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Apr 23 2010

Spinster aunt reads boobquake emails

Hey folks, you can stop sending me the “boobquake” alert. Consider me apprised.

What’s a “boobquake”? A reaction to some dude’s proclamation that saucy women showing cleavage are responsible for the recent catastrophic earthquakes, “Boobquake” is blogger Jen McCreight’s idea of “a boob joke.”

Damn, those are always hilarious!

McCreight’s boob joke was this: since that fundamentalist dude has a misogynist fantasy idea about the power of mammary glands over global seismic activity, let’s show him he’s wrong! McCreight calls for all women to wear their most cleavagey outfit at an appointed hour, then sit back and wait for the Big Quake. When it doesn’t come, we can all have a big laugh at the fundamentalist dude’s expense!

McCreight was surprised when about 47.876 million people joined her boob joke on Facebook, largely in the shape of helpful dudes offering to photograph the event.

Says McCreight, wishing to deflect feminist fury:

“I just want to apologize if this comes off as demeaning toward women. To be honest, it started as silly joke that I hurriedly fired off since I was about to miss the beginning of House. I never thought it would get the attention it did. If I would have known, I would have spent more time being careful about my wording.”

We’ve all said stupid things on the Internet. But when you say stupid things about encouraging women to protest oppression by capitulating to Dude Nation’s fondest desire, and then blame it on a compulsion to watch a stupid misogynist TV show, all I can say is, ewww.

Naturally, because it involves a woman urging other women to show us their tits, McCreight is being interviewed by national and global media.

Ewww.

I conclude that McCreight omitted, in her haste to watch the beginning of, perhaps, “American Idol,” to proof-read her statement, forgetting to change the spine-wrenching “if I would have known” to the economical and correct “had I known.”

Double-ewww.

235 comments

2 pings

  1. tinfoil hattie

    At least she didn’t say, “if I would of known.”

  2. buttercup

    TFH, perish the thought!

  3. Sarah

    I feel sort of sorry for Jen because, you know… oh wait, no I don’t. She’s not not accepting interviews with national media (despite her lack of time to finish homework and watch television). While I certainly don’t think she planned it out in any serious fashion, I also don’t think she considered the implications of asking women to tart up in an attempt to disprove some nutjob’s crazy idea about the power of boobies.

    I really don’t know much about her overarching ideas or history, so I all I can derive thus far is what I get from this statement:

    Maybe I am failing at Feminism 101, or maybe I’m just taking a different approach.

    So many people who DO actually fail at feminism just call it “a different approach.” The different approach of what, giggling coyly and abusing youth and beauty instead of taking on serious issues seriously? Taking your husband’s last name not because you aren’t a feminist, but because you “love him” and want to show it to the world? Expressing your individuality by wearing red lipstick a shade off from the woman sitting next to you? Stripping or burlesque-ing because you’re soooo sexually empowered? Please.

  4. feral

    I was invited to the Boobquake event on facebook and, of course, declined. The description of the event read something along the lines of “help us fight supernatural thinking and the oppression of women by showing your jugs.” I’d rather not fight supernatural thinking with dichotomous thinking–capitulate to fundamentalist religious views or capitulate to patriarchal demands; these are your options. Talk about a complete lack of creativity.

  5. dillene

    If I thought that the Iranian guy who started this whole fiasco was the target audience of this display, and that such a display would truly unnerve and terrify him, then I might -*MIGHT*- consider some of the merits. However, this has devolved into a free show for Western dudes. And I don’t know that a display of American mammaries would be duly intimidating to the Iranian guy. Non merci.

  6. yttik

    Bibles in exchange for porn was another empowerful bright idea to protest religion. I am also thrilled to see women being led around on leashes to protest animal cruelty. College now days is such femfabulous fun, much like Girls Gone Wild goes political.

    Jen has my sympathy. She’s going to face a shit storm for her lack of awareness. Men will pretend to like her, feminists will be pissed, people will blame her for disparaging Muslims, and the media will feed off her carcass. IBTP.

  7. Antoinette Niebieszczanski

    So what’s the point? If she thinks this is going to make the fundie-guy or any of his followers rethink their ideology, she’s crazier than he is. If it’s supposed to be a joke (on whom?), I utterly fail to see the humor. If it’s supposed to make an ass out of fundie-guy, well, it’s redundant. Maybe I am stupid, but I just don’t get it.

  8. tinfoil hattie

    Taking your husband’s last name not because you aren’t a feminist, but because you “love him” and want to show it to the world?

    Or, in my case, because you are a feminist but you were too intimidated by your scary mother-in-law, and did it because you didn’t (then) have the courage to NOT change it?

    We live in patriarchy. All women acquiesce to patriarchy every day – some with bigger regret than others.

    Don’t blame the women. Blame the system.

  9. Christina

    1. Ms. McCreight is giving National interviews. Google “Boobquake” or “Jennifer McCreight” using the News browser of Google.

    2. She does not watch American Idol. Willingly. I know this personally.

    3. This is a simple experiment of the scientific method by a geneticist who just so happens to be a female. This is not a casting call for Joe Francis.

    4. Get over yourself. Your comments are absurd and completely off-point.

    5. Don’t worry; I’ll never call you for an interview, as you just happened to blacklist yourself from a little New York daily of which you just might have heard. Best of wishes to you. You most certainly need them.

  10. speedbudget

    Sounds about as effective as the “What color bra are you wearing to support breast cancer” BS.

  11. katipo

    Let’s hack it. Convince all the participants to use the media attention to protest “beauty” and violence against women.

    How can you make objectifying women as uncomfortable as possible for “helpful dude photographers?”

    My first thought is silent cleavagey women in gorilla masks holding statistic-y signs – “A woman is raped every 6 minutes in the US,” “Is this what you want?” – but that might just be my lack of imagination showing through.

    How brilliant would it be if this is what “Blag Hag” has been planning all along?

  12. Jill

    Best of wishes to you. You most certainly need them.

    Thank you so much! You know, until I read those last few words of your comment, I was beginning to think you didn’t care about me at all.

  13. Fede

    Ah, the old “different approach” “argument” – ewww!

    The joke, such as it is, is on women yet again. No surprises there.

  14. Pinko Punko

    Christina fights for the subjunctive by putting her foot on the neck of IBTP. Pfffft to Christina.

  15. Sylvie

    Further on the patriarchy’s notion of cause and effect. This time from the BBC (because I know you love them so).

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00rvbsj/The_Worlds_Most_Dangerous_Place_for_Women/

    Final paragraph of programme information.

  16. Notorious Ph.D.

    I applaud your use of the subjunctive. Would that it were used more often.

  17. Jezebella

    I doubt anyone named Christina – on account of it’s a female name – has the power to blacklist anyone from the New York Post. The news industry, such as it is, is still dudeville. The invocation of the All-Mighty Scientific Method is a hoot, though, I’ll give her points for that.

    I, too, Feral, was invited on facebook to join boobquake. As my middle name is “Buzzkill” I promptly declined and explained why I was Not For It.

  18. Sarah

    @tinfoil hattie
    Oh crap, I didn’t mean to blame the ladies, although I realize it might’ve sounded that way. I just wanted to point out how we’re taught to internalize doublethink. Like, “this ridiculous patriarchal tradition is important for X totally illogical reason.” I appease the patriarchy every day in the name of “looking professional,” when I know damn well that part of looking professional is looking feminine, which has nothing to do with professionalism. But I do it anyway. I can either IBTP, or blame myself. I choose to BTP.

  19. yttik

    “2. She does not watch American Idol. Willingly. I know this personally.”

    That’s a shame because Crystal Bowersox is rather awesome. This has been a season of genuine artistry, where Bowersox appears to be somewhat resistant to the idea of being portrayed as a sexual commodity first and a musician second. It also helps that she likes to sing Aretha Franklin and Janis Joplin songs.

    In fact, I would suggest that Jen watch American Idol. Last week there was Ellen of course, Annie Lennox, Wanda Sykes, Queen Latifah, and several other women who at least provide us with some much needed music and comedy to accompany our trips down the rabbit hole and through the patriarchy.

  20. The Nerd

    Some people shame women into covering their cleavage by claiming they cause earthquakes. Others try to shame women into covering their cleavage by calling them bad feminists.

  21. Megan

    OMG you guys, wait! We’re totally as bad as the woman-haters whom we profess to oppose. By not equally bestowing the credentials of “good feminism” on all women and their perfectly valid choices, we are committing an atrocity against womankind. Woe, this feminism is a false idol of puritan sexy-lady-hating!

  22. Cycles

    When a mysogynist tells me not to do something, my first, infantile, gut-based reaction is want to do it anyway and rub his face in the fact that I’m doing it without his permission.

    Thus I wish the boobquake could have gone down like the Rubber Rose takeover in “Even Cowgirls Get The Blues”

    When the revolutionaries have retreated about thirty yards, they stop. With astonishing rapidity, they unbuckle, unbutton and unzip and step out of their jeans and underpants. Then, nude from the waist down, thatched pubises thrust forward, up front and leading the way, they begin to advance.

    The Countess’s grin goes down his throat like bathwater down a drain.

    GLORIA
    Better reach for your spray cans!

    JELLY
    Not one of these pussies has been washed in a week!

    Rather pale, his nose twitching, the Countess drops the caviar canapé he has been holding.

    ON COME THE COWGIRLS, pelvises pumping, laying down what the trembling Countess believes to be a devastating barrage of musk.

  23. feral

    @ the Nerd: I couldn’t care less if women expose their cleavage, and I’m sure as shit not going to tell anyone to cover up. I’ve been known to expose my own from time to time. However, women doing so as a political statement, proclaiming it an “empowering choice” in a patriarchal society I do find laughable. Your inability to distinguish two separate arguments represents what I previously mentioned: dichotomous thinking.

  24. yttik

    The boobquake thing has now hit the international media, some reporting as many as 250,000 women signing up to take part.

    I realize I am a humorless feminist, but is it wise to antagonize a part of the world we are perched on the brink of war with? A place where women can be executed for showing their ankles or beheaded for having an affair? I’m wondering how the Muslim world will respond to western women mocking their religion and wagging a few hundred thousand boobs at them? I understand the urge to humiliate this cleric, but diplomacy is a delicate thing.

  25. Kiuku

    actually men are causing the seismic activity and earthquakes by drilling for oil so they can work at meaningless jobs and drive their cars to the jobs on paved roads so they can each own one woman and replicate themselves.

    yea some Imam recently blamed promiscuous muslim women for the earthquakes for steering the poor helpless men astray from their path of righteous replication.

  26. Comrade PhysioProf

    Don’t worry; I’ll never call you for an interview, as you just happened to blacklist yourself from a little New York daily of which you just might have heard.

    Jill, I can hear you sobbing from here!

  27. Comrade Svilova

    Regarding “House,” that’s the perfect garnish to this ridiculous story.

    I initially hoped that the TV show was going to do something interesting with the Powerful Female Head of Hospital, but the plot has definitely disappointed (major understatement). Not only that, but the way she is photographed is almost unbelievable (except that we live in a Patriarchy). I haven’t seen shots that exploitative in anything but so-called soft-core porn.

    (I watch “House” fairly regularly, but it’s for work; I’m working on a paper on privacy rights in contemporary society and the desire we have to continuously investigate, expose, and blame people for their secrets. “House” is fantastically terrifying in its devotion to brutally wresting people’s secrets from them in the name of It’s For Their Own Good. Kind of like encouraging women to expose their bodies For The Good Of The Fatherland Against the Evil Enemy.)

  28. Pinko Punko

    Also, House is on continually, so it’s is hardly an excuse.

    This situation is just one of an infinite amount of no win except for dudes fighting over the best way to control the “resource” of lady parts. On one side we have the personal possession model, on the other the every dude’s given right model. Plus there’s always the chance of being criticized from both sides.

    It is terrible.

  29. Cath of Canberra

    It’s another one of those cunning no win situations. Cover up to appease the patriarchal religious nuts, show off to please the patriarchal dudes? So we may as well just do what we damn well please.

    I’m not too upset that Blaghag has decided to deliberately piss off one of those patriarchal groups. Even at the expense of making the other go “hur hur boobies”.

    Yes means yes, no means no, however we dress, wherever we go. That’s *however we dress*, remember?

  30. Occasional lurker

    I seem to remember some nude anti-war protests a while back. All women, of course; for reasons I don’t quite get, the nudity was supposed to be the anti-war statement. Before that, it was topless anti-logging protests. I think the idea was to show your free, wild, uninhibited, feminine connection to nature and shame the lumberjack dudes into not cutting down the old-growth redwoods.

    Do the people who admire this kind of thing ever wonder why there’s no Men’s Auxiliary Assless Chaps For Peace March? No, of course not.

  31. Mar Iguana

    Kiuku, I like your style.

  32. OVERLADY

    I just have to tell you that I L*OV**E reading your writing. SO MUCH LOVE. You are like unto a brain massage.

  33. Alexa

    Christina where you drunk when writing that?

    ‘Bibles in exchange for porn was another empowerful bright idea to protest religion…’

    I don’t get sexism being paired with lots of liberal effort nowadays. Maybe I’m too angry to think about it, but I don’t understand the motive, what they discuss in the PETA campaigns boardroom when they package women up as meat.

    I’m guessing the rough agenda is ‘unite as men against women, not men against men’.

  34. tinfoil hattie

    you just happened to blacklist yourself from a little New York daily of which you just might have heard.

    THE HORROR! Then we take it all back! Men rule! Girls drool! We’re sorry! Pleeeeeeeease love us!

  35. tinfoil hattie

    Aaaah, Sarah, don’t let my “BUT WHAT ABOUT ME?” crap get to ya. It’s MY fault I didn’t change my name, and that’s why it bugs me. Not because of anything you said.

    Sorry. I shouldn’t have jumped all over your comment, because I know what you’re trying to say. And we’re all doomed to comply, aren’t we?

  36. lawbitch

    Anyone know how old the creator is? She must be young since she has time to lounge around watching television. She will understand the patriarchy better when her patriarchy-approved “hotness” disappears. It vanishes so quickly in our society. May she join the revolution and drink margaritas!

    I regularly piss off Muslim dudes by wearing my workout shorts in public, which I will continue to do. Look at my legs of doom! HA!

  37. Alexa

    I think the New York daily needs to be informed it employed an over- zealous nutjob into its ranks (who likely suffers from delusions of grandeur and doesn’t work there).

    Lol at christina’s concept of a genuine scientific experiment. I smell either troll or whopping idiot who thinks she has any power at all in the patriarchy she defends.

  38. Lin

    My word, this is by far the most hostile environment imaginable. You call yourselves feminists, yet cannot take a joke about boobs? You take offense at someone watching a popular TV show? Instead of seeing the humour behind her idea, which started as a joke, you gang up against her. You present exactly the kind of image that makes it easy for a patriarchal society to ridicule feminism: embittered, snarky, humourless bitching. Seriously, lighten up. And I highly doubt Iran will nuke everyone over a show of boobs.

  39. Nell Gwynne

    I was unaware that being a feminist entailed following a very long list of rules about acceptable ways to poke fun at men preoccupied with women’s “modesty”, along with avoiding watching House. To whom do I return my feminist card?

  40. kristyn joy

    “Men’s Auxiliary Assless Chaps For Peace March”

    Aren’t ALL chaps assless, by definition? They are basically assless, crotchless pants.
    Not a-pickin’ on ya, lurker, just musing aloud and trying to clarify some things.

    But this is a great idea, regardless. Not because I personally want to look at 1,000 bare male asses parading down the street, but because it’s about time the old go-around … well, came around.

  41. Jim

    Wow – you might cut this woman some slack. She is a smart, atheist woman scientist who actually had a point and never envisioned this buzz. It was an Iranian cleric who announced that earthquakes are brought about by the immodest dress and behavior of women. Jen’s response was to say – well, that is an empirically verifiable statement so let’s put it to the test. She is gathering baseline data this weekend to compare against Monday’s “event”.
    It was a mocking response to an absurdist put down of women. Her response shows a sense of humor. Where’s yours?

  42. humanbein

    As long as misogynists rule the world, the gold standard for news will always be “What’s gonna make my dick hard today?”

  43. Jane

    1) Jen’s not doing this to empower women, she’s performing a scientific study and testing the priest’s claim that immodestly dressed women cause earthquakes.

    2) if you wish to be take more seriously, using “ewww” makes you sound like some shrill-voiced teenager finding a dead possum.

    3) judging someone based on what they watch on TV is a bit juvenile. Unless all you watch is anti-patriarchal television I don’t think that judging her for enjoying the humour of Hugh Laurie is all that appropriate. You sound like Fox News when you home in on the little points without reading all the facts.

  44. Occasional lurker

    Although it is technically redundant, the phrase “assless chaps” has entered the language as an idiom, because of a certain contingent that likes to wear them without any jeans underneath.

    Personally, I like the ASSonance with “chaps,” not to mention the alliteration with “auxiliary.”

    Poetic license, okay?

  45. Heather

    Yikes, where did all these “get a sense of humor!” trolls come from?

  46. Jezebella

    Lin, you show a real lack of imagination if you think *this* is a hostile environment. Here’s a scientific experiment for you: start a feminist blog, and then watch as the hostile trolls, threatening emails, and vilification roll in. That would be a step up in hostility. Then maybe you could join a male-dominated profession and see what that’s like. It can get a whole lot worse from there.

  47. kristyn joy

    Hee hee, yeah, lurker, I gotcha and I love it. I was just giggling pretty hard at the existence of “assless chaps” (they are, in fact, assless! no matter how you slice it!), at the mental image of the parade, and yes, at the ASSonance — which was greatly appreciated over here at the Fortress of Creative Language, aka Joyville.

    Since I don’t find humor in hurting others, I find it in purposefully taking people’s statements seriously and then making purposefully naive or silly statements about it. Which is directed more at the “feminists don’t have a sense of humor” crowd than at lurker or any of the other blamers.

  48. Comrade PhysioProf

    Has any good ever come of typing “wow” in the comments to a blog?

  49. FemDoc

    Seems to me that the only posts that show an amazing lack of humor are the ones defending Jen McCreight and the ones pointedly asking “where’s your sense of humor, you bitchy ‘feminists’?”

    All the radfem posts are actually quite funny, as are Jill’s comments.

    Like everything else, the P has the last word on what constitutes “humor”, and anything a feminist says will never qualify, since we have a tendency to point out that “humor” at the expense of an oppressed class is often times just not funny. Dammit, we’re just wet blankets.

    “House” is probably the most absurd medical show I’ve ever had the misfortune to watch while trapped on an airplane for 12 hours. Of course, I might find it more humorous, and indeed more compelling, if Hugh Laurie were forced to wear assless chaps. Or would I be called out by the anti-feminists for laughing at a disabled guy (forgetting, for the moment, that he is actually a white male actor PLAYING a disabled guy)? You know, a feminist just can’t win. IBTP.

  50. Amananta

    Oh no! I never before realized some people might take offense to feminism and think we nice ladies are HOSTILE and LACK A SENSE OF HUMOR! Never, ever before have I been accused of such an unladylike trait! I think I might faint. After I recover, I shall certainly write a nicely worded letter of apology on pink, rose-scented sparkly Barbie paper to every person I may have offended, since I realize that if I do not, I might have doomed women’s rights across the globe for having dared agreed with such sharply worded criticisms!

    Just kidding! Actually I think I sprained my eyeballs rolling them after reading the scolding, self-righteous comments above that accuse women who refuse to sign up for demeaning themselves on demand to be anti-science and anti-woman. Also, I laugh all the time while reading this blog – maybe it’s YOU who lack a sense of humor.

  51. FemDoc

    Ha! I forgot about “shrill”! Shrill, humorless, hairy, man-hating feminists. Ewwww!!!!!

  52. feral

    The word “shrill” always makes me think of the word “shrew.” Perhaps we should add that to growing insults applied to feminists who express concern about such meaningless bullshit as effective political strategy.

  53. jaded

    So I’m supposed to wear push-up bras and wait for the boobquake to happen while the omnipresent patriarchal douchebag sits and ogles my boobies? What was the part where women’s empowerment factors in? I missed the manifesto while securing my extra-tight boob-show contraption.

  54. Cath of Canberra

    If I have to take sides in this, I’m against the patriarchal dude who wants to force all women to wear tents.

  55. speedbudget

    I still don’t get why sexualizing women is something professed feminists support TO THE TEETH.

    I know. That was shrill of me.

    Perhaps those of you younguns could read this and find out that whether it’s burqas or boobs, it’s all one and the same in the patriarchy.

  56. phio gistic

    “Liiiiiiighten up!”

    The plaintive wail of those who can’t defend their arguments with reason.

  57. Fliss

    I love being a bitter, man hating feminist who adheres to hundreds of unspoken rules writing on this blog.

    ‘Get a sense of humour’, however, could you be more wrong. I laugh at people like you, day in, day out.

    Who else but the high school bully says ‘they needed a sense of humour’ – usually to the kid he’s just beaten up who tells teacher. I think the humour referred to by bullying anti- feminists is in appealing to the patriarchy. Making your feminist point, by doing something p2k approved. Humour, voila!

    This has nothing to do with the offence at veiled women. If it’s patriarchy orchestrated, it’s most likely the offence at non-P2k-compliant women. We have a right to *see* women’s boobs, as opposed to you have no right to cover them. If the whole point in Iran covering women by the book was to make a stand *against objectification* there’d be genuine Western protests left, right and centre.

    Anti -feminism is socially condoned bullying, a topic I’ve just written an essay about.

  58. Fliss

    I know phio gistic, talk about making an unashamed point of being morons.

  59. tinfoil hattie

    My goodness, I didn’t realize I would have to show my breasts to an internet chorus of dudes hollering, “SHOW US YOUR TITS” in order to scientifically prove that women sans burqas do not cause earthquakes.

    I shall exchange my feminist card for a sense-of-humor card immediately.

    Thank you, o internet defenders of feminism, for setting me straight! I consider myself truly enlightened.

  60. Comrade Svilova

    Also: the hectoring to “get a sense of humor already” is not really a newsflash to radfems. I’ve only identified as a radical feminist for a year or two, and it’s one of the most common things I hear as I’m going about my normal daily activities. So for all those who feel that they’re actually making a point by telling radfems that something’s a joke: thanks for the redundancy. If we actually cared about trying to see humor in what you find funny, we would have tried that eons ago when the first hundred or so P2K-compliant folks informed us about The True Nature Of Comedy.

    And regarding “House” and the Dreadful Crime of Taking Small Things Too Seriously, see Tekanji’s post “Debunking the Myth of Frivolity” from May 2006.

  61. feral

    Fliss, I fully agree with your conceptualization of anti-feminism as socially-condoned bullying. Do you write a blog or have your paper available for public reading? Or, could you say more here? It would contribute to a great discussion in response to some of the comments posted here.

  62. yttik

    “And I highly doubt Iran will nuke everyone over a show of boobs.”

    Of course not, but then again we’re all tucked safely behind the military industrial complex, so it really isn’t about us, is it? I was thinking of the consequences women in the Middle East might face since they are the ones who usually pay the price for religious and political conflicts. Boobquake combined with Cartoon Mohammed day are intended to mock and ridicule people’s religious beliefs. Normally I support acts of religious mockery, except when the bombs are already dropping, the territories have been drawn, and the men hold all the cards.

    I realize it’s rather humorless but I to want to see a reduction of bloodshed in the region. Religious pissing contests never end well. Sending in un-manned drones is bad enough, shall we all mock their Gods and call them stupid, too?

  63. mike

    “She will understand the patriarchy better when her patriarchy-approved “hotness” disappears. It vanishes so quickly in our society.”

    well, i see your presumption and raise you my beautiful 45-year-old girlfriend.

    yes, i have testes, but no, i am not trying to shut down anything, or (god forbid) start mansplaining, especially about such a ridiculous stunt as boobquake. tear it the fuck apart, by all means. but this one tidbit, reveling in one female blogger’s inevitable slide into ugly old ugliness; well not only is it totally false (beautiful older women abound, perhaps in all places but texas), but it’s also incongruous in such an otherwise thoughtful environment.

  64. Comrade Svilova

    Yttik: Another problem with ridiculing the religious beliefs of Muslims and/or the patriarchy of Islamic/Arab societies is that Westerners (and especially Western, Christian men) can come to believe that by deconstructing the harmful beliefs of the Other they have absolved themselves from having to deal with the harmful beliefs of their own society.

    Basically, “boobquake” is saying “endorse Western patriarchal norms (accessibility of women’s bodies) to prove that you object to the patriarchal norms endorsed by the Other.”

    If we Western women want to mock patriarchy, let’s mock the patriarchy we know. (I’m using “we” to refer to Western women since it seems that McCreight is such; I’m not suggesting that all Blamers are Western women.) Mocking the Other only suggests that patriarchy is Not Our Problem.

  65. Alice

    As a skeptic, I see where this idea came from. Generally I support that kind of thinking. Scientific process overcoming superstitious thinking and all that.

    But that was my second thought. The first one was something along the lines of what was above: Wait– I’m supposed to protest oppression by capitulating to Dude Nation’s fondest desire? No thanks.

  66. Jill

    Basically, “boobquake” is saying “endorse Western patriarchal norms (accessibility of women’s bodies) to prove that you object to the patriarchal norms endorsed by the Other.”

    Precisely! That’s what’s so hilarious about this joke!

    Oh, wait.

  67. Jodie

    Fliss, I’d enjoy reading that, too.

  68. Kiuku

    yea western patriarchy is dressing up the woman’s body to make it an appendage of men, their so-called sexual impulses. Their patriarchy is to completely hide the woman’s body, because of their so called sexual impulses.

    The underlying reason for both of these is the same: disguise male inferiority.

    They absolutely have an inferiority complex. If a woman’s body is tangent to them, in any way, it quells that inferiority complex. Nothing infuriates the male mind than a woman’s body that has nothing to do with him.

  69. Kiuku

    Is there actually more violence against women, rape included, where they are totally covered, then in Western culture where the sexualization and male proxying of women is rampant. Respect for women as human beings seems to be the prelude to a lawful society and stable economy, and women’s rights and freedom from rape, rather than what they are or aren’t wearing.

  70. Kiuku

    whenever men bring up how bad women have got it in afghanistan as a way to take credit for progressiveness, I just bring up Sweden, and kindly explain to them that women determine a stable economy.

  71. Amananta

    Why do I suspect no women over the age of 25 or over the weight of about 150 or with anything less than perfect porn-star breasts are invited to this, anyway?

    While I’m not suggesting it, I think it would be pretty funny if a lot of non-patriarchally-approved-as-beautiful women bared their breasts for boobquake: older women, heavier women, women with very small breasts, women with stretchmarks from nursing, etc. Can you imagine the whining that would ensue? All the lip service Dude nation gives to “freedom” and “being okay with your body and sexuality” only applies to women who fit in their narrow definition of “hot”. The rest of us they would happily see covered up with burqas so we don’t offend their delicate sense of aesthetics.

    I’ve yet to see some Dude earnestly talking a 40+ year old woman into being okay enough with her body to show her tits.

  72. Kelsey B.

    The leering, whistling, and creepy comments that I get in public space all the time have the same intended purpose as the stifling clothes that are inflicted upon Middle Eastern women. All patriarchal groups are just slightly more or less barely tolerable points on a bullshit continuum to me.

    [And no, trolls, I'm not saying that I "have it as bad" as oppressed women in Middle Eastern countries, so you can kindly can the comments about how Western feminists need to stop whining and concentrate on things that really matter, i.e. the things that men tell them to care about.]

  73. Jezebella

    Kindly alert me when the Men in Speedos for [Peace/the Environment/Animal Rights/et al.] Parade begins. I’m all for it. Let them prance their shiny asses in front of the cameras if their cause is so all-fired important to them. I do hope they’ll all make sure they’re ripped, fit, and oiled up so as to make for a pleasant viewing experience. No uggos, please!

  74. yttik

    On a more positive note, there are a handful of people locally who have signed up for the Walk a Mile in Her Shoes Campaign.

    http://www.walkamileinhershoes.org/

  75. polly

    Jen’s not doing this to empower women, she’s performing a scientific study and testing the priest’s claim that immodestly dressed women cause earthquakes.

    Really? Shouldn’t she have a control group in that case? (Science 101).

  76. feral

    yttik, we just held a Walk a Mile event here. It was a lot of fun, despite the cold and rain, and we were pleased with the turnout.

  77. ew_nc

    Methinks Christina = Ms. McCreight.

    @Cycles – That’s one of my favorite excerpts from Even Cowgirls Get the Blues.

  78. Kiuku

    Amananta, you made me think of something funny. We should start public breast-feeding-quake day.

  79. Tigs

    @Comrade PhysioProf: wow, just wow…

  80. Alexa

    Jim is grim. Can’t believe such non- contributive crap got processed here.

  81. Hedgepig

    I’m going to be chuckling all day at Lin’s comment. “You call yourselves feminists, yet cannot take a joke about boobs.”
    It’s a good thing I’m a humourless feminist, or I’d be laughing so hard at everything I wouldn’t be able to get the housework done.

  82. wiggles

    The Muslim cleric didn’t say anything about boobs or cleavage. His stupid statement was about women dressing immodestly. An Iranian cleric’s standards of modesty are pretty damn easy to defy in the western world. The guy’s talking about Iranian women who put their head scarves back an extra half-inch. A knee-length nun’s habit would be sufficiently immodest for this “experiment.”

  83. Neena

    “Basically, “boobquake” is saying “endorse Western patriarchal norms (accessibility of women’s bodies) to prove that you object to the patriarchal norms endorsed by the Other.” ”

    You put it so perfectly. I’ve been having a hard time putting my feelings about this business into words BUT THERE YOU GO.

  84. Twobees

    Does anyone really think this is a “scientific” issue that needs investigating? The cleric who believes women are responsible for geophysical events isn’t interested in (or capable of) scientific explanation.

    I’m guessing he wouldn’t mind a peek at the ‘experiment’, though.

  85. Katherine

    A propos of nothing very much, the cleric in question didn’t even say “boobs cause earthquakes” – he said “immodest dress causes men to go all funny which causes earthquakes” (to paraphrase).

    So a “scientific” study to disprove this notion by showing boobs is, well, I can’t even be bothered to go any further because the whole thing is laughable (in the sense that it makes me want to cry).

  86. Katherine

    And does anyone know whay any actual Iranian women have to say about all of this?

  87. iamlegs

    Speedbudget, thank you so much for posting that article.

    Your comment plus the whole men-in-wedding-dresses thread from a few days ago, have made me understand the relationship between how shopping is expected to be the sole female recreation, and how alienating an experience of buying clothes to fit one’s body can be.

    We are expected to change ourselves and our needs to fit the clothes, and shopping is an experience that reinforces this ideology of shame and not-good-enough-ness.

    When actually, clothes should fit us and our needs, shape themselves to our real body and help us feel attractive and confident.

    She ends the article with:
    “How can you stage a credible political demonstration and shout in the streets that your human rights have been violated when you cannot find the right skirt?”

    When she says ‘the right skirt’, I believe that she means, “clothes that help me feel like the beautiful human being that I am, so that I can feel confident to assert the human being that I am to the world.”

  88. speedbudget

    Katherine: Interesting you say that about how the men go all funny THEN the earthquakes happen. As usual, the men are at fault, but everyone blames the women. So really, this “scientific” experiment is shot in the foot, because notice how all the dudes have gone all funny already. We can’t control for idiotic men, can we?

    Another example of if the men would just control themselves, the world would be a better place.

  89. Jill

    Can’t believe such non- contributive crap got processed here.

    I’m just one aunt, Alexa. Subsequent to the comparing-public-schools-to-concentration-camps dust-up of Aught Nine, my secretary, Phil, now declines absolutely to monitor blog comments, so I’m on my own, and occasionally one slips by me.

  90. Antoinette Niebieszczanski

    Ha! The Public Schools Compared to Concentration Camps Dust-up of Aught Nine weren’t nothing compared with the BJ War of Aught Five. Or was it Six?

  91. nails

    I have seen boobquake pimped as some skeptic event. I do not think skepticism means testing out every silly religious idea that is spread around; such a thing isn’t possible or productive. Rational people already know slutty attire does not make for more earthquakes. This doesn’t matter to most skeptics, because most skeptics are old honky dudes. So there is a serious lack of feminism in the skeptical community, and that is actually why I started blogging in the first place. It skeeves me out that this thing has gotten so much attention.

  92. vionveritas

    Bad news, everybody. There was a 6.9 magnitude earthquake in Taiwan today, “boobquake day.” I guess the universe really does tend toward maximum irony.

  93. polly

    What nails said. There was a “mass homeopathic overdose” over here, when people went and swallowed whole cartons of homeopathic pills, which actually had some point because said remedies are sold for quite a bit of cash in shops, and people are being ripped off. So if you can stop people wasting their money, you’ve done them a favour.

    But since nobody except the credulous (who are pretty much beyond hope anyway) believes what the religious dude said, what exactly is this “experiment” going to do? Allow women to carry on showing their cleavage? Big gain for science!

    I also note that nobody seems to feel a need to protest other stuff that happens in Iran. Which is usually a bit worse than a dude spouting rubbish (a phenomenon that is hardly confined to Iran).

  94. Boad

    I’m conflicted because I laughed when I heard of the whole ‘boobquake’ thing. Yes, it’s encouraging exactly what the patriarchy would want anyway, but… so what? It’s a silly act in response to a silly statement. Oh no! Bared cleavage! I’m not going to tell anybody to get a sense of humour, but I’m perplexed at this kind of response.

    Then again I’m probably biased since I love House. Excuse the hell out of me.

  95. kristyn joy

    “All the lip service Dude nation gives to “freedom” and “being okay with your body and sexuality” only applies to women who fit in their narrow definition of “hot”. The rest of us they would happily see covered up with burqas so we don’t offend their delicate sense of aesthetics.”

    Exactly. The fact that “some dudes want ladies to wear tents” is basically the same thing, except filtered through culture-blindness.

    Guys goin’ funny? I know! Blame the women.

  96. Comrade Svilova

    @ Boad

    “Yes, it’s encouraging exactly what the patriarchy would want anyway, but… so what?”

    Seriously? You’re going to post on IBTP that conforming to the demands of Patriarchy deserves no more than a shrug, and then suggest that because YOU laughed out loud about “boobquake” other people should appreciate the humor in it too? “I’m not going to tell anybody to get a sense of humour, but I’m perplexed at this kind of response.” You’re perplexed to find Patriarchy-blaming on a site called “I Blame the Patriarchy”?

    I think you may be reading the wrong blog.

  97. mearl

    Great news, everybody! DEMOCRACY JUST KICKED IN! Family Guy may not get the Radical Feminist Values Award of 2010, but every once in awhile, Seth McFarlane makes fun of society in a way that is just spot on. Go to 1:36 to see what I mean.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlIm-riMN6Q

    Three words: Bikini Car Wash.

  98. Boad

    Women wear tank tops and low cut shirts all the time for a myriad of different reasons. It’s hot outside and they’re more comfortable being the most obvious one right now (it’s almost summer…) and somebody saying ‘Hey let’s all wear what we’d wear at some point anyway in a juvenile little prank response to a silly statement’ isn’t the end of the world. I’m not saying people should appreciate the humour in it at all, I’m saying they shouldn’t be biting this woman’s head off for a stupid joke.

    But you’re right, I’m on the wrong blog because I disagree with you. I guess I’m not a “proper” feminist, pardon my facade.

  99. SargassoSea

    If I hear or see the words boob and quake in the same sentence in the next 48 hours I may, literally, faint.

  100. Comrade Svilova

    Boad, it’s certainly not my place to say who or what comments are welcome on this blog; it just seems to me that if you’re uncomfortable with certain norms of modern life being identified and critiqued as patriarchal, this blog (and especially threads like this, which address seemingly “trivial” aspects of patriarchy) might not provide the most satisfying reading.

    Women do wear revealing clothing all the time. But why do (some of us) wear specific fashions which fetishize breasts or other secondary sexual characteristics? And yes, warm weather is approaching in the (Northern) hemisphere, but why do (some) women wear skimpy clothing that is designed in such a way that it is UNcomfortable to wear in any kind of weather? IBTP.

    Whether proposed earnestly or as a joke, I’m not a fan of seeing fashions that subjugate and objectify women being promoted as a way to reclaim female power against male oppression. To you it’s silly; to me it’s serious business. I understand that you said in your first post that you’re not trying to tell anyone to get a sense of humor, but in a way, that is how I read your comments. It seems to me like you’re suggesting that those of us who are identifying the problems with McCreight’s campaign are humorless and perhaps should focus on more important issues.

    Personally, I’m fascinated by the conjunction of sexism, P2K compliance, and white/Western privilege that I see in what appears at first glance to be a foolish and possibly innocuous Facebook group. It’s astonishing (but enlightening) to realize how insidious and self-propagating power structures really are. Every time I come across one of these IBTP threads on modern culture (like the thread on the Dove soap commercial) I’m delighted (and depressed) to find that Jill’s and the Blametariat’s analysis helps me see the layers of signs of institutionalized oppression in events that I might have originally overlooked. These seemingly small examples are symptoms of much wider problems, and examination of the symptoms can help us discuss and address the problems. Or at least it can help raise our awareness of how saturated in Patriarchy we are, enabling us to begin The Resistance!

  101. ivyleaves

    This didn’t get out of moderation until the discussion had passed it by, so I’m calling it out now:

    mike
    April 25, 2010 at 9:39 am
    “She will understand the patriarchy better when her patriarchy-approved “hotness” disappears. It vanishes so quickly in our society.”

    well, i see your presumption and raise you my beautiful 45-year-old girlfriend.

    yes, i have testes, but no, i am not trying to shut down anything, or (god forbid) start mansplaining, especially about such a ridiculous stunt as boobquake. tear it the fuck apart, by all means. but this one tidbit, reveling in one female blogger’s inevitable slide into ugly old ugliness; well not only is it totally false (beautiful older women abound, perhaps in all places but texas), but it’s also incongruous in such an otherwise thoughtful environment.

    Yes indeed, because there are a few 45 yr olds who manage to work hard enough on beauty to pass muster (at least with mike), we are totally wrong about women being valued based upon their looks. We cannot be sure that this young blogger will slide into the sin of ugliness, therefore your point about ugliness helping someone understand patriarchy better is moot! You too can probably stay hot into your 70′s and by then who cares what you think or how well you are treated? You conformed enough to have a mostly perfect life! We are so mean to a possibly innocent potential cougar!

  102. Ayla

    Wothless waste of flesh Mike said:

    “beautiful older women abound, perhaps in all places but texas”

    Mike, I hope a Texas armadillo bites your peen off and you bleed to death.

    Jill, Sorry for the violent imagery in your comments section and feel free to delete.

  103. Another spinster auntie

    Y’all have completely missed the whole point of Jen McCreight’s “boobquake” (what a supercilious and dismissive moniker) experiment. She NEVER exhorted anyone to dress more suggestively than they were comfy with nor did you want women to expose their bare ta-tas to the sun for the droolation of random dudes. She was making a point about the Islamic fear of the female body and their hatred of women. Showing skin, no matter how little, can be legally actioned upon in Iran. Women go to prison for wearing tight clothes or uncovering their hair. Asking women to wear something COMFORTABLY revealing, yet Islamically illegal, in order to strike against misogyny and ignorance is laudable.

    BTW, at what point do we bad-ass darlings refuse to bend to the patriarchy and do what we want? Just because SOME men think showing boobage is titillating (pun intended) doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. The more we de-mystify and uncover the female form, the less taboo and leer-inspiring it becomes.

    Some men like to look at women. Some women like to look at men. Big fat hairy deal. No matter WHAT women do, we are villified for it. If we dress conservatively, we’re prudes. If we dress sexy, we’re tramps. We can’t win for losing so WHY OH WHY must we deny our skins the feel of the sun and wind just because some dork-faces get all excited by looking at the mammaries, gams or tushie?

    As for this little demonstration, I’m wearing a scanty tank and a sarong, sans pantalones. I wear this all the time. I’m comfortable in my clothes and my skin and the devil be damned if anyone wants to tell me how to dress. Sure, some find my clothing provocative…..some men think nuns are hot…..just because some folks want to think what-the-hell-ever about me doesn’t meant I have to bend to their perceptions or deny them the view.

    Shame on you, Twisty. Just because some men will get a kick out of this doesn’t mean that Ms. McCreight doesn’t make a good and valid point. Now, strap your sisters up and take them out for a walk and dare the tectonics of earth to react.

  104. Infrequent Guest

    Thank goodness there is one blog with a proper response to boobquake. Excellent post and amusing commentary. I laughed out loud when I read Christina’s little black list.

    Perhaps Jen McCreight’s defenders should ask themselves what purpose drives a boobquake “experiment”? Is this really an “experiment” that requires additional “data”? Given that a burqa covers more than mere breasts, wouldn’t places such as the French Riviera have dropped into the sea by now? Further, if seismic disturbance is caused by “men going funny” at the sight of female flesh, then shouldn’t the entire earth have shaken itself into bits by now? Honestly, this “experiment” already has thousands of years of data to refute the cleric’s claim. There is only one thing boobquake proves and it has nothing to do with seismism, or a sense of humor.

  105. yttik

    “I hope a Texas armadillo bites your peen off and you bleed to death.”

    I wouldn’t mind seeing that printed on a teeshirt. I need a new shirt.

  106. just passing through

    @Boad : Give me a break. How many men do you see wearing low-cut shirts – and short shorts, crop tops, etc. – “because it’s hot outside”? Women’s clothing is designed to allow men maximum sexual objectification opportunity, and women are brainwashed into believing this is something desirable. If tight, skin-baring clothing was practical, you’d see men wearing it too. That men are allowed the privilege of being sexy without having to put their (de-haired) bodies on display should tell you everything you need to know about the insidious ways women’s second class status is regulated and upheld via aesthetic means.

    Basically, “boobquake” is saying “endorse Western patriarchal norms (accessibility of women’s bodies) to prove that you object to the patriarchal norms endorsed by the Other.”

    If we Western women want to mock patriarchy, let’s mock the patriarchy we know. (I’m using “we” to refer to Western women since it seems that McCreight is such; I’m not suggesting that all Blamers are Western women.) Mocking the Other only suggests that patriarchy is Not Our Problem.

    Exactly.

  107. Jill

    Shame on you, Twisty. Just because some men will get a kick out of this doesn’t mean that Ms. McCreight doesn’t make a good and valid point. Now, strap your sisters up and take them out for a walk and dare the tectonics of earth to react.

    I usually delete comments containing the purulent phrase “shame on you,” but how could I deny the Blametariat the opportunity to hear your personal panty-plans for celebrating Boobquake? Also, they will enjoy the idea of me strapping up my “sisters.”

    Hey, I know! I could draw naked ladies on my boob scars!

  108. Jill

    Bad news, everybody. There was a 6.9 magnitude earthquake in Taiwan today, “boobquake day.” I guess the universe really does tend toward maximum irony.

    Ha! Now that’s what I call a joke.

  109. Comrade Svilova

    Showing skin, no matter how little, can be legally actioned upon in Iran. Women go to prison for wearing tight clothes or uncovering their hair. Asking women to wear something COMFORTABLY revealing, yet Islamically illegal, in order to strike against misogyny and ignorance is laudable.

    The problem is that this “protest” is not taking place in Iran, but in the Western world. Women wearing skimpy clothing has a completely different social context in the West, and in the West, it is P2K-compliant behavior.

    I’m not suggesting that Iranian women should risk great personal harm by staging their own “boobquake” experiment. I don’t feel that it’s my place as a Western, white woman to advise Iranian women on how they should resist the Patriachy they confront in their daily lives. But in my own actions, I need to resist the Patriarchy that affects me, the Patriarchy of my own country, and participating in something like “boobquake” is not Twistolutionary in the Western world.

    I am strongly against the Patriarchal laws/customs of any and all repressive regimes. But endorsing Western patriarchal norms will not further the cause of women anywhere, East, West, South, or North.

  110. just passing through

    The more we de-mystify and uncover the female form, the less taboo and leer-inspiring it becomes.

    The prevalence of the naked female form on the internet coupled with the INCREASING fetishization of the female body pretty much nips that argument in the bud. The more naked and semi-naked women DudeNation consumes, the more female nudity they crave and the more stringent their requirements become for whom should be allowed to take off their clothing. There are scientific studies that corroborate this. What you’re spewing is DudeNation propaganda.

  111. Boad

    jpt: Give ME a break. Clothing is not the issue– the female body is. You don’t need to have your tits hanging out or your ass in short shorts to be considered ‘provocatively dressed’. A normal, chest-covering tank top (that men the world over wear) will be considered provocative because there are breasts under it, and their breastly form is obvious. So unless you propose women covering up completely in shapeless sacks (because that sure helps women elsewhere), clothing will be sexual for women in any case.

    And I saw some shlub of a man walking around shirtless on Saturday when it was hot outside– let me tell you, there was nothing sexual about it. A woman doing the same thing? She would probably be arrested for indecent exposure. It’s the female body that is the “problem” (for men) so making an issue of what clothing is or is not considered sexually revealing is asinine.

  112. RK

    I totally agree with Jill on the whole boobquake thing, but what’s up with all the House-bashing? I like to think of him as more of an equal opportunity hater.
    The character of House is totally over the top but truthfuly, many physicians dislike people by the end of residency training. I enjoy watching the show, probably because I can relate to a physician that lives to solve puzzles, enjoys a decent scotch(or bourbon depending on which episode), plays the piano, and appreciates a good reuben sandwich. Also, the show is set in a fictional hospital in the town I grew up in. OMG House is the male version of me!!!!!

  113. MPR

    Yeah, but there are 6.x magnitude earthquakes roughly every three days, so unfortunately the irony is lost on me.

  114. c2t2

    De-lurking after many, many years of haunting the blog.

    At first I didn’t get what the big deal was, or why anyone would care about the ‘boobquake’ experiment (if not for radfem blogs, I shudder at the morass of patriarchy which would have long since crushed my underdeveloped lobe).

    But I digress (my favourite pasttime). Having chosen to eschew Facebook, does it ever explicitly SAY the cleavage-baring must have male witnesses? I would lounge around the house in a bra for an afternoon in the interests of science (cough) if I could avoid the male gaze.

    Academic, since it appears I’ve missed the event. Alas, I shed a tear.

  115. wiggles

    Nurse Jackie is way better than House.

  116. Alexa

    Haha I’ll second the shirt with Mike’s blood and guts.

    I hate when men say ‘there are hot older women’

    heaven forbid there’s a point where women see no sense in trying eh mike? Even though we’re over the hill at 22 and know about it – there’s always the p working on a different level to ensure older women still want to kill themselves with Botox to achieve beauty.

    I wish for instance women would take heed of the shelf life ascribed by the p – start living for more than men. But the p works on giving every woman hope just to laugh at them later.

    Mike go get hit by a bus.

  117. just passing through

    Clothing is not the issue– the female body is. You don’t need to have your tits hanging out or your ass in short shorts to be considered ‘provocatively dressed’

    I have to disagree: there is nothing inherently problematic about the female body. Come to that, there is nothing inherently problematic about the male body, but I digress.

    Please, answer a few questions for me. Why is men’s clothing designed for function and comfort, while a vast percentage of women’s clothing is designed to make women sexually appealing to men? Why is it that men generally don’t opt to wear skin-tight, revealing clothing and women do? Why is a tuxedo, that covers 3/4 of the male body, considered appropriate evening wear for a man while skimpy, form-fitting dresses are considered appropriate evening wear for a woman? Why does this gender disparity exist in fashion? I’d like to hear your take on it.

    The fashion industry doesn’t exist in a cultural vacuum, you know. I certainly don’t have a problem with my body, I don’t dress “provocatively” – the day men start dressing “provocatively”, I’ll reconsider – and yet I manage to avoid wearing shapeless sacks. Imagine that.

    And I saw some shlub of a man walking around shirtless on Saturday when it was hot outside– let me tell you, there was nothing sexual about it. A woman doing the same thing? She would probably be arrested for indecent exposure.

    Look, breasts, pectoral muscles, not the same thing. As was mentioned earlier, breasts are secondary sex characteristics, they’ve been irrevocably imbued with sexual meaning in Western civ, and you are not going to change that no matter how many non-sexualized liberated titties are bouncing around American neighborhoods. The average hetero American male is conditioned to equate boobs with sex at an early age and the only thing you’re going to accomplish by flashing yours around town is to provide myriad dudes with free fapping material.

    If you seriously want to put the kibosh on the sexual objectification of boobies, you should consider becoming an anti-porn activist. Put a stop to the rampant objectification of the female body, and then, and only then, will we be able to reclaim our titties as our property and our property only.

    Good luck with that.

  118. Alexa

    that felt good!

  119. FemDoc

    RK, I’m a physician, too, and I certainly didn’t stop liking people by the end of residency, otherwise I would have found a new line of work. No wonder doctors have such a bad rap–”many physicians” just don’t like people! Now it all makes sense.

    I dislike “House” because, as a female physician, if I acted like him, I’d be labelled a crazy bitch, have my hospital privileges pulled, and be forced on a mental health holiday–brilliance, reuben-eating, scotch-swilling, and piano-playing notwithstanding.

    I will admit that I only saw the 4 episodes that Continental airlines picked to play on an interminable flight, but I just didn’t find anything funny or endearing about the House character. Maybe that’s because I’m a humorless feminist who has had to grow up surrounded by self-proclaimed “brilliant” male doctors who wouldn’t have a clean pair of tidy whities to put on without their wives picking up after them, and who still wax reminiscent with “war stories” of the >80 hour workweek residency system that, as Betty Friedan once described, predisposes that there is a stay-at-home wife to take care of all the other details of life. They can talk to me about residency war stories when they’ve had to duck into a call room to pump breast milk, or when they’ve had to get admitted themselves (while on call) to get a magnesium infusion for pre-term labor at 26 weeks gestation, or when they’ve had to elbow an asshole surgery intern in the gut to get him to take his hands off, or when they’ve had to scream at dudely medical student to get the hell out of their personal space.

    And yet I still like people! I must be a freak.

  120. wiggles

    “If you seriously want to put the kibosh on the sexual objectification of boobies, you should consider becoming an anti-porn activist.”

    Do you know where you are?

  121. FemDoc

    just passing through, if you have to ask WHY women “choose” to wear skin-tight, revealing clothing, and men don’t, and WHY there is a gender disparity in fashion, you may need to brush up on your radical feminism. Of course the “fashion industry” doesn’t exist in a “cultural vacuum”–it exists in the patriarchy!

    Pectorals are common to both men and women, as are breasts. There are men here in Western PA who have larger breasts than some of the women, yet it is not lawfully “indecent” for the men to go around topless. I do find it ironic that Jill, who has had a double mastectomy (thus truly has no breasts), was censured by all the ladies at her sister’s pool for going topless. Apparently, it is more culturally appropriate for a breast-less woman to wear fake breasts, and THEN cover them up. Do I blame the ladies for conforming to such an idiotic idea? Of course not. IBTP.

    As for “shapeless slacks”–I wear ‘em all the time! I have completely rid my wardrobe of skirts, and the prerequisite panty-hose, high heels, and leg-shaving that goes along with them. I’d wear a tuxedo, too, if the damn things didn’t look almost as uncomfortable as an evening gown. Mostly, I just avoid occasions that call for such ridiculous, gender-specific dress-codes. I had enough of THAT shit in the army. Hoo-haa.

  122. ew_nc

    Wow Mike, congratulations on completely missing the point! You didn’t even get close. That takes some doing!

  123. feral

    Could someone direct me to any blamer comments demanding that women fight patriarchal oppression by dressing modestly? It’s the strangest thing, but for all the accusations that radfems are the female sexuality police, I seem to be overlooking such requirements and not just on this blog, but every time I critique patriarchal norms.

    Oddly enough, I did notice the pseudo-spinster aunt concluding her argument for Boobquake compliance by ordering Jill to strap her sisters up and take them out for a walk.

    All of this evil-rad-fem-isn’t-gonna-tell-ME-how-to-dress finger-pointing bullshit is mere projection and deflection. No one is telling YOU what to wear, for fuck’s sake.

    Tell women every waking second how to present their breasts and which breasts are presentable, and you’ll get a world of applause and a fortune. Simply ask why we are required to present our breasts in a certain fashion, and for whom, and out come the accusations. Good goddamn, Jill, I don’t know how you do it.

  124. Boad

    “[Breasts are] irrevocably imbued with sexual meaning in Western civ, and you are not going to change that no matter how many non-sexualized liberated titties are bouncing around American neighborhoods.”

    Uh yeah that was my whole point. Covered up or not, men know they’re there and that’s where the “problem” lies with the female body. It’s female. I’m getting the feeling you’re basically just having an argument with yourself, because I don’t care about fashion or why it is the way it is (–Patriarchy. Duh.) My point, yet again, is that breasts themselves are provocative, which is why even in a T-shirt, if you’ve got big tits, people are thinking ‘Jesus why doesn’t she put those things away’– there’s nowhere to put them! So what is the solution? Our breasts are there anyway– cleavage or not, we’re screwed.

    Also, I never said I wanted to put the kibosh on sexual objectification of boobies– that’s your own argument from seemingly nowhere.

    “and the only thing you’re going to accomplish by flashing yours around town is to provide myriad dudes with free fapping material.”

    What you’re saying is we should cover our breasts to keep random men on the street from becoming aroused. Well if I want to walk around with my tits hanging out for whatever reason, I’m going to (not that I actually do). If I want to cover them up to keep from being harassed, I’m going to. One is not really a better option than the other, because both are based on what I want my reaction FROM MEN to be. Guess what? I don’t give a shit about what reaction my boobs and their level of visibility will have on men. Which is why claiming this boobquake thing is some horrible affront to feminism is bullshit. I know we have no autonomy blah blah blah, but I’m going to pretend I do, and not base my clothing choices on creepy men and their likelihood of droolage.

    Good luck with whatever the hell you’re doing.

  125. Alexa

    Sorry boad, but you need to go. We all dislike you and your boarishness and iq of 10.
    Ask yourself what your point is besides getting under some feminists’ skins, and throwing the word patriarchy in just so your poor comment gets through.

  126. yttik

    “I don’t give a shit about what reaction my boobs and their level of visibility will have on men.”

    Spoken like somebody who has never been a victim of rape or of childhood sexual abuse, someone who has never hid as a 12 yr girl under a triple large sweatshirt trying desperately to hide her “promiscuity,” least she become prey for male consumption.

    Avoiding male “droolage” is the least of my concerns. Promoting breasts as evidence of likely promiscuity is.

  127. Comrade Svilova

    @JPT

    Put a stop to the rampant objectification of the female body, and then, and only then, will we be able to reclaim our titties as our property and our property only.

    Hurrah!

    @Boad

    claiming this boobquake thing is some horrible affront to feminism is bullshit

    Can’t I simply claim that this boobquake thing is provocative to analyze from a feminist viewpoint? By simply discussing a phenomenon, no one is suggesting that it’s the worst crime against women ever.

    Also, I never said I wanted to put the kibosh on sexual objectification of boobies

    Are you in favor of the sexual objectification of women, then? Aspects of your post suggest not, and now I’m confused.

  128. Comrade Svilova

    Yttik was faster and clearer than I.

    Avoiding male “droolage” is the least of my concerns.

    Hear, hear. I’m concerned with avoiding lending any support to the Patriarchy.

  129. Amananta

    Small update on the entire facebook debacle: I dared question the efficacy and wisdom of Boobquake on my facebook account and was roundly shouted down, accused of telling women what to wear, told a woman started it therefore it couldn’t be patriarchal or misogynist, told I didn’t understand irony, told it is all about celebrating our bodies and our sexiness, that if groups of drunken men demanding women show their tits doesn’t make that particular woman feel threatened there must not be anything wrong with it, and finally told that if it feels liberating, it IS liberating. I gave up and took the freaking status update down. This didn’t stop me from now being mocked on other people’s facebooks accounts. Apparently now I am as bad as the religious right, I am trying to control other women’s clothing choices, and by morning I am certain it will be reported that I am in collusion with Muslim fundamentalists.

  130. yttik

    Ahh, “kibosh” means to stop, to squelch. But see, I very much want to put the kibosh on the “sexual objectification of boobies.”

    I’d like to put the kibosh on the sexual objectification of all female parts, because it’s the objectification part that really bites. Objectify means to make impersonal, to present as an object. Objectification is to regard a person as a commodity, as an object for use. Once you’re viewed as a commodity, you’re not a human entitled to full autonomy.

  131. Boad

    “Are you in favor of the sexual objectification of women, then? Aspects of your post suggest not, and now I’m confused.”

    Haha no I’m definitely not. I was responding to her telling me how to stop said boobie-objectification when that was never something I said I was trying to do. I’m not *not* trying to do it, but throwing that at me was kind of baseless is all.

    “Can’t I simply claim that this boobquake thing is provocative to analyze from a feminist viewpoint?”

    Yes.

    “Spoken like somebody who has never been a victim of rape or of childhood sexual abuse, someone who has never hid as a 12 yr girl under a triple large sweatshirt trying desperately to hide her “promiscuity,” least she become prey for male consumption.”

    Please don’t assume anything about my past or abuses I may have suffered. Are you saying we should cover up then? Breasts should be hidden for our own safety? That comes back to my entire last post, which clearly I didn’t write out well at all and I apologize for that.

    “Sorry boad, but you need to go. We all dislike you and your boarishness and iq of 10.”

    Okay, I’m sorry that my post(s) made me completely unlikeable and deemed me too retarded to enter into discourse with you fine people. I won’t post in this topic again.

  132. Jill

    For the record, Boad isn’t banned. Only designated spinster aunts may wield that awesome power around here.

    Also: RK, are you by any chance the RK?

  133. yttik

    “Haha no I’m definitely not. I was responding to her telling me how to stop said boobie-objectification when that was never something I said I was trying to do. I’m not *not* trying to do it..”

    Boad, I can hardly manage to decipher a double negative. You’ve got a quadruple wrapped up in there.

    If one does not support the objectification of women’s body parts, then why would one support a protest that advocates hanging them out as examples, indeed as scientific evidence, of immodest and promiscuous women?

  134. just passing through

    Covered up or not, men know they’re there and that’s where the “problem” lies with the female body.

    I never said I wanted to put the kibosh on sexual objectification of boobies

    I do believe that the mind-bending incongruity in these statements actually caused a brainquake in my cerebral region lasting at least several seconds in duration.

    I don’t think you get that hetero men are instructed in the ways of female sexual objectification and that this creates an objectification mindset wherein men are unable to observe an attractive woman without reflexively examining her body for potential fapping fodder. It’s scientific fact that women possess equal capacity for visual sexual stimulation, and yet women generally don’t engage in the same objectification behavior, and certainly not to the same extent, that men do. What sets men and women apart in this respect is that men begin using porn much earlier in life and they consume far more of it. Objectification begets objectification, but the cultural narrative about men and porn is that it’s necessary and natural. Cultural narratives are frequently based on convenient mythology devised by the ruling class to preserve and protect their privilege.

    I do understand what you’re saying about boobs being sexualized no matter the style of clothing, and I empathize. There is no shirt thick or baggy enough to deflect attention from large breasts, as I have come to know through personal experience; however, I also know, via personal experience, that fitted, cleavage-baring shirts are a cultural symbol of sexual availability, no matter my opinion on the matter. It’s all fine and good to rebel against oppressive regimes, but you have to consider whether the message you’re inadvertently sending is that you endorse the status quo rather than oppose it. In our patriarchal culture, keeping your sexy parts covered while retaining your attractiveness is a privilege enjoyed exclusively by men. Men never have to worry about how much bulge to show, if too little is prudish or too much is whorish, because their clothing isn’t designed with sexuality in mind. Women are fully expected to telegraph their interest in sex, or lack of, through their choice of attire. How fair is that?

  135. nails

    I forgot to add that in skeptical groups there is some weird obsession with proving how superior *our* sexist attitude towards women is compared to *their* (muslim) sexist attitude towards women. Liberal dudes are the majority of the people upholding the boobquake as a good idea; you know, dudes who are for abortion so that they have more access to pussy without the consequence of children. Bill Maher, etc.

    Between this (the unfeminist skeptics crap) and stuff like the previous vibration thread (the unskeptical feminist crap), I don’t know where I belong, or if I belong anywhere. It’s rough.

  136. mearl

    Yes, who cares what the oppressor thinks of anyone’s boobs! Who cares what those pesky men think or do? Just like feminist theory comes out of a vacuum, women too can now walk around in vacuums where men don’t intrude – or if they do, we don’t have to care. We can just IGNORE them and their oppressive shit.

    While they’re sexually harassing us, we can ignore them. While they’re raping us or giving us STIs or deciding our reproductive fate, we can ignore them. While they’re doling out money or raises or jobs or business grants or judicial verdicts in favour of their buddies/ women who comply with their standards/ that frog at the end of the street, we can just go off and ignore them. While they’re publishing misogynist diatribes and agreeing with each other in the news and on the net and in advertising and media everywhere, while they’re pointing guns at us and throwing us in jail and rolling around in their tanks blowing shit up and sitting up in Parliament determining politics/health care/economics/sexuality/technology, we can JUST IGNORE THEM. What men think really doesn’t factor into anything at all, and it most certainly doesn’t manifest itself into anything resembling real events in the real world. IGNORE THEM, and you win. That’s what feminism is all about.

  137. mearl

    Just Passing Through, I hope you stick around.

  138. Comrade Svilova

    in skeptical groups there is some weird obsession with proving how superior *our* sexist attitude towards women is compared to *their* (muslim) sexist attitude towards women

    Exactly. It’s a distressing blend of baseless “superiority” based on racism and P2K complicity.

  139. shopstewardess

    @ mearl: exactly what you said.

    My no doubt flawed take on the patriarchy is it is impossible for clothing of any description to be a protest against the patriarchy. Covered up and un-covered up are both different ways for women to lose.

    If we expose ourselves, we are accomodating the wishes of the patriarchy. If we cover ourselves up, we are not opposing the patriarchy, but either passing as equivalent to men (the usually advised strategy for women in the professions, but which only works as long as men go along with it), or absenting ourselves from male attention (except there is nowhere on the planet a woman can reliably absent herself from male attention of one sort or another).

    Activism against the patriarchy therefore needs to take some other form than deciding what it is we women wear.

  140. allhellsloose

    This is one campaign I’m excluded from as I’m not under the age of 30. Let’s face it anyone beyond that age group, taking part, would be viewed by dude nation as ewww!

    Unless she fits into the ‘Mike’ category of ‘MILF’ (older woman who’s a desirable shag who goes well beyond the call of duty to keep up her ‘sexy’ appearance).

    Boobquake is an example of patriarchal compliance at its best. Now, where’s the humour in that?

  141. enough_is_enough

    Jill: Finally a voice of reason about this. I read somewhere today that it was just ‘girls gone wild with a cause’. That’s about it.

  142. Lin

    JustPassingThrough, I don´t know where you live, but in Britain men are the ones wearing the ridiculously tight jeans and shirts, while the girls walk around in giant baggy shirts and leggings. So I find your argument that men never wear sexualised clothing and are always comfortable while women are forced to wear sexualised uncomfortable clothing a tad hard to apply to the reality I know. Of course women wear far more sexualised clothing and British girls are the worst for tarting themselves up, but ignoring the fact that – at least here – young men do the same thing (including makeup, hair straighteners and everything else idiotic one could think of) drags the quality of your point down.

    My much earlier point was less about not having humour; it was about the fact that such a high percentage of comments that do nothing but tear down others, even if they agree in parts, is another sad display of the behaviour that gives feminism its bad reputation. I know you ladies do not care about that in the slightest, but you are deterring women from even looking into what your ideology has to offer, because they are either ridiculed for asking a question you deem stupid or snarked at for a similar reason. I find this deplorable, since you all seem like well-spoken and intelligent women.

    Jezebella, believe me, I know what hostility is. I am a German woman in Britain and I have worked as a paramedic, which – at least back home – is a male-dominated environment. I don´t see how calling this comments section, with its high percentage of incredibly angry-sounding replies, hostile shows a lack of imagination; there are levels of hostility, yes, and it can get far more hostile than this. Hostility nonetheless is a prevalent feeling here…

  143. nails

    “Exactly. It’s a distressing blend of baseless “superiority” based on racism and P2K complicity.”

    I don’t know how likely any of that is to go away when christopher hitchens is still accepted within the community. I don’t know how anyone could reject feminists harder than idolizing that guy, yeesh.

    Glad to find someone who gives a shit though, thanks Comrade Svilova.

  144. Alexa

    I walk on egg shells for no one. We just had a problem with someone telling us how feminism should be done, many forums are hostile – but guessing you wouldn’t be sayin same to those on antimisandry.com.

    Saying we give feminism a bad name is silencing us – we have a right to be angry and hostile to those who seem to ‘not get it’ as a day job.

  145. Misfratz the Humourless Feminist

    Just in case any of the ‘but it’s skience’ trolls are genuine in that argument: this is not, nor was it ever intended to be (assuming the originator does come from a scientific background) an ‘experiment’. FFS. In order for it to be a Skience vs. Thicky religious brown people (your dichotomy, not mine), you’d need also to have a day where all women wore niqab/hijab as a control (where on such a day, you’d expect lower or sero seismic activity). You’d also need to define boundaries for measurement: are we looking at global seismic activity, or local to the region where women are being instructed to get their enlightened atheist tits out for the atheist geek lads. If you’re trying to convince people this is a science vs. religion issue, rather than an instantiation of ‘we are so much better than the primitive peoples who fear our liberated western contruct of sexuality’ imperialism, you might like to study science a tiny little bit first. I hear there are sites about it on the internet, for when you’re done searching for your ever-so-progressive nerd porn.

  146. awhirlinlondon

    Lin: You write that “In Britain, men are the ones wearing the ridiculously tight jeans and shirts, while the girls walk around in giant baggy shirts and leggings.”

    You’re right that this form of male dress is more common here (and in much of Europe) than it is in most of the US. The most obvious difference is in the style of swimming trunks available to men on opposite sides of the Atlantic: here, small and tight; there, increasingly baggy. Point taken. As to “girls walk[ing] around in giant baggy shirts and leggings” – well yes, some, but certainly not the majority, in my experience.

    You write that you find the “argument that men never wear sexualised clothing and are always comfortable while women are forced to wear sexualised uncomfortable clothing” untenable. Of course you do. It is always the case that the generalizations “never” and “always” are never right.

    You argue that in your experience, “women wear far more sexualised clothing… but… young men do the same thing”. This is logically impossible. My point is not rhetorical. That women do wear “far more sexualised clothing” is both true in your experience, and has real ideological / political valence. Some men– typically young men– wear tight trousers and shirts. Many, many more women – of all ages – dress to signal – well what, exactly? Sexual availability? Sometimes. Compliance with patriarchal norms? More frequently, that. That the “sexualised” clothing question has a great deal to do with age and (particularly) class for men – you’ll seldom see a powerful man showing off his pecs, whereas you will see many, many rich, married (i.e. not powerful in their own right) women showing off their sexual desirability posed in male terms (if you’re old, it’s best that you be starved and polished) is proof of the fact that it’s a power thing.

    More to the point, as had been said again and again, men do not put themselves in the situation, however jokingly, of protesting this or that by showing off their bodies. They would find it absurd. “We” would find it absurd. “All men for a nuclear-free world wear a tank-top tomorrow!” would not make a media storm. It would be ignored. Because it would be… silly. Not “funny-silly” but “weird-silly.” “What’s wrong with them; are they gay [not "real men"]?-silly.”

    I don’t know that there’s that much in the way of biting heads off going on here even among the blameatariat, although perhaps I’ve grown used to it. I know that once upon a time it made me take to my bed with smelling salts and I didn’t dare post for a year or so as a result. (Words will hurt me far more than the sticks and stones that may break my bones. More’s the pity.)

    I don’t imagine that the woman gave her post much thought and I’m positive that she had no idea it’d go viral. (If my odd-moment postings went viral I’d crawl under a rock and stay there permanently.) What you’re seeing here is not so much anger with her, I think, but an expression of anger/irritation that This Shit Is Still Going On and is being embraced even though we (including you, obviously) know that it would be, will be, has been & when won’t it be? and also an intellectual picking-apart of why this is the case. Useful, both. And often fun, too. What I believe you’re seeing is the reaction of women who have found a place in which they are not required 1. to be particularly polite to each other when they’re feeling intellectually or emotionally combative and 2. A forum that is self-professedly impatient with feminism-101 or 098 under the premise that sites like those exist everywhere. I think that the premise here is “listen, get the hang of the place, see if you like it enough to hang out and learn something and then and only then comment, even if (to this group) provocatively. Or go away. Your choice. Your other choice? Twisty’s dangling you in front of her blametariat as troll-bait. She does so like setting us off. Doing so has been the cause of much insightful parsing and considering – and also a great deal of hilarity.

  147. speedbudget

    Let’s see what equality really looks like.

  148. SargassoSea

    Lin –
    You cannot claim that because boys wear “ridiculously tight” clothing that it is “sexualized clothing”. Tight clothing is only sexualized if a woman is wearing it; men and (their attire), as a class, are not sexually objectified.

    And, “tarting up”? Holy cow.

  149. enough_is_enough

    “….sad display of the behaviour that gives feminism its bad reputation”

    lol, actually it’s men that give feminism a bad reputation….but thanks for blaming us anyways!

  150. Lin

    awhirlinlondon, thank you for that reply :) that was the kind of insightfully critical response I expected from a group like this and I enjoyed it.

    SargassoSea, so if a young man wearing signal-red skinny jeans so tight there is nothing left to the imagination and a shirt so low cut you can see his navel is not sexualised, what is it in your opinion? I can see how it is not necessarily sexually objectifying, yes. In my opinion it is still sexualised, albeit in a non-submissive manner.

    and yes, tarting up. good god, they make me want to puke. The fake blonde extensions, the 5 pounds of makeup in a shade of orange, the fake lashes, the litres of perfume… I call that tarting up. What do you call it?

  151. Jill

    Lin, funfeminists are not the only ones who think this blog is “hostile.” Interestingly, misogynist liberal dudes tell me all the time that I’ll never win anyone over to the cause because I’m not nice enough.

    Fortunately, feminist revolution does not depend on me not hurting the feelings of funfeminists. It depends on the response to this simple idea:

    Either it is wrong to oppress women or it isn’t.

    My personal rhetorical style doesn’t enter into it, even remotely. When feminism fails to attract hordes of activists, it’s not my fucking fault. The fault lies with the ethical failing of those who refuse to cop to their role in the oppression continuum, with those who see feminism as an easy-breezy “lifestyle choice,” and with those who believe it is women’s essential nature to enjoy oppression.

  152. Jill

    I call that tarting up. What do you call it?

    SargassoSea may have been objecting to the use of the word “tart” as a pejorative. An antifeminist epithet uttered in haste may not seem like much, but it goes back to the slow, steady accumulation of seemingly insignificant little indignities that make up women’s oppression. One considers a woman who is raped in exchange for money a prostituted woman; this phrase more accurately describes the reality of her oppression than do all the other winky-winky words (of which “tart” is one) that portray prostitution as a “profession,” or that suggest that a woman who is sexually manipulative or promiscuous is a devolved sub-human.

  153. Comrade Svilova

    good god, they make me want to puke. The fake blonde extensions, the 5 pounds of makeup in a shade of orange, the fake lashes, the litres of perfume… I call that tarting up. What do you call it?

    Just like no one’s blaming McCreight alone for “bookquake,” let’s not blame the victims who are P2K-compliance. IBTP.

  154. Lin

    Jill, fair enough. My choice of words was a little rash; I do however find it hard to think of a non-pejorative way of describing those processes of “enhancement”.
    My personal problem with a lot of the attacks I read in this comments section is that quite a few of them seem to attack people who agree in principle and have not reached the same level of immersion as you and your followers. I am merely concerned that accusing them of half-heartedness rather than constructively pointing out what you think they are missing will shut down a vast amount of interest, which would be a shame in my opinion. I know you are annoyed by “i think the oppression of women is wrong, but…” arguments and rightly so. However I am sure a non-snarky answer like the one I got from awhirlinlondon will convince far more women of the validity of your points than a “you´re so wrong and dont get it, bugger off” comment.

    Svivlova, also a fair point.

  155. Gwytherinn

    Should have realized you’d have something to say about this and that I wouldn’t have to blame alone, gritting my teeth as the event came through my facebook feed. So glad I caught this post. Thank you!!!

  156. Jezebella

    Lin, do you *get* that most of the commenters here are tired of patiently explaining feminism over and over and over, mostly to people who really don’t want to know but enjoy derailing threads?

    There are many places one can go to learn about feminism, starting with the FAQ of this here blog, but asking us to be nicey-nice and stop everything and constructively educate every single commenter who doesn’t seem to Get It is just, well, it’s asking a bit much from a blog that states, right there at the top of the page, that it’s for advanced patriarchy-blamers, and is not a feminist primer.

    This is actually one of the least hostile environments I have found on the internet.

  157. Another spinster auntie

    Twisty, I’m new around these parts and didn’t realize you’d had mammary removal…condlences. I can’t imagine what it’s like to have a body part removed. However, the Muzzies dislike legs, tushies and arms just as much. Hell, just letting your hair in the air and putting on a pair of shorts would have been sufficient.

    In light of your revelation, one gently wonders if perhaps your disapproval of “boobquake” stems from missing your boobage. I’m not making the accusation, but just asking you to ask yourself. Feminists are already harassed and belittled for everydangthing we do so in-fighting and finger-pointing and hair-pulling seems counter-productive.

    Remember, darling, there’s more than one way to be a feminist. Some do it under a burka……some do it stark naked. What matters is not the clothing, but the intent to see women treated equally to men.

  158. gayle

    “In light of your revelation, one gently wonders if perhaps your disapproval of “boobquake” stems from missing your boobage.”

    I’m going to take a wild stab here and assume it doesn’t.

    Mearl,

    I love your comment timestamped 11:33. Would you mind if I archived it for future use? It’s the perfect response to just about every libertarian argument I’ve come across on the web and I come across those a lot! If I could simply cut and paste your beautiful words, you would make my blogging life so much easier. I promise I’d give you full credit every time!

  159. Comrade Svilova

    However, the Muzzies dislike legs, tushies and arms just as much. Hell, just letting your hair in the air and putting on a pair of shorts would have been sufficient.

    Why are so many Western people more interested in offending Muslim men than in actually confronting the subjugation of women in Western countries?

    It’s easier to pretend that the subjugation of women only happens “over there” and that it’s co-ordinated by Brown-skinned “Muzzies.” If Western women are going to work towards freeing Middle Eastern women from Patriarchal oppression, we need to do so as allies working with women from the Middle East, listening to the women who are actually from those cultures to learn what actions on our part would be most effective. This is not an area where Western women can or should take the lead; to suppose that we know best what actions will best confront Muslim oppression of women is merely an example of white/Western privilege. And cheap shots tinged with racial/ethnic/religious bias (Muzzies?) will not achieve anything.

    On the other hand, Western women can know best what actions to take to confront the Patriarchal oppression of women in the West. And wearing clothing that emphasizes and objectifies our secondary sexual characteristics is not the answer.

    Supporting the Western objectification of women will not improve the status of women in the East or in the West.

  160. kristyn joy

    Really looking forward to gazing into the can of worms you’ve opened here, “another spinster auntie.”

  161. Comrade Svilova

    I second Gayle’s “wild” guess about Jill’s motivations, and I’ll point out that Jill isn’t the only woman here who objects to this “experiement.” I have plenty of concerns about “boobquake,” and at this point I still have my mammary glands.

    If not p (no breasts) = not q (no to boobquake), then p should equal q (breasts = yes to boobquake), but anecdotal evidence from this thread suggests otherwise.

  162. arlene

    Is Another Spinister Aunt some kind of troll? I am tired so maybe I am missing some joke I don’t get. But ‘darling?’ and ‘muzzies’?

  163. kristyn joy

    Also, breasts = not such a big deal for many of us.

    Perhaps there are some women who are … attached to the mammary tissue and fat deposits strapped to their chests (whoops, the ellipses means “almost typed ‘delusional with patriarchy-sickness’”).

    But for many of us, breasts are just breasts. After all, they don’t really serve a purpose other than for suckling children. It’s not like losing a limb or a digit.

    Anecdotally — as one who is childfree by choice and has been hiding under huge shirts since a young age, if my 34B/C encumbrance spontaneously fell off tomorrow I would be happy and throw a fucking party where y’all would be invited. Margaritas all ’round.
    Certainly wouldn’t miss them, or stare in longing breast-envy at my yet-enboobened peers. Yet that doesn’t mean I’m “secretly a man” or that I hate myself. I merely think breasts are just breasts.

    Except when I’m trying to go about my day and members of the Great Unwashed Patriarchy [TM] won’t stop staring at them. Then they are symbols of my oppression and a reminder that I will never be fully human in the eyes of others.

  164. Saurs

    Another spinster auntie, help a niece out here, is there any way to read your comment other than a supremely condescending attempt to silence Jill by implying that she’s jus’ jellus?

    Feminists are already harassed and belittled for everydangthing we do so in-fighting and finger-pointing and hair-pulling seems counter-productive.

    You forgot “shrill”, “strident,” “bitchy,” “irrational,” “frigid,” “prudish,” “sex police,” “man-hater,” and “cat fight.” You should also probably remind us that we ladiez are never gonna a husband if we keep this act up and that we’re convincing nobody with that chip on our collective shoulder.

  165. feral

    “In light of your revelation, one gently wonders if perhaps your disapproval of “boobquake” stems from missing your boobage. I’m not making the accusation, but just asking you to ask yourself.” Holy shit, there is nothing more arrogant and condescending than asking someone to reflect upon a personal experience as if, prior to the suggestion, she had been incapable of full introspection followed by external analysis.

    How kind and gentle of you, pseudo-auntie! I have a question for you, though. Did you ever think that your authorization of the Boobquake event has something to do with your privilege resulting from compliance with the patriarchy?

    Reminds me of dudes I tried dating after a severely abusive relationship. Every critique of their behavior on my part ended in a similar “suggestion.” Ah, honey, did you ever think that maybe you only feel that way because you were beaten up and raped? Your worldview is all screwy, see! What they (and myself at the time)failed to realize is that, not only were my critiques valid but demonstrated the pervasiveness of the patriarchy. Their behavior towards me fell perfectly in line with the rape and abuse continuum that is patriarchal oppression. Their response to my objections, that my view is subjective while their objective…well, I think we all know where that comes from. IBTP.

    Pseudo-auntie suggests that Jill bare other parts in order to participate: her hair, ankles, legs. No surprise that her chest is now suddenly off-limits for the Boobquakers.

    If I were just a bodiless head, with no hair, I’m sure someone would bust out a tube of lipstick. Everyone can play! See!!

  166. RK

    Yes. I am that RK.

  167. janicen

    “What matters is not the clothing, but the intent to see women treated equally to men.”

    A.S.A., “Intent” will change nothing as long as we are bombarded with messages telling us that women are bad and men are good. Whether women are forced to dress a certain way because of religious law or because dressing a certain way gains them approval or disapproval from those in power, the message is still the same. We can think of ourselves as feminists and act as feminists, but the constant stream of messaging reminding us that we are inferior has a powerful influence on how we react toward women. That’s why even the most seemingly innocuous diminution of women and their status is so destructive. That’s why the blamers here blame the patriarchy. It’s everywhere and it’s powerful and its intent is to keep us down.

    I won’t try to explain why you are so wrong about Jill’s motivation for disagreeing with boobquake. Surely you see the fallacy in your logic, but logic was not your motivation. You just wanted to take a cheap shot at someone who had a double mastectomy. I remind my teenager from time to time that she might occasionally be tempted to join in when other teens are teasing or making fun of someone, to resist the temptation not only because it’s just plain wrong, but also that she will look back on the incident with shame and regret.

    Congratulations on your cheap shot. May it haunt you for the rest of your life.

  168. polly

    Y’all have completely missed the whole point of Jen McCreight’s “boobquake” (what a supercilious and dismissive moniker) experiment. She NEVER exhorted anyone to dress more suggestively than they were comfy with nor did you want women to expose their bare ta-tas to the sun for the droolation of random dudes. She was making a point about the Islamic fear of the female body and their hatred of women. Showing skin, no matter how little, can be legally actioned upon in Iran. Women go to prison for wearing tight clothes or uncovering their hair. Asking women to wear something COMFORTABLY revealing, yet Islamically illegal, in order to strike against misogyny and ignorance is laudable.

    No it isn’t, it’s utterly pointless! Do you seriously think the Iranian powers that be are going to think “Oh no, North American women showing their cleavage, better make with the proper human rights quickly”.

    Why not join Amnesty International, or some actual campaigning organisation instead?

  169. procrastinatrix

    Another spinster auntie and kristyn joy: Jill has eloquently explained in several posts on this self same blog that having breast cancer is not about having breasts or not having them. It’s about living or dying.

    kristyn joy, I’m assuming you wouldn’t be so thrilled about your breasts falling off if it also involved life threatening little beasties running around throughout your lymphatic system trying to off you.

    What a weird turn this thread has taken.

  170. mike

    “Mike go get hit by a bus.”

    i sense i’m not welcome here. well okay. i’ll keep reading, as i have for a long time. apparently it hasn’t gotten through yet.

    i’m gonna go hate some women, you know, do some patriarchy stuff.

  171. polly

    Lin, I DO live in Britain and the only man I can think of who meets your description of men in tight clothing is Russell Brand. Who I understand spends a lot of time in the USA these days with his lovely fiancee, Katy Perry.

    And yes loose shirts are currently in fashion. You still see a lot of short skirts and heels and not much else on a Saturday night in town though.

  172. polly

    Hope that wasn’t too hostile by the way.

  173. MPR

    “In light of your revelation, one gently wonders if perhaps your disapproval of “boobquake” stems from missing your boobage. I’m not making the accusation, but just asking you to ask yourself.”

    I assume Jill’s opinions come from her patriarchy-blaming brain which are then passed on to me with the assistance of her unparalled wit, without ever being routed through her boob/boobless region.

  174. Ayla

    I see that Phyllis, the very famished Armadillas Penisingestus specimen mailed to Mike, has not reached her destination quite yet.

    IBTUSPS
    (I blame the United States Postal Service)

  175. Comrade Svilova

    But MPR, everyone knows women think with their boobs and wombs!

  176. tinfoil hattie

    I’d like someone to define “comfortably revealing” for me.

    “comfortabl(e) for/to whom?

  177. Alexa

    I don’t get lyn’s deep ‘concern’.. Asking me to be nicer doesn’t work as I don’t work for any feminist body, none of us get payed. We’re just advanced blamers angry about something you either get or don’t. This is discussion of what we all understand already. Either do your reading, coming back to contribute or go away.

    We don’t intend to educate, we’re already deep into the philosophy. We don’t owe you anything lyn, hopefully you took my ‘bugger off’ as it was meant to be.

  178. Jezebella

    “Muzzies” instead of “Muslims”? “MUZZIES”? Are you fucking kidding me, lady??

  179. Alexa

    After reading a few really vindictive troll posts (another spinster aunt wtf?) think I’m taking a break from the thread. Maybe I spoke too soon about how this blog was for the uninterrupted flowing discussion of the philosophy. Right now it’s just moron trolls getting their sad 10 mins of attention.

  180. allhellsloose

    @ tinfoil hattie ‘comfortably revealing’ sounds like an oxymoran to me.

    As for ‘another spinster auntie’; I refuse to be silenced. So if someone, say, doesn’t like the facebook campaign (yawn) on, say, ‘Let’s jump up and down to obliterate the ‘muzzies”, and they happen to be an amputee (legs) does that make their objection obsolete? Just asking you to ask yourself.

    Oh and I live in the UK. Where are these tightly trousered men? Do I need to correct my myopic vision to spot them?

  181. lawbitch

    Mike, you missed the point by miles. I’m not wishing any doom on this woman. I’m going to throw her a big party when she grows older and realizes that she shouldn’t give shit about what guys like you think. Women often find their worth and freedom around 40. I don’t give a fuck what you think.

  182. Hedgepig

    More information for “another spinster auntie”: Jill’s a lesbian! Quick, gently suggest that she’s only gay because she couldn’t get a man.

    Now here’s a suggestion for you: get off Savage Death Island and go practice your funfeminism in Dude Nation where it, and you, belong.

  183. kristyn joy

    I apologize for apparently minimizing cancer. My comment was in response to a.s.a.’s hand-wringing about losing breasts, as if she were talking about losing children. “I couldn’t imagine losing mine, they are so dear to me.”

    The situation I proposed was meant to be taken to the existential extreme — suddenly someone has no breasts, but is healthy; it’s not like losing a child here — for which I offered no warning. Thus, I’m sorry.

    Another aspect of a mastectomy is, if you lose them to cancer … well, dude, if it’s the breasts or you that’s gotta go, you’re not going to sit around hand-wringing about your breasts.

    If it makes you feel any better, I’ve written on here about needing some form of uterine surgery that no doctor will sign off on. I’d love to lose my uterus, since it will improve my health a lot, but I’d understand if someone else in the same situation found the prospect untenable.

  184. Comrade Svilova

    @ tinfoil hattie: That’s the key, isn’t it? We’re supposed to wear “comfortably revealing” clothes like we “would wear anyway.” Part of “boobquake” seems to be the suggestion that sexualized clothing is completely normal for Western women. Of course, that’s true — but why would we want to further normalize objectification?

  185. Jezebella

    Unfortunately fat women *aren’t* supposed to wear “comfortably revealing” clothing even if they live the surface of the sun and they’d like to wear a little less. It’s a no-win situation, the whole clothing a female body thing.

  186. Jill

    I’m grateful that the fun, new ‘spinster aunt’ should desire that I pause for a moment to reflect on What My Double Mastectomy Means To Me. It had not occurred to me, prior to her helpful suggestion, to give it the slightest thought. But now I see that, because I have no cleavage to waggle at Dude Nation, my grasp of the patriarchal domination paradigm is essentially flawed. The moment they amputated my glands, my entire worldview became invalid!

    And that “muzzies” thing? Classy! I can’t wait to read what the fun, new spinster aunt will say next! Too bad I’ll never know, on accounta she’s banned. For being icky.

  187. Jill

    Yes. I am that RK.

    Prove it.

  188. mearl

    @ gayle: feel free to quote.

    Here’s a quote I rather liked from Tabatha Southey of the Globe and Mail:

    “And so when I read that an Iranian cleric, Hojjat ol-eslam Kazem Sediqi, said promiscuous women cause earthquakes, I was unmoved by yet another retelling of an old story – women’s sexuality or beauty is somehow at the root of all unpleasant things.

    “Many women who do not dress modestly lead young men astray and spread adultery in society, which increases earthquakes.” That’s the way the cleric explained it, which of course triggered an onslaught of twittered and blogged indignation.

    Indignation is perhaps the least productive, not to mention the least attractive of emotions. And at this point in history, I’m not sure women need to refute claims that our clothes cause significant geological events. We have bigger fish to fry.

    And if this cleric is alarmed that some women in Tehran have been showing a bit too much hair and wearing “tight coats” of late, and anyone, anywhere in the world shares his concern, we should probably just exploit that fact – we should cop to it. Why, merely by hinting at our potential collective slut-dressing powers, we might be able to effect real change. Later, if we were to find a way to militarize our wardrobes and their malfunctions, the world might finally become our oyster.

    A few months ago, I was sent a link to something that American Apparel calls a “Nylon Spandex Stretch Floral Lace Unitard.” Now just think about that for a moment: Nylon. Spandex. Stretch. Floral. Lace. Unitard.“God bless American Apparel,” I thought. “Call me when they fuse it with acid-washed denim.” And that point I wasn’t even aware that something of such questionable taste could potentially register on the Richter scale.

    Why, ladies, we could threaten to deploy this unitard whenever things were not going our way. Maybe just pull one out of our gym bags and wave it around a bit at the United Nations.”

  189. magriff

    Every time I see House on the teevee I think “Where the heck is Jeeves, and why is he letting Bertie act such an ass?”

  190. Jodie

    Kristin, I got what you meant. I hope you get your surgery soon.

  191. Awhirlinlondon

    What an astoundingly vile little troll. I don’t think he/she meant to be condescending at all. The ASA moniker strongly implies that it was all about goat-getting. The expression “Muzzies” was simply a horrible final fillip.

  192. speedbudget

    I can’t believe we are having another dustup here due to cleavage showing. I mean, really. If some people could just step back and objectively look at how tightly they are clinging to the idea that a bunch of ladies’ boobs MUST BE SEEN, I think (hope) some lightbulb would go off and they would realize this is just totally asinine.

    Personally, I look forward to Butt Cleavage To Stop Tsunamis. Boy howdy, I saw a great crack in the city the other day. I’m sure the earth stopped heaving long enough to take a gander.

  193. enough_is_enough

    Usually it’s men that hurl the ‘you’re just jealous’ comment to women.

  194. procrastinatrix

    @ kristyn joy, on reflection, I apologize for lumping my reply to you with my reply to another spinster aunt.

    Personally, your uterine situation doesn’t make me feel any better, I assure you :)

    I hope it all works out. As someone suffering from prolapse myself, with limited health insurance coverage, I can empathize, if my empathy is at all welcome. It’s a real drag.

  195. kristyn joy

    procrastinatrix, my comments did in fact seem trollish due to the recent high troll traffic.

    In fact, because I didn’t use the “@” tweetspeak to address my comments properly, one could even assume they were directed at JILL, and not at the phony spinster aunt (who was very possibly a dude).

    I see the doctor tomorrow, and another doctor in a week. Either they fix me or they don’t, and I’m not holding my breath — but I can live with it. The way we all just live with it,

  196. RK

    Your prose is better than your poetry.

  197. Orange

    Jill, what you said about the word “tart” was fantastic. Swear to god, you and I should team up to write a book about sexist words like that.

    Boobquake gave me the unprecedented opportunity to receive some mansplaining on Facebook. A male FB friend was pretty sure that Boobquake would send a strong message to religious fundamentalists everywhere, including the U.S. evangelicals he grew up under the sway of. I tried to rebut, but he mansplained that out-and-proud gays and beboobed women are rilly rilly effective. I do love having my feminist corrected by a male “sex-positive feminist.”

  198. Ciccina

    “My no doubt flawed take on the patriarchy is it is impossible for clothing of any description to be a protest against the patriarchy.”

    With one exception, of course. IBTP t-shirts!

  199. Jill

    Your prose is better than your poetry.

    Not good enough! This just proves you have good taste.

  200. RK

    I have a yellow MGB

  201. goblinbee

    yttik: “That’s a shame because Crystal Bowersox is rather awesome. This has been a season of genuine artistry, where Bowersox appears to be somewhat resistant to the idea of being portrayed as a sexual commodity first and a musician second.”

    Sadly, Bowersox has been looking uncomfortable in stilettos and/or tight, low-cut dresses for the past month. Her natural woman persona didn’t last long in Glamland.

  202. Amananta

    Indeed, it makes no sense that women in America continuing to dress in the “immodest” fashion that certain fanatics consider immodest makes absolutely zero difference to women in Saudi Arabia or Iran, regardless of the degree to which they do it. It merely makes a difference in one’s own personal comfort level and the kind of male attention one receives, and even that depends more on how the male in question decides to behave than what the woman is wearing.

    But its a lot easier to seek approval from the patriarchy by wearing low cut blouses than to support RAWA, I suppose. How do we really help women suffering from a particularly brutal form of patriarchy? They’ve told us, right here: http://www.rawa.org/help.htm

  203. Amananta

    That first sentence rambled on a lot and ended up being self-contradictory, sorry. I blame the new fun brain medication I’m on. No really. It makes one forget words and what one is doing from moment to moment and

  204. soopermouse

    Oh for fuck’s sakes
    Speaking of Iran

    NEW YORK — Without fanfare, the United Nations this week elected Iran to its Commission on the Status of Women, handing a four-year seat on the influential human rights body to a theocratic state in which stoning is enshrined in law and lashings are required for women judged “immodest.”

  205. polly

    For heavens sake, indeed. What is going on?

  206. speedbudget

    I have no words. WHY would they allow Iran a seat on that particular commission? Are they looking for pointers?

  207. polly

    NB McCreight is still claiming to be a scientist. Pity she doesn’t seem to understand scientific method.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/apr/29/boobquake-earthquake-immodest-dress-iran

    Needless to say, in the comments, some dude has pointed this out and said she needs to repeat the test frequently!

  208. soopermouse

    To quote one of my friends “maybe the UN just hates women”

  209. enough_is_enough

    Re: Tehran and UN stories

    Those girls from boobquake really showed them didn’t they.

  210. kristyn joy

    Nobody can win with breasts.

    My sleep-deprived thoughts thus — one could cease and desist the wearing of bras (beneath tee-shirts, even) and it would in an existential sense be a radical act because for most women, said breasts do not conform to patriarchal ideas, thus pornsick dudes everywhere would recoil in disgust.
    Of course, one is shot in the foot when one realizes that the ceasing and desisting of bra-wearing — the theoretical takedown of the status quo — would increase the amount of leering one would subject oneself to.

    So either wear a bra and conform to patriarchal ideals, or go braless and get stared at even more by pathetic weirdos (ie, men).
    We cannot win with breasts.

  211. Fliss

    Speedbudget, they probably are. Nothing should surprise us anymore!

    “So either wear a bra and conform to patriarchal ideals, or go braless and get stared at even more by pathetic weirdos (ie, men).”

    Which male behaviour is of course natural!

    In the natural world men wouldn’t give a crap about breasts, which aren’t even sex organs. Drooling and acting irrational about breasts I’m sure is 99% patriarchy engineered; making us feel uncomfortable and alienated, for the control. Taking it a step further the whole concept of male desire for females is a fabrication of the Patrix. It gets them out of a lot of shit and gives them a get-out-of-jail free card for their hatred of women. It allows them, ‘uncontrolled’ and apparently ‘unable to think clearly’, this freedom to be irrational, cruel and out of the spotlight. Clever moves.

    Male desire for women is a complete joke.

  212. Fliss

    p.s. Sorry about the essay, I haven’t put it up because it’s nothing special. I link the prevalent anti- feminist attitude to social ‘socially condoned bullying’. Feminism and people taking issue with sexism are currently the victim of bullying behaviour, used and accepted from politicians to close friends. Why it’s important to get spaces like this as the socially condoned-bullies (90% of the population identifying as the opposite of feminist to ‘survive’) see less rigid moderating policies as a window to leer, mock and control. They get into survival mode.

  213. Fliss

    Understanding bullying and the theories around it will probably help you to understand anti-feminist reactions.

  214. Fliss

    And why it’s important we see the ‘I don’t get it – explain to me’ nonsense in the right light; and see strict feminist moderating policies as Godsend.

    (Last of my rambling tonight!)

  215. Hermionemone

    @kristyn joy wrote:
    — one could cease and desist the wearing of bras (beneath tee-shirts, even) and it would in an existential sense be a radical act because for most women, said breasts do not conform to patriarchal ideas, thus pornsick dudes everywhere would recoil in disgust.

    That gets me to thinking: how about wearing subversive bras, that deliberately exaggerate P-nonconformity, they’d still be bras, but engineered to make the objectifying viewer recoil all the more.

    For example, one up, one down, one hugely padded, one compressed to flatness, how about cube-shaped, potato(e)-shaped, five-headed-squid-shaped? They’d still be bras, but anyone who peered and leered would veer off the pier into sheer fear at the sight of a queer brassiere.

    Despite the temptation, we’ll leave Germaine out of the rhyme. She did have something to say about all this from way back. She was wrong about a few things, myself included.

    I think a weird bra parade would be fun, perhaps oddly affirmative. Go ahead and look, we dare ya! Lumpy spanx, twisted hosiery, grotesque footwear, all to camouflage who’s hot and who’s not (only her hairdresser knows for sure)

  216. kristyn joy

    “Male desire for women is a complete joke.”

    Agreed. This blamer recently wrote an essay that posits most if not all male “desire” for “females” is not actually desire for sex but desire for ownership. As if vaginas were Snuggies and to every man, every woman is his mother.

    “anyone who peered and leered would veer off the pier into sheer fear at the sight of a queer brassiere.”

    Ten points for wordplay. Twenty more points for the idea. Upon first inspection, it has its merits, although of course (like everything a woman can possibly do in the P) it has its drawbacks as well. Further reflection is necessary.

  217. Ciccina

    Why is it that highly intelligent women who really do know better sometimes fall back on talking about “men” as if they are all heterosexual? Seriously.

    @ Fliss, thanks for the tip on looking into theories of bullying re: silencing feminists – that sounds really interesting.

  218. kristyn joy

    Do you mean, talking as though men are all heterosexual, or women?

    Even us queers have to encounter them on the street. I don’t mean to speak for you, but they stare at me when I do. Typically my breasts, but often my thighs too.

  219. Jill

    Well, gay men aren’t exempt from patriarchal conditioning. They’ve internalized misogyny as well as the next guy.

  220. Saphire

    @Jill

    Haha – just look at sexist loser Graham Norton. He’s gay and if *he* doesn’t hate women with his brand of comedy then I don’t know who does.

  221. Saphire

    Also, gay men still benefit from that privilege of being male. There is still the fact they can join in on the laughs about us and frankly not give a damn.

  222. Kiuku

    I agree with Fliss and Ciccina. Misogyny is internal, or internalized. Homosexuality is pretty universal among men, and the degree of misogyny in the culture is directly related to the degree of expression of their homosexuality, covert, or otherwise. And men’s violence is also an exprssion of their homosexuality, so it’s very convenient for very homosexual men to beat up on other homosexual men in lieu of actually having sex with them.

  223. kristyn joy

    Some dudes even use their homo status as an excuse to hate on women even harder (cough, Dan Savage).

    We can only take pleasure in knowing at least those dudes never expect to get their peens near any woman’s vagina.

    That being said, some gay and queer guys have taken it upon themselves to actually study gender, link their oppression to that of women, etc. However, I doubt they would do it if, say, THEY weren’t being oppressed. Otherwise they would have no interest in examining, much less questioning, the status quo. Patriarchy benefits men, all men, far too much for that.

    Perhaps I am a cynic, but you know who to blame.

  224. Kiuku

    yea, how do we deal with the psychological effects of atleast 1/2 the population hating you. It’s almost like you have to become a hermit and misanthropist. It’s like watching people eat a banquet you’re not invited to 24/7. Atleast in the west we aren’t slaves, for the most part can choose between poverty and servitude, which often means more psychological abuse and spiritual death than poverty, and sometimes it’s both at once. Feminism and dissecting the patriarchy seems to help; atleast to know that there are other women that get it and are freed from the Patrix.

  225. Kiuku

    Personally I know I have an advantaged position as being able to play along in the patriarchy, being white. Some women do not even have that option. I can actually attempt to gain status in the Patriarchy, the game men have to play which involves acting and pretending to do or know things, gain friends etc. It’s actually kind of interesting that people base their opinions on what other people think of you, which sets women at a disadvantage, since people routinely think low of women, or depreciate their value and their actions subject to greater negative scrutiny. I know I can sell out and have a somewhat better life in term of luxury, but I don’t. I won’t. The reward in pissing off men who can’t do anything about it without breaking their own laws and freedom and rights they hold so precious is far better than living in comfort. I won’t wear a dress. I won’t care about men, or the world they’ve made, as they destroy the entire planet.

  226. Kiuku

    Universally, among both men and women in the patriarchy, social life, status, and success becomes a matter of pretending, and when you’re a woman, the liklihood that disallusionment has set in so deep, to make it a virtual impossibility to will oneself to pretend, is strong. So becoming a hermit is the ideal situation, as you can just do what you want, be industrious to your ownself, and not be bothered with people’s lack of perspective, honesty, or enlightenment.

  227. Kiuku

    I just want to have fun. I want to be healthy and have fun and breathe clean air. Men make it impossible to have fun. They made and maintain a world of misery, in which there is only a moderate amount of mundane fun to be had, and they are the only ones that can have it. They have something against having fun and just enjoying oneself. It shouldn’t be this way. There aren’t limited resources. They’ve been saying that for thousands of years and look how many people we have now.

    btw, what are they saying about how boobquake worked?

  228. Hermionemone

    Kiuku asks “btw, what are they saying about how boobquake worked?”

    As of 2010/05/04 0645 GMT, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boobquake says:
    <>
    So, it worked just fine for guys with cell phones, who were noble enough to show support for the feminist cause, and record the historic moment on behalf of all mankind.

  229. Hermionemone

    Hmmm, my quotations didn’t work, here they are again:

    Purdue’s student newspaper reported that the female participants were outnumbered by male spectators.

    In Vancouver, it was reported that most attendees at the event were hundreds of ogling men using camera phones to take pictures, especially of a small number of women who were topless.

  230. Sandra

    Men can actually lactate too (sometimes spontaneously due to hormonal issues). Tell those misogynist men that their nipples ain’t fer nothin’! ;)

  231. Saphire

    Kiuku your posts read like an interesting book. Very good and accurate theories.

    I think all women live their true, fun selves as hermits, only to make a dark comment now and again about the patriarchy. Men want our true selves to be hidden – they don’t want people to see women as fun. A woman without any visible traits of being beaten down by the patriarchy is a threat – because in her he sees undeniably an equal creature, his superior. Mens’ tricks have worked so well the world has yet to see what a true woman looks like.

    I also greatly hate the world because of how it downplays the effect of sexism on women. I can see the psychological torment in even the boldest, most ridiculous female tools of the P. Yet everyone still laughs about the irony. We’re being bludgeoned, value scraped away in almost everything we look at – and people out there are still contemplating whether it’s for luls or not.

  232. Kiuku

    Yours reads like an interesting book. I think mine reads like an angry manifesto :). Life is too short to not do hermitage or to be angry. It’s a give and take game.

  233. Hermionemone

    Kiuku, I have found fun in the company of women, in two unlikely and opposite corners of the boldness/femininity spectrum.

    Belly dance (roll your eyes if you must) empowerfulizes (I love that word) all the gals in my dance troupe, because we represent a substantial diversity in body forms and all do pretty well at being graceful and beautiful when we dance. Tall, short, slender, wide, curvy, not-so-curvy, we’re all amazingly cute in our way. It has really helped me with my own body-image acceptance. We dance, usually in plain yoga-wear, for ourselves and other, mostly female, dance enthusiasts, although when we wear the fancy sparkly costumes for actual performances we are the epitome of feminine excess. It’s kind of fun doing the girl-drag, knowing it’s all pretend. Any men in our lives hardly come to our dance shows after the 3rd or 4th time — maybe they’re just not interested if it’s not all about them.

    The other place I find fun in a primarily all-women environment is bicycling. We have an all-girl bike club, and do mostly trail rides (mountain biking). Some of us do endurance racing, downhill and stunt riding. We often wear the spandex, but it’s functional athletic wear appropriate to the sport. We are embodied creatures, and our muscles and lithe bodies are reflections of our power and the means of expressing our energy. Guys in the other bike clubs joke about trying to join us or merge clubs, but they treat us with a certain level of respect because we’re self-sufficient and able to perform at a high level in their sport on their turf. Mostly we just ride by ourselves and have fun on our own, no men required, although, you know, male bikers are really not such a bad bunch, and they do have nice tight buns!

  234. Saphire

    ‘we’re all amazingly cute in our way’

    So no matter your weight, age, position in society, waggle that midriff around in a sexy way! And even *you* can feel, even if you don’t look it, like an attractive cute 12 year old.

    I agree finding feminine friends is nice, just like having any nice female friends is nice. I’m feminine – because I have a naturally squeaky soft voice and feminine, weak movements. Not something I can help. I only hate when femininity is preached as radical feminism and something to be enjoyed as a cult movement to combat the patriarchy.

    I know why women jump on super- extreme feminine rituals – being overly obsesssed with fashion, SATC style. Women try to be comfortable in skin the patriarchy gives them while getting into a comfort zone.

    Being observant, I’d say my friends try to combat the patriarchy by being super- girly, recently developing a passion for everything Disney and boy bands. I can see why they do it. And it’s one of the few ways we can seem to be making an active defence – saying we LOVE being women, men are stupid and would never be able to like things like Disney. We like pink, and men won’t be able to.

    But anyone here will tell you why being uber feminine (naturally this is fine) to make a point has men laughing, and other girls joining in to say how much they also hate women – ‘cos all they talk about is ‘make up, boys and shopping”. It plays right into p’s hands. And it’s unnatural. Any way we’re forced to be unnatural to fight isn’t a way of fighting.

  235. Laima

    I haven’t worn a bra since high school. (I’m now 43.) I’ve never worn a “cleavage-baring” top, though, because you have to have a lot more breast tissue than I do to even have cleavage. No male has ever leered at my chest, not that I’m complaining. And in fact, I’ve been mistaken for a guy many times, even when wearing a skirt, or jewelry. Something about being confident, or tall, or unapologetically taking up space seems to confuse people about my gender.

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