohol content! (Which surprised me, because I’ve always seen that info on beer, cider and liquor, so I guess I assumed it had to be there by law or something.)

    Again, I’m not a wine drinker, but it seems odd to ignore this no doubt varied and interesting arena when discussing an alcoholic beverage. Surely it’s no less interesting than the terroir et cetera? Look at whiskey snobs. For them, relative “smoothness” never goes unmentioned. Isn’t that at least partially a euphemism for “quality-of-buzz”? Or, take beer snobs. They don’t shy away from talking about alcohol content– in addition to hops-to-malt ratios, mouthfeel, bitterness, etc. And they’re nothing compared to weed snobs, who, along with lovingly describing the flavor, have developed a whole vocabulary for describing the strength and nature of the high. But with wine, there seems to be an unspoken rule that one must never refer in any way to the fact that wine makes you tipsy/drunk/blotto, or what it’s like getting there– it’s apparently gauche to care about it, and NOT caring about it signifies class. Fratboys care about alcohol content; classy people care about woodsy tones with a hint of burnt goat hair. Or something.

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