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May 31 2010

MRAs on parade: chumpass motherfucker declares ownership of girlfriend’s uterus

It’s always the way: some horndog dude decides to prong a woman, then ends up dissatisfied with the results. So he has a tantrum. The tantrum may take one, or a combination, of many interesting forms.

Sometimes the woman doesn’t want him around anymore, so he stalks her. Sometimes she makes him hate her so much that he emails naked pictures of her to the whole school. Sometimes she gets old or fat so he keeps her around to do his laundry but starts pronging a younger woman on the DL. Sometimes she stops putting out so he fires her from her job. Sometimes the woman interprets the pronging as rape, so he calls her a liar and tortures her with mental cruelty and courtroom drama and ends up doing no jail time.

And sometimes he makes the woman pregnant. In this case he can choose from many, many popular options. He might he murder her, beat her, abandon her, marry her, slut-shame her, or, as in today’s case, appeal to the patriarchal justice system to enforce his wishes as to what should be done with the contents of her personal uterus.

I allude to Greg Bruell, a dude who, having some time ago made the personal decision to father no further children, proceeded to prong his girlfriend anyway (as reported in Salon).

Here I interject some No.1 Science Information, information that, had Greg Bruell been apprised of it, might have prevented all of his piteous suffering. That information is this: heterosexual pronging ranks Number One in the World as the most efficacious method of all time for obtaining pregnancy. You might think Greg Bruell had been at least dimly aware of the consequences of heterosexual pronging, since he has already fathered two children. However, Greg Bruell has apparently failed to grasp the connection between his lusty throbbing and the pitter-patter of little feet. Men, who are born with the right to prong anything that moves, are not typically required to understand this kind of cause and effect, since, as I mentioned above, they can easily oil out of any untoward consequences of their actions merely by invoking any of the buttload of traditional exemptions: claiming ignorance, deceit, she asked for it, she cuckolded him, or — an oldie but goodie — that the burden of pregnancy is totally a chick problem.

Anyway, Greg Bruell claims that he and his girlfriend agreed that she would terminate her next pregnancy “without waffling.” So when she boldly asserted human agency, kept the kid, and sued him for child support, Bruell blew a wheel. His gambit for oiling out of his responsibility? He owns the uterus! The National Center for Men took up the cause, saying (according to Salon):

“When a man and woman have discussed what they want and have an agreement, I do not think she has a right to impose her change of mind.”

You heard that right. The “I” in the above quotation is our old pal, antifeminist knob Mel Feit, who thinks women don’t have a right to change their minds.

Taken to its logical conclusion, this crackpot ideology would turn all women’s interactions with men into legally binding contracts permitting men to use them according to their whim. The contracts can be verbal (“She didn’t say ‘no’!”), sartorial (“she dressed like a whore so my hands were tied!), alcoholical (“if she didn’t want to have sex she shouldn’t have passed out at my party”), or body-language-ical (“she winked at me. What was I supposed to do, not rape her?”).

If for some unexplained reason you acquiesce to sex with a dude, and then, after reconsidering, change your mind three minutes later, tough shit, lady. He doesn’t have to stop, because you already said yes. It won’t be rape, because you already said yes. A yes, once given, exists in perpetuity! It’s a binding contract.

How is this possible in the tiny mind of Mel Feit? Well, according to the Global Accords Governing Fair Use of Women, women exist in a perpetual state of “yes.” This state of “yes” extends not only to sexual availability, but to compliance with male wishes in any quarter, across the board. To wit:

Bruell’s girlfriend supposedly agreed she would have an abortion if he ever knocked her up again. At that moment of yes, according to the Feit, this woman gave up her own autonomy and ceded control of her personal sovereignty to representative of the state Greg Bruell. Because she had agreed to be an occasional receptacle for his ejaculate, her uterus actually became the property of Greg Bruell. Greg Bruell thinks his ownership of the uterus should have afforded him the opportunity to force her to abort the fetus. And now that she’s defied his authority and had the kid anyway, he’s claiming she “deceived” him.

What? No!

Hey Greg Bruell: your genetic material is under your jurisdiction only as long as you keep it locked up in your gunk box. The instant you give your sticky little wad its joyous send-off, and the two of you part company, its fate becomes the purview of another host body. It is no longer your property, and you can’t say dick about what happens to it. However, it’s only fair that you should pay a fine for littering.

Don’t want women suing you for child support? Zip it up, you fucking dipshit!

Why can’t the same argument be turned around and applied to women?

Because women are an oppressed class without fully human status. The pervasiveness and normalization of rape culture strips women of the same quality of autonomy that men enjoy. Women are not always permitted to opt out of perpetual sexual availability without suffering harmful consequences.

Because, in other words, of the patriarchy.

This Mel Feit guy, in case you’ve forgotten, is the author of much virulent misogynist MRA crap. Such as these gems:

“At a certain point during arousal, we don’t have complete control over our ability to stop. To equate that with brutal, violent rape weakens the whole concept of rape.” [cite]

Because, duh, men should define rape.

“When will public discussions about sexuality recognize that, in this culture, women already make most of the decisions about sexual intercourse?” [ibid.]

Even if this were true — a fantastical contingency is almost too ludicrous to contemplate — what would be so terrible about it? Since women are forced to bear all the consequences of “sexuality”– from self-destructive beauty practices torape, pregnancy, child-rearing, and beyond, it would make the most sense if women actually did have some power in this quarter.

Only women have the extraordinary freedom to enjoy sexual intimacy free from the fear of forced parenthood. [cite]

Whaoah! That’s a hot one! Obviously, by “women with extraordinary freedom” he means “mythical creatures whose legal right to an abortion is not obstructed at every turn by puritanical godbag misogynist legislation.”

But I am a Western, privileged internet feminist, which means that all I care about is clothes, so here is my favorite:

[...] A woman has a greater freedom when she gets dressed in the morning. She can wear what she wants to wear because she can be what she wants to be. She can wear traditionally male clothing because she can do traditionally male things, work in traditionally male jobs, assume traditionally male roles and personality traits. She can cross over into a man’s world, share men’s experiences, then return to a world where no men are allowed. You might say she can choose to wear the pants in the family. She has free choice in fashion because she has free choice in life. [cite]

Mel Feit is bummed out on accounta a supposedly feminist woman in a pair of pants told him she wouldn’t fuck him because — I do not lie — he likes to wear skirts. This unspeakable tragedy has forced Mel Feit to dream up all kinds of wacky fantasies about how liberating it is to be a woman in our society, and about how selfish women are for refusing to share our magnificent skirt-freedoms with him.

Jesus in a jetpack, like anyone really gives a shit if Mel fucking Feit wears a skirt! I will personally donate all of my skirts to Mel Feit, if he will just promise to wear them to all future christenings, bar mitzvas, weddings, business meetings, and talk show tapings.

O if only I had all day to huddle at the desk and make fun of old skirt-coveting Mel Feit who can’t get laid by women in pants. But unfortunately I’ve got to sit around and watch the grass grow.

[Thanks, Ashley]

86 comments

1 ping

  1. sargassosea

    Grass is much better company anyway.

  2. Catherine Martell

    Oh, Jill, you are on fire. I am weeping slightly with bellylaughing over Mel Feit in his skirts. Aww, Mel, go on with your bad self. All taqueaux should wear whatever they damn well please. But I really don’t think the cross-dressing thing is the most serious obstacle to women liking you. I doubt Eddie Izzard has a problem getting a date.

    As for the zip-it-up point, and:

    “Why can’t the same argument be turned around and applied to women?”

    Women can’t always opt out of perpetual sexual availability, and furthermore they can’t opt out of being the body that has to do nine months’ incubation time. There is a massive biological difference in the workload of child production between the two categories of people who can at present reproduce: people who produce eggs, and people who produce sperm. This difference makes the argument impossible to reverse.

    If Greg Bruell had a functioning womb and ovaries, I would most certainly argue for his complete jurisdiction over them. If medical science progresses to the extent that he can have all that jazz implanted and made functional, I shall argue for exactly that. Any man who knocks Greg Bruell up should of course bear half of the cost of his pregnancy – and of the upbringing of any resulting child Bruell raises.

  3. c2t2

    In a fair world, I suppose there could be some kind of “male abortion”. Say, if a man provides the necessary funds early enough in the pregnancy for a safe pregnancy termination, and by doing so waive all rights and responsibilities.

    Which is ridiculous; this is not a fair world.

  4. Jezebella

    That would not be a “male abortion” by any stretch of the imagination. Only people with inhabited uteri can get abortions. It would be doing what’s only fair and right when a dude accidentally knocks up a lady he pronged.

    I hope you don’t mean to suggest a man with enough cash could demand a woman get an abortion, even if she doesn’t want one, or that the offer of $1000 in the first trimester would then negate any future responsibilities. Because both of those ideas are unacceptable.

  5. Jerry

    Greg, there is a thing for men who have made the personal decision to father no further children. It’s called a vasectomy.

  6. stingray

    Snip snip, Greg! I’ll do it for you, and if at any time you decide to reverse it I’ll sue you. It would only be fair.

  7. Denise

    Child support is for the child. You don’t get to opt out of taking care of a human being you were instrumental in creating just by offering the mother $400 as soon as you heard she was pregnant.

  8. TwissB

    This case continues to baffle me despite JillPsmith’s magisterial (Definitions 1a & 1b) analysis. Putting aside all questions about why the woman was sexually involved with the obnoxious Greg, and why she chose to maintain a pregnancy consisting of 50% obnoxious Greg, I don’t understand why she wants to have anything further to do with him. Of course he has no ownership of the pregnancy, but I also do not see why she has any financial claim on him, much less why she would want to have any connection with him legalized in the form of child support payments. I’m not shy about remaking law, starting with the Constitution, to serve women’s needs, but I can’t see the logic of doing it in this case. Any woman ‘splainers care to point out where I went wrong on this?

  9. Denise

    TwissB – maybe because it’s expensive to raise a kid?

  10. Jill

    “I also do not see why she has any financial claim on him, much less why she would want to have any connection with him legalized in the form of child support payments.”

    She doesn’t have the claim on him; the kid does. The mother is merely doing the responsible thing and advocating for the unfortunate unwanted tyke. Maybe it needs a new pair of shoes.

    Given that, regardless of intentions or MRA-endorsed contracts, a pregnancy outcome is not the unlikeliest of results of when doin’ the nasty, claiming after the fact that you only signed up for recreational sex is not a reasonable or humane option.

  11. Compcat

    I think we should start training women very early on to offer stupid Greg B type arguments back when being offered them, especially when being offered them in court. Oh sure, there’s no way for her to prove that she never agreed to have an abortion if knocked up.

    However, I also gently offer that there is no way for Greg B to prove that he never told her that he was infertile. Heck, infertility is what I’d assume if some guy wanted a relationship with intercourse with a girlfriend, but who also insisted upon 0% chance of pregnancy. I’m talking a massive DBCP exposure, or not so tragic biking accident here.

    The only reason Greg B is able to make this argument at all without being laughed at as being to immature to have sex with anyone but himself is because men are not currently held responsible for their own reproductive abilities before they knock somebody up, so it’s a huge shock to them when they get a monthly bill for eighteen years after they get somebody pregnant.

  12. Bushfire

    The best case scenario for the little tyke, of course, would be state-sponsored child care and government benefits for child-raising. That will happen during our wildest dreams, but, during waking hours, men need to pay child support or else all sorts of children would be starving. I mean, more than are already.

  13. mearl

    Jill hits the nail on the head. If men don’t want to be personally or financially implicated in a fatherhood they didn’t intend on, then they should simply get a vasectomy or abstain from sex. They don’t get to cry “abortion!” because, as Catherine Martell so aptly put it, men are not in possession of ‘the body that has to do nine months’ incubation time.’ Therefore, they have no choice in the matter once the pregnancy has occurred.

    There is nothing more infuriating than this worldwide culture wherein men believe they have the right to run around boinking anyone and everyone with impunity because of their INSATIABLE MANLY NEEDS, and in addition to this they labour under the impression that they get to decide the fate of the women they boink.

    The whole “I shouldn’t have to pay child support because that slut tricked me” line is tied in to similarly illogical falsehoods such as “men need sex” and “once they’re at a certain point of arousal, men can’t really control themselves.”
    All of the above are employed to avoid responsibility, shift it over to the woman, or just to blame women in general. Amusingly enough, the simple solution is to keep in it their pants, or be responsible from the get-go.

    I’m still waiting to hear about the guy who was SO OVERTAKEN by his physiological NEED for orgasm that he kept on going even while a Rottweiler attacked his leg, a car thief jacked his BMW right before his eyes, or his parents walked in.

  14. janna

    @Bushfire Public school? Not that the government pays enough for that, either.

  15. maddy

    “She doesn’t have the claim on him; the kid does. The mother is merely doing the responsible thing and advocating for the unfortunate unwanted tyke”

    The “tyke” does not exist at the time abortion is being advocated. As long as abortion is legal, fetuses can’t make claims about anything, or else the first thing they’d be asking for is to not be aborted.

  16. KJB

    This is why I remain un-pronged.

    Only women have the extraordinary freedom to enjoy sexual intimacy free from the fear of forced parenthood.

    Fixed!

  17. Hector B.

    Let us enter Bizarro World — where remote control of a woman’s uterus can be purchased — for a moment. What did chumpass promise to do in exchange for her alleged promise to abort any resulting pregnancy? Contracts require “consideration” from both parties. A naked promise is unenforceable. Chumpass’s sperm is not consideration because he will not let her make use of it.

  18. Tree

    I’m all for reverse-abortions. I believe the economy package starts at $20 million.

  19. c2t2

    Jezebella: I hope you don’t mean to suggest a man with enough cash could demand a woman get an abortion, even if she doesn’t want one, or that the offer of $1000 in the first trimester would then negate any future responsibilities. Because both of those ideas are unacceptable.

    Of course not. That was my point. My argument was simply that ‘all other things being equal- except all other things are not and have never been equal’. In fact, physiology being what it is, it might not even be possible.

  20. Jill

    “The “tyke” does not exist at the time abortion is being advocated.

    True, but the fetus was not, in fact, aborted, and has since become a sentient being dependent on responsible adults and/or douchebags for its survival. You seem to be suggesting that Bruell’s having demanded an abortion actually figures into the scenario. But that dude’s views on his girlfriend’s pregnancy are irrelevant. Why should the girlfriend be under the slightest obligation to allow a second party (Bruell) to order her to undergo a surgical procedure in an effort to control the contents of her personal uterus?

    Please note that my pro-girlfriend stance here in no way reflects my general views on human reproduction, an enterprise I find distasteful and irresponsible on every level. I merely support the right of a fully human person to defend her personal organs from oppression by douchebags.

  21. humanbein

    Great post. I’ve been musing on the idea that men believe fervently that their attraction to women is a burden imposed on them by women’s devious use of their own beauty to force men into submission. It goes all the way from I had to rape her because she was dressed like a slut, and then I had to kill her because she might have told on me, to the lofty and romantic ideas of courtly, unrequited love. Just different points of the same continuum of objectification.

    Here’s a song about it:

    http://feministfred.com/songs/Unrequited.mp3

  22. nails

    Men affect women when they impregnate them, and women have to deal with the pregnancy. It is a risky and uncomfortable thing that can get women fired. When women make a choice about their pregnancy they are only seriously affecting the fetus. It is a world of difference for me, and is why the keep it in yer pants argument isn’t equally applicable.

  23. Jezebella

    Humanbein, you’ve just described the entirety of the opera Carmen, and probably a few others.

  24. yttik

    Apparently Greg Bruell is a real piece of work because the NY times blog claims he is planning to marry the woman who “misled” him and he has frequent visitation with the child he doesn’t want.

    The original elle article is something too:

    http://www.elle.com/paternalrights

    I guess he made charts and pressured his former wife into having children for him. Needless to say Bruell seems rather obsessed with his right to be in complete control of women’s reproduction at all times.

  25. Bushfire

    @Janna

    Yes, public school does serve that purpose. However, there are five years of human growth before public school begins where there is no state-sponsored child care available. There are also before and after school times that can require a babysitter if the parent(s) is/are at work. I have heard socialists propose that people engaged full time in childcare should get paid for it. I have no expectation that that will happen, but wouldn’t it be a great idea for after the feminist revolution? If we’re still using currency then.

  26. Notorious Ph.D.

    Just read the interview linked just above. Ayn Rand and “rugged individualism” show up on screen two. Enough said.

  27. Ashley

    thanks Jill!! I needed that. :) sorry for the emoticon

    I was by the pool at my apartments when I spied the article in Elle (yeah, yeah). the one part that swelled my own personal lobe was not listed on Salon, but it was, and I motherfucking quote:

    “Reproductive choice isn’t a fundamental right if it only applies to women.”

    Followed by some bullshit about how it’s not fair that only “people” with “internal reproductive organs” get to make abortion decisions. then there was this:

    “if a father is willing to legally commit to raising a child with no help from the mother, he should be able to obtain an injunction against an abortion.”

    that guy is the biggest thumb-sucking douche ever to grace the pages of any magazine and quite possibly the earth. he can kiss my entire ass. my lobe blew so hard they’re still swiping goopy pieces of it out of the pool with one of those long-handled screen things.

  28. Shelby

    Because chumpass motherfucker has chosen to avoid taking responsibility for avoidance of conception, not only should chumpass motherfucker have absolutely no say in woman’s choice to run the pregnancy to term or to terminate I further submit that once chumpass motherfucker’s appendage enters by invitation or trespass woman’s orifice, said appendage becomes the property of woman to keep, destroy or return at will.

  29. Hector B.

    OK, now I’ve read the elle article: While neither Bruell nor Feit believes a man should be able to compel a woman to abort or keep a pregnancy, they don’t want the state to make men pay for children they’ve made explicit they don’t want.

    For guys who inexplicably want to do the thing that makes babies without wanting to support the inevitable babies, the obvious solution would be child support insurance — 0 to 18 plus college and professional school to say, age 30. They would have to sit down with their insurance agent and describe their sex lives in detail so that an appropriate premium could be calculated. Women could ask to see guys’ proof of insurance just as if they were Highway Patrol. In case of pregnancy women would receive regular monthly checks, without having to see chumpass motherfucker again.

    Letting his insurance company support his child would likely raise a guy’s rates into the stratosphere, however, making future intercourse prohibitively expensive.

  30. Lady K

    Hector B. knows where it’s at.

  31. Cassie

    Hey

    I thought I would jump in and offer my support. I am new to this debate actually, I only recently realised when perusing MRA blogs that this was actually an issue. I never thought that someone forcing me to go through with a pregnancy would actually come up as a men’s rights campaign. I just started up a blog, if you are interested in my feminist leanings stop by:

    http://afeministopentocriticism.blogspot.com/

  32. mearl

    And of course, all those stand-up guys out there, the ones who want to peen-prong women with impunity, would sit down with their insurance agents and describe their sex lives (hearsay, no proof) as EARNESTLY and TRUTHFULLY as possible. Just like they tell the truth about their sex lives to the women they are peen-pronging.

    OR men could just keep it in their pants and divest themselves of a sense of entitlement to recreational-sex-with-no-strings-attached. If they can’t do that, then child support it is.

    Peen-prongers can just go ahead and cry me a puddle.

  33. SelinaK

    “I’m still waiting to hear about the guy who was SO OVERTAKEN by his physiological NEED for orgasm that he kept on going even while a Rottweiler attacked his leg, a car thief jacked his BMW right before his eyes, or his parents walked in.”

    HA! Great point Mearl. Also how the uncontrollable urge seems very easily kept in check when watching women in strip clubs or getting lap dances if there’s a big beefy bouncer ready to kick his ass if he tries anything.

  34. speedbudget

    TwissB: I think I know why she’s doing it.

    Needless to say Bruell seems rather obsessed with his right to be in complete control of women’s reproduction at all times.

    I imagine she had it up to here with Greg’s bullshit and when she got knocked up from the most likely bad sex he most likely coerced on her on most occasions, she figured the BEST WAY EVER to make his sorry ass pay for being such a dick for so long is to not only wrest control of her personal uterus back from him but to REALLY hit him where it hurts, in his wallet, every single month.

    I would do the same damn thing.

  35. Jill

    Speedbudget lampoons a popular misogynist stereotype often used by MRAs who yearn to control women: the conniving bitch with the revenge pregnancy using an innocent baby as a hapless pawn in her evil schemes.

  36. allhellsloose

    Well Greg, it’s been suggested before but needs to be suggested again as MRAs like you tend not to listen to what women say. Heaven help us if we don’t listen to YOU though. Just one solution old chap. Vasectomy. However I would decline the generous offers from the posters on this page, writes she smirking, and would urge you to go to your urologist (fast becoming a female dominated speciality – delicious irony).

    Oh, and everything Shelby said with sprinkles on top.

  37. Antoinette Niebieszczanski

    Strange, isn’t it, how often men fail to avail themselves of the keep-it-in-your-pants method of contraception. I daresay that method is the only one that can claim 100 percent effectiveness.

  38. Cyberwulf

    The best part of the story is that Bruell and his girlfriend already dealt with one pregnancy through abortion. And yet it STILL didn’t occur to him to get snipped.

    The worst part is that I know several Liberal, ostensibly pro-choice Dudes who, on reading this story, would hem and haw and say stupid things like “oh well they did sort of agree, it is a bit deceitful of her to suddenly change her mind”.

  39. yttik

    Marriage as a way to avoid paying child support is surprisingly common. Once they’re married he’ll continue being the jobless stay at home dad, and she’ll likely be sent to work to support not only the kids, but him too. He’ll keep her trapped in poverty by controlling the purse strings, and making a well reasoned argument that 90% of her wages must go towards him and the kids. This will help protect His trust fund, which is of course His nest egg. Saddest of all, this will all somehow seem quite rational to her, for a while anyway. First wife will also continue to pay him child support.

    Is there a Hallmark card for something like this? On this happiest of occasions, may we all congratulate you on landing such a fine catch? My sincerest condolences on your upcoming nuptials?

    Or perhaps the future marriage is a figment of his imagination? One can only hope.

  40. Sophie

    But they don’t even *have* to keep it in their pants or get the snip. Greg: there’s this amazing invention called the ‘condom’!

  41. nails

    Well, condoms have a failure rate. Having sex that isn’t of the penis in vagina variety is extremely effective, though, and an option available to all the dudes in question.

  42. nails

    Condoms have a failure rate. They could just resist the variety of pronging that results in pregnancy. There are many other options available.

  43. j

    We really need a radfem word list on the web! I looked up “pronging” on urbandictionary.com with unsatisfactory results. That site is absolutely chockfull of misogynist terms, which makes me realize how much more words we need that describe female experiences. Words related to sex are an obvious example, but also other experiences. Like this: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Grunch

  44. yttik

    “They could just resist the variety of pronging that results in pregnancy.”

    Indeed, like having sex with their own selves.

  45. sargassosea

    Sex with themselves is not satisfactory in and of itself because it’s kind of hard for dudes to dominate themselves, no?

  46. Notorious Ph.D.

    I think what yttik was trying to say was:

    “They can go [have sex with] themselves.”

    At least, that’s how I choose to read it.

  47. sargassosea

    Notorious – That’s the way I took it too.

    Now confessing to a rhetorical “no?”.

  48. Lexie

    I know this doesn’t exactly work, but wouldn’t the reverse corrollary be that if male and female decided together that they want no more kids pre-prong…then the female could force the male to get a vasectomy? And if he changed his mind (or just refused to allow his bits to be medically intruded upon) then she could leave the little Oops! on his doorstep and run away, never to be heard from again?

    What? Women and/or the state don’t have the right to insist on intrusive medical procedures on men’s own personal body parts? Parish the thought!

  49. allhellsloose

    I know this is off topic. Please let me rant. I’ve nowhere else to go.

    Titles are patriarchial, Ms, Mrs, Mr, Dr, Rev, Father (catholic hangover). Hate the chumpass motherfucker lot of them. I want to do serious harm to someone who presumes I’m a Mr. Why? Because I’ve said something sensible? Big boy’s underpants. We women are a bright bunch. Oh yes.

    I thank you. That feels way better.

  50. rubysecret

    Hector’s insurance idea is seminal (pun intended.)
    Also, ‘where’s the outrage’ from MRAs that there’s still no male pill?

  51. tinfoil hattie

    “When women make a choice about their pregnancy they are only seriously affecting the fetus.”

    My sides are splitting over here. Pregnancy, she said helpfully, affects the fetus-bearer for at least nine months and often for the rest of her life.

    “Yes, public school does serve that purpose.”

    Public school is not child care, though we insist on treating it that way.

  52. nails

    I am sorry I should have said when women choose to have abortions. You are right, tinfoil hattie.

  53. Ashley

    I have to come back and say that the thing that still, two days later, has me pissed at this guy is this= if some douche lord outright exclaims that abortions should not be allowed, I can stamp “douche” on his forehead and move on. But when a highly popular woman’s magazine publishes this kind of stuff under the pretext of open-mindedness, it pisses me off way more because i know that young women everywhere who are the inheritors of the feminist movement but who may not have a correct understanding of it will read the article and think that he has some logic, because he uses the word “person” instead of “woman” or “man,” and in the new lexicon of post gender (as if) dynamics that makes you non-sexist, and will possibly move forward in their lives thinking men have rights in these matters.

    men and women aren’t equal. feminism has never said we are. we’re not the same, we’re not equal, and certain shit applies to women fundamentally that will never apply to men. it’s still a right, and no amount of 2010 gender blind bullshit can change it. I hate-hate-hate that this asshole has figured out how to play the new social dynamic to the advantage of MRAs.

    shutting the piehole.

  54. Ashley

    and when I say not equal, obviously I refer to the fact that women created men and all human life, and men suck ass and ruin everything they touch.

  55. TwissB

    Many interesting aspects (e.g. Shelby,SargassoSea,Yttik), but the facts keep pointing inescapably to the conclusion that he is a rotter and she is a fool for having anything to do with him. What he did or did not tell her about his intentions and what he did or did not tell her to do about the pregnancy is irrelevant. She unaccountably chose to complete a pregnancy that she could have kindly aborted. The child is now hers to keep or give away to the raggle taggle gypsies, O – which might be doing it a favor rather than to be brought up by either of these silly, self-centered people.

    This is the kind of case relished by men because it conforms to a favorite form of contextless MRA logic: “She wants equality when it pays off for her, but not when it pays off for him.”

  56. Laughingrat

    TwissB, you seem to be very conveniently and smugly forgetting that Patriarchy screws women up in the head as well as legally, medically, and financially (to name but a few). It’s nice that you have the good fortune to think highly enough of yourself to leave a chump or avoid one in the first place–as well as the financial ability to make relationship decisions freely. Many women are in neither enviable position, and that is not because they’re dumb, lazy, and self-centered, but because Patriarchy is an engine of social control designed to destroy women from the inside out. Or did I maybe just miss the memo saying that victim-blaming is only anti-feminist if the violence in question is physical, not psychological?

  57. janna

    Why isn’t public school child care? While it generally isn’t enough child care for working parents, professionals are being paid to care for other peoples’ children. Any elementary school teacher who thinks part of their job isn’t babysitting is delusional.

  58. TwissB

    Maybe it’s time for a gentle reminder that none of us knows unless specifically told just how any of us is situated.

  59. Denise

    Despite the woman’s decision to bear a pregnancy to term, two people were responsible for the conception of the fetus, which has turned into a full blown helpless human being that can do nothing for itself and is therefore wholly dependent on the care of adults. It will need food, clothing, shelter, babysitting, toys, so on and so forth, and all of those things cost money.

    Child support money is not a payment to the woman in order to congratulate her for having a baby. Child support is not to punish the man for not keeping it in his pants or getting snipped. The point of child support is to help the hapless child have the best start in life. Men complain, Oh it’s not fair that I have to pay for a child I didn’t want, when she could have had an abortion at any time! Well, that may or may not be true. But you know what absolutely wouldn’t be fair? If the child has to live in poverty because its father got to opt out of responsibility by telling a judge that he woulda paid for an abortion, honest, it’s just that that scheming bitch wanted to trap me! That doesn’t seem very fair to the kid who didn’t do anything at all but be born.

    Whether the woman made a good choice in continuing the pregnancy is really irrelevant in this situation. And yes, what Laughingrat said.

  60. virago

    “At a certain point during arousal, we don’t have complete control over our ability to stop.:

    Wow! How do those guys in porn manage to stop when the director yells, “Cut!”. Maybe it’s the word, “Cut”. Maybe every woman should yell, “Cut!” in the middle of sex to give him Lorena Bobbit flashbacks. OTOH, if Greg Bruell didn’t want anymore kids, he should’ve went, “Snip” and had a vasectomy, or at the very least, wear a fucking condom. The excuses these guys come up with.

  61. tinfoil hattie

    I am sorry I should have said when women choose to have abortions. You are right, tinfoil hattie.

    Phew! I wondered if ol’ Greg himself had come in here and posted as nails!

  62. tinfoil hattie

    TwissB, maybe she changed her mind.

    As is her right.

  63. Saphire

    #Only women have the extraordinary freedom to enjoy sexual intimacy free from the fear of forced parenthood.’

    Men talking about their oppression is recipe for belly laughs. Then you consider how women are globally severely oppressed and the ‘woe is me’ of men makes you feel ill.

    Don’t know whether it’s just me but are they half joking? Or are they just typically using whatever tactics come immediately to mind to keep us eternally oppressed.

    I can’t believe the ‘we can’t wear woman’s clothes waaa’ line. That’s because YOU create norms for men to be all big and nasty to oppress inferiors – and *then* moan that you can’t dance around in a skirt?

    Mel Feit makes me wanna vom.

  64. speedbudget

    janna, many people treat school like child care because there is dearth of good, affordable child care in this country. That still doesn’t make school a child care. The purpose of a child is to supervise children and generally keep them occupied to avoid the inevitable fights and problems associated with bored children.

    The purpose of school is to impart information to children and to teach them not only information but how to comport oneself in a public space and manners and various other things. But its main purpose is to impart information because you want an educated public (but certainly not too educated. No thinking for yourself, cubicle-dwelller!) in a democracy.

    I think the way people treat the schools just shows up how important it is for our country to quit wasting money overseas and spend that money here on programs like day care and health care and a living wage.

  65. Princess Rot

    “When a man and woman have discussed what they want and have an agreement, I do not think she has a right to impose her change of mind.”

    Ah-hahaha. Men have been “imposing” their “change of mind” on women for fucking centuries, verbal, financial, religious or legal agreements notwithstanding. As Jill succinctly puts it, men have always had the most options if THEY don’t feel like parenting. Or being decent human beings, even. This knob Bruell had all the options from the damn beginning, he just couldn’t be fucking mithered to get his ass in gear, so when it all went belly-up he thinks he has divine right to assert control over another.

    I don’t know the woman in question, but a dude who
    requires someone to have an abortion (or depending on the flavour of patriarchy, give birth) when there are far easier and less invasive ways of getting the same result, just with a little actual effort from said dudebro, like wearing a fucking condom, is a massive red flag. This song is as old as the world. A privileged class exteriorizing responsibility for their behavior onto an oppressed class, while simultaenously revoking the oppressed classes autonomy and ability to deal with said exteriorizing.

    I mean, why?** Why put your gf through outpatient surgery, with all the likelyhood that she would have to run a gauntlet of slut-shaming anti-choicers on the way in, and have everybody and their dog tsk-tsking about how abortion is bad, don’tcha know? All that, just to save some dudebro’s perception of his fucking manhood because he couldn’t be bothered to wrap it up? He could have gotten a vas, which is significantly easier to access (and far less invasive, AND cheaper because it does not require full anaesthesia) for men than for women, simply because men do not have the “but you might want a/more children one day!!11eleventy!” faux concern bullshit. But no, everything’s about the dude and his wad. No concern for anyone else but him.

    **This is a rhetorical question. IBTP.

    As the Discworld golems put it: I Laugh With Scorn.

  66. TwissB

    Tinfoil Hattie’s response prompts me to clarify without further amplification that my remarks were directed solely at a child support lawsuit that would lock the woman into what seems like a hopeless (toxic?) relationship. As the saying goes, I’ll hang up now and listen.

  67. Princess Rot

    In other news, I like Hector B’s idea of insuring dongs like we insure cars. ROFLMAO, mate.

  68. Jezebella

    TwissB, you may wish to follow your own advice, to wit:

    “Maybe it’s time for a gentle reminder that none of us knows unless specifically told just how any of us is situated.”

    Didn’t you just blame the woman who made the unfortunate mistake of getting involved with an MRA, and then pronounce that she “unaccountably” chose not to have an abortion, and also question her motives for acquiring financial support from said MRA for the kid? Maybe it’s time for a gentle reminder that sometimes women make the mistake of believing a guy is not a total douchebag, and then finding out later that he is. Is this her fault? Not so much. He’s the asshole in this scenario. She’s the one who was duped, which makes her the *victim* of the asshole, dig?

    And, apropos of the notion that it’s easy peasy to just go and get an abortion, ba-da-boom, even once you manage to find a provider, come up with the cash, take a day or three off work, and run the gauntlet of anti-choicers and slut-shamers, the fact is, pregnancy is tough on a body, and an abortion is outpatient surgery, and is also tough on a body. It’s not like having a mole removed. Pregnancy changes a woman’s body, and then abruptly terminating that process throws your whole system out of whack for a while.

  69. yttik

    Well, as long as we’re already arguing, this woman’s intuition,(which is actually a stubborn persistent voice of reason,) is probably screaming at her in five different languages that this guy is an asshole. It is her belief in the superiority of MRA’s, Elle mag, and patriarchal definitions of rationality, that are leading her down the aisle.

    No doubt she has spent a lifetime being told not to trust her instincts, that she is being unfair, irrational, and has flawed ways of perceiving reality. After all, women’s intuition is such a flaky pursuit and obviously a sign of willful ignorance.

  70. TwissB

    For those who think that I need a Feminism 101 tutorial, kindly see my website, especially #622-”Stop Abortion? Fix Men!” and #417″Abortion Law: ‘Unique Problem for Women’ or Sex Discrimination?” -Yale J. of Law and Feminism reprint, 15 pages.

  71. nails

    Strawmen on parade!!

  72. veganrampage

    You nailed it with the desire to cross dress and the anger. Do it and shut the fuck up Mel. Jesus, if that’s all he really wants let him have for crying the fuck out loud.

    About ’round over a decade now, my last “boyfriend” had a confession to make to me. He sorta built up to it. It was beginning to scare me. What could it be? Murderer? Rapist? Child molester?

    It turned out he liked to dress up in dresses.

    “Well it’s just clothes I thought to myself, no big deal.”

    What he should have confessed was that deep down he was a cruel and cold person who had been abused at an early age by a parent and so had never gained any empathy. He was a true sadist as well as a masochist. And worse, much worse, as an adult, a grown up adult, out of all the religions in the world he had chosen to convert to Catholicism.

    So Mel baby, it is not women’s fault that you hate this world and yourself, put on those dresses and wear some lipstick and smile! You will look so much prettier if you smile, Mel.

  73. Amananta

    While condoms have a failure rate, they do work a fair amount of the time, if used properly, or used at all. But notice how often in these “debates” that if you posit to a man that he could have prevented the theft of his precious sperm to make a baby against his will by use of a condom, he will react with the same amount of fury as if you had suggested flat out castration. Castration, vasectomy, and condom usage are all met with similar levels of shock, disdain, and hatred by men who do not wish to pay child support but still wish to continue pronging fertile women. Preventing pregnancy is women’s work, and women’s work is universally considered demeaning, humiliating, and beneath the dignity of real human (man) to perform.

  74. slythwolf

    Did this knob get a vasectomy? I ask only because I refuse to believe any man who has not had a vasectomy has actually made a decision not to father any more children.

    you can’t say dick about what happens to it.

    Beautiful.

  75. Alexa

    “Sometimes the woman doesn’t want him around anymore, so he stalks her. Sometimes she makes him hate her so much that he emails naked pictures of her to the whole school. Sometimes she gets old or fat so he keeps her around to do his laundry but starts pronging a younger woman on the DL. Sometimes she stops putting out so he fires her from her job. Sometimes the woman interprets the pronging as rape, so he calls her a liar and tortures her with mental cruelty and courtroom drama and ends up doing no jail time.”

    This makes me hate men, because it’s true. Men hate women, they fucking hate us.

  76. speedbudget

    Maybe she kept hearing that siren song from the distant shores. “Settle! You’ll be happier in the long run!”

    Then her lobes kicked into gear and made her realize that actually settling doesn’t work well for anyone except the settlee.

  77. Boad

    I first heard about this story while watching the View (yes I must be a masochist) and had to change the channel when Whoopie “it wasn’t rape-rape” Goldberg defended the guy. I’m all for good communication in a relationship and it’s really nice these people had a plan (no kids), but unless you do something permanent to keep that plan going (vasectomy since he’s the one so opposed to offspring), then suck it up when things turn out differently.

    I’m sure many women who were knocked up and forced in one of many ways to carry a pregnancy to term would have liked the option to go “Oh no I didn’t actually want it, the patriarchy trapped me!” but unfortunately that always falls on deaf ears doesn’t it? Who wants to listen to a woman bitch about icky womens troubles. This story just pisses me off so much because it really shows there is no winning. “Don’t have abortions, they’re for sluts! …No wait, have an abortion because it’s now convenient for me!” Only men can change their minds apparently. Sigh.

  78. Jane Q Public

    To Greg Bruell: Don’t want no kids? Close your legs, you little slut.

    A myriad of similar phases applied to women who find themselves in the unfortunate predicament of unplanned parenthood comes to mind here. Because, shit, everybody knows if you play, you pay. Right?

  79. rowmyboat

    You know, I like men in skirts. That doesn’t mean I have any intention of having a roll in the hay with this Mel Feit guy. Because, skirt or no, he’d still be a complete misogo-toolbox. Like, there’s a Venn diagram, one circle of men in skirts and another of misogo-toolboxes/men I won’t get it on with, and he’s the little oval in the middle where they overlap.

  80. Orange

    This is, sadly, not on topic. But I laugh every time I see the last name of that hockey player for the Chicago Blackhawks: Pronger!

    This link, however, is on topic: http://www.thenation.com/article/when-teen-pregnancy-no-accident . The article attests that many of the women who seem to have “pregnancy ambivalence”–they say they don’t want to be pregnant and yet they get pregnant–may be getting sabotaged by abusive men who hide their BC bills, poke holes in condoms, refuse to use condoms, don’t pull out when then say they will, or yoink off her contraceptive patch or ring. The men seem divided between those who want to impregnate a woman and make her have a baby and those who want to impregnate a woman and then make her have an abortion.

  81. nails

    Orange- my high school had a teen pregnancy program. I recall a conversation where no less than 5 teenage girls all recalled their boyfriends removing condoms midway through intercourse in order to ejaculate in them. They all expressed this as a mild annoyance… I remember hearing this and thinking “what the FUCK??? why would men do that?!?!?” as I listened. Years later I read a report of teen dating violence that discussed intentional pregnifying on the part of dudes, in order to make a life long bond with the object of their abuse. It isn’t uncommon, and the girls I knew at that high school were seriously at risk for that sort of abuse.

    I heard a lot of pro-life rhetoric from drug addicted or neglectful teen moms too. The social pressure that forced them into raising kids they didn’t want or care for was equally bad, imo.

  82. polly

    He says she deceived him. Well she might indeed have done so, but she could have just changed her mind. But even if she did, if he had lied to her and said he had had a vasectomy, could she then demand he actually went and had one?

  83. Monado

    That patriarchal attitude is so last century! So… 1989:

    Tremblay v. Daigle (1989) 2 S.C.R. 530, was a decision of the Supreme Court of Canada in which it was found that a fetus has no legal status in Canada as a person, either in Canadian common law or in Quebec civil law. This, in turn, meant that men, while claiming to be protecting fetal rights, cannot acquire injunctions to stop their partners from obtaining abortions in Canada.

  84. Monado

    The converse is true, also, and is in fact a matter of law. A man cannot opt out of paying child support on the grounds that he told the woman that any offspring would be her problem or on some mythical account of his version of a discussion.

    My previous citation, which is about male ownership of uteri but on the other side of the aborting/supporting scale, was hasty but the opening was just my reaction to your opening paragraphs. Thanks for calling these knobs to account.

  85. Jill

    “You know, I like men in skirts. That doesn’t mean I have any intention of having a roll in the hay with this Mel Feit guy. Because, skirt or no, he’d still be a complete misogo-toolbox. Like, there’s a Venn diagram, one circle of men in skirts and another of misogo-toolboxes/men I won’t get it on with, and he’s the little oval in the middle where they overlap.

    This is an example what I mean when I say I don’t really want to hear about your personal heterosexiness.

  86. hatemale

    So, shall we go to his house and drop off a boatload of chick tracts and preachy pamphlet on the sanctity of life?
    Make him name it?
    Make him wait 24hours and tell his mother/teacher/father/priest/doc workers union rep?

    Could we charge him with murder and attempted murder and conspiracy to to commit?
    Does his Girl Friend get a medal for saving the life of the unborn?

    I want operation rescue in this guys grill, and i mean now!

    Yours in blame

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