Jun 27 2012

Blaming XPress: blurb + open thread

Since my blogging time will be pre-empted by a horrifying dentist appointment this morning, here’s a link to a blurb sent in by blamer Keri. Male concern-teen in some Tumblr wields an admonishing sign, “Dear Girls: Don’t be insecure. You don’t need makeup and nice clothes. You’re all fucking beautiful.” Unleashing a feminist backlash. And then a bunch of sign-wielders.

Tragically, I read this in the aforelinked post:

“Hopefully [the concern boys] won’t take these women’s hilarious responses as an excuse to devolve into nasty adult misogynists.”

No, no, no. It’s mega-irritating when women are supposed to expect rotten behavior from dudes when we don’t appease. As I have noted elsewhere about 286574 times, the wrongness of oppression isn’t contingent on the sweet demeanor of the oppressed.

Off to the torture chair. My new dentist is, I think, godly, which bodes ill. Feel free to express your views on dentists, sign-wielding, or anything else in the comments.


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  1. Ashley

    Is it terrible of me to think that, by the look of the guy in outer space, that he is in fact just a kid and is ignorant and possibly even too young to understand this issue but was just trying to make a positive statement, even though there are marks he missed?

  2. awhirlinlondon

    Good luck, Twisty.

    I adore my dentist. He calls himself the “tooth fairy” and indeed he is. Some years ago, my teeth were – dissolving, is the only word I’ve got for it – and I went to a series of dentists who looked perplexed before asking if I was bulimic. (No.) To a person, they then asked if I sucked lemons on a regular basis. (What seriously?) Got to this one, who said “get thee to a gastro person pronto” and diagnosed a serious problem that has since been stopped by medication but had led to “pre-cancerous cells” in the esophagus, that particularly form of cancer particularly deadly. He does most of his own cleanings & answers his emergency phone at home after hours and on the weekends. He is a wonderful dentist and a delightful human being. Anyone needing a superb dentist in the Pacific Northwet, specifically Seattle: His name is Mark Veigl & he’s worth a road trip.

    (Also, he said “of course you’re not bulimic or the erosion would be to the insides of the teeth.” Which, duh, come to think of it.)

  3. josquin

    One of those photo responses to outer-space-boy cracked me up. A much, much, much needed laugh on an otherwise really, really, really crappy morning.

    I hope the dentist goes as well as possible. Wishing you fortitude.

  4. tinfoil hattie

    Hopefully [the concern boys] won’t take these women’s hilarious responses as an excuse to devolve into nasty adult misogynists.”

    HA. As if they need an excuse.

    My dentist was a godbag. He was also a great dentist, and very kind, so I put up with the “Southern Living” magazines, the Early American decor (early rich, white, male American, of course), and the televisions in the reception area and EVERY EXAM ROOM that were tuned (silently, thank dog) to Fox News.

    When he retired, an awesome woman bought the practice. Her receptionist’s business cards were changed to read “Administrative Dental Goddess,” which, while still patriarchal, is at least funny.

    And now all the TVs are tuned (silently) to HGTV.

    Headphones and a book on tape/cd/ipod are helpful when succumbing to dental procedures, I’ve found.

  5. speedbudget

    I am very lucky that the worst dentistry I have had to succumb to is removal of wisdom teeth. I’ve never had braces, never had a cavity. I am still deathly terrified of going to the dentist. Part of it the sound of the scraper on my teeth makes me cringe the way most people do when they hear nails on the chalkboard.

    I found a lovely woman-owned dentist office in my town. The dentist hums while she works. She is also extremely gentle, as are all her hygienists.

  6. Owly

    I am a dentist’s dream patient as I have been known to fall asleep in the chair.

  7. Notorious Ph.D.

    I’ve got nothing against the original sign. Kid is trying, I think. The test comes when we see what he does when he sees there’s no cookie in it for him.

  8. otoc

    My comment will be depressing, so a warning to those who want to skip it.

    HBO was showing The Accused last night, the infamous Jodie Foster movie, in one of their nightly soft core pr0n slots because HBO is prohibited from showing actual rape pr0n, I presume, and because of 50 Shades of Grey, and because Feminism has decided to embrace violent “sex” as a symbol of women’s liberation, even as our reproductive rights in the US get flushed down the toilet. So I didn’t want to be the only person in the world who knew that now The Accused is considered normal, everyday teen masturbation fuel. I guess it was naive to assume it had been anything other than that before?

  9. pheeno

    “in one of their nightly soft core pr0n slots”

    That’s only on the weekends. I’ve had insomnia lately and that spot has been filled with Harry Potter more nights than not. I’ve just about gotten both Deathly Hallows memorized.

    I’ve come to look forward to Dobbys death. He creeps me out.

  10. otoc

    No, it’s not only on the weekends.

    (You have to scroll down to the listings)

    (Search HBO, 8pm+)

    Real Sex was also on at the time, along with Mulholland Dr. which is a naked movie where Naomi Watts has lesbian sex with some woman, and they’re not showing all the HBO channels here, but there was some adult movie on:


  11. yttik

    “Feel free to express your views on dentists..”

    Well okay, but it’s depressing as all hell. Where I live dentistry has become too damn expensive, so people are forced to do their own dental care. Much of my life revolves around doing triage, like taking people to the ER because they have horrendous abscesses. There is a dental school that will see people on a sliding fee, but it’s 3 hour trip each way and people literally have to camp in their cars waiting for a turn. Also it’s not free, just less expensive.

  12. Twisty

    I forgot to put in the post “By the way, don’t try defending the outer space boy. Like every other dude on the planet, he is expressing his opinion on how girls should feel and what girls should look like. The “I just care about you” tone is a manipulative ruse.”

  13. Twisty

    Also, the dentist turned out to be hilarious. They took me right to a spa room and dipped my hands in hot wax, which I initially thought was pretty weird and stupid, but after they were done with the teeth and removed the wax, I was all like “whoa, that’s pretty good.” I still don’t know what a hand treatment has to do with dentistry.

  14. Frodo

    I love my new Dentist. Benji Nemec, The Hills Dental Spa on Bee Caves at the Overlook, just west of County Line on the hill. Totally modern, painless dentistry. Give him a try and you might even run into Robert Rodriguez or one of the many stars and musicians that make up his clientelle.

  15. Saurs

    I forgot to put in the post “By the way, don’t try defending the outer space boy. Like every other dude on the planet, he is expressing his opinion on how girls should feel and what girls should look like. The “I just care about you” tone is a manipulative ruse.”

    Thank you for that. Dude uses the term “girls” to refer to grownass women, and then proceeds to address us a monolith, in the gentle and reassuring tones of a benevolent patriarch, generously bestowing his oh-so-important approval of us, makeup-less and “beautiful.” Dude likes his women infantilized, glossy magazine gorgeous without the effort (because that would probably make them vain and superficial), but unaware of how great they are in case they get full of themselves. So, basically like every other dude (occupying outerspace or no) ever. Plus, the stupid but pervasive notion that everysinglemotherfucking woman is seeking validation for her looks. “Don’t be insecure” is a subtle reminder, for the particularly thick-headed amongst us, that we should probably be acting insecure, the more ostentatious the better. That way pretty boys get an opportunity to pat us on the head and tell us how silly we’re being, oppressed by those awful beauty standards.

  16. Comradde PhysioProffe

    I still don’t know what a hand treatment has to do with dentistry.

    Obviously, you haven’t been keeping up with your bible studies.

  17. TriciaMilitia

    Hmm. Behold, terribly long link!

  18. pheeno

    “No, it’s not only on the weekends. ”

    Looks like it according to the schedule.
    Tonight I can watch- The Hangover Pt 2 (no thanks) House of The Rising Sun, True Blood on 2 channels, Monte Carlo, Don’t Tell Mom The Babysitters Dead, Sanctum (decent movie. Underwater caves are cool)Stop Or My Mom Will Shoot, The Newsroom, Water for Elephants,one old episode of Real Sex,One Nation Under Dog, Paul, The Long Riders and Fatal Instinct. And of course, Deathly Hallows part 2. Not exactly an adult movie line up with 2 whole shows that have a lot of sex. None of these are soft core porn.

    Cinemax is an entirely different story though. It’s not called skin-emax for no reason. Movies like Emmanuelle or Lady Chatterly are soft core porn. What HBO plays aren’t even in the same neighborhood.

    “along with Mulholland Dr. ”

    It’s a David Lynch movie, it’s in no way soft core porn.

  19. Fictional Queen

    Yes, it is very fucking annoying that stupid men think all females are just dying to be beautiful, and all are just desperately after beauty and being reassured by dudes that we look good! Eh, boys and men are so dumb.

  20. Katy

    From all of us (at least those who wish to join me in saying this) who cannot afford to see the dentist, I say visit the *hell* out of that fucker. Make him clean your teeth twice, even if they don’t need it.

  21. Vox

    …Also, the “You don’t need the make-ups” is code for “Look effortlessly dude-appeasing so we don’t have to consider the amount of time, money, life-force it takes appeasing dudes.” Keep your suffering silent and ladylike, please!


  22. pheeno

    awhirlinlondon – same thing happened to me, but without the pre cancerous cells. So I had to have implants after pulling 8 of my top teeth. Was asked all sorts of stupid questions as several dentists tried to figure out what was wrong.

    Because of the cost, I had to go to a dental surgeon who didn’t put you under to pull them. I don’t care what I have to do, if I have to go through that again it will not be conscious. One tooth was infected still so the local didn’t take even after 8 shots into the gum. So I lied and just told him it was finally deadened. In the middle of him pulling, it broke so he had to dig. I just wanted it over so I had to sit in that chair with him digging and pretend it didn’t hurt. He had warned me he was a face watcher, so he’d know if I felt any pain. I’m either damn stoic or he was too busy because he didn’t stop until he got it all out.

    Fun times.

  23. ew_nc

    I don’t think there was a trace of pure motivation in that sign. That young dude thought that if he tried fluffing women up with how he thinks they’re beautiful no matter what, he’d be guaranteed to get laid. I have no illusions that men really want us to feel good about ourselves.

  24. nails

    watched a special on dentistry today. Apparently there are people who are becoming Dental Therapists who can do most of what a dentist does, but for much less cost. Dental associations are trying to get rid of them because of the competition.

    They also said that for-profit chains try to upsell expensive dentures to people without insurance. Aspen Dental is the biggest chain of that sort. When patients can’t pay a sales representative helps them get a health cost credit card, some with interest rates of 29%, and the company got in trouble for billing people before they got their dental work done. They said their average patient is over 40 and has no insurance.

    Dental associations in charge of licenses said there wasn’t a way for them to discipline the companies since they are only allowed to regulate the behavior of dentists and such, not sales reps.

    Welcome to the future without socialized medicine.

  25. Ashley

    So I shouldn’t defend the boy because he’s shoulding women? LOL. Well I shan’t then.

  26. Notorious Ph.D.

    By the way, don’t try defending the outer space boy. Like every other dude on the planet, he is expressing his opinion on how girls should feel and what girls should look like. The “I just care about you” tone is a manipulative ruse.

    My apologies.

  27. AlienNumber

    Maybe I’m having a bad day, but having recently survived a conference with 10 really amazing female speakers and a rather mediocre “men panel” (for diversity purposes I guess; yawn!) and a gazillion of women giving way too much way too disproportionate a praise to the mediocre males, just for being, I dunno, half-decent, (don’t you love run-ons?), but not enough praise to the females.

    I find myself really annoyed that Ashley’s man-praising, completely ignorant comment, is the first in the Comments.

    Forgive me Ashley, but you need some detoxing. You really don’t need to fawn over dudes every chance you get.
    For every man you praise, God kills a kitten. It’s a fact! Think of the kittens!

  28. Ms. Lovegood

    @AlienNumber: what conference were you at? Just curious, because I was recently at a RadFem conference that had a men’s panel on it, which received many a’cheer. Maybe you are someone I know.

    Also, I agree with you a hundred percent.

    P.S. What’s “shoulding”? I’m reading it like shoulder but with an -ing at the end. That is probably not right.

  29. sam

    Right on, Vox.

  30. otoc

    HBO’s schedule is finally working for me.


    Wednesday 12am:

    Real Sex, Mulholland Dr., The Accused, Bad Girls From Valley High, Dark Fantasies, and Busty Coeds vs. Lusty Cheerleaders are on. Maybe I am nuts, but I believe HBO plays blocks of tit movies and shows, meant to be sexually stimulating to the viewer. Whether these movies are all strictly softcore pr0n or not, I don’t really care. The fact that The Accused was on in the block is still upsetting to me. And I’m done.

  31. pheeno

    That’s really odd because none of those are on my HBO schedule and that includes HBO East, West and the 5 other HBO channels. They are on cinemax on my schedule. After 8 pm cinemax is nothing but very adult themed movies.

  32. Ashley

    Alien Number, I’m sorry if you are having a bad day. And I’m sorry if you are annoyed by my opinion and are misinformed about my …..man praising? Not sure where you drew that conclusion, but nevermind because I don’t really care. , hopefully you work your way around your bad day and annoyance.

    I just thought it was funny that the kid in the photo is being shamed for suggesting what he thinks women “should” do, but if anyone even remotely comes to his defense, they are shoulded all over as well. I’m sorry, but no one gets to tell me who or what I should defend, think, or what “I need,” thanks.

  33. Linda

    Ashley did apologise after the first comment.

    That kid is totally trying to get laid – asshole.

    “Keep your suffering silent and ladylike, please!”

    Exactly. Why should dudes have to listen to girls whining about their bums looking big when they’re trying to play Halo Online?

  34. Nimravid

    So, he calls women “girls.” He tells us we don’t have to wear makeup and nice clothes to be beautiful, because we’re all beautiful. (Being beautiful isn’t optional, of course- women are for dudes to look at.) It’s very generous and sensitive of him to grant us permission to look the way he wants us to, without any awareness that he’s saying the reason that women are allowed to not wear makeup is that they still look good to him.

  35. gyp$y

    ”Unlacquered chixx are hott” oblivious adolescent troll is serving the P well by leaving no vestige available where women are immune from the male gaze and free to define their self-presentation on their own terms.This dudely preoccupation with the ”natural look” co-opts/assimilates any efforts of subversion from women who eschew cosmetics, drag and the femininity mandate into a male-centric fantasy of the fresh-faced, demure Madonna, thus ensuring the fetishization of every manifestation of the female form. Congrats to the dissident few of you who don’t own lipstick, you have now been involuntarily added as a menu item to dudenation’s chick-buffet, alongside The Girl Next Door, The Girl You Don’t Call Back, The Girl You Take Home to Mom, The Sassy Girl, etc.

  36. minervaK

    Fuckdammit, when will the term “slut shaming” die the death it so richly deserves? When? WHEN?

  37. The Nerd

    I grab a barf bag whenever I hear those teenie-bob boys on the radio singing “you don’t know you’re beautiful, that’s what makes you beautiful”.

  38. Keri

    I love the retorts from these gals. No empowerful fun feminism…just hilarity and a giant fuck you. I love to see that from the youths.

    I have a son who is 25 and I call bullshit on the what about the widdle young menz boo fucking hoo they mean well. And I have a daughter who can raise her middle finger with lightning speed, agility, and accuracy to doods given provocation. As a dear friend said recently, you gotta nip that mansplaining shit right in the bud.

  39. Saurs

    Woah, gyp$y, that’s like poetry, that is.

  40. Antoinette Niebieszczanski

    Having visited the eye doctor earlier this week (turns out I see better than I think I do), it’s now time to find a dentist. Ugh. Dental procedures give me agita like a monkey’s uncle, and rightfully so, having endured various periodontal horrorshows. This includes the dreaded Proxi-jet (it involves baking soda, and blasts half the taste buds off your tongue. Mine was raw and sore for days, hanging out on my chest like a necktie.) You don’t get me open-mouthed in *anyone’s* chair without serious happiness-inducing drugs.

  41. Antoinette Niebieszczanski

    Also, HBO’s Real Sex is fucking hilarious. Or at least the episode I saw was. It was in a Dreary Inn in St. Louis, awaiting a flight home the next day. The temperature was about 97 degrees at 2 a.m., the A/C wasn’t functioning very well, and I couldn’t sleep. Flipping through the channels, I discovered a lady with monstrous huge breasts playing some sort of keyboard instrument with them, wearing nothing but a feathered hat and fishnet stockings. The next segment featured some dorks rolling around naked in chocolate and other foodstuffs, eating it off of each others’ bodies (sort of gross, but still humorous). Last but far from least was the Boy with the Silver-Tipped Weenie, dancing in a cage — now that’s a damn good show, right there. I thought I’d laugh myself into a stroke, hee-hawing away like a donkey at 2 a.m. I can’t say whether all the episodes are as entertaining as this one was.

  42. Barbara P

    I second the awesomeness of gyp$y’s blaming. Very nice!

  43. AlienNumber

    natalie dee on “outer space:”

    Now that I think about it — does this male kid think he’s God, talking at girls from “outer space”? How benign.

    Ms. Lovegood, we were probably at the same conference, in Southern California?

  44. pheeno

    “I can’t say whether all the episodes are as entertaining as this one was.”

    Yes. They are. Especially when they ask drunken college kids on the street questions and the cackling and drunken answers begin. And there’s always a little old couple transforming into Dr Ruth thrown in for variety.

    Last night I watched One Nation Under Dog and sobbed like a goddamn baby. Should have just watched Real Sex.

  45. tinfoil hattie

    SCOTUS just upheld Health Care Act.

    Now: How is everyone supposed to pay for this required “health insurance,” and does one do jail time if one doesn’t have health insurance? Or does one simply have one’s pay garnisheed by the IRS, since health insurance is considered a “tax”?

  46. nails

    Its a tax penalty, with exemptions available if you can’t pay.

    The mandatory insurance thing isn’t all bad you know, it is also requiring businesses to offer the insurance to employees (except really small businesses).

  47. Nimravid

    If you don’t pay, starting in 2014 you would owe a fine unless you have an exemption for hardship, religious reasons, etc. But they made a special loophole for tax evasion as long as it’s health insurance tax evasion. So you can avoid this particular tax without going to jail or having your pay garnished. The only thing they can do is take it out of your tax refund, if you have one. You still have to pay for bombs or go to jail, but obviously health insurance, unlike war, is a very special moral question and they recognized that people would need to follow their conscience.

  48. Saurs

    Lessee: national public health service available to me whether I’m underpaid or unemployed or homeless at the mo’ or no, or coercion, provided from punitive tax, to break bread with big, private, profit-making (baby-eating) megacorporation? What a fucking conundrum. Let me break out my calculator and do the maths, &c.

  49. KittyWrangler

    Pandagon has a deliciously irritated post on this trend— not just this one kid– of holding up “no makeup, blah blah I approve” signs. Amanda makes the point that thanks to Patriarchy most men– particularly at this kid’s age– don’t really know what “natural” looks like, since what is usually presented as “natural” is simply more subtly made up.

    My childhood dentist had gigantic bushy eyebrows which, when lowered toward my face, I could see were full of dandruff, and the hygienist was a vicious flosser. My new dentist and his staff are always tsk-tsk-ing me for going six years without seeing a dentist; I explained that I was broke and uninsured but in their minds I was just being silly and obstinate.

    @awhirlinlondon- Glad to hear your dentist caught the problem! That is amazing.

  50. KittyWrangler

    I freely admit that I do not understand the healthcare ruling *at all.* If anyone knows of a good remedial source of explanation I can read I’d surely appreciate it.

  51. buttercup

    I once had a creepy inappropriate dentist but the one I have now is nice. His chairs all face out onto bay windows overlooking the big backyard of the practice, which is full of birds and deer and squirrels and so on. All the windows have bird feeders hanging on them.

  52. Jezebella

    The only way I can make it through dental procedures is with an iPod (so I can’t hear the horrible sound of the drilling) and a hefty flow of nitrous oxide. My dental hygienist has figured out I’m one of the few liberals in town, so we have whispered conversations about politics every time I go. It’s like we’re a secret society or something, I swear. I haven’t learned the secret handshake yet, dammit.

    Here, let me share with you my favorite healthcare-related link of the day:


    Yeah, that’s right. Real tweets from people who are FED UP with “Obamacare” and are just gonna flounce off to Canada. HA!

  53. Jezebella

    I forgot to say, the soulful expression of “concern” from outer space boy makes me want to hoof him in the junk. He’s basically saying, “No, really, I’d fuck you even if you weren’t wearing makeup! Because I’m awesome like that!” Yuck.

  54. Sylvie

    What an excellent “I am so sensitive” face.

  55. gyp$y

    @ Saurs and Barbara P,
    Aww, thank you. You ladies make me blush :)

  56. AK

    In the spirit of the open thread and since I know a number of blamers lift weights:
    The Strongest Woman In America Lives In Poverty

  57. Twisty

    “I freely admit that I do not understand the healthcare ruling *at all.*”

    Neither do most of the people who are against it. I’ll break it down for you. What it does is make it easier for undocumented married gay Mexican immigrants to take your job.

  58. yttik

    “Neither do most of the people who are against it.”

    Neither do most of the people who are for it.

  59. Saurs

    I thought KittyWrangler was asking about the implications ‘n’ intricacies of the supreme court decision, and not the act itself: like, which provisions they struck down and why, interpreting the dissenters’ argument, explaining why Roberts pulled a fast one, to what extent are appeals to constitutionality valid, and shit like that. (I don’t have a comprehensive link like that, KW, otherwise I’d throw it your way. SCOTUSblog is bursting with information, so that may interest you. I don’t think most folk who might have the actual learnin’ to proffer up a decent summary / translation have had an opportunity to closely read the whole thing yet, but it’s early days.)

    Personally, it boggles the noggin a bit that so many people–hungry for scraps–are willing to read in the act itself a wholly benevolent intention, like it’s not so much free market jazz. Once implemented, its outcome is not going to provide us the socialist paradise we all deserve, and it was designed, first and foremost, for corporate, not human, welfare. Now the insurance industry (which is in the business of making money, not providing health care) won’t go broke, and the bigguns are well on their way to forming legally sanctioned monopolies. Oh, and the fucking travesty of the medicaid expansion opt-out, wherein feisty governors can decide not to accept the expansion without penalty (thereby ensuring that very poor residents have access neither to Medicare nor subsidies to buy the insurance the act intends to make universal)? Surely no reasonable self-proclaimed reformer or progressive (people like Marcotte, I mean) can find a positive, honest way to spin that.

  60. Saurs

    In moderation, but if you were asking after a translation of the massively boring tome-like supreme court opinion, KittyWrangler, SCOTUSblog has got a summary written in “plain English.” It’s not the last word on the subject, but it clearly states which of the nine said and did what. It’s like a fucking soap opera.

  61. stacey

    Actually, what’s the deal with Obamacare? What do low-income or no-income people have to pay?

    (Being Canadian, I’ve paid absolutely no attention whatsoever to Obamacare.)

  62. Keira

    Ugh, dentists. I’m fine with the prodding and cleaning, but I don’t handle the needles. Only the ones in my face – jabs in the arm don’t faze me.

    I couldn’t afford the dentist until relatively recently, and then it took me ages to find a decent one. One dentist accused me of trying to manipulate her by making stressed out faces, as well as giving me the usual “silly girl should have never left it so long” crap. What would she have me do, sell a kidney for a dental check up? Its the only aspect of my life so far where I glimpse what life could be like in a place with no welfare, and its scary. I’ve been poor (though with education and other privileges) but where I was in Oz there were govt payments, non-preachy soup kitchens, free doctors, etc. Dentistry isn’t cheap though, even on welfare.

    I have a fab dentist now. She’s funny, kind, has an all female staff (though maybe only because its a low-paid, servile/admin job, so dudes don’t want it). She’s really touchy though, which I find maternal and comforting, but no doubt others would be thoroughly creeped out by it.

    On the feminist topic of the day, I’m thinking of making t-shirts with “I’m not for decoration” or “I don’t exist for you visual pleasure, jerk” on them. But then I’d just have jerks and funfems and sensitive males want me to explain/defend myself.

  63. quixote

    “Dear Guys:
    Go ahead and be insecure.
    Your shoulders need to be wider than your waists.
    No pots.
    And you’re not fucking anything.”

    I’d write it on a sign and take a picture and upload it, but that’s too much like work.

  64. quixote

    And my rocket ship is in the shop so it’s hard to get out to space.

  65. josquin

    Dang, Twisty – they dipped your hands in hot wax? Why on earth??That is a charming mystery!
    In my town there’s a dentist who offers dental work “with” or “without”. “With” consists of having the office dog- a placid pug- placed on your lap where he stays for the duration of the procedures. Apparently the dog is very popular with people who experience anxiety during dental work.

  66. tinfoil hattie

    Question: Why is Nora Ephron being hailed as a “feminist”?

  67. Val

    Amen to that, TFH! I had a real love/hate relationship w/her writings (her screenplays I loathed) – it would seem as though she ALMOST got it, then she would capitulate…

  68. speedbudget

    I am sure if Outerspace Boy caught me just waking up in the morning in my purely natural state, he would take back that statement post haste.

    In the immortal words of Edie McClug, “Mm, mm, mm, what a little asshole.”

  69. KittyWrangler

    Thanks, Saurs! I’m wading through that link right now. And yes, I meant I was literally confused by what the act means, practically speaking, not that I was for or against it.

    I don’t know how other people navigate health insurance law, or even simply use their own insurance. My husband’s company is constantly switching providers and while I thank my lucky stars we are finally insured, I find reading about each new policy completely mind-boggling. Then when I’m ready to use my insurance at the doctor’s office I have to explain and re-explain my policy to condescending administrators. I think they act so condescending because I’m visibly struggling to be able explain my own policy, yet I’m wondering why I’m having to explain to professionals in the first place. It’s scary because I know if the insurance company or doctors decide to rip me off I’m the perfect victim because no matter how often I check my policy I never know what the hell is going on. I must nip this rant in the bud* right now or I will lose it!

    “undocumented married gay Mexican immigrants”
    That does it, I’m moving to Canada to protest this move toward the socialization of healthcare!

    *When I was a kid I thought the phrase was, “nip it in the butt.”

  70. shelby

    Twisty said: “I forgot to put in the post “By the way, don’t try defending the outer space boy. Like every other dude on the planet, he is expressing his opinion on how girls should feel and what girls should look like.”

    Ashley said: “I’m sorry, but no one gets to tell me who or what I should defend, think, or what “I need,” thanks.”

    Huh? Then go somewhere else and defend and think.

  71. quixote

    About understanding insurance policies: you can’t. I finally figured that out when I needed to know up front how much a procedure would cost me. First the admin folks at the doctor’s office told me nicely not to worry about. They’d bill me. You don’t understand, I said. I’d like to know what I’m going to pay before I have to pay it. That’s apparently a new concept in medicine. We went around and around for a while. When I got to the head of claims filing in that particular practice, she finally explained it.

    “We don’t know what it’ll cost. We have to file the claim to find out.”


    But that’s when I realized it was a waste of time to try to be one of these informed “consumers” of health care they’re always yammering on about.

  72. ElizaN

    Anne Sinclair has decided she’s not going to stand by her man! I love it when that happens.


  73. Fictional Queen

    Well men don’t worry about us turning sexist when they say misogynist bullshit like that, so we don’t have to worry about them turning misogynist by not liking it when they say bullshit. They’d hate women anyways.

  74. dillene

    You know, I fell asleep once during a root canal. *flex*

    (Is that something to be proud of? I’m never sure.)

  75. Phledge

    I have nothing significant to contribute to this conversation, but I had to say that I absolutely love the “sad-face” from the woman with the first reaction picture. It is a pure expression of contempt and condescension that perfectly captures how I feel about Outerspace Boy.

  76. stacey

    Luckily i found an infographic explaining Obamacare, because I can’t seem to understand anything these days without an infographic.

    h ttp://www.fastcodesign.com/1662039/infographic-of-the-day-what-obamacare-means-for-you

    Or maybe I’m just a visual learner, and that’s why I did so badly in university.

  77. Random Anomaly

    “Its the only aspect of my life so far where I glimpse what life could be like in a place with no welfare, and its scary”.

    That is a daily reality for most immigrants in the US. You have to be a citizen (which, even if you qualify for citizenship, requires free time to study for a test that most Americans can’t pass, and costs about $600) to be eligible for welfare. There is no dentist, and the longer you “wait” to go, the harder it becomes to get a job because they hire people with nicer teeth. If you get injured, you have to fit it yourself, unless it’s life-threatening, in which case you can walk to the ER.

    Socialist health care is the only reasonable way to go.

  78. Ms. Lovegood

    @AlienNumber: Yep, were you at the Stop Porn Culture conference?

    @Phledge: Me too.

  79. Owly

    quixote, the first time I had to go to the mental hospital I was very concerned about what it would cost. They wouldn’t tell me unless I signed myself in. I declined to do so, so they called the cops. I was basically forced to sign myself in (he said “we can do this the easy way or the hard way”) and THEN they passed me a sheet of paper stating how much it would be per day without insurance. Thank gods I had it. That has to be illegal, right?

    I have a few major problems with some of the responses to Sensitive Boy. So we know this much: women are putting on makeup/styling their hair/ getting plastic surgery/ gettin’ all dolled up for some reason. Fun-feminists tell us we do it for ourselves. I can’t buy that. Can we PLEASE stop kidding ourselves by pretending that make up and shaving are part of our personal expression and quite separate from any societal pressure? Some commenters at other blogs make the point that some women face social and career consequences by not following the status quo. Fair enough. But can we PLEASE stop pretending that we’re doing something revolutionary and self-loving by upholding said status quo? If I had a nickel for every comment that said “Don’t judge me, I do blah blah blah for ME!” I could quit my crappy waitress job and retire in comfort. Another frustrating thing I saw was people saying that since some men like wearing make up too that it must mean that gettin’ all dolled up is something natural.

    That said, Space-Pout Kid is full of shit. I know his type. I live in Austin, I’m surrounded by the hippest of hip, the dudes that praise natural beauty, but only if it looks exactly like manufactured beauty. I love the comments that point out that men DO want women to artificially enhance their looks, but they don’t want to see them at it.

    I don’t do any of that shit. What you see is what you get, all day, every day. Take it or fucking leave it and get the hell away from me.

  80. Brownian Motion

    Oh God, those pictures. Women’re supposed to feel guilty because men feel guilty for making them feel guilty. It’s reached criticality. It’s self-sustaining. And the fact he’s appropriating the appearance of the loss of agency (just look at how helpless that little face is! Aww!), with the implication that men are just as helpless against the P, just makes it worse.

    Pynchon said it best: “The man’s thirst for guilt was insatiable as the desert’s for water.”

  81. speedbudget

    One good thing about the ACA (no, I will NOT condescendingly refer to it as Obamacare. ACA is just as easy.) is that people can start expecting their refund checks around August I believe. One of the requirements of the law is that insurance companies use 80% of the premiums paid for actual health care and not administrative or marketing costs. For families in my state, that means an average $500 check.

    It also means that insurance companies can’t charge me more on my premium just because I’m a woman.

    Here is a website where you can learn all about the law: http://www.healthcare.gov/law/index.html

  82. Twisty

    “Take it or fucking leave it and get the hell away from me.”

    Damn, Owly, we should meet up for coffee sometime.

  83. Owly

    Indeed we should. It would be easy!

  84. Comradde PhysioProffe

    Take it or fucking leave it and get the hell away from me.

    Fucke, yeah! Outstanding motto!

  85. Anne

    “tinfoil hattie

    June 29, 2012 at 7:21 am (UTC -6)

    Question: Why is Nora Ephron being hailed as a “feminist”?”

    We set the bar about ankle-high.

    Speaking of the global tendency to over-praise men, everyone and their pet gerbil is blowing sunshine up Jay Smooth’s ass for telling dudes sexism is a real thing they need to take seriously. It’s not Jay Smooth’s fault, but it ticks me off that whenever a female video blogger says essentially the exact same shit, she’s largely ignored except for the people who tell her she’s oversensitive.

  86. tinfoil hattie

    Go, Owly! If I were craft-talented, I’d cross-stitch me a sampler with that motto on it. And I’d hang it on my ass.

  87. Murasaki

    I always displace my contacts somewhere upside my skull when I read in magazines n shit men saying “I love girls without make-up”. DUUUUUDE! You’ve never SEEN a woman without make-up. The women you think you are seeing without make-up are the ones that put it on real nice and use a lot of beige, taupe, bone, fawn and sand.

    Lucky we have universal health here in Astraya and I can go get my lens’ fished out of my brain for free!

  88. Twisty

    Take it or fucking leave it and get the hell away from me.

    Fucke, yeah! Outstanding motto!

    And is now unanimously, by me, adopted as the official motto of Savage Death Island (see sidebar, scroll down).

  89. Pennyroyal

    Outer space boy is just some pimply teenage dude who will do anything to get someone to fuck him. That’s not a look of bullshit sensitivity on his face, that’s a look of desperation. He’s desperate to get what he believes he’s entitled to, so desperate that he’s willing to resort to what he probably thinks is feminism. I sincerely hope no one fucks him, so that he learns he’s not entitled to shit.

    Let them fuck Fleshlights!

  90. Pennyroyal

    Since it’s an open thread, a valuable quote from a survivor of sex trafficking/prostitution:

    “I can walk the streets all I want, or advertise … but until you stop, until you pick up the phone to call, until you open your car door, no harm comes to me. No violence comes to me.”
    -Joy Friedman


    In case you want to read the article containing this quote. Of course it’s been relegated to the “Freedom Project” portion of CNN’s website rather than the mainstream sections where men would be more likely to see it.

  91. Owly

    I’m flattered that you all like my shitty attitude.

  92. Comradde PhysioProffe

    And is now unanimously, by me, adopted as the official motto of Savage Death Island (see sidebar, scroll down).


  93. Doctress Ju'ulia

    Owly, I LOVE- and share- your shitty attitude.

    Space-boy needs a swift kick in the nuts. The response picture woman made me guffaw so loud! I keep looking at it over and over and cracking up.

  94. Julia

    I was just thinking, if I saw a woman holding that sign, I’d really like it, and that’s why i was also tempted to be like “give him a break!” along w Ashley and (kind of) Notorious. It is pretty obvious, along w his Justin Beiber hair and pouty face, that he thinks he will get more play by saying stuff like that. I think he’s just so jacked up on hormones that he feels attracted to tons of.. girls? women? his age. I doubt seriously he would find a heavy, unshaved, short-haired older woman “fucking beautiful.” but he seems more horny than consciously manipulative. how guys that young get unconsciously manipulative is pretty amazing. it takes a very conscious system of brainwashing.

  95. Julia

    I just realized it was the other pic, the sassy response, that had the Justin Beiber hair. my apologies, concern horndog. down with Beiber hair on any person.

  96. TwissB

    That Owly motto has real beauty and universal power after surgical excision of the parasitical, dudely f-word.

    That said, as the pundits like to say, I salute Owly’s wide-ranging comments on how to drive people sane enough to seek mental health help crazy, on make-up as “choice,” and on those ever-self-lovin’ Austin dudes.

  97. madspinster

    OMG, that carefully manicured, pasty faced, Alien Dude is soooo creepy. Just look at those woeful eyes. And some poor teenage girl, with subtle make-up, dyed hair and the appropriate smile, will be taken in, because she has already learned to expect much worse and the Dude will assuage her hunger with a dinner and drinks. But what really gets me is that we waste so much time on the clueless Alien Dudes, rather than on the Smart Big Boys, who totally get what keeps them in power. Because Alien Dude obviously is clueless, even if he is out to get laid. He might laugh it all off with the Big Boys, but eventually they’ll dump him for being an idiot.

  98. midge

    You all realize that there are actual problems in the world today…right? Spending time musing about the motivations of a random teenaged boy seems to be a bit of a pointless task. Umm, attempting to differentiate himself from the more common meathead, anyone?

    Please consider what level of opression this child is capable of and decide if he is really worthy of your ire. Maintaining this level of anger and resentment is a waste of time and energy that would be better spent on an actual problem. Ya know, a problem that has an actual affect on another living being.

  99. qvaken

    Now, hold on. Did anybody stop to think of the dude’s unique male perspective? I’ll bet that he’s a really Nice Guy! If we don’t send him a batch of cookies and a girlfriend, pronto, then he’ll devolve into a nasty adult misogynist. Have we all forgotten that women are responsible for all expressions of flagrant misogyny and MRAism?

    On a more serious note, the whole point is that it’s a Catch-22. Or, a Catch-Infinity. It’s not really about how much work it looks like you’ve put into the required task, it’s about displaying that you’ve capitulated, wherein the capitulatees are men and their preferences. There are billions of men in the world and they each have varying, patriarchy-constructed preferences. Not only that, but their preferences are constantly changing – not only as they grow and mature, but also as their mood changes throughout the day. So we’re constantly expected to capitulate to men’s preferences, where the preferences of each man in our lives are different, where they’re always changing what they prefer of us, and where it’s impossible to guess and predict what they might want from us at any given moment. It’s an impossible and exasperating task, it’s unfair, and that’s why women constantly feel like we’re failing.

    So this kid is just giving us another reason to remember that we’re failures. And this is what men don’t get. It doesn’t matter if their personal message is that we should be skinny people who are completely hairless below the scalpline and have suspiciously prominent facial features, or if it’s to maintain a big and round figure with hairy everything and visible bags below our eyes; the overall message is to do what he damn well tells us to do, when he tells us to do it.

  100. qvaken

    …And to regret it if we don’t do it.

  101. Lindsey

    Pardon me hijacking the open thread, but has anyone else seen the irony of google-bots not being able to tell the difference between sex and rape then blaming it on the people trying to disuss abuse (ie the victims of their partriachal attitudes)?


  102. What Is History

    As if it wasn’t enough for Outer Space Boy to insist we conform to his beauty standard, this is about more than beauty. “You don’t need nice clothes” translates to “I didn’t give you permission to buy nice things for yourself.”

  103. janicen

    I’m flattered that you all like my shitty attitude. – Owly

    It’s not a shitty attitude at all. It’s the only attitude to have. When my daughter was 10 she was being interviewed on the telephone to see if she qualified to participate in a market research study for which she would be paid. I had worked with the firm in the past and found that it involved sitting in a room for an hour and presenting an opinion about something and then getting paid immediately, in cash. So I gave my permission for them to talk to my daughter on the phone as long as I could listen in on the call. The interviewer asked a series of questions about my daughter’s interests. Does she read a lot, what types of books, etc. Then the interviewer said, “Are you interested in fashion?” Response, “No”. The female interviewer was apparently surprised at the answer because there was a bit of a pause and then she giggled and said, “Aw come on, even just a little?” and my daughter didn’t skip a beat and responded, “No. I wear what I want and I don’t care what anybody thinks.”

    She qualified to participate in the study despite her non-conforming attitude. When it was my turn to speak to the interviewer again she said, “I’m looking forward to meeting your daughter. She sounds like a very interesting girl.” She is. I learn a lot from her every day.

  104. Wandering Uterus

    Tried to change my moniker to “Pennyroyal” and got royally censored, not entirely sure why, aside from a suggestion that desperate men should try using toys rather than expecting anything from women. Just wanted to change the name because I’ve found that “Wandering Uterus” is taken by a blogger who isn’t me. I don’t want to give any mistaken impressions about my identity.

    Nevertheless, I maintain that Space Boy is in fact desperate more than anything. His face is sheer desperation and his sign, to me, says, “Ladies, please, I’ll take any of you. Even without makeup!” This belies his supposed attitude of tolerance toward womankind. Why would dating a woman sans makeup require desperation in the first place, unless he felt wearing no makeup was detrimental?

    He expects that because his teenage libido is in full swing, he should therefore be entitled to the company of women (or girls, assuming he’s under legal age). Cry me a river, Space Boy.

    “And some poor teenage girl, with subtle make-up, dyed hair and the appropriate smile, will be taken in, because she has already learned to expect much worse and the Dude will assuage her hunger with a dinner and drinks.”

    I hope not, madspinster. I think that many teenage girls will be hip to this type of idiocy, and spend time with him because they think he’s “cute.” But he’s such an obvious moron that it seems unlikely anyone will be taken in by his deception for very long.

  105. Stillwater

    Since we are sharing… My dentist is madman with crazed eyes that works in a barely furnished office. He has a private study that is kept completely dark. He ducks in there between numbing people. I figure he’s either a drug addict or interestingly insane. But he is cheap, kind, likes to talk about whatever book I’m reading, and has never made a mistake. That’s what I care about. I’ve been through many dentists before having this one and had so much dental work I can’t tell which teeth of mine are real, and which ones are false. If you get a bad dentist (and there are many), keep looking. I’ve found a correlation between huge view windows and bird feeders and lack of care.

  106. Lizor

    “I’ve found a correlation between huge view windows and bird feeders and lack of care.”

    Now that you mention it I have witnessed that correlation too. And also a correlation between those things and insistence on pocket-gouging policies like “The dentist will not examine you until you have had an x-ray, a visit to our in-office hygienist, etc.”

  107. GT66

    Don’t worry. He’s young. He’ll learn soon enough that women aren’t worth helping. After a horrible marriage to and and even worse divorce from one of your ilk, his little placard will read: “Hey Ladies, G.F.Y.”

  108. Greywolf

    Thankfully no problems in my dentist’s office, even with the bird feeders. I wish they’d get rid of the TVs in every room, but, based on the movie choices, those are there for the kiddies. Much better than the one I had in my previous location. Still hate those scraping tools though.

    Can’t think if anything about Outerspace Boy that hasn’t already been said, so I’ll just thank you all for the wonderful reading you’ve provided

  109. Jen

    Interpreting Outer Space Boy’s sign:

    Dear girls in my school who are skinny and pretty,

    I’ve noticed that you are self-conscious about they way you look. As a male, and thus an authority on aesthetics and mental health, I’d like you to know that my BEAUTY METER is pointing directly at maximum beautiful whether or not you wear makeup or nice clothes. In fact, I don’t mind if you stop wearing clothes altogether! Ha ha? Seriously, though, I fear that your body issues might prevent you from being naked around me/having sex with me, so I’d like to encourage you to be more secure. Also, I’ve notice that girls like sensitive guys, and pointing out your insecurities and then providing my patented SPACE BALM to them will probably qualify me as sensitive/sexy (also, photoshop). I love each and every one of you.


  110. tinfoil hattie

    OT but related: Isn’t it a mite hypocritical for the world to express “shock and outrage” at the video of the execution of a woman from Afghanistan, when 99% of entertainment is based on the maiming, rape, mutilation, punishment, and murder of women?

    Oh, but that’s just “pretend,” right?

  111. Amrit Donaldson

    On NPR this morning, one commentator referred to the murders of women in Afganistan as “sport” for men. A chilling moment of honesty.

  112. Hane

    Jen, tell me where you live and I’ll ship you the home-baked item of your choice. You have given us the best translation of OSB’s comments thus far.

    I was one of those girls whom OSB obviously didn’t refer to in his sweet and generous and self-serving post. It is only now, in my 50s, that I have proudly decided to opt out of struggling to be fuckworthy by the kind of man he’ll grow up to be. It is so swell to be invisible. Many women of all ages know the withering feeling of being ignored because we aren’t Prongworthy. I plan to use my powers of invisibility for both good AND evil.

  113. Fictional Queen

    How do you deal with the patriarchy blues?
    Too much Andrea Dworkin brought depression!

  114. Fictional Queen

    Why my comment in moderation? I said nothing bad!!
    What do you blamers think about the laws Andrea Dworkin hoped to pass??

  115. Fede

    OT entirely. But nice.

    (Incidentally, Twisty, I am a little bit apprehensive about using your blog to spread the word about causes I want to promote. If you get tired of me doing this, you have only to say the word, of course. If not, well, I’m doing this because I think you and your readership might be interested, and because I can think of no better way to spread the word about worthy stuff.)

    Aunt Lute Books is a “nonprofit press, focused on bringing the voices of women, particularly queer women and women of color, to publication.” Gloria Anzaldúa was a “Chicana-Tejana-lesbian-feminist poet, theorist, and fiction writer.” Aunt Lute want to publish the 4th edition of Anzaldúa’s Borderlands/La Frontera. Give a buck to make it happen, those in the commentariat who are interested in that kind of reading and have a buck to spare?


  116. Jen

    “New ‘Anti-Abortion Pill’ Kills Mother, Leaves Fetus Alive”

    Maybe it’s time to start reading The Onion again.


  117. Lovepug

    Can I just go off topic long enough to seek safe haven from that dick blister Tosh and his assertion that rape jokes are always funny? That guy is not well. I had the misfortune of walking in on someone else watching his show once where there was extensive laugh track about a youtube video of some guy yanking his friend out of the front door of the kid’s house and anally raping him with a dildo in the kid’s driveway. And since it was pixelated it was all okay and hilarious.

    I have had it. Men really could not care less that women get raped. They just think as long as they’re not the ones doing it, no need to give it a second thought.

  118. josquin

    Lovepug – also feeling such disgust at this so-called comedian. I would like to point out however that there are times when men get very very upset indeed when some other guy is doing the raping – that’s when their wives or daughters are the ones getting raped. They see that their “property” is under threat, and suddenly, they care! The hypocrisy of it makes me sick.

  119. phio gistic

    OH my, speaking of asshat Tosh and the Onion:


  120. Saurs

    Holy hell, that Onion article is misguided. (Or maybe I’m just not getting it.)

  121. Jezebella

    Oh, it’s worse than Tosh just saying rape jokes are hilarious. No. When a woman in the audience yelled, “They’re never funny,” he replied with “wouldn’t it be funny if, like, 5 guys raped her right now, like right here?” He never apologized for the joke, but did the classic, “Sorry if you were offended [when I told some people that we would laugh if they assaulted you].” That dude is disgusting and unfunny.

  122. Saurs

    Jezebella, and not only was the lady emphatically not a heckler, he’d fucking asked for audience participation. By audience, of course, he meant dudes, by participation he meant knowing bro-chuckles in response to airing his rape fantasies.

    Back to that Onion thing: it’s not funny, and it’s not cute, and it, in fact, reinforces all the oppressive shit it believes it’s sending up. When I lay out my definition of rape culture to some sheltered and unassuming guy, I never make a huge point out of, never make allowances for the presumed fact that most men aren’t rapists, ‘cos: that’s besides the point, I don’t care about a guy’s feelings when it comes to rape, and no-one can tell who’s a rapist and who isn’t, apart from when they’re raping. No magical signs, no red Rs painted on their shoulders. Most straight sex is coercive, anyhow. So while the majority of the world doesn’t go around raping folk, how we narrowly define the act and react to it depends on the social status of the victim and the rapist, always erring on the side and to the benefit of the rapist.

    That’s why rapists are theoretically maligned but in reality regularly defended and often shielded and protected, because they don’t fit the classic mold as self-servingly defined by men: dude lurking in an alley, attacking an unsuspecting (nice, white, pretty, young) woman, dressed “scantily,” and in a “bad” neighborhood. All yer classism and racism and sexism and victim-blaming in one, nice, tidy package, something that happens exclusively to women that men can visualize and wank off to, secure in the knowledge that as they have never raped somebody in a dark alley they’re lily-white and innocent. Real Rape becomes something almost no man has ever committed (stalking stranger, blood and violence, stupid lady putting herself in a dangerous situation, etc.), and all other forms of rape become pornographic sub-genres, “date,” “spousal,” “drunk,” and “prison” rapes. Real Rape becomes a morality tale, a lesson for women: don’t do XYZ-thing, and you won’t “get” yourself raped. All to the benefit of men, who’re never badgered with such childish fairy tales because if they don’t control themselves there’s always something or someone else to blame.

    And the Onion thing subverts none of those shitty fucking lies. Tosh committed a sin, so rape is his punishment. (Picture a bunch of white dude-bros giggling insanely over the prospect of Sandusky being raped in prison.) And he gets the classic kind of rape, the roving gang of rapists in a dark alley infected with HIV/AIDS sort. And we’re supposed to savor the details of this fantasy, with its talk of blood, precise number of minutes, Tosh’s tears and grimaces. How is this helping, exactly? (Not blaming you for linking to it, phio, just wondering who the fuck thought that was advisable.)

  123. Evaie

    Sometimes when dudes are having fantasies about men being raped, at least their taking break from the fantasies about us being raped, so that’s something.

  124. lizor

    Jumping on the derail: More smart thinking from Texas here:


  125. Voiceinthewilderness

    You’re all very quick to condemn this guy, and maybe you’d review your opinion if I relate my experience. Only a few days ago I was haunted by an ill-defined worry, a vague sense that some question remained unanswered at the back of my mind. This feeling of unease hovered over me all day until, like storm clouds parting to reveal a blue sky, OBS’s tumblr post set all my subconscious anxiety at ease. You see, I hadn’t been wearing make up that day, and my nicest clothes were in the laundry basket. ‘Thank you,’ I thought with sudden clarity, ‘Thank God that I’m still capable of inspiring boners without wearing make-up.’ I knew then that my existence wasn’t nullified by my lack of eyeliner; somewhere out there, a dude would be capable of sticking me with his cock, even if I wasn’t in my ‘nicest clothing’.

    This guy has granted me the confidence to know I’m still bonerific as long as I’m beautiful in a pure, natural way; you know, like a child. As long as I can make a guy hard, my work here is done.

  126. Friend of Snakes

    Re Tosh and The Onion article: I chuckled.

  127. otoc

    Comedy Central is currently airing a Tosh.0 marathon.

  128. Jezebella

    Well Comedy Central can kiss my entire fat ass. There’s nothing on there I really need to see anyway. Time to write a letter to that effect, I guess.

  129. Shelby

    “All to the benefit of men, who’re never badgered with such childish fairy tales because if they don’t control themselves there’s always something or someone else to blame.”

    Never a truer sentence was uttered.

  130. nails

    I thought the onion article was funny. Tosh’s non-apology was used as a chance for him to talk about the point of his joke *before* the interruption. The point, according to him, was that people should be able to laugh at anything, including truly horrible things like rape. It is just a stupid thing to say that displays a huge amount of privilege. I’ve heard this same line of crap from other young white dudes. They don’t understand what it is like to be subject to genuinely horrible shit, and apparently cannot sufficiently empathize with people who are. They think victims of rape who aren’t able to chuckle are just lacking their fresh manly perspective, rather than reacting normally to a terrible crime. Narcissism like that deserves a thorough mocking.

  131. Anne

    The Onion piece makes fun of Tosh being an unfunny douchebag who thinks rape makes a hilarious punchline. Personally, I’m in favor of it.

    Has anybody else noticed there’s this new thing among sensitive progressive liberal dudebros to come down on prison rape jokes or the pat response to the rare occasion of a rapist* being convicted that he’ll “get his justice in prison?”
    “Rape is rape when it happens to a man too!” is their plaintive cry.
    The very same sensitive progressive liberal dudebros tell women (and what few men who don’t entirely suck) they have no sense of humor if they point out the fact that Daniel Tosh is an unfunny shit-for-brains who makes Carrot Top look like a comedic genius. Or at best they’ll silently sit on their asses like a bunch of chickenshits when their fellow progressive liberal dudebros are having some laffs about regular everyday politically correct rape in which women and girls are the victims.

    In summary:
    Cracks about the hypothetical rape of convicted rapists: terrible horrible no good very bad thing.
    Cracks about the actual rape of actual women and girls: LULz!

    If you want to see this hypocritical crapolla in action, just search for any rape story on Gawker and read the comments. Bring a barf bag.

    *Only the “unambiguously bad” kind of rapists, of course. The ones they don’t have a ready excuse for, like those who brandish weapons and are caught in the act by multiple male witnesses, or the ones who prey on boys, which of course are pretty much the only rapists who are ever convicted.

  132. tinfoil hattie

    I thought the Onion article was beilliant, not least because rape & Tosh apologists will fall all over themselves trying to explain how it’s not funny!

  133. Frumious B.

    Knickers are twisted at mention of “vaginal discharge,” gratuitously naked model is so banal that no eyebrows are raised.


    At least there was no side boob?

  134. Lovepug

    Shakesville has been all over the Tosh assault. I’m glad others are also bringing up the epidode of Tosh.0 that actually aired wherein the guy rapes his friend with a dildo – and everyone laughs.

    While I find it validating that others feel as I do, none of them are men.

    Something about this has really shaken me. It’s like I reached the next level on my journey to SDI where it’s just really, really sinking in how much men do NOT give a shit about rape. They’re just so over it.

    Must be nice to be able to talk about rape whenever and however you want, then when someone else brings up an uncomfortable reality about it, you can just tell them to shut the fuck up.

    Seriously, men do not care that women get raped. At all. Zip. Nada. Nichts. Bupkis. If they’re not doing the raping, they don’t want to hear about it unless it’s either 1) porn and therefore okay because it’s not “real” or 2) a joke being made by a dudebro comedian because in this insensitive world we live in everything is funny.

  135. TwissB

    I’m getting awfully tired of looking at that horse’s rear end in that parched landscape, not to mention SpaceBoy’s sorry face. Twisty?

  136. Lidon

    What?! But look at her sweet expression!

  137. Marcie

    I’m confused.
    Why is the Onion bit funny, while rape jokes in general are taboo?
    Maybe someone could clarify the difference.

  138. Katherine

    I think the general guidance would be that – if the joke is at the expense of victims of rape – not okay; if the joke is at the expense of the rapist, or that subverts or critiques rape culture – potentially okay, and potentially very funny, if done well and skillfully.

    There are some links to such jokes around and about, if I can find ’em:



    You don’t have to find any or all of them funny personally of course, but I think the principle is sound.

  139. Katherine

    Damn, longer comment with links caught in moderation.

    Basic gist: jokes at expense of rapist or critiquing rape culture – potentially good and funny; jokes at expense of rape victims or potential rape victims – not good, not funny.

  140. TwissB

    Appending to Saurs’s strong July 13 comment, rape or the threat of rape is central to maintaining the subordination of women as a class. Like lynching, rape terrorizes all members of the target class and empowers the class exempt from its threat. Like the “abortion issue”, rape focuses extremely invasive , sexualized attention on women’s bodies and away from the agent of the harm. A socially tolerated exercise of harmful control over the bodies of women, whether by rape, pimping, or state-mandated pre-abortion ultrasound probes, delivers a demeaning and intmidating message to all women. So does a gift-wrapped S/M novel.

    Heard any good lynching, Holocaust, or AIDS jokes lately? The unwritten rule is simple. If it could hurt men, it’s not funny. And when it comes to child rape, “child” means boys. But “jail bait” references to young girls are always good for a snicker.

  141. TwissB

    The intended point of my comment was to say that the Onion’s pretended reversal piece failed as humor because it merely emphasized men’s proprietary right to invade women’s bodies by ridiculing in delicious detail the absurd notion of treating men that way.

  142. phio gistic

    I don’t think the Onion piece was really meant to be funny as such. I thought it was intentionally, outrageously, cruel satire to make a point – that rape isn’t something to laugh at. The explicit horrific details might influence men to empathize with rape victims or at least feel guilty when defending rape jokes. Goading people that support Tosh’s rape joking (obviously nobody here is doing that) to hypocritically protest the Onion’s piece is a bonus.

    I was mostly surprised that someone at the Onion is paying attention to current feminist issues and creating such vehement responses.

  143. Kali

    The intended point of my comment was to say that the Onion’s pretended reversal piece failed as humor because it merely emphasized men’s proprietary right to invade women’s bodies by ridiculing in delicious detail the absurd notion of treating men that way.

    I don’t think a generic man was the target of the Onion piece. I think it was ridiculing Tosh’s lack of empathy with the rape victim by asking him, in essense, “would you find it funny if it happened to you?”

  144. erinyes

    This shit has been making the rounds on FB lately, and it’s so fucking depressing to see women friends agreeing with it.


  145. Saurs

    The Onion has been pretty spot-on about tackling rape culture in the past (cf 1, 2, 3).

    But, literally, where’s the fucking joke in the piece in question? It’s basically: “wouldn’t it be funny if, like, Tosh got raped by five guys right now? And he got a disease?” Oh, my aching sides. That’s not punching up, that’s punching down, exactly the kind of non-joke Tosh specializes in, where the punchline is just a thinly-veiled rape fantasy aimed at somebody who did something bad. Rape as punishment.

    It’d be so easy to forgo relishing in Tosh’s theoretical physical pain, and instead aim the joke squarely at the culture that enables rapists, of which Tosh is a part. You know, nobody believing Tosh about what happened, police asking him if he was wearing a particularly sexy t-shirt about beer that might have inadvertently advertised “sex was in the air” (hanky code for douches), newspapers wondering what he was doing in that part of town without a female escort, local hospital denying him a rape kit because he’d been drinking, the five rapists suing him (and winning) for slander, loud-mouthed AM radio shitheads wondering whether this wasn’t all about Tosh regretting participating in an orgy, criminal case against the rapists dead-locking a jury because Tosh couldn’t remember the color of a car parked outside the alley (and therefore is obviously lying or hysterical or something), defense lawyers for the rapists speculating that Tosh might not know the definition of penetration, and so on and so forth. In other words, all the shit that actually happens to actual rape victims.

    Instead, it’s herp-a-derp rape can be painful, ha ha. Let’s all drink his tears and bathe in his blood. That’ll show ‘im that rape’s not funny.

    Also, everything TwissB said. ‘Cos it’s great.

  146. qvaken

    Regarding erinyes’s link: Yeah, don’t read the comments. These female antifeminists are awfully popular with the MRAs. And man, do out-of-work MRAs work hard in the online world.

    Whoop dee doo. She managed to shit on an entire not-for-profit movement that exists to make the world a better place for people like her. She even used misogyny to make her point. And she’ll be forever an ally with the powerful people of the world, so long as she keeps doing it.

    I can’t tell if she just grew older and learned that feminism is more nuanced than she had thought – that it doesn’t merely revolve around keeping one person happy – or if she grew older and learned that you can make $50/article by spreading the antifeminist word.

  147. lizor

    Very depressing, erinyes. But notable that most of the cheerleading is from a chorus of dudes with a few people (female people) asking her to at least articulate what feminist materials and movements have her thong in such a twist. Oh well, best go for a swim or a margarita and try to forget the bad taste in my mouth.

  148. shnurki

    erinyes’s link is a really poor, vague, and privilegey piece of writing. (Among other things, the author implies that because she had the courage to join a computer club at her high school, she is now an authority on overcoming adversity.) I’m sorry the article’s got any play at all, but I’m sure any of the commenters on this site (maybe not me) could produce a far superior rebuttal with minimal effort.

  149. Kate

    Hi is this still an open thread. I am amazed I went to the movies with two women friends to see a psychological movie called the Last Waltz, I would not rush out to see it. Michelle Williams one of the premier actresses in Hollywood apparently (a) Has a babyish body type about 45 kg with no hips (b) is often naked in this movie including full frontal and (c) is humilated i.e. pees in the pool, pees in the toilet, frankly porny sex scenes, frequently topless.

    Yes there is also a lovely shower scene after the swimming pool involving naked women of age and color, I hope they got paid a lot for those scenes, would you be happy to see your naked grandmother on film, the point is whats the point. Its nice to be naked with everyone in the showers after swimming, on film its different because its viewed by other people. When you have your patriarchy glasses on, obviously the director just wants to see all the women naked, what fun.

    My question is who is protecting the actresses from the porny director and would this be a movie that the actresses woulld like their daughters to see in the future.

    And how can an actress get a job in Hollywood without being naked. And without having a tiny frame that 95% of women cannot acheive (actresses small, models tall, real women not represented)
    Just my 2 cents worth

  150. Victoria Rattlehead

    Do men EVER get tired of telling us how to be, what to think, who to like, etc.? For fuck’s sake, just leave us alone!

    Also, I won’t believe his sign until I see a picture of him sucking face with an overweight, no-make-up-wearing, hairy-pitted WoC like myself (but not ACTUALLY me, because that would just be gross).

  151. ElizaN

    A woman in KY is facing jail time for publicly naming the men who assaulted her, because part of the assaulters’ plea deal was that their identities be kept hidden. Seems to me like they gave that up when they distributed a video of themselves attacking her.


  152. L

    @Kate– Really? Sarah Polley directed that film (which is actually called Take This Waltz) and her stated intent of that scene was to show women’s bodies in a non-sexualized, realistic manner. Yeah, you can’t control how porn-addled people in this society are going to view that scene, but as far as on-screen nudity goes it’s pretty women-positive. Michelle Williams is the only one that was really tiny in that scene too. Williams is a great actress but her success is likely linked to her willingness to do nudity in a lot of her movies.

  153. Kate

    L – Your right its a female director. It is called Take that Waltz. And Canadian, not Hollywood. I don’t know, any female nudity on screen is not woman positive because straight away the “nudie bits” are cut out and put on the internet for all to see in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc where they are not so woman-positive. I was just annoyed because I can’t watch TV and now I can’t go to the movies either. Also no dick was shown. ElizaN seems like that is a big story – one to watch.

  154. SaraLyn

    Oh boy ElizaN, regarding your link I hate to say that I am not surprised. The greatest injustice to women is to NOT release the names of sexual assult perpetrators to the rest of us. Many study surveys of rapists and men who rape prostitutes (i.e. “John’s”) show that men will at least ease up on raping us if we actually punish them for committing a crime AND publish their names to the public for their own shaming. However, I doubt this would deter most of them anyway. More protecting the dudes who rape instead of punishing them patriarchial BS. Well, good for her for standing up to the P. Lard knows that not many women get as far as an article articulating the shame of rape along with the shame of everyone knowing YOU (as the “dirty little slut who deserved it”) but not knowing your rapist(s).

    I cannot help but come here everytime I see something horrible like this if only to merely read the comments section. So few people see the world that is actually in front of us and are brave enough to say something about it. Just last week I read an article about prostitutes in Cambodia being subjected to gang rapes “more frequently.” I am not sure how they came to this conclusion since I doubt it is new and I doubt it had anything to do with trying to stop men from committing crimes (since one of the researchers actually said that she didn’t feel that the men were to blame!!!). Supposedly they were trying to say that the influence of western XXX films was to blame. As if this crime were somehow new and they actually cared to do something about it (but they still cannot blame the actual criminal since-Yah know-they are DUDES!). They went so far as to interview the criminal men who admitted to the crime and those interviews were nothing short of disturbing. It just blows my mind…

  155. eb

    Penn State has just been hammered with the most expansive fines and restrictions on its football program since the rule of William the Conqueror.

    People will still ponder with astonished incredulity how the men in charge could allow the rapes to continue. Many of these same people would view the Tosh rape jokes and video as just jokes. All in fun. Boys being boys. And then, after Joe P’s statue has been removed and he has been stripped of 100+ victories, they will probably claim he has been raped. But, they’ll still ponder with slack jaw and wide-eye wonder how the men in charge could allow the rape to continue.

    They probably won’t wonder if the punishment would have been as severe if the victims were girls. It wouldn’t have been. Because girls don’t get raped, they get sexually assaulted.

  156. Katy

    Another week, another sign that time continues her work unabated. I believe I’m starting to experience hot flashes; the biggest clue is not so much the feeling of heat (which in the SF Bay Area has been active and erratic lately) but the odd all-over sweating, which is rather atypical. Rather than talk to the male OB-GYN that Kaiser foisted upon me (I’m not too long for this job and this healthcare scam provider anyway), and now that every elder woman in the family is dead, who else to turn to but the Blametariat? So, sisters and ladies, I humbly request any and all advice you wish to heap upon me (and thus, by extension, anyone else lurking/reading/sharing/spying) about how best to deal and mitigate with this, because it’s a huge fucking pain in my ass to deal with. I thank you.

  157. stacey

    Katy, have I got a thread for you!

    h ttp://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2011/07/11/the-intersectionality-of-menopause-and-male-enhancement/

  158. TwissB

    @eb “They probably won’t wonder if the punishment would have been as severe if the victims were girls. It wouldn’t have been. Because girls don’t get raped, they get sexually assaulted.”

    And if they are naive enough to report it, the response is to speculate on what they did to get themselves sexually assaulted, to joke about how much they enjoyed it, to label them as s**ts, and to ridicule any effort to get authorities to act against the rapists as whining. Girls are expected to – often literally – suck it up.
    References: “Fraternity Gang Rape” by Peggy Reeves Sanday; “Perfectly Prep” by Sarah Chase.

    The dominance of football at Penn seems to have fostered an oppressively masculinist culture there. A teacher was jeered at campus-wide when she objected to having to lecture in front of a huge reproduction of Goya’s “Naked Maja.” First Amendment baloney was liberally flung. USA Today joined the attack with a big above-the fold scathing commentary by then ACLU president Nadine Strossen, (author of ” Defending Pornography: Free Speech, Sex, and the Fight for Women’s Rights “) complete with an artful montage featuring photos of Catharine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin positioned to appear to be frowning at Goya’s portrait of his patron’s mistress.

    Without any official objection, a member of the Penn board of trustees financed an egregiously antifeminist student newspaper.

    In the Goya case, a male faculty member who thought the picture distracting would simply have told the custodian to take that thing down and put it in the dumpster. Done.

    It was fun to hear speculation on PBS evening news as to the likelihood that fewer students would apply for admission to Penn as a result of the NCAA penalty against the football program.

  159. Friend of Snakes

    Stacy, that thread’s a trip down memory lane. Bunch o’ women folk gettin all techy up in there. I notice I didn’t offer any pearls of wisdom, though.

    Katy, you’d think for something that most women age into, that there’d be a good cookie-cutter-type response. But I guess we each go at it in different enough ways that it’s hard to generalize (or at least, foolhardy to generalize).

    It wasn’t that long after wondering about the sudden-onset heat and film of perspiration that I asked an older friend the usual, “do you think this is the beginning of menopause?” and she just smiled and said, “could be.” And I stopped asking because it didn’t much matter at the time, yes or no, and, anyway, that train was going to be arriving SOME time. All I had to do was wait. And sure enough, I finally KNEW. It was precisely what I thought it was.

    On the one hand I was one of those women for whom, on the surface, things went fairly easily. I got used to the hot flashes being my daily companion and didn’t seem to suffer any of the debilitating symptoms that some other women describe. For me it all ended kind of like my 3-pack-a-day cigarette habit: hard at first and then one day I was an ex-smoker and later still, I realized I’d become a non-smoker. It is a rare day indeed now that I think about smoking OR gonads.It’s hard to believe that something I was so tied to – my periods (and they were dog-awful painful ones for most of my life) – could become something I just didn’t think about any more. And now, I don’t even think about the fact that all the women around me must be having periods. It’s as if they happened to someone else a long time ago and ceased to exist in my world at all. Not sure how strange that sounds, but it’s just my reality now.

    Oh yeah, I said “on the surface.” Thinking back, I’m reasonably convinced that episodes of panic attacks that began with the onset of menopause were linked, but I ignored the association at the time. And oh yeah, sleep disturbances, I just blame that on getting older. And, and, and? I think I just didn’t want menopause to be a big deal, and mostly, it wasn’t. I was lucky maybe.

    By the way, I had a friend who said her hot flashes went on for over a decade. Shit! Recently, 14 years after my last period, I’ve been noticing strange episodes that feel just like hot flashes but without the perspiration. SHIT! I better end now. Yours in solidarity.

  160. Lovepug

    Katy – if there’s any way you can transfer to Kaiser in Redwood City, Dr. Manjita Bhaumik is wonderful.

  161. Katy

    stacey, thank you for the link! Through the fog of war that is my brain lately, I do recall the discussion though clearly not enough to have actually searched for it myself. Thanks for the assist.

    Lovepug, *many* thanks for the recommendation. I will see what I can do. And hey! I can bike from my workplace to the RC office.

  162. Spyke

    Well I’m new here and I feel like I’ve just emerged from the bottom of a deep polluted pool and finally got a gasp of clean air. Woohoo. Thank you thank you. One thing though, in the list of Ancient Texts, I was surprised not to see Mary Daly’s Gynecology.

  163. BlanchDevereaux

    LOL, re: the quote. Because it’s always women’s fault when men devolve into misogynists. Sigh.

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