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Dec 25 2009

Husband and wife blog team on board with antifeminist backlash even though it’s so 20 years ago

Wait. I have a blog? Shitfire!

But wow, check out this dumb blog. It’s one of those blogs that has “book deal” written all over it.

It’s supposedly a husband-and-wife joint coaching the reader on the successful pursuit of traditional manliness. Traditional manliness isn’t just a lifestyle, it’s a movement! It agitates in support of the appreciation of “classic cocktails,” of knowing how to “set the agenda” at “meetings,” and, as in the example below, of navigating the perilous waters of dating incomprehensible women.

Women are suckers for a man with a plan because it shows you have initiative, can think ahead, and aren’t shy about taking the lead. Don’t punt and ask her what she wants to do. Be a man! You’re the one doing the asking, so it’s your duty to come up with something that she’ll enjoy. When a woman is with a man that has a plan, they feel they can relax and really enjoy themselves. [Cite]

The husband/wife blog uses terms like on board to mean “having drunk the pre-feminist nostalgia Kool-Aid” and man up to mean — well, the precise definition of man up remains indeterminate, but I believe that on manliness blogs it concerns embracing with vigor a set of supposedly lost upper-middle-class honky patriarchal affectations, like the moral necessity of wearing suits to class, of criticizing women who think femininity is stupid, and of growing handlebar mustaches.

Here’s a post in which the manliness-loving duo expose the egregious double standard imposed upon manliness-seeking men by scruffy feminists in sweatpants. Apparently scruffy feminists in sweatpants want men to eschew their natural barbarism*, but are not sufficiently on board with their own feminine role in this business of manning up.

“[T]he new movement towards a return to traditional manliness needs women to be on board to be successful. After all, if you have men opening doors and asking women on real dates, and they’re just laughing in your face, that’s clearly not going to work out too well. And if you have men striving to be their best, but they feel like women aren’t even trying, you’ve got a recipe for creating strained relations between the sexes and bitter and disillusioned men who think all women are an unappealing mess who are not worth the trouble of dealing with. [...] [T]hese days a new double standard has emerged where it’s okay to celebrate men manning up, but telling women they need to recover some of their femininity is offensive.”

Ladies, if you desire your interactions with the nattily-dressed oppressor to be as painless as possible, you will do your nails and makeup.

_________________________
* “[Y]our car probably smells. Leaving sweaty gym bags or Saturday morning’s fish catch in a car causes odor to build up in the upholstery. Spare your date the olfactory torture by airing out your car and spraying it down with Febreeze.”

[Gracias, Rebecca]

101 comments

  1. Larkspur

    Oh, I love when they explain the “disparity” between what we expect of men (everything!) versus what we expect of women (expect? That’s sexist!):

    “…The first is that men spent most of world history in a position of privilege (although there were real downsides to being a man during this time, too). Then the women’s movement happened and they lost that position….”

    Then the women’s movement happened. It just happened. Like a remake of Invasion of the Body-Snatchers, with bizarre voracious entities known as “feminists”. Who just stumbled across humankind and thought topsy-turvying everything would be loads of fun.

    Now men have to wear clean suits, but the women don’t even have to shower any more, precipitating the tragic collapse of the cosmetics industry, and wreaking such horrors as the sight of Manolo Blahnik’s head on a pike (well, a stiletto spike, actually) as men tremble in fear and Birkenstocked women march out of the ruined cities.

    Then the book deal happened, and women lost their Birkenstocks and had to girl up with stupid shoes. Because stupid girl-shoes and manliness go together, because then she can’t run away as easily.

    But you can’t un-happen the womens’ movement, and as you ease your aching feet out of the stupid girl-shoes, you begin to imagine them weaponized.

    But that would be the second movie in the trilogy. I wonder who gets cast in the first movie, The Manning Up? The men don’t matter, because they are all automatically worthwhile and deserving of worship. But the women: well, Sarah Jessica Parker, for starters, poor dear.

    Oof. You are good at inspiring tangents, TwistyJill. Thank you. And merry Friday!

  2. Comrade PhysioProf

    After all, if you have men opening doors and asking women on real dates, and they’re just laughing in your face, that’s clearly not going to work out too well.

    Maybe women are laughing in my face because I’m acting like a ridiculous entitled douchebag? Nah, impossible!

  3. agasaya

    Notice that they say the woman has to be ‘on board’ for manliness to succeed. This means that women are expected to be able to take care of the business of living but are required to make it appear as if the man is doing it. In return for falsely assuring Mr. Man that he is the sole source of all effective action for the couple, the woman receives – what exactly? Must be sex because otherwise, this sounds like an employer-employee relationship where the putative ‘boss’ gets credit for an employee’s actions without the worker receiving the reward of a paycheck. If memory serves, sex isn’t all that fantastic to warrant such effort.

    Anecdote alert: I once commented to an over-protective SO that he only wanted the appearance of a women needing his help in all things but not the reality of it. This way he didn’t have to worry if he didn’t have the time to see to things himself. A delusion requiring collusion (with me). He admitted it was so.

    When will ‘manly men’ learn that if women act like helpless floral arrangements, we start to think like floral arrangements. Then they learn they aren’t ‘men’ enough to manage things themselves.

    Independence and self-reliance is a use it or lose it phenomenon as are most skills. Wives/lovers who lose such skills usually find themselves ‘left’. Too much reality must be hazardous for men’s health. The Surgeon General ought to put that on boxes of condoms.

  4. thecynicalromantic

    Men striving to be their best and women not even trying? I wanna live in the universe he’s living in!

    In the universe I’m living in, we mostly have men sitting around doing whatever the fuck they feel like doing, and then whining that women should like it, even though the women are busy running around attempting to fulfill every single expectation that has ever been made of a human being, all at the same time.

    Oh wait, actually, that does sound exactly like this dude and his (imaginary?) wife’s blog. “I’m gonna be dudelier! Ladies, your job is to shut up and like it! And to do these twelve hundred other things!”

    Additionally, there is fucking nothing manly about classic cocktails. It does not require a penis to make a cocktail. In fact, if one does find a way to involve one’s penis in the cocktail-crafting process anywhere, the result should probably not be drunk.

  5. ElizaN

    Don’t use red nail polish, though, or you will get a demerit on the wife chart!

  6. thebewilderness

    There are an astonishing number of people typing their fingers to the nubs seeking to publish new, and hopefully lucrative, lyrics to the patriarchy theme song. Submit, or die.

  7. liberality

    I cut my nails and keep them clean the same way men do. Men on television wear make-up too. All of them, all the time.

  8. Ron Sullivan

    When a woman is with a man that has a plan, they feel they can relax and really enjoy themselves.

    They can even gets so relaxed that they loses track of how many of her she are.

  9. Kelly

    …of criticizing women who think femininity is stupid, and of growing handlebar mustaches.

    Since I’ve entered menopause I’m growing a helleva handlebar mustache and after seeing myself in the rear view mirror today I realized a goatee as well.

  10. moby

    let’s pick some better fights ok?

  11. Jane Q Public

    “asking women on real dates”

    What the fuck constitutes a fake date? Does real man + real woman = real date? Or is it real man + real date = real woman? Does a real date entail watching a dude play X Box on the sofa in his mom’s basement amongst empty cans of Natty Ice? Does a real date involve cloth napkins and silverware? Is a fake date made real simply by opening a door for a lady?

    I’m so curious. Why didn’t the Mister and Missus tag team address this? How are men meant to navigate the uncertain waters of manning up without this crucial knowledge? I hope they tackle this in the book.

    At least now I know that the smell emanating from the back of a manly car is barbarism. Here I was thinking it was crusty sweatpants and a three day old Whopper with cheese.

  12. Larkspur

    When a woman is with a man with a plan, eventually they go to Panama, right?

    Oh, and furthermore, this is so sweet: When women fuck it up “…you’ve got a recipe for creating strained relations between the sexes and bitter and disillusioned men….”.

    First of all, recipes are irrelevant in discussions about men and women, because recipes only matter to women. Duh.

    And then the nightmare scenario of bitter and disillusioned men: oh dear, if you think they hate us now, just wait until they get bitter and disillusioned! I guess they could even become dangerous.

    Trust me, Kelly, you can create valuable defensive space using only the diversion of twirling your mustache. And I think I could draw blood with some of my chin hairs. It doesn’t hurt to look at the bright side of menopause.

  13. Citizen Jane

    I totally feel like I can relax and enjoy myself when I’m doing what my man wants to do and don’t have to deal with the stress of doing what I want to do.

  14. io

    Every time there’s a new post by Jill I enjoy a nice hit of dopamine.

    I once helped a guy “feminize” as a fetish/curiosity thing on his part — shaving, putting on (some) make-up, picking out an outfit — and he finally understood why it took girls he’s dated so long to get ready for a dinner out. At least he had the good sense to recognize it wasn’t “vanity” on their part.

    Also, @Ron: ahaha.

  15. jezebella

    8 tags for this post!? That may be a record.

  16. nakedthoughts

    If Women aren’t “on board” to get men to “man up,” and men don’t want to “man up,” why should anyone change? Does this couple have a fetish for creating manned-up men and femmed-up womyn? How do they know their success rate for converting girly boys and manly womyn? Does their success rate change the intensity of their orgasms? Do they need a success rate at all? Could the existence of the blog alone fill their needs?

    This post has created more questions than answers.

  17. Barbara P

    On the wife demerit chart, it says “Flirts with other men at parties or in restaurants”. I first read it as “FARTS with other men at parties or in restaurants”. Such a funny image.

  18. Jill

    moby
    December 25, 2009 at 11:20 pm
    let’s pick some better fights ok?

    By all means, moby, permit me to solicit your views on what might constitute “some better fights,” so that I may more precisely tailor my writing to your personal tastes. Trembling with excitement at the prospect of this enlightenment, I do the tip-toe butt-dance on the glorious precipice of anticipation.

  19. yttik

    Amazing there is still confusion about opening doors for women. That’s been a on-going theme since about 1923 when we first tried to get the ERA passed. Confusion over who has to open the damn door may even be responsible for it not passing.

    This is really redundant, but one more time, I’ve never met a woman who was upset because somebody held the door open for her. I’ve never even met a man who didn’t appreciate having the door held open for him. It’s when doors are slammed in your face or on your head that people start to feel like they may not be viewed as full human beings.

    We should never underestimate the power of doors on the human psyche. Dogs for example, establish dominance and pack leadership based on who gets to go out the door first. Not long ago we insisted on separate doors for blacks, for servants. We still do for employees. Some doors used to say, No Women Allowed. It’s still just all about who gets to go through the door first.

  20. Karley

    yttik- I hold the door for everyone, and I’ve actually had two instances where guys acted all cockblocked because I opened the door for them.

    There was the time when I reached the door to the building, oblivious to the guy who was running from several yards away to beat me to the door to show me how chivalrous he was. Deprived, he gave me the stink-eye and stormed inside.

    The other time, I held it open for a gaggle of fellas, and they ALL STOPPED and gave me the stink eye. One muttered “bitch” in a stage-whisper as he pushed past me. Stage mutter. Whatever. I should mention that in both these instances the guys were complete strangers.

    This husband and wife team reminds me of something that showed up in my local paper, which I HAVE to share with everyone here, but it’s difficult because the file’s so big. Patience! Hearty laughter and befuddlement is on the way!

  21. Marilyn

    I just tried to leave a contrary comment on the blog and my internet browser crashed. Ha ha!

  22. kate

    after reading the posts over at the site i am about this close to puking. i also am so discouraged – i think sometimes the fight is futile – men just DON’T get it, and i don’t think they’re worth it -
    attempt at dialog is wasted – LOVED the post comparing women to driving sports cars.
    However Barbara P – i too read the flirts as farts and LOL – farts with men at parties – now that’s something i can get behind!

  23. Marilyn

    Oh, they get it. They just pretend that it’s all about manners and civility. If only…

  24. Linda Radfem

    This is why het married couples shit me to tears. Him being the entitled douche and her constantly explaining why it’s ok for him to be. They are to be avoided like warm beer.

  25. Linda Radfem

    ” It does not require a penis to make a cocktail.”

    Unless you’re gonna use a blender.

  26. Larkspur

    Linda RadFem: “…Unless you’re gonna use a blender….”

    Hah. You owe me a keyboard. Mine is soaked with my mantini. I’d better get out the blender and make another one. Maybe I should have a Manhattan instead. Or perhaps a refreshing Man Tai.

  27. kel d

    Re: Doors.
    In Denmark, they (men and women) run through the doors and let it slam in the person behind’s face.
    If you reach a door and allow someone to go through from the other side, often someone behind you will push you out of the way to get through.

    The smaller, the weaker, the disabled and the timid get stuffed by this system.

    Imagine thinking something could not possibly be any worse and then moving to Denmark.

  28. Felicity

    ‘On board’ is okay with oppression, or a life of stagnation. Being ruled by a conscience, and denying the ego a trialling life; happily becoming slave for Nigel, picking up socks as described by your I- Have- A- Vagina Manual.

    It racks the brain what these anti- feminists try to legitimately sell to us. They happily ignore women statistically happier outside of a role of marriage. And we’re patronised to wit’s end that we should enjoy a life encaved in four walls, instead of a challenging life, career, transendance, healthy ego satisfaction. Modern women don’t opt- out of life being a man’s object, ornament and dog. I’m pretty sure men in their manliness are enjoying the ‘divorce three wives by 40/ single’ option, which doesn’t include traditional women.

    *Sigh* I wish I respected men enough to want to devote my life to them as gods. Sad as it is, they produce shit like that dumb blog and make me want to slap them with tuna.

  29. The Fart of Manliness

    kate is correct; attempt at dialogue is a waste. I made a couple of attempts to engage and was rebuked promptly by Manly Patriarchy Daddy and Mustachioed, Published Author Brett McKay [tm]. He saw fit to delete my delusional feminist postings, too. I guess he’s not “man” enough to discuss HIS problems–only the problems of women.

    That’s masculinity for ya.

    Not one to be silenced by Mr. Patriarchy Pants, I decided to make my OWN blog. It is called the Fart of Manliness. My inaugural post–”What can whites expect of blacks?”–is guaranteed to help honky white men to MAN UP! It will surely result in a book deal within a millenium or less.

    http://thefartofmanliness.blogspot.com/2009/12/what-can-white-people-expect-of-blacks.html

  30. Casey

    When a woman is with a man that has a plan, they feel they can relax and really enjoy themselves.

    Men with plans have always made me nervous. Always.

    Also, Jill said “shitfire!” Yay! How I adore that word, and how sad that my late grandmother was so confined by patriarchal notions of ladylike behavior that she modified it to “pootfire.”

  31. Alex

    Re: Doors:

    I love the myth that The Ebil Femmynists get all bent out of shape if a man opens a door for them–every now and then my local newspaper runs a letter to the editor on that topic. Every now and then I’ll have a man open one for me that I can just tell is hoping to get fodder for such a letter (something about my choice of gender presentation seems to bring this on). My strategy is to say “Thank you” in a tone of mild surprise, then, if it happens to be a place where there are two sets of doors in a row, trot ahead and hold the second door open for him.

    Re: Real Dates

    I have a feeling a “real date” is one where the man
    1. chooses the movie/restaurant/other activity,
    2. assumes responsibility for all interactions with the outside world (for example, coveys the woman’s menu selection to the server, if not actually makes her choice for her),
    3. and of course pays for everything.

    (Note, for any Real Men or feminist beginners reading, the first and last items are completely unproblematic IF the role of Decider&Payer is alternated or otherwise shared between the two members of the relationship–having the “whaddyou wanna do?” “I dunno, whaddayou wanna do?” conversation every Friday night is not intrinsically feminist–and, more to the point, it’s not particularly fun, either. Having one person assume the responsibility for coming up with the game plan and making it happen is a good idea, as long as it’s not the same person every time.)

  32. Jodie

    I don’t know that I’d go so far as to actually get behind party farting. I’d rather be in front of it.

    And speaking of parties, I think we should celebrate menopause with a huge shindig, and non-manned-up martinis.

  33. Hezbella

    This is ‘Storm Front’ (The white supremacist website that laughably insists it’s not racist) for Ivy League date rapists, who similarly refuse to “man up” and admit they are woefully lacking entitlement ‘bags.

  34. Alexandra

    Oh, Twisty, you’re so old-fashioned. Who reads books anymore? The only way this has ‘book deal’ written all over it is if Oprah or Dr. Phil picks it up and gives everyone in the audience today a free copy.

    Personally, I think the aim is more likely a spot on reality teevee.

  35. The Fart of Manliness

    Alexandra, they already have a book deal! Check Amazon–the Art of Manliness is being released in patriarchy-approved book form in only a couple of weeks.

  36. Jill

    “Alexandra, they already have a book deal!”

    I don’t just make this shit up, you know!

  37. Kelsey B.

    From “The Art of Manliness:”

    “But the younger generation is looking at getting dressed up and making their mark,” Mr. Cohen continued. “It’s a real generation gap here. I teach at three different colleges, and I am amazed how dressed up some of the students are. Girls still come in their hoodies and pajamas, but boys come in their suits.”

    I just got my BA from a large Midwestern university. I have seen those dudes. Those suits are baggy with narrow purple pinstripes. They are combined with wide ties, huge, pointy-toed wingtips, and enough hair grease to lube up a fucking bicycle chain. Sartorial NIGHTMARE. I look better in my pajamas than those dudes do in suits.

  38. Felicity

    Haha have you seen this guy’s section on porn?

    He apparently thinks it’s bad, then gets confused with those who think it’s better to oppress women as dirty slags, as opposed to mousewives. They argue with each other, there’s no need for us.

    Haha he also keeps deleting funny feminist comments on his blog :(

  39. ew_nc

    Comments were closed when I visited this digital drivel. Guess they aren’t “man enough” to handle challenges to their opinion. How shocking. /snark

  40. Jane Q Public

    Comments are closed? Dammit. There goes my fun. There were several comments on there about wanting a woman from Latin American or Asia. So I left a comment regarding how American men are total drags because of the exhausting posturing they insist on doing. I may have also mentioned preferring men from countries where parental leave is universal and guaranteed. I might have hinted that American men should stop trying to define women in order to feel more like men.

    Of course, I have no intimate experience with men from other countries, so I have no way of knowing that they are any different from their American counterparts. But, man, does that get the fellas worked up into a lather. See, it’s only okay for them to want a foreign born spouse. I’ve had this conversation before, and I just laugh and laugh at the offense honky American dudes take to the notion that they aren’t the end all be all of men everywhere. It’s fucking hysterical.

  41. kelly

    Men with plans have always made me nervous. Always.

    Me too. Plan=alibi.

  42. jezebella

    Wow. Five minutes skimming the comments & now I feel the need to shower. All of that verbose smugness is stinky.

  43. Ron Sullivan

    …agitates in support of the appreciation of “classic cocktails,”

    Put Christ back in Christmas! Put the cock back in cocktails!

  44. Jezebella

    Ron Sullivan, you are on a roll! Heathen’s Greetings to you!

  45. Antoinette Niebieszczanski

    Ron Sullivan, you make me go ha ha. Loudly.

    “Real dates” are also initiated by the man, never the other way around. The same goes for the humpty dance.

  46. PandanCat

    The humpty dance is your chance to do the hump!
    Do the humpty hump! Watch me do the humpty hump!

    Ahem. Sorry about that. In all seriousness, I’m not surprised that these real red-blooded men are looking for unspoiled women from exotic poor countries. There’s nothing like severe economic disparities to bring out the submissive in a woman, yep. Oops, I mean, to bring out the pure essence of femaleness that western bitches have burned out of themselves with the hairily unholy flame of feminism. (Shut up, Firefox! Hairily is so a word!)

    Also of interest: manliness as an art. Not as a pure essence emanating from the gonads, but something to be cultivated, worked at, meticulously fashioned like topiary. Sound familiar?

  47. Princess Rot

    Ron Sullivan, you made me snort Jager all over my laptop. Wait, I’m a laydee, shouldn’t I be drinking something the British call an “alcopop”? Strsight liqueurs are for manly men only, as evidenced by the word “straight” in the name. Laydees should only drink things full of sugar and shit so we can spend our time making sure we’re on enough of a high to fulfill the needs of a man, but not drunk enough to forget the pain.P

  48. Princess Rot

    P? Strsight? Whoa, steady on, Captain Jack. The rum will be gone.

  49. yttik

    The inspirational manly heroes on that website are kind of sad, Ernest Hemingway, a man who saw two wars, three failed marriages, and eventually committed suicide. Or Teddy Roosevelt who had to prove his manliness by refusing medical treatment after being shot, instead believing he must first give a 90 minute speech so as not to appear what, feminine?? Apparently pretending not to be bleeding all over the place is a very manly thing to do. Those men who think they support the patriarchy might want to keep this in mind. Your goals in life will involve bleeding profusely and eventually offing yourselves.

  50. Larkspur

    Oh, the blood, the blood. Sure, a manly great big sucking chest wound in defense of freedom or wolverines is laudable, but only if you say (gritting your teeth) “It’s only a flesh wound” or “Honey, I forgot to duck”.

    But your non-spectacular every day bleeding? That’s not only feminine, it’s downright womanly. Drip drip drip. Every month, from the vagina, the place everybody came from to meet the world, and before the vagina? Nothingness. Which reminds them it ends with nothingness, which reminds them of death. Everything put together sooner or later falls apart. Woman, vagina, blood, birth, death. (Then mulch. Repeat a billion times.) Every time they look at us, they remember they’re going to die.

    Well, the mean and stupid ones anyway. Some grow up and become fully human. You will never find them in my Manhattan.

  51. Marilyn

    I got my comment in before they closed, and he didn’t delete it. Now I wish I’d said more.

  52. norbizness

    Not only did I not post a comment, it didn’t even get deleted!

  53. Antoinette Niebieszczanski

    Farting with other men at parties has rather enhanced my reputation as a Fun Date.

  54. Jodie

    Princess! Women aren’t supposed to have SUGAR! We might get — gasp! — fat or something. Heaven forbid we let ourselves go. Which always makes me think I should let myself go do things like start an evil empire (what else would “let myself go” even mean? I never did understand that).

  55. fannie

    The Art of Manliness?

    Well, at least they’re admitting that manliness is something that has been created, as opposed to something that’s intrinsic to people born with penises.

    The definition of art meaning “trickery, cunning” is perhaps most apt.

  56. Sarah Jay

    There are so many things about that Art of Manliness post that call for spit-takes, particularly concerning the supposed reasons for why its cool to bash dudes, but not women:

    “if anyone suggests that bringing back some old school femininity might be a good idea, it’s been ingrained in them that they should be offended.”

    What about the concept of femininity (old school or otherwise) being “ingrained” in the first place? Apparently the writers haven’t ever stopped to think that the expectations of femininity could be responsible for the mysterious discontent the authors hint modern women suffer from.

    “women have historically been put on a pedestal, as the protectors of morality, while men have been disparaged as being baser in their nature. So it’s always been socially acceptable to castigate men but not women, because of the implicit understanding that women were just naturally pure”

    Wait, what? Even if we allow any of this to be true, why are the writers/readers of this blog not considering the negative effects of these expectations of “purity”? Being a paragon of virtue doesn’t really sound like a rollicking good time.

    Of course, the comments are even more infuriating:

    “So the next time you find yourself admiring a manly man instead of chastising yourself from being attracted to him (or his manliness) and become filled with self-hate and hatred of men, why don’t you try acting vulnerable or feminine. You might find the results are better than the usual complaining with your girlfriend who always agrees with you or taking it out on your castrated boyfriend.”

    Ah yes, if only I let myself be raped on a regular basis, things would be so much better for everyone.

    This myth that femininity has disappeared just boggles my mind. sigh.

  57. Shelby

    “And it’s also indisputable that men used to be motivated to be honorable men because they felt they got something in return from the women in their lives. Manning up involves some sacrifice, but men didn’t feel like they were the only ones making an effort. Men dressed up, took women on dates and paid, brought home the bacon, took care of their wives, and acted as the rock in the family. In return, they could count on women to look classy and attractive, be charming, cook dinner, take care of the house and kids, and make her man feel like king of the castle.”

    This is a television show. This is Leave it to Beaver and My Three Sons and Bewitched and Brady Bunch and Happy Days and you get the picture and it would appear that these men have actually voluntarily chosen to skew their sense of reality to believe that this type of life really existed outside a tv studio. These were the days when all (white) men were honourable and all (white) women were feminine, except the fat/ugly ones who would always be horny spinsters and the coloured folk only got lines such as “Yes sir” and “No sir” and homosexuality didn’t exist.

    Now these same guys are probably watching more quality tv like Two and a Half Men and Gary Unmarried with the strong patriarchal message that the current crop of feminized wymyn will take all YOUR money and YOUR children and in the end we are all nothing but selfish whores who are shit mothers and who it is real funny to make jokes about inflicting some sort of violence upon. This is comedy gold!

  58. jd

    From the dumb blog: “After all, if you have men opening doors and asking women on real dates, and they’re just laughing in your face, that’s clearly not going to work out too well.”

    Perhaps women are laughing at this husband because they don’t date married men, and they’re too polite to point out that he’s made it more difficult to get in the door by jumping in front of her and then standing there leering.

    I feel bad for the dumb wife. She probably doesn’t realize that a proud tradition of the successful ManlyMan is to trade her in for a 20-year-old the second she sprouts a grey hair.

  59. speedbudget

    After all, if you have men opening doors and asking women on real dates, and they’re just laughing in your face, that’s clearly not going to work out too well.

    This has been bothering me for days. Why would you want to date someone who is just going to laugh in your face? Why not find the kind of chick who enjoys being demeaned and thought less? Wouldn’t that be easier than going through all this personal change so you can swallow a dry martini (gag) and eat your steak at a temperature at which you can’t really enjoy the taste? It just doesn’t seem worth it.

  60. Larkspur

    Hi, norbizness! Nice tactic. I tried and, yay, he didn’t delete my comment that I didn’t post, either. It’s oddly satisfying.

    Meanwhile, speaking of sugar and of feminine appetites (::shudder::), it may be useful, or perhaps painful, to recollect that a woman’s appetite has rarely been something to be celebrated, encouraged, or even left the hell alone so she can just indulge it.

    Like Lord Byron once said:

    “A woman should never be seen eating or drinking, unless it be lobster salad and Champagne, the only true feminine and becoming viands.”

    (They are two very expensive viands, too. We have always aimed to impoverish our man-dates with our appetites.)

  61. Jezebella

    On the topic of foreign-born wives, one commenter over there said, “American women have priced themselves out of the market.” It usually comes down to this when the topic of us “high-maintenance” American man-haters comes up: they think we cost too much. They think wives are purchased. It never occurs to them that some of us are not for sale.

  62. DaisyDeadhead

    This part is an irrational mess (from the blog post):

    Could we perhaps say that equality shouldn’t mean embracing and outdoing men in things that were traditionally considered masculine? That making out with other chicks for attention and lifting your shirt for beads and getting smashed and burping the alphabet and dressing in sweatsuits really has very little to do with being “liberated?”

    Excuse me, but “LIFTING your shirt”? This isn’t analogous to what men do, which is TAKING OFF YOUR SHIRT ALL THE TIME, EVERYWHERE, as men are routinely permitted to do with no negative ramifications. Women have not even approached such “liberation”–so when we do, I’ll let you know.

    And similarly, the “making out with other chicks for attention” is not analogous… the analogy would be MEN MAKING OUT WITH OTHER MEN for attention. (Which you know, I think might be rather refreshing and fun to watch! ;) )

    When women reach the “liberated” point where we get to take our shirts off while you keep them on, and you are making out with guys because WE think it’s hot…. well, then we will be at full “equality”… but until then? Huh?

    These people seem to be a bit confused.

  63. Roz

    Wow. “disillusioned men who think all women are an unappealing mess who are not worth the trouble of dealing with”… Good to know I’m such a trouble to deal with. Sorry sir, that you had to take time out of your terribly hectic work day to deal with lowly, housewife me.

    I would say more, but I need to change out of my sweatpants and put on that lipstick. My husband is due home from real work soon.

  64. Princess Rot

    And it’s also indisputable that men used to be motivated to be honorable men because they felt they got something in return from the women in their lives.

    Therefore they tacitally agree that it is women’s job to hand out cookies to men for being basically decent human beings and not monsters. My takeaway thought is that the authors of this dumb blog and their anti-feminist followers see everyone else as fodder for their egomania, despite their protests about double standards. They deserve to be seen as base, because they really are.

    (That’s three comments and I’ll be shutting my piehole now).

  65. yttik

    “On the topic of foreign-born wives..”

    One bright spot regarding the myth of the docile foreign bride, is that it doesn’t always turn out that way. Women are women all across the globe, (and human too, contrary to popular opinion.) As such, they seldom stay in their designated place for long. I know several men who dreamed of constant adoration and obedience and instead have discovered they married real live women. It’s been rather entertaining.

  66. Jezebella

    Indeed, yttik, I neglected to mention the fact that their fantasy of the Foreign Submissive Exotic Chick is just that: a fantasy. Alas, at the moment, one *can* purchase a foreign-born bride, more or less, but in the end she will turn out to be an actual human being and not an anime character.

  67. Aunty Christ

    For anyone not willing to put in the mind-numbing time necessary to read all of the offensive and awful comments on that offensive and awful article, I present Rayndy P. Valcin II:

    “I would like to see a return of the curtsy. I think it is a great display of womanliness and quite attractive. I’m sure our modern woman would say that it shows a sign of submission, that they shouldn’t have to bow to us, but it is not that at all. Im sure any true man would not mind bowing to a “lady”. I personally do not like to shake hands with a woman, now, that said, a kiss on the back of the hand is acceptable, but i feel that a hand shake should have a nice grip, and reserved for male to male respect.”

    I laughed and laughed. Well done, sir.

  68. Jezebella

    Cheesus. If some random asshole decides to put his LIPS on my SKIN when I try to shake his hand, he’s going to regret it, I tell you what. When, oh when, can we exile these morons to their own island?

  69. Laughingrat

    When, oh when, can we exile these morons to their own island?

    This is an excellent question. The plan might tentatively go thusly:

    Step 1: Buy an island
    Step 2: Purchase a large jetliner
    Step 3: ???
    Step 4: Dump misogynists on island

    Clearly, some money is going to have to change hands here. Start saving those pennies, ladies! Maybe we can have posters and stuff to raise awareness of the project, kinda like the ones they had during WWII about buying war bonds.

  70. Felicity

    In terms of inferiority, men on Island Dumb should be ‘curtseying’ to us if we’re talking about them being the biggest muppets. And hahahahha at modern people curtseying, anyway. Rayndy’s logic hurt to read.

  71. Cathy

    Laughingrat, there’s no way all misogynists will fit on any island – or continent. It would be much easier to follow Steps 1 and 2, and exile ourselves to Savage Death Island. The only problems would be preventing Asshole Invasions and sinking under water as the world warms.

  72. Twobees

    “And it’s also indisputable that men used to be motivated to be honorable men because they felt they got something in return from the women in their lives. Manning up involves some sacrifice, but men didn’t feel like they were the only ones making an effort. Men dressed up, took women on dates and paid, brought home the bacon, took care of their wives, and acted as the rock in the family. In return, they could count on women to look classy and attractive, be charming, cook dinner, take care of the house and kids, and make her man feel like king of the castle.”

    The irony is that honour invovles action for its’ own sake, rather than for expected reward or recognition. These assclowns mistake the usual patriarchal exchange for honour. They remain singularly unable to process any depth of meaning in their actions. They are basically dry humping their way through life. Which explains why the shit they write is so abrasive.

  73. polly styrene

    After all, if you have men opening doors and asking women on real dates

    Do men ask women on fake dates since feminism then?

  74. ElizaN

    My hand just threw up.

  75. Kelly

    Why would you want to date someone who is just going to laugh in your face? Why not find the kind of chick who enjoys being demeaned and thought less?

    Where I live it’s because men want an educated, top earner who is totally submissive at home. She needs to bring 6 figures (payin her fair share) and keep house and care for the kids and be feminine/sexy. She must serve two masters and look good doin it.

  76. Laughingrat

    Cathy, that is an excellent point. Back to the drawing board, then. Let’s all meet to discuss the next step; who’ll bring the required pitcher of margs?

  77. Valerie M

    As any proper Frenchman will tell you, a real gentleman brings his lips near the woman’s hand but never actually kisses. How many of them actually stick to that rule is anybody’s guess.

  78. jd

    I initially got bogged down in symptoms of the larger ill of the dumb blog. The larger ill is two sets of utterly random rules, one for people with vaginas, one for the bepenised.

    But wouldn’t it be nice if one’s unemployed husband (for example…) had dinner ready when one arrived home, and if I — er, one — always called when one was going to be late? Of course, dialing the phone takes somewhat less effort than preparing a delicious and nutritious meal, but surely a ManlyMan is capable of the more difficult tasks normally reserved for the slave classes?

  79. copykatparis

    In some remote corners of Romania the hand-kiss is still practiced. I nearly snatched my hand away when it happened to me. (Damn, anecdote snuck in!)

  80. Butterflywings

    Aunty Christ – *snorts*. In 2009 (and soon to be 2010) some guys aren’t comfortable shaking a woman’s hand?! I shouldn’t still be shocked by such blatant sexism.
    As for hand kissing: EUW. NO. NO. NO. Lip to skin contact ia for people I a. know and b. like. Plus, it’s very patronising.

    Island? Pah. Two words. SCUM Manifesto. Mwah hah hah.

  81. Frumious B.

    @Laughingrat: It’s already been done. They had to use several islands, seven, in fact, they are :North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, and Antarctica. Even then, there wasn’t enough room, and some of them had to be dumped in the minor islands of the Pacific.

  82. PandanCat

    No, no. There’s still a lot of Antarctica we could use for them. If they complain that it’s too cold, we’ll just mock their wussitude and get back on our plane to Savage Death Island.

  83. Jezebella

    Europe isn’t an island. I’m not entirely convinced it’s an actual *continent*. It looks more like an offshoot of Asia on the map. Anyway, it’s high time that the dudes stop getting to dominate all 6 or 7 continents.

  84. Genevieve

    One bright spot regarding the myth of the docile foreign bride, is that it doesn’t always turn out that way. Women are women all across the globe, (and human too, contrary to popular opinion.) As such, they seldom stay in their designated place for long. I know several men who dreamed of constant adoration and obedience and instead have discovered they married real live women. It’s been rather entertaining.

    While I’ve never met anyone who brought a ‘docile, foreign-born wife’ to America, there’s an interesting book about this–Anya Ulinich’s Petropolis. The main character is from a small town in Siberia, comes to America via a mail-order bride service, her husband says things to her like, “I thought you loved doing laundry! That’s what your profile with the agency said!” She gets fed up with how dumb and boring he is and sets off on her own across America looking for her long-lost father. I recommend it.

  85. Jonathan

    @agasaya:

    Notice that they say the woman has to be ‘on board’ for manliness to succeed.

    The antifeminists have a hard time defining “manliness” because they can only define things in relation to men and male experience. However, manliness can only exist within the context of women’s oppression. The rest of “manliness” is just an odious pile of shifting social norms that have been traditionally associated with men who dominate women, but domination is its core.

    The antifeminists aren’t interested in defining manliness, they just want to whitewash it.

  86. Jonathan

    @yttik:

    This is really redundant, but one more time, I’ve never met a woman who was upset because somebody held the door open for her. I’ve never even met a man who didn’t appreciate having the door held open for him. It’s when doors are slammed in your face or on your head that people start to feel like they may not be viewed as full human beings.

    The whole door fit was never about men opening or not opening doors. It was about women not staying behind the doors that men left closed.

  87. Dana

    “And it’s also indisputable that men used to be motivated to be honorable men because they felt they got something in return from the women in their lives. Manning up involves some sacrifice, but men didn’t feel like they were the only ones making an effort. Men dressed up, took women on dates and paid, brought home the bacon, took care of their wives, and acted as the rock in the family. In return, they could count on women to look classy and attractive, be charming, cook dinner, take care of the house and kids, and make her man feel like king of the castle.”

    Spoken like a middle-class, post-Industrial-Age white guy.

    If he were to take a good look at the way anybody NOT in that category actually lives, he’d be horrified.

  88. Jill

    An anecdote about dudely door-opening (i.e. herding) behavior with women:

    I had an older male relative, a pretty well-to-do and genteel motherfucker, who was in the habit of shepherding women through theater lobbies, across streets, and — of course — through doorways. He’d place his hand very, very lightly on your elbow or the small of your back, and exert faint pressure when he wanted you to move. As in, “I deem it safe to cross this street now; please go where I’m herding you.” This behavior was ingrained and subconscious and apparently regarded as gentlemanly or something in his echelon. When I told him, finally, at the age of 22, that he’d better just cut that shit the fuck out with me on accounta it was sexist and patronizing to behave as though I couldn’t make it to my seat at the table without the guiding hand of the patriarch, he was shocked and hurt and couldn’t understand a word of what I was telling him.

  89. Larkspur

    Oh, yeah, that herding behavior. It’s cute when you’re watching your Australian shepherd pup herding autumn leaves, but feeling that steering hand on your very own elbow makes you want to use that elbow in a very aggressive (not assertive) way.

    A million years ago I went out on a few dates with a guy. He was a little older than me, a divorced but courtly sort of gentleman. I broke it off because I feared for my life and limb. He was so intent on opening doors, and walking on the curb-side of the street so that my gown wouldn’t get splashed by the carriages, and pulling my chair out, blah blah blah, and it didn’t matter so much that my shins were getting bruised, and I was getting clipped by the doors, not to mention the whiplash I suffered just trying to figure out where he was at any given moment.

    I didn’t tell him to cut that shit the fuck out with me on accounta it was sexist and patronizing – why bother, I figured, since I didn’t want to go out with him any more anyway – but still, I think he was hurt. Meh. I didn’t kill him, so maybe I made him stronger.

  90. smmo

    Men do the herding thing so they can look at bottoms. Plus the whole “Ta da! My WOMAN!” aspect.

  91. CassieC

    Door opening by males gives me the heeby-jeebies (sp?). But when one objects (or is “demurs” the right expression these days?), it is not clear that the men get it: that their behavior is sexist, rather than that we are crazy for not wanting to have our asses oggled.

  92. Larkspur

    With the door thing, my policy is to do whatever facilitates harmonious to-ing and fro-ing. If someone’s carrying stuff, I’ll open the door for her or him. Usually, I just open the door, go through it, and hold it for the person behind me to grab. If someone opens a door for me, I say thank you. They may have done it because it seemed expeditious in terms of to-ing and fro-ing. And if a guy has done it, it seems expeditious for me to say “Thank you” and keep moving. That way, if he was looking for feminist ire, he doesn’t get none, and if he was looking for a flirty “Oh my, thank you! I reckon chivalry ain’t ded after all, kind sir!” he doesn’t get none of that, either. We just get through the door, and I have time left over for blaming, or coffee.

  93. Kiuku

    Another would-be poor woman Fems up and marries a man for a living, under some misguided traditional sense, which would have her married to the local peasant, then thinks she’s got something over those silly Feminists who actually attempt to merit their livings…so she’s got to write a goddamn how-to.

  94. Antippifs

    Hi e-people, I just completed registering my account and I just wanted to say hi! I’ve lurked around here for a while and finally chose to join.

    I’m a comedian deep down, but my real job is selling real estate. But I’m also making my own home business glass storage jars and that is very exciting :D, to me, anyway!

    So that is a little bit about my life. I am excited to talk with you all and become an active participant in your community. Thanks!

  95. Jill

    Haha, goofy comment gets through the Twisty Spamulators!

  96. Laughingrat

    That one’s nothing, Jill–did you see the one from “beauty” in the pageant thread? That’s a doozy. Surely you let that one through for the amusement of the Blametariat?

  97. Jill

    Is that the one that called me an ugly old cunt? Yeah, I saw it. Joke’s on her, because I’m fuckin’ hot, yeah?

  98. Comrade PhysioProf

    What kinda fucking dumbass tries to build their Internet fortune on glass storage jars?

  99. Jill

    Certainly you are aware, Comrade, that plastic storage jars cause cancer? Eco-health-nuts are chucking out their carcinogenic Tupperware in droves, but they still need containers to put their homemade roasted kimchee aioli in. This jarpreneur character has seen the future of storage, and that future is glass.

  100. Comrade PhysioProf

    This is why I have no Internet fortune.

  101. Interrobang

    Antifeminists define masculinity subtractively — whatever the sex class is, the owner class cannot be, by definition. Therefore, if women can be strong, men are automatically weak, and if women become actual human beings, men cease to exist.

    Canadians do doors differently; everyone holds doors for everyone else. It’s one of those weird kinda formal politeness things that only Canadians and Japanese people really understand, I guess.

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