Comments on: Hugs, Twisty: The color of womanhood, plus I suck all the fun out of a Bette Davis classic

By: Isa

Isa — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:38:42 +0000

“Susan M., why must smaller, lighter-weight tools be “for women”? Women are not universally small, and men are not universally large.”

True that. Also, I am a tiny lady but I can sure as hell use regular tools, generally speaking.

By: Jezebella

Jezebella — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:23:23 +0000

I hope that’s not directed at me, Agasaya. My intention was not even remotely “oppression Olympics”. It was, instead, my personal response – a woman’s response – to a practice engaged in by men. “What about the men (in drag)?,” seems to be your question. Well, what about the women forced to wear drag every single day, I ask you? It’s not a competition, but it’s also unreasonable to demand silence from those of us who are made uncomfortable by certain aspects of drag performance. Your post felt like a demand for silence, and I resent that.

By: agasaya

agasaya — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:48:42 +0000

Can we try to avoid the oppression Olympics here? Some trans and ‘drag’ wearing individuals I have met wore traditional American female garb to communicate a strong rejection of maleness, rather than to embrace or endorse non-feminist womanhood. Their pain and oppression by the patriarchy is real also. They aren’t considered ‘men’ even if they are biologically male because of sociological (okay, socio-pathological) issues in gender identification. The rate of violent crime against them is very high.

It just isn’t empowering to denigrate their problems. Particularly when we don’t really grasp the full extent of the issues each faces as an individual. I don’t think there is a particular one-size-fits- all explanation either.

The question of what is a woman is far more interesting to discuss.

By: Antoinette Niebieszczanski

Antoinette Niebieszczanski — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:13:23 +0000

Thanks for putting that into words, Jezebella. You’ve just captured how I’ve felt about drag for years.

By: Hedgepig

Hedgepig — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 04:19:10 +0000

I’m with you, Jezebella. It’s like men hiring a bondage mistress for an hour: it’s exciting because they don’t have to be vulnerable to abuse by a sexual partner in their real lives. And when the session’s over, they can still go home and smack the little woman around. And yet women are expected to think men “playing” at feminine behaviours is harmless. We’re even expected to share our pronouns with them for the length of time they choose to impersonate us. And then they can de-drag and go back to being in the highest caste again.

By: Jezebella

Jezebella — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 03:57:58 +0000

Drag has come to mean to me something like blackface – only with stereotypical femininity instead of a stereotype of “blackness”. I look at it and see a mockery and exaggeration of the aspects of the practice of femininity I am rejecting as hard as I possibly can without losing my place in the world and my paycheck. To see men embracing stilettos and hours-long make-up and giant hair and corsets and stockings – it just makes me feel like, god, here I am wishing and praying and working so hard to be FREE of all of that crap, and these guys’ use of drag reinforces the cultural image of “femininity”. It feels like mockery to me, making fun of the stuff we *have* to do to survive, some of us. I used to love a drag show, but these days, I don’t like it. It makes me queasy.

By: sallpal

sallpal — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 00:22:00 +0000

I agree 100% with that quote of Ru Paul. And he has been through it, hasn’t he? He is proud of drag as art, and doesn’t identify as wanting to change to being a woman (although accepts “she” in drag). He’s turned his life around after really making his own success, then suffering through a downturn. There are podcasts that are very interesting. I wonder, though, about the whole idea of drag. Some think it is an art and theatrics. Some don’t recognize it. They just think drag is what “natural” women do. Women even mention it as being “feminine” and defy the feminists to take away their ability to “be a girl.” When I think they are a girl without being “made-over.” It’s drag. Enjoy it. Whatever. But call it what it is instead of a sex-linked trait.

And then there is this whole pathology thing that women have to put up with. And the requirements (stated or unstated) at work to be appropriately feminine looking at many jobs. And then as you point out, people changing sexes or men dressing like women face discrimination. It seems to all have the same patriarchy at its root where we have to have the signs and signals displayed to indicated who is in what class. And don’t dare get out of your assigned caste.

By: nails

nails — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:08:34 +0000

sallpal- I think Ru Paul said “You’re born naked, everything else is drag”.

I have known a few trans people, and without growing up with all the practice most women get at looking beauty 2K compliant they kinda just gotta take a stab at it. It is what most people think of when they think of “woman”- someone with long hair, lots of make up, skirts, etc. I don’t know if I can blame them for the image of womanhood everyone expects, it is especially dangerous for them to be ambiguous in that regard. Trans people get murdered just for existing. Awhile back a guy went on a date with a trans woman, and when he found out he killed her, the defense was that her transgenderedness was provocation and that the charges should be reduced. There are numerous cases of stuff like that.

The surgery is the only thing that brings relief to the vast majority MTF transgender people. They have to do hormones and talk with a specialized therapist for a year before the surgery is approved, in addition to living day to day as a woman. If a lot of them felt ok without it then I am sure they would try to avoid it. A lot of families reject their children when they transition, and often it takes multiple painful surgeries for everything to be done with. It is a really hard life, there is not any job protection for people who are transitioning either.

By: Kelsey B.

Kelsey B. — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:17:05 +0000

Jezebella, your comment made me smile because one of my greatest fears as an adolescent was being kidnapped and forced to go on one of those “Goth to Glamour!” -type shows. It sounds so silly, but this fear only subsided in my late teens, when I realized that they were pretty much all fake, and my mother couldn’t legally drag me onto national TV and forcibly apply bleach to my eyebrows. That being said, we still engage in shouting matches about how I’m “not taking care of myself,” i.e., wearing lipstick.

By: Simone

Simone — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 01:07:58 +0000

“*The Feminine Beauty Mandate states that all members of the sex class, i.e. all women, should endeavor to preserve themselves perpetually in a condition that the casual male ogler can easily describe as “fuckable.””

You just made my evening! Thank you.