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Jun 09 2010

Raw data, impartially presented

Total number of comments I Blame the Patriarchy has received since publishing my critique of Jason G Goldman’s article: 174

Number of death threats I’ve received in same interim: 3

Number of comments in same interim containing nothing but profanity: 17

Number of comments in same interim containing vaguely pro-dudebro garbled gibberish: 2

Number of comments expressing in standard English overtly misogynist or antifeminist sentiments: 11

Number of external blog posts linking to my critique that characterize my views as “anti-science”: 3*

Number of comments alluding to the autoharp: 2

Total percentage of comments expressing hostility toward anti-porn views on this here radical feminist blog: 20%
____________________
* According to Technorati

81 comments

1 ping

  1. TiG

    Death threats over porn? dudebros be buggin’.

  2. Notorious Ph.D.

    “A through analysis of these data conclusively proves that the blogger known variously as Jill or Twisty Faster:

    a) hates all men irrationally;

    b) is the enemy of sex and all things fun in life; and

    c) will probably never catch a husband, with that attitude.”

  3. Pinko Punko

    If you can’t handle internet Blame™, get your ass off the same.

  4. chris

    “pro-dudebro garbled gibberish”

    Is there any other kind?

  5. Jodie

    Death threats? What kind of idiot is so porn-addled that a death threat is deemed an appropriate response to a critique of a pro-porn article?

  6. The Nerd

    Jodie – What were you expecting, sound logic?

    “We’re not oppressing women, and if you don’t stop blaming the patriarchy, we’ll kill you!”

  7. Kynthos

    Amazing…at least two of those links are actually in reference to ONE COMMENT made on that post, much more so than your actual post. How scientific and observational of them. But, as they point out, you automatically agree 20000% with any comment posted since you’re a feminazi-comment-filtering-bot.

  8. RKMK

    What kind of idiot is so porn-addled that a death threat is deemed an appropriate response to a critique of a pro-porn article?

    The kind that is TOTALLY rational, unbiased, unemotional and balanced in his pro-porn stance – as all dudebros are, naturally.

  9. hero

    No other issue raises the hackles of the P more than the threat to their porn privileges. Seriously. Threaten to kill their dog, take away their guns, make apple pie illegal, they’re all “meh.” But suggest that porn is not the best, safest, loveliest invention of dudemanity, or suggest that it indeed involves victimizing humans, and they will try to kill you, with four-part harmony and deep sincerity.

  10. Comrade Svilova

    Isn’t it pro-science to point out that a hastily dashed-off blog post that only referenced a couple of cherry-picked articles doesn’t a peer-reviewed study make?

    Because that’s what I thought Zuska and Jill did. But ah, it’s only dudes who get to determine what is and is not science? How dare a woman dream that she can safely criticize lazy science done by men! If it’s done by men, it is science. Even if the methodology seems doubtful.

  11. Cortney

    Though I should not have been surprised, I had a similar influx of comments after I posted about Grand Theft Auto. For some reason that post, more than any other post I have written since, garnered a nauseating wave of vitriol. I admit, it got me down for awhile.

    The death threats are the worst. Well, no, the rape threats are the worst.

  12. Comrade PhysioProf

    MOAR AUTOHARP!!!111!!111!!!ELEBNETYQ!11111!!

  13. Triste

    Death threats? Man, what are they, on the rag? Who the fuck gets so emotional over porn?

    … Oh, dudes do?

    Oh.

  14. jaded

    Huh. I’d have thought there would be more clusterfucketty assholes who have nothing better but infest other people’s spaces with their nincompoopish bullshit.

    Or maybe I got the math wrong. My LadyBrain does that sometimes.

  15. Pansuit Sally

    To take a page from the Dudebro Handbook:

    Porn lovers, if you don’t like what you read on this blog, DON’T READ IT! No one is forcing you to be here.

  16. Eronarn

    This post is clear proof of your anti-science leanings. You haven’t explained which methodology you used for coding these responses – it doesn’t even sound like you had peer coders at all! For shame!

    Okay, silliness aside:

    I read feminism blogs and I read science blogs. Based on my exposure to those very different cultures, it is my belief that the “anti-science” criticisms resulting from this incident are primarily (not exclusively, of course!) the result of the hyperactive instinct to defend science that pervades the (often interrelated and/or incestuous) pro-science, skepticism, and atheism blog communities. They love them some science, but they’re very bad at recognizing when outsiders (both in the sense of non-scientists and non-science-bloggers) are doing it because for all their thought on the topic they’re still more often than not reliant on cultural cues to tell them what is scientific and what is not.

    This is compounded by their failure to consistently apply the distinction between the (pure, theoretical) process of science, the (more often than not flawed, actual) practice of science, and the (often oppressive) institution of science. One form of defense of science is to pick away at general attacks on “science” by explaining why they should actually be stated as criticisms of one or both of the latter categories. When a non-scientist actually does go and make a specific criticism of the latter two, though, they’ll go and do the inverse by misconstruing that attack on the specific as an attack on the general.

    I think a cultural explanation really works well to explain that defensiveness: the specific criticisms made by non-scientists that get blog time in the aforementioned communities are almost invariably specific criticisms made by people who actually are anti-”science”-as-a-general-concept (see: global warming, Young Earth Creationism). Under those conditions, “not a scientist” plus “criticizing science” equals activation of the “aaaaaaaa bad anti-science progress-killer make defensive blog post aaaaaaaa” schema.

    Again, the above is just my (worthless!) opinion. But based on it, I’ll make this prediction: people who call “anti-science!” on criticisms of the original article are relying on cultural cues and stereotypes rather than taking the time to investigate whether those doing the criticizing are actually anti-science. Exposure to posts like the ones about science from last (week?) might get them to stop responding reflexively and start using their lobes about the issue.

    Not that explaining yourself to other groups is, like, a responsibility – or even necessarily a desirable goal. But I do know that A) it would make me a lot happier if the Science Is Awesome crowd had more perspective B) they’re unlikely to stumble upon any themselves.

  17. nails

    Wow, no death threats in my neck of the woods. All I got for posting about porn was an interview request for some podcast.

  18. buttercup

    Wow, I thought the death threats were bad, but autoharp? Really? Who would wish autoharp on anyone? Although my mom probably still has a set of fingerpicks around if you want me to check.

  19. wiggles

    @Pantsuit Sally – These dudes want to ban all feminist critique, but there’s this little thing called the First Amendment.

  20. Saphire

    Report their IP addresses.

    People think I’m mad for thinking men are fucked up! I can see why you got all that: threatened privilege. They’re also not able to scare us into silence, as is the usual course of action.

    Must hurt, like it would hurt any oppressors if someone said their oppressing was a bad idea. That’s how serious porn and men are getting. To state the obvious about porn is becoming more and more of a dangerous threat to the system. Can it hold?

    If I was doing a radfem conference, I wouldn’t invite Fathers4Justice and PornClub. An internet radfem space is the same, some things are just private, e.g for those who can string a sentence together.

    This space is so important. My heart goes out to Jill for having to suffer so we don’t get to see the depressing crap. This blog to me is a refuge from the hatred almost everywhere else, but Jill still has to shift through it.

  21. Sylvie

    Time for a course in the philosophy of science for anyone who uses the phrase “building blocks of cognition”.

  22. yttik

    I’m impressed, Twisty’s got some diversity in her fan mail. I just get copies of the standard one printed on page 23 of The Idiots Guide to Being a Misogynist.

  23. Steph

    I firmly hope that your critique also caused some dudes to stop and think. Given the “update” he wrote I suspect that occurred, at least to some extent. Re-posting a rewrite is poor internet form, but something penetrated the fog of his brain, somehow.

  24. norbizness

    Well of course, everything looks bad if you remember it.

  25. Cara

    What kind of idiot is so porn-addled that a death threat is deemed an appropriate response to a critique of a pro-porn article?

    Jodie, I dearly love questions that contain their own answer. ;) So, thank you.

  26. beth

    OT, but couldn’t think of where else to put it, and thought of this blog immediately when I saw this article.

    http://www.beliefnet.com/Love-Family/Relationships/2006/07/Moms-Dont-Forget-To-Feed-Your-Marriages.aspx?p=2

    Normally you have to be paying attention to catch the male-supremacy message in cultural commentary. This is one of the rare instances in which a dude is actually coming right out and saying, “the pleasure of men in your life should take precedence over other priorities, up to and including the choice of how best to nourish your child.”

    Remember, ladies, not to abandon your responsibility for your male partner’s sexual desires and expression, even if you have a new baby demanding your attention every second.

    And DEFINITELY maintain the presence of mind to cover your baby in a hot, suffocating blanket when he’s nursing, even at home, and be sure never to make that eye contact and use that time for bonding with your child if your husband happens to be present, because after all, he and his sexual desires should be the top priority in your household, regardless of the needs of others in the family.

    Guess who I blame.

  27. Jack

    In response to hero–I think there might be a few reasons, apart from liking porn, why guys (including me) get upset when they hear certain anti-porn arguments. One is the implication that male heterosexuality is shameful, which might cause a male heterosexual who has issues about sex to freak out. Another is the perception that people who want to ban porn are trying to put themselves on the winning side of a hypocritical rule. I mean, I find it really annoying that Elie Weisel (sp?) wants Holocaust denial to be illegal but has spent decades denying that Israel has ever done anything wrong; sure, Holocaust denial is bad, but Weisel’s assumption that his own political views are swell is pretty grating. If you think that some of what radical feminists or family-values types say is harmful, then their calls to ban porn on the grounds that it’s harmful might seem extremely annoying too. Not that any of this would explain making death threats, of course.

    Speaking of abusive messages–I posted an insulting comment here before and I apologize for that. Politics aside, it’s pretty low to go on someone’s blog and call them an idiot anonymously. I’ll take some of the posters’ advice and stay away from now on.

  28. Bushfire

    How do these stats compare to other blog posts? Are there normally fewer hostile gibberish comments? How much does the percentage increase when the blog post contains the world “porn”?

    Now we’re getting science-y!

  29. Cycles

    “Number of comments in same interim containing nothing but profanity: 17″

    Well, this bitchy asshole right here loves every goddamn post at Twisty’s fucking blog. They make me piss with cunty glee, although my motherfucking obstreporal lobe sometimes gets all bollocksed-up and shit.

  30. RKMK

    Jack, congratulations, you’ve Godwinned the topic.

    One is the implication that male heterosexuality is shameful, which might cause a male heterosexual who has issues about sex to freak out. Another is the perception that people who want to ban porn are trying to put themselves on the winning side of a hypocritical rule.

    OR, man are oversized toddlers whining about their toys being taken away, and/or resent people calling attention to the horrible, ugly underbelly of their most joyous pastime. I know it’s hard. It’s like learning Disney produces it’s goods at exploitative third-world sweatshops. But you have to grow the fuck up at some point and accept that your recreational/sexual proclivities have harmful, rippling consequences to actual real world people.

  31. ew_nc

    “One is the implication that male heterosexuality is shameful”

    I have never once in my life heard anyone imply that male heterosexuality is shameful. Nay, it’s the most widely celebrated thing there is!

    So Jack, it was ok for you to post an insulting comment here, but it’s not ok for someone to go on your blog and call you on it? Oh wait, you apologized, so all must be forgiven. I forgot that the male after-the-fact apology makes it all better. Just ask Tiger Woods.

    You’re a complete tool. Ooops, that was low. I apologize. /snark

  32. AlienNumber

    Did Jackass just bring up Elie Wiesel and the Holocaust and Israel (and the Holocaust) in an otherwise incoherent post? I don’t know why I find that really funny.

    Hey, Jack- your sexuality is shameful, douchebag: you jerk off to movies of women being raped.

  33. wiggles

    “One is the implication that male heterosexuality is shameful”

    Only the socially conditioned rapey part of male heterosexuality that’s so often featured and appealed to in porn. That’s the problem. Stop viewing sex as conquest and see what happens.

  34. Bushfire

    One is the implication that male heterosexuality is shameful. . .

    In what universe did you find that opinion? Strawland?

    which might cause a male heterosexual who has issues about sex to freak out.

    OMG WE SHOULD NEVER EVER DO SOMETHING TO CAUSE HARM TO A MAN’S SEXUALITY. There are not enough swear words in the world to express my opinion on that garbage.

    Jack, if you had any knowlege of how damaging our society is toward women’s sexuality you would be embarassed to say anything like this.

  35. Jack

    “So Jack, it was ok for you to post an insulting comment here, but it’s not ok for someone to go on your blog and call you on it? Oh wait, you apologized, so all must be forgiven. I forgot that the male after-the-fact apology makes it all better. Just ask Tiger Woods.”

    I don’t know what that means. I don’t have a blog, but if I just apologized for something, I obviously think I was wrong and deserve to be called on it. I didn’t say that I deserve to be forgiven; all I did was apologize. I’m starting way too many sentences with the word “I,” so I better go now.

  36. Mayday

    “Porn doesn’t lovingly nurture my ultraviolent misogyny, and I’ll kill any bitch who says otherwise!” – Most convincing dudebros ever

  37. otoc

    Douchebags who get off on dehumanizing, degrading, hurting, demeaning, and dominating women SHOULD freak out about their masturbatory preferences when it’s pointed out how harmful the product they consume is. And then they should CHANGE what they are doing. But they choose instead to shut down those pointing this out and continue justifying themselves and each other, because (all together now) MEN. HATE. WOMEN.

  38. Alexa

    ‘Waaaaaa! Ay noh awowed to be hetewo sexuawl. Duh porn ish so goood! Bay!’

    Bye Jack you big sweaty, simple douche. Do us a favour and don’t maturbate into a sweaty frenzy over the next rape.

  39. Alexa

    I second otoc, it’s not sex that’s being defended here, it’s not even sex as wank fodder. It’s the ‘making human’ of women they’re crying about.

  40. Jack

    Male name! Vaguely anti-radical-feminist comment! All systems go! Holocaust mentioned—can we please get a Godwin reference here?! Thank you! Snarky expression of amusement at incoherence, “douchebag,” “Jackass,” fine, fine, but where the FUCK is the word “mansplaining”?! Get me five paragraphs about male privilege STAT, and if it doesn’t contain “Jesus on a jetpack” and “godbag” it’ll be your fucking ass!
    And for the love of God, can we please get a few more retarded assumptions about his sexual proclivities? One line about jerking off to rape movies isn’t going to do it, people!

    Kidding, kidding. Seriously, I might not always agree with you, but I think most of you are smart people. And I actually do think that porn can be harmful for the people in it. I just read an anti-porn chapter in Chris Hedges’s new book that turned my stomach. And now I really will go.

  41. Cycles

    “One is the implication that male heterosexuality is shameful, which might cause a male heterosexual who has issues about sex to freak out.”

    This is a fabulous example of “Patriarchy Hurts Men Too,” and a jolly good reason to consider aligning oneself with feminist thought.

    In patriarchy, successful maleness is defined in large part by the enjoyment of porn. When confronted with the rapey facet of this form of enjoyment, the natural reaction is to bristle and deny. We all like to think of ourselves as nice folks who are generally anti-rape. So one goes about one’s porn-enjoyment under the illusion that it’s benign until some annoying internet feminist brings it up.

    Feminism’s job is to point out that this narrow definition of maleness, and its required proclivities, isn’t such a swell paradigm for women OR men. Feeling ashamed that you like to watch the graphic depiction of rape? Feminism can help you point your blame-rays at the correct target: patriarchy.

  42. RKMK

    Porn mentioned in negative manner! Men’s entitlement to rape depiction threatened! Heads explode! Rush to offending blog post – run down patriarchal checklist: women LIKE porn! AND participating in it! coercion is feminist fantasy! you’re all right-wing anti-sex prudes who condone CENSORSHIP and hate FREEDOM like NAZIS! Imply uglyness of disagreeing posters as if lack of physical beauty a) invalidates points made and b) is any kind of real insult. Mention: needing a man/deep dicking or needing to die/get raped, offer availability to commit murder/rape, exeunt stage left.

  43. otoc

    Jack, you and everyone like you are the reason I’m scared to go outside my home alone at night, but I’m SO glad to hear you think some of us are smart, even though we’re totally nuts and annoying! Thanks, buddy!

  44. Mortisha

    Pornsick dudebros are just as resistant to logic and empathy as godbothering creationists.

  45. Andrea

    It’s gonna be a good conference. There will probably be gyrating, partially-dressed women waving witty signs about how much they enjoy their current status as the sex class so I hope FOX shows up, at least.

    What was that Schlafly org? STOP, Stop Taking Our Privileges? Crappiest recursive acronym ever.

    Seriously, though. Thank you, Twisty, for writing about it and for enduring the shit storm. It’s taken some sweat off my back. And thank you to the Blamers commenting on this: the wind under my wings right now.

    Okay, to be fair, I also have some wine under my wings right now.

  46. Jill

    I also have some wine under my wings right now.

    As is the rule on Savage Death Island, if it’s after 5.

  47. Rachel

    Andie, there are only two known pro-porn assholes registered, so it’s going to be 98 to 2. And there’s always the possibility that they’ll decide to attend the trainwreck that is Pride instead, which is scheduled at the same time.

    Why didn’t anyone take my Super Soakers filled with urine idea seriously?

  48. Shell Goddamnit

    Men: OMG you keep saying the same things over & over! Groupthink!!

    Women: Because OMG the same thing keeps happening again & again, duh! Damn you, patriarchy, for your repetitive nature, you are boring the poor dudes!

  49. Rice

    Jack, and other males loitering with his opinions: this is a radfem blog. Yes, comments that are – what you apparently in your dudely wisdom get to define as – “slightly” anti-feminist will be met with derision. No one is here to coddle you, hold your hand and lead you through steps to understand your douchebagginess. It will only be laughed at. This is not a difficult concept to understand, and honestly just disrupts my enjoyment of one of the only douchebag-free environments available.

    And while I’m here, Twisty you make me laugh so!

    Now, back to lurking.

  50. TwissB

    As if the First Amendment (which women don’t have, by the way) made any difference when established power wants something shut up. Under those circumstances, banning is by gentlemen’s agreement. Apologies if I have use the following example before, but it’s the shortest one I can think of. Reviewing Catharine MacKinnon’s book about the First Amendment “Only Words,” Washington Post cultural columnist Jonathan Yardley huffed that the Harvard University Press should simply have refused to publish it! And when MacKinnon spoke at the National Press Club, reporters who had savagely criticized and freely misrepresented MacKinnon’s ideas stayed away in droves, in contrast to attending en masse an appearance by Christie Hefner. It’s easy to ban speech critical of pornography if you’ve got the power (and venerate the First Amendment as the journalism trade’s trade’s cherished liability shield that protects pornography all the way to the bank.

  51. Shelby

    Fuck up and die Jack. I got your back Twisty.

  52. TwissB

    corrections: used; delete 2nd trades; bank). A pox on typos.

  53. Pantsuit Sally

    Jack thinks some of us are smart? *swoons*

    By the way, as Twisty pointed out in one of these posts over the last few days, no one here is trying to ban porn. It certainly wouldn’t bother me at all if it were banned, but not only would it be ineffective (as evidenced by all the men who place their right to jerk off above women’s right to basic human dignity at the mere suggestion that they examine what they find sexually arousing and why), it would be treating a symptom rather than the root cause of female oppression. But thanks for the nice strawfeminist.

    Re: the article beth linked to: Furthermore, I said, her obsession had turned one of her most attractive body parts into a feeding station, an attractive cafeteria rather than a scintillating piece of flesh.

    Seriously, what in the everloving fuck?

  54. Valerie

    Jill, I am really sorry you are receiving death threats. You must have struck a deep nerve because that might get them 10 to 15 years. I can’t believe someone would risk going to prison because you and others have spoken up against this. It isn’t like it’s the first time it’s happened and porn is still running wild.
    I guess that’s the end of the science experiment, porn does make you violent- violently addicted to it.

  55. Bushfire

    Wow, Valerie, you think that a dude could get 10-15 years for sending a radfem a death threat over the internet? I’d like to live in your world.

  56. hero

    Well, DOG KNOWS we don’t want any heterosexual dudes with issues to freak out.
    !
    !!!
    !!!!!!!!! Can you IMAGINE how the world would wobble on its tiny axis if THAT were EVER EVER to happen?

    And–tsk, tut, hemhemhemHEM, could there be anything more outrageously unthinkable than a male het thinking of his sexuality as *shameful*? Shaming people just doesn’t happen. Sorry. Not one person of the human being type has ever been shamed for incorporating any sexuality whatso-whatso, so just get that silly thought out of your handsome little head. To THINK, girls, that a boy like Jack would even consider that someone of a gender other than his own might have disdain for his gender and its tendencies! Shaming sexuality! What will those cute boys think of next!

  57. yttik

    “One is the implication that male heterosexuality is shameful..”

    Isn’t “male heterosexuality” a strange kind of oxymoron? Is this something you get together with the guys and do? Something you do alone? Half the equation is missing here.

  58. nails

    It is the irony of masculinity, isn’t it? The tiniest bit of critique makes macho dudes practically cry when someone doesn’t like their style. It is hilarious.

  59. Valerie

    Hey Bushfire- One can only hope that they would get jail time. Death threats are nothing to sneeze at, but you’re right, of course, just wishful thinking on my part.

  60. allhellsloose

    ‘Which might cause a male heterosexual who has issues about sex to freak out.’ Freak out and do what? So in other words, to maintain the status quo (and the perceived delicate, brittle nature of male heterosexuality) the answer is: no changes, no criticism, know thine place woman (under my hetmale foot).

    Men are not from Mars and women are not from Venus. I suggest, Jack, that you divest yourself of this silly notion.

  61. Katherine

    Holy carp, that beliefnet article is among the most disturbing things I have ever read, and I read that article about the 13 year old girl in Pennsylvania yesterday.

    I blame, blame, blame. And a little vomit.

    How dare I “de-EROTICIZE” my body doing silly little unimportant things like birthing and feeding my offspring. Ugh.

  62. Comrade Svilova

    Isn’t “male heterosexuality” a strange kind of oxymoron? Is this something you get together with the guys and do? Something you do alone? Half the equation is missing here.

    Exactly. Thanks yttik for putting it so well.

    What’s interesting to me is how many women have noted here and elsewhere that they used to enjoy porn until they learned more about how it is made. We are not slaves of our biology; we can act in opposition to our instincts and desires if there’s a compelling reason to do so. (Sorry, EvoPsychos, but it’s true.)

    (Please note, I would never lend any support to ex-gay movements’ assertion that we can retrain our desires. This is only meant to argue that if there is a compelling humanitarian reason to abstain from consuming a product, we can choose to deny ourselves the consumption experience, no matter how pleasurable it might have otherwise been. Actually, hopefully we are empathetic enough individuals that the consumption experience would no longer even be compelling or pleasurable once we knew about the enormous human cost of said experience.)

  63. Amananta

    Well you see, they are all about the free speech. By you opening your big fat woman-mouth and criticizing their porn, you are threatening their right to free speech! Therefore they are justified in doing or saying whatever they want to you.
    Now now, don’t ask how a man’s “right” to jack off to pictures of enslaved, raped, drugged, starved, tortured, bruised underage girls is somehow a free speech issue. Try saying that and we are assured, endlessly, that porn “actresses” are all “consenting adults” who just love their jobs and are making money hand over fist and we are just jealous, ugly old hags, no matter how much evidence (you know, that science-y stuff) there is to the contrary. It’s all free speech, baby. Therefore you’re the enemy of free speech. Burn the witch!
    (Also, don’t bring up the ironic, uncomfortable fact that they are threatening to kill you for exercising your right to free speech on your own blog. That’s just different somehow – don’t make them have to mansplain it to you further!)

  64. Amananta

    Jack, I’m not going to waste much time trying to attack your many erroneous assumptions, among them the “banning porn” strawman (which Twisty stated explicitly in a former post she was not trying to do, if you would but read); however I would ask you to, as a favor to yourself, examine why, exactly, you think porn and your heterosexuality are completely inseparable, since porn has, in fact, not existed for the vast majority of the existence of the human race.

  65. Comrade Svilova

    But but but that other precious jewel invented porn on his own at 11! And there were those Venus figures some 30,000 years ago that were probably masturbation aids. Porn is inseparable from male sexuality. Because evolutionarily, men developed to be more visual. Haha.

    (I love that line about men being visual creatures. Guess My Nigel isn’t a man, then, since he’s the one who always wants to have the lights out and he combines a principled dislike of porn with a general disinterest in it. We should probably have his testosterone checked or something. Because being so non-manly is probably dangerous!)

  66. Jodie

    If we use our free speech to talk about how porn is damaging, somehow we are denying their free speech by making their wank material less appealing. Gah.

  67. Helen Huntingdon

    Heh, Jack thinks that he’s a superior specimen (whose opinion on anyone’s intelligence remotely matters) because he sounds like a 13-year-old hiding in his mommy’s basement, rather than like a toddler shrieking at the top of his lungs — the default male response to anything other than porn-worship.

    Sad.

    yttik’s point is dead on. There’s nothing shameful about male heterosexuality, if such a thing exists. But if it exists, I’ve never seen it. Instead there’s this bizarre homosocial acting out. If how other men react is crucial to your sexual satisfaction, what ever it is you’re doing isn’t heterosexual. Sorry to break it to you, doodz.

  68. Pansuit Sally

    Of course men are more visual! That’s why men who work in very visual fields, such as interior design, fashion, and musical theater, are considered the manliest of men and their sexual orientation is never questioned!

  69. Comrade Svilova

    It also speaks to the idea (very prevalent, unfortunately) that men and women have specific, gendered desires that are ultimately incompatible (that women want to cuddle and have romantic, vanilla sex, and men want/need sex that is rough, about domination, etc.). And that all this is “natural” and part of evolution, of course!

    “Male heterosexuality” means a specific way that some males “do” sex-with-women; thus ignoring the fact that not all straight males have the exact same desires and not all act on them in the same way — as well as proposing heterosexuality as a kind of battle for your own desire against your partner’s oppositional desires.

    Because who wants partnered sex (among people of whatever gender) to be about mutual respect, comfort, consent, and satisfaction? [Some of those*] damn sex-negative feminazis, that’s who!

    *I know that this is a gross reduction of feminist views on what sexuality “should” be, and that saying that sexuality “should” be something in particular is problematic.

  70. otoc

    I haven’t read the article about how moms should put their husband’s “needs” above those of their babies but I bet I can sum it up anyway:

    “WAH! WAH! WAH! MY BOOBIES! WAH! WAH! WAH!”

  71. nails

    Actually comrade, I think that my enjoyment of it had something to do with biology, but not in the way evo psych dudes would like. I had to suffer some really specific brain damage to get that into it.

    It is extremely common for raped women to attempt to normalize the abuse as adults. Doing things that resembled the rape, or watching porn that reproduces those elements, is a way of trying to normalize the event and make it feel less damaging in retrospect. It doesn’t really work, but a shit load of PTSD laden women do it until they realize what they are doing to themselves. Instead of the media being saturated with stories about the social crisis of rape and its effects, the media is saturated with justifications for porn. Victims have a million ready made reasons for the ‘preference’. It feeds into the guilt complex that somehow it was deserved or not so bad, when really admitting that it was absolutely terrible and coping with that is the healthy way to deal. Generally the revisionist sort of reaction causes way more problems than it solves. I guess it is one reason why some women who really do have other options choose things like prostitution and pornography. Abuse does some weird shit to the brain.

    And really, how many women get to adulthood without some kind of abuse? I told a friend about being raped and she told me that some guys held her down and made her give them oral sex once, but it wasn’t like what *I* went through or anything. She wouldn’t even call it assault. I don’t know a woman who has not been groped by strangers or stalked or threatened or had a dude expose themselves to her. Indescribable changes happen in the mind when life and safety are threatened in such a way. The popularity of porn with women my age may well hinge on how normalized abuse of women is in general.

    What bugs the living shit out of me was that I was raped when I was 13, and that is exactly when people seem to feel comfortable objectifying girls and blaming them. News stories about girls of 12 have a weirdly different reaction. Somehow 13 is when girls become responsible for being raped from what I have seen (well unless the under 13 year old girls *look* older or some other bs that the dude alleges). The assholes making these news comments do not understand the way that their comments effect victims of abuse, and how many people hear that or read them. I remember my stomach being tied in knots just hearing the word rape for a good year, I had a hard time saying it out loud. I toughened up a lot since then (its been a decade and everything), but I remember how bad this kind of thing screwed with me and I hate people who perpetuate it. People talking about Roman Polanski don’t know how many people they are really talking about either. Assholes.

  72. Cara

    One is the implication that male heterosexuality is shameful, which might cause a male heterosexual who has issues about sex to freak out.

    Question: Why does “male (hetero, if you like)sexuality” require harming women?

    Question the Second: At what age does this *need* kick in?

    Question the Third: Does this not prove female superiority in all areas, since *most* women don’t need (nor do we feel entitled to, DAMMIT) hurt someone else so we can get off?

    Question the Fourth: How, then, are men the independent, non-needy, rational gender and women the clingy, whiny, emotional one?

    Because, dude. That’s what you’re saying. You have to fap to women being hurt (or do it yourself outright) to express YOUR sexuality.

    My girly brain is soooooo confused.

  73. Comrade Svilova

    Nails, thank you for what you wrote. It’s the serious side to my perhaps flippant comments. I hope that nothing I said was upsetting or triggering, and if it was, I sincerely apologize.

  74. Jill

    nails, you are a most excellent blamer.

    That is all.

  75. thebewilderness

    I would like to ban porn.
    I would like to ban all forms of torture whether they are filmed for the gratification of wankers or not.

  76. nails

    Nope Comrade, you didn’t hurt my feelings or trigger me or anything. I got inspired and whatnot.

    Thanks for the support you guys.

  77. Andrea

    nails, I understand what you are saying. I think it is why I was in porn.

    Well, you know, and the money.

  78. JMS

    Do you want to join my Send Your Hate Mail to Clay Shirky Project? I’ve been forwarding a selection of my hate mail to Clay Shirky ever since his January blog nonsense about how women should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and put themselves out there.

    Just to remind him that, giant surprise Unca Clay, it’s not all beer and skittles when you do put yourself out there and you’re a lady.

  79. iamlegs

    @ Helen Huntingdon:

    “There’s nothing shameful about male heterosexuality, if such a thing exists. But if it exists, I’ve never seen it. Instead there’s this bizarre homosocial acting out. If how other men react is crucial to your sexual satisfaction, what ever it is you’re doing isn’t heterosexual. Sorry to break it to you, doodz.”

    Thank you for that. You totally gave me a new blade for my ibtp-army knife.

  80. Q Grrl

    “It also speaks to the idea (very prevalent, unfortunately) that men and women have specific, gendered desires that are ultimately incompatible (that women want to cuddle and have romantic, vanilla sex, and men want/need sex that is rough, about domination, etc.). And that all this is “natural” and part of evolution, of course!”

    Which makes it all the more suspicious that these guys don’t see the rape in porn, no? I mean, how else then do these guys explain women’s participation in porn other than as a direct affront to women’s nature? From my POV, you can’t hold the one belief without also understanding that you are in fact a rapist.

  81. Jill

    Which makes it all the more suspicious that these guys don’t see the rape in porn, no? I mean, how else then do these guys explain women’s participation in porn other than as a direct affront to women’s nature? From my POV, you can’t hold the one belief without also understanding that you are in fact a rapist.

    Nice blamin’.

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